Girl I'm dating has suddenly gone cold and distant

[viking37]

GFA: thanks for the sympathy and yeah pushing isn't the right word but I get what you mean about confidently saying what you want rather than keeping your cards close to your chest. But I guess she was doing the same and in general we were plain bad at communicating with each other over serious/intimate stuff and our connection was mostly based on shared sense of humour, common interests, and being on the same intellectual wavelength. 

Alpaca: sorry you had a similiar situation. But helps me to see why my insensitivity has been a dealbreaker and there is not going to be a second chance. 

Wiseman: she asked me about the art exhibition she talked about going to the other day saying her friend offered to take her free of charge as he has a membership of the museum and if I am not that much interested she can go with him and we can still do the Russian restaurant no matter what. I think it is the male Turkish friend from work who took her to an art exhibition last Thursday and she has mentioned a few times. I told her it made more sense for her to go with her friend if he is a member already and there are plenty of other nice activities we can do together. She said let me get back to my friend then and then asked me about my day and the conversation moved in a different direction. I don't think it was intended as a date anyway and I do not want to be one of interchangeable male friends who take her to lunch and art exhibitions and pay for everything which seems to be the way her culture works. 

Just trying to find the right ways to break things off. 

 

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, viking37 said:

 I do not want to be one of interchangeable male friends who take her to lunch and art exhibitions and pay for everything which seems to be the way her culture works. 

So no real concrete dates set up? This is her thing. It's unfair to paint an entire culture with her odd, selfish behaviors.

Yes you're one of many male orbiters. But that's ok because you're not exclusive and therefore can also date whoever you want.

[Gemini-AquariusRising]

I think she’s waiting to see if you can step up to her needs, us women are very emotional creatures, so do something thoughtful and maybe spontaneous, grab her some flowers and head over to her place,do not expect anything knock her door “I was thinking about what you said, that you were feeling down and I just wanted you to know I’m here for you, things can be hard and it’s a lot to process but I’m here for you and I wanted you to know that”, this is like opening the door for her - it’s showing her that you care - maybe she’s had some experiences in the past that make her shy away from progressing with people now? 
if you genuinely care for this woman, show her, she might be stepping back because she is developing an attachment to you she finds scary. I think she’s testing you to see if she should truly invest, this may be why she’s pushing you away. Nothing is scarier to a woman then falling for someone who won’t catch her and let’s her hit the floor instead of scooping her up and keeping her safe.

[viking37]

Came up with another theory.
 

I think she’s always seen me primarily as a friend which she needed because she was new to the city and bored and lonely.  She slept with me because she felt close to me and comfortable with me and safe with me and knew i wanted it.

 But because she sees me mostly as a friend she often gave me the cheek at the beginning and end of a date and only seemed to enjoy kissing me when she had a few drinks. Also she kept insisting on linking arms when we walked which is formal and not really that romantic.
 

And of course if she considered me as a close friend it would explain why she was so upset that she didn’t feel I was there for her. And of course she uses the term all the time and as a lawyer she is precise in her language.

 Would also explain why she texts me all the time but doesn’t really flirt at all. And of course there’s never been much affection because that’s romantic and she doesn’t think of me in a romantic way and the brief interlude during the staycation could have simply been because of an afterglow after our first time together but as that faded she went back to thinking of me as a friend. Perhaps I had a narrow window in which I could have changed the way she thought of me but obviously I didn’t take advantage and we then had some misunderstanding and opportunity was lost. 
 

But of course now she’s not sure she can trust me as a close friend so she’s just chatting to me and looking to hang out but that will be as far as it will go. 
 

And of course friendship doesn’t work for me so makes it easier to move on. And I was always playing a losing hand trying to turn what she saw as a friendship into something more. 

 

[Wiseman2]

27 minutes ago, viking37 said:

And I was always playing a losing hand trying to turn what she saw as a friendship into something more. 

Any concrete plans coming up? Or did she find other guys to accompany her around town?

[Saracena]

41 minutes ago, viking37 said:

Came up with another theory.
 

I think she’s always seen me primarily as a friend which she needed because she was new to the city and bored and lonely.  She slept with me because she felt close to me and comfortable with me and safe with me and knew i wanted it.

 But because she sees me mostly as a friend she often gave me the cheek at the beginning and end of a date and only seemed to enjoy kissing me when she had a few drinks. Also she kept insisting on linking arms when we walked which is formal and not really that romantic.
 

And of course if she considered me as a close friend it would explain why she was so upset that she didn’t feel I was there for her. And of course she uses the term all the time and as a lawyer she is precise in her language.

