Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 12 hours ago, elaine567 said: I hope it goes well. I knew years can’t be reversed by one conversation but we did have a conversation in the right direction I mean me trying to be less avoidant.. I think it will take a long time I’m committing to shift from light, sweet and humorous to more serious. At first he reacted like he thinks I’m mad about something as I wasn’t my bubbly self then we had heart to heart about marriages how our families did things and what we like this was only first try not direct still he didn’t pull back and seemed engaged.. Praying I can keep consistent and shift the conversation, it’s me not him, I’m so set in my childish happy place it’s like breaking a habit 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) How long have you been involved with him as a lover? Were you friends or co-workers prior to that? Is it usual and customary in your culture for a man to take care of his wife's/lovers parents? Do you live near each other? Are you in a polygamous society or are affairs viewed casually without judgement? Is there a reason to pretend you're married? Does he ever claim he'll marry you or does he simply claim he's "acting like a husband"? Are you able to contact him at any time or does he refuse contact when he's home with his wife? Does he support you or your parents financially? Is this what he means by "acts like a husband"? Did you know he was married when your affair began or did he reveal that later? Have you ever been invited to his home? Whose idea was the IVF? Has he also tried this with his wife in the past? Edited October 31, 2021 by Wiseman2 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 50 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Same way he never said “I’m married” or used the word wife So you picked up this habit of using distancing language from him, it seems. Neither of you really deals head-on with the reality of the situation. You both dissociate yourself just enough to avoid taking full accountability for your roles in this, from the way you present this here. (Because frankly, using "AP" makes you no more anonymous than "I" when we don't know who you are but know you are in fact the Other Woman) In any event, if this has been going on for years and he still hasn't been motivated to leave his wife for you, then you need to read the big, bold writing on the wall. It might not look pretty and probably isn't what you want to read, but it's been apparently been right in front of you for a long time. You can continue to avoid really seeing it, but that doesn't change anything - other than wasting even more time on a dead-end. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 hours ago, TamBuktu said: . The last time I was there his sister was very cryptic saying “we like her, you know that” in front of me.. My family considers him partner 100%. Some know, some don’t about his situation.. His sister just landed a shot across your bows, a warning, I guess she doesn't really approve. Another conflict avoidant maybe... keeping the peace with her brother, but had a bit of a "dig" at you, Passive aggressive.. I would not bank on her support if I were you. She also said WE like her, so I guess that meant "the family". She was telling you they are on the side of the wife. Your family on the other hand will want to see you happy, so families can be "accepting" whether they actually agree with your choice or not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: His sister just landed a shot across your bows, a warning, I guess she doesn't really approve. Another conflict avoidant maybe... keeping the peace with her brother, but had a bit of a "dig" at you, Passive aggressive.. I would not bank on her support if I were you. She also said WE like her, so I guess that meant "the family". She was telling you they are on the side of the wife. Your family on the other hand will want to see you happy, so families can be "accepting" whether they actually agree with your choice or not. She was definitely referring to me not wife, that's why I found it extremely strange she didn't say "we like YOU" and was talking to him like i am not there ("we" was for the people in the room).. i am getting the impression they did have a collision with her regarding something and that's why she's never invited around them anymore My family makes sense Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 5 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said: So you picked up this habit of using distancing language from him, it seems. Neither of you really deals head-on with the reality of the situation. You both dissociate yourself just enough to avoid taking full accountability for your roles in this, from the way you present this here. (Because frankly, using "AP" makes you no more anonymous than "I" when we don't know who you are but know you are in fact the Other Woman) In any event, if this has been going on for years and he still hasn't been motivated to leave his wife for you, then you need to read the big, bold writing on the wall. It might not look pretty and probably isn't what you want to read, but it's been apparently been right in front of you for a long time. You can continue to avoid really seeing it, but that doesn't change anything - other than wasting even more time on a dead-end. Now that you said it... yeah I might have picked it from him. his style of talking is so specific and dissociated we generally refer to all people with nicknames, say certain words like love in other languages, the littlest thing but yeah, they add up. I don't think I'd have gotten involved with him if the word "affair" or "their marriage" was ever mentioned.. Not disagreeing but all his timelines