 Would also explain why she texts me all the time but doesn’t really flirt at all. And of course there’s never been much affection because that’s romantic and she doesn’t think of me in a romantic way and the brief interlude during the staycation could have simply been because of an afterglow after our first time together but as that faded she went back to thinking of me as a friend. Perhaps I had a narrow window in which I could have changed the way she thought of me but obviously I didn’t take advantage and we then had some misunderstanding and opportunity was lost. 
 

But of course now she’s not sure she can trust me as a close friend so she’s just chatting to me and looking to hang out but that will be as far as it will go. 
 

And of course friendship doesn’t work for me so makes it easier to move on. And I was always playing a losing hand trying to turn what she saw as a friendship into something more. 

 

Whoa there! OP,  just like some of your other posts you are way overthinking all this. Essentially, interacting with the thoughts in your own head NOT anything concrete you've gleaned from her.  Basically you know nothing about how she feels, her thoughts etc. Instead, you're second-guessing all of this. You really need to hear this from her, instead of making what are essentially, assumptions. 

Re her calling you a 'friend' for instance, what else do you expect to be called in the circumstances?   

[Alpacalia]

On 11/16/2021 at 12:35 AM, viking37 said:

Alpaca: sorry you had a similiar situation. But helps me to see why my insensitivity has been a dealbreaker and there is not going to be a second chance. 

Thank you. 

So I assume this mean you've since decided you're not going to give her a second chance?

[viking37]

She hasn't done anything wrong and I can forgive the hard time she gave me because obviously she was under extreme emotional stress and I was saying all the wrong things. 

But I know the way she thinks and in her mind my efforts since hearing her terrible news to provide support and show concern mean nothing to her because she will see them as being reactive and motivated by self interest rather than coming from within. So she is not going to give me a second chance although she may well for a while keep around as a male friend to hang out with which does not really appeal.

We are meeting for dinner tonight. I will see what kind of mood she is in and if she gives me any kind of indications where I stand and that will hopefully help me make my decision about what to do. On the one hand I would find it very difficult to walk away but on the other hand being friendszoned and slowly relegated in importance from someone she chats to every day and is wanting to see all the time to someone she texts occasionally and asks to hang out with occasionally when she has nothing better to do won't be fun either. So I dunno really. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, viking37 said:

We are meeting for dinner tonight. I will see what kind of mood she is in and if she gives me any kind of indications where I stand and that will hopefully help me make my decision about what to do.  someone she texts occasionally and asks to hang out with occasionally when she has nothing better to do won't be fun either. 

That's ok. The good news is there's no decision to make because it will just continue along as is.

She pretty much did only see you/have sex now and then when she wasn't busy with friends. That's what FWB do, no?

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, viking37 said:

We are meeting for dinner tonight. I will see what kind of mood she is in and if she gives me any kind of indications where I stand and that will hopefully help me make my decision about what to do. On the one hand I would find it very difficult to walk away but on the other hand being friendszoned and slowly relegated in importance from someone she chats to every day and is wanting to see all the time to someone she texts occasionally and asks to hang out with occasionally when she has nothing better to do won't be fun either. So I dunno really. 

I would walk away.

But, maybe it's different for guys.

I guess at some point things will either fizzle out on their own or come to a head at some point.

 

[viking37]

"I guess at some point things will either fizzle out on their own or come to a head at some point"

That is pretty much what I am thinking. If things fizzle out I will sense it and get frustrated and find it easier to move on. If things come to a head there will be some form of resolution. But for now she is texting me regularly and making future plans the way she always used to. And obviously she hasn't followed through on her belief we should go our separate ways. 

But no idea if we will resume sleeping together and I think without sex it probably will fizzle out as that is the main feature that distinguishes us from being simply friends as she does not seem to have romantic feelings for me and as mentioned doesn't show me much affection and without sex I am just in the same bracket as her other male friends who do things for her and keep her occasional company. 

But hopefully she has some understanding of my situation and will indicate in some way whether she is looking to go back to the way things were between us or if she is no longer interested in any kind of physical relationship. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by viking37

[Saracena]

3 hours ago, viking37 said:

We are meeting for dinner tonight. I will see what kind of mood she is in and if she gives me any kind of indications where I stand and that will hopefully help me make my decision about what to do

Yes, this is your best bet. I realise the circumstances before were not ideal (texts) but I seem to remember she mentioned intimacy etc etc. and it would have been worth exploring further what she meant by this. In addition, you would most likely have gotten an honest answer then, given she was pretty annoyed at the time!