has been very very very slow when it comes to romantic involvements - we have discussed in detail his past ones and how it evolved, but again the theme - in a very cryptic way Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, TamBuktu said: Now that you said it... yeah I might have picked it from him. his style of talking is so specific and dissociated we generally refer to all people with nicknames, say certain words like love in other languages, the littlest thing but yeah, they add up. I don't think I'd have gotten involved with him if the word "affair" or "their marriage" was ever mentioned.. This doesn’t sound like an adult relationship at all. I’m not judging, everyone has their kink/quirks, but I don’t see this progressing to a mature open relationship and parenthood 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I don't think I'd have gotten involved with him if the word "affair" or "their marriage" was ever mentioned.. And this is what indicates that a lot of this is fantasy-based. The adult of eqivalent of sticking our fingers in our and ears and LA-LA-LA-ing over any voice of reason (usually from our parents as kids) It's almost like playing make-believe because the truth is too much for us to handle so we reframe the narrative and dress it up in different wording to make it more appealing than it really is. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: How long have you been involved with him as a lover? Were you friends or co-workers prior to that? Is it usual and customary in your culture for a man to take care of his wife's/lovers parents? Do you live near each other? Are you in a polygamous society or are affairs viewed casually without judgement? Is there a reason to pretend you're married? Does he ever claim he'll marry you or does he simply claim he's "acting like a husband"? Are you able to contact him at any time or does he refuse contact when he's home with his wife? Does he support you or your parents financially? Is this what he means by "acts like a husband"? Did you know he was married when your affair began or did he reveal that later? Have you ever been invited to his home? Whose idea was the IVF? Has he also tried this with his wife in the past? Let me see how to respond without overciting - i'll just go in order hope it's clear As lovers over 3 years.. as friends about 6 years total In my culture it;s not in his- it is. We live close, our parents don't We are not. We pretend as a joke as people start calling us that when we are buying furniture etc, and then becomes just a conversational piece for the day He never explicitly claimed anything but implied. Act like a husband meaning if i need help with anything he is there, he's my confidant, i'm sexually exclusive with him, he does all major repairs in my home, he's on my end of life legal documents etc We have absolutely no financial involvement though. his belief is accounts should stay separate after marriage anyway and that's fine with me. He doesn't support financially parents either he does help with things like home repairs etc but money are very much separate from what he tells me I knew because he was still wearing a ring but i assumed they are separated initially because of many conversations with him and other people in front of me (when he thought i'm not listening) where he never mentiones wife. The times someone would ask directly about her e.g. what is her-name doing, he'll be super vague like "same old same old" and swithc topic i have picked up things from his apartment but haven't been in.. i;'ve been in his other units same house but mostly to watch him repair something tenants broke etc Totally my idea the doctor wasnt willing to continue if i don't fertilize some and i wanted to cryopreserve for a good probability of 2+ kids. I don't think he tried with her because she was well over 50 when they married and had adult kids and grandkids.. they might have tried while dating but sounds improbable considering her situation Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: She was definitely referring to me not wife, that's why I found it extremely strange she didn't say "we like YOU" and was talking to him like i am not there Yes, we like you would have been less confusing, it does sound like she are speaking about someone not in the room... and ignoring you. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: This doesn’t sound like an adult relationship at all. I’m not judging, everyone has their kink/quirks, but I don’t see this progressing to a mature open relationship and parenthood I think it's just a style/quirks we are both very mature when it comes to responsibilities... but yeah i'm worried too he keeps beating around the bush just about anything, involving me or not Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, elaine567 said: Yes, we like you would have been less confusing, it does sound like she are speaking about someone not in the room... and ignoring you. Yes almost sounded like they spoke with him about me before i entered the room, and then pretended for a hot second i'm not there which is a bit disrespectful... Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 14 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: And this is what indicates that a lot of this is fantasy-based. The adult of eqivalent of sticking our fingers in our and ears and LA-LA-LA-ing over any voice of reason (usually from our parents as kids) It's almost like playing make-believe because the truth is too much for us to handle so we reframe the narrative and dress it up in different wording to make it more appealing than it really is. How would you approach that: if i completely shift the tone out of the blue i feel it's too much and unnatural? But i am ready to shift the tone somewhat, just struggling with how to begin Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 You have to realise that becoming a real woman with thoughts and feelings and a desire to actually know where you strand in this relationship may not go down well with him. No doubt he likes the bubbly, jokey, happy, and "dumb" version of you. He will eat up years of your young life if you let him. BUT you now know you cannot spend the next few years, being evening entertainment for a guy who still basically lives with his wife. Meanwhile you are ageing, getting more frustrated and no doubt bitter, and your dream of a marriage and a family will fade into the ether. You have to make a stand, even it means he ditches you in favour of another happy doll. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: As lovers over 3 years.. as friends about 6 years total. Act like a husband meaning if i need help with anything he is there, he's my confidant, i'm sexually exclusive with him, he does all major repairs in my home, he's on my end of life legal documents etc Have you spoken to trusted friends and family about this or gotten legal advice? Are you in his will or a beneficiary on his accounts? Of course not. His wife is. You're not "exclusive". He goes home to sleep with his wife every night. It seems like he's scamming you with this pretend husband stuff. A handyman could do what he does. Speak to an attorney about some of these unwise decisions and whatever scam he's running. Is he your landlord? Why are you hanging out watching him do tenant repairs? Edited October 31, 2021 by Wiseman2 5 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Since you say polygamy (legal or otherwise) is accepted in his culture, it’s likely his sister approves of you as a side piece. Doesn’t mean she thinks of you as wife material. That would explain her mild disrespect. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: we are both very mature when it comes to responsibilities... Sure, but you obviously have never had a direct conversation with each other. That’s a problem if you want to have a serious adult relationship with each other, especially considering the barriers here. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 If you had spoken up early in the relationship about wanting to be more than a mistress, he would have at least known where you stood. After 3 years of thinking you are basically satisfied, I imagine he’ll feel blindsided. And you know you could have used sperm from an anonymous donor, right? Were you hoping the existence of his embryos would make him more likely to make things legitimate? Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 The fact the embryos are the result of you seeking to preserve fertility and he being the convenient and available father option, gives them very little significance in this relationship. If any. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: If you had spoken up early in the relationship about wanting to be more than a mistress, he would have at least known where you stood. After 3 years of thinking you are basically satisfied, I imagine he’ll feel blindsided. And you know you could have used sperm from an anonymous donor, right? Were you hoping the existence of his embryos would make him more likely to make things legitimate? No not at all. I couldn't get myself to share genetic material with anonymous person. I might change my opinion on that but this was best decision at the time. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, elaine567 said: The fact the embryos are the result of you seeking to preserve fertility and he being the convenient and available father option, gives them very little significance in this relationship. If any. Really I just mentioned it to explain why bio-clock is a non issue. I couldn't wait for health reason, or say health scare and me digging too much into what it might mean. I probably underestimated what he thinks about this all because i was securing my own chance of genetic children and not thinking much outside this realm. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, TamBuktu said: No not at all. I couldn't get myself to share genetic material with anonymous person. I might change my opinion on that but this was best decision at the time. Were the embryos intended as an attempt at a trap? If you can assess your motives honestly 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Just now, TamBuktu said: Really I just mentioned it to explain why bio-clock is a non issue. I couldn't wait for health reason, or say health scare and me digging too much into what it might mean. I probably underestimated what he thinks about this all because i was securing my own chance of genetic children and not thinking much outside this realm. Underestimated or overestimated? Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: If you had spoken up early in the relationship about wanting to be more than a mistress, he would have at least known where you stood. After 3 years of thinking you are basically satisfied, I imagine he’ll feel blindsided. And you know you could have used sperm from an anonymous donor, right? Were you hoping the existence of his embryos would make him more likely to make things legitimate? Yes he might feel blindsided and i'm terribly worried for that. I wasn't lying to him. Initially I was just going with the flow too. The past two years my desires changed, after we got so close. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, RebeccaR said: Were the embryos intended as an attempt at a trap? If you can assess your motives honestly Absolutely not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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