You mentioned your not being there for her, but given she apologised there is also a chance, when she calmed down, she may have realised she expected too much from you  for example,! Obviously, none of us know! I do think, however you do need to get some clarity as to where you stand! All this uncertainty isn't doing you any good!

Only she know what's in her head, and I could be wrong, but my impression is she intends just picking up where she left off! 

At any rate, good luck tonight! 

[viking37]

Thanks Saracena.

I am also a bit puzzled by her comment. She said she expected to see intimacy. But in my mind intimacy is something shared between two people and at the time she was pushing me away instead of letting me know what was wrong and even after I did ask she after blocking and unblocking got back to me the following evening to ask me why it was so difficult to ask what was wrong and then after she didn't like my attempts to explain (and I doubt anything would have satisfied her given how annoyed she was with me at the time) when I asked again to tell me what was wrong she said she didn't feel close to tell me. But I guess revisiting those conversations probably isn't the smart thing to do and she probably considers in her mind that we have made up and have moved on. 

And yeah I can't imagine her telling me in words where I stand but her behaviour will probably give me at least some indications and she is fairly assertive so will make it pretty obvious if she does want to get physical again and will make it easy for me to make future plans with her if that is what she still wants. 

 

[Saracena]

9 minutes ago, viking37 said:

But I guess revisiting those conversations probably isn't the smart thing to do and she probably considers in her mind that we have made up and have moved on. 

Absolutely. And she probably feels the same. However, if the opportunity arose etc....

10 minutes ago, viking37 said:

And yeah I can't imagine her telling me in words where I stand but her behaviour will probably give me at least some indications and she is fairly assertive so will make it pretty obvious if she does want to get physical again and will make it easy for me to make future plans with her if that is what she still wants. 

 

Fair enough. Play it the way you feel is best.

Forgot to mention earlier, I do think the British dating culture v what she is used to is contributing to the situation as well. Confusing for her. Heck, I'm younger than she is and never dated in this way and I'm sure I would find it somewhat alien, in a way! . Incidentally, how long has she been in UK?

Having said all that, I would foremost concentrate on having a good evening though!

[viking37]

She's been in the UK around 5 months but I'm the first guy she has properly dated. Oh about 5 years ago she did a masters but I think she fairly quickly got into a relationship with a German guy. Basically I think she is a relationship girl. And maybe trying this whole dating thing because she has only been divorced a year and maybe not ready for anything serious. But maybe struggling with it and getting herself confused. 

But yeah she's got enough heavy stuff to deal with I'm just going to focus on trying to show her a nice time while also making sure to ask how she is doing. 

 

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, viking37 said:

"I guess at some point things will either fizzle out on their own or come to a head at some point"

That is pretty much what I am thinking. If things fizzle out I will sense it and get frustrated and find it easier to move on. If things come to a head there will be some form of resolution. But for now she is texting me regularly and making future plans the way she always used to. And obviously she hasn't followed through on her belief we should go our separate ways. 

But no idea if we will resume sleeping together and I think without sex it probably will fizzle out as that is the main feature that distinguishes us from being simply friends as she does not seem to have romantic feelings for me and as mentioned doesn't show me much affection and without sex I am just in the same bracket as her other male friends who do things for her and keep her occasional company. 

But hopefully she has some understanding of my situation and will indicate in some way whether she is looking to go back to the way things were between us or if she is no longer interested in any kind of physical relationship. 

 

 

Maybe, all things considered, the fact that things started out so hot and heavy, with her being sick and her ex passing away, her being divorced only a year, all of this happening within a two-month time period was a bit stressful. In fact, I had my own minor "freak out" with the incident I stated previously, but perhaps things between you will now level out a little.

 

[viking37]

Well I really wasn't expecting much but it went better than I thought. She was much more animated and was laughing loudly at my jokes and was very chatty and good company and the time flew by with no real awkardness at all. She remembered it was my mother's birthday coming up and asked if I'd chosen a present. I asked if she had any ideas and she took me to a few shops and then came up with the idea of getting a plant. 

Oh she also brought me a product sample from her work which she had promised to bring me ages ago. OK a chocolate bar but I guess it was sweet of her to think of me and when I thanked her she said she'd bring more samples for me to try in future. 

We had dinner and walked a bit. I paid of course which has been our revised arrangement since a month or so ago she made a fuss about me never offering to pay. But I guess again a sign she seems happy to pick off where we left off. 

I asked how she was and she said she feels a lot better and everyone around her was being so supportive. 

She also thanked me for being supportive lately and said she'd been discussing me with a Turkish friend who was married to an English guy who she said that when she was feeling down her husband just offered to make her a cup of tea so she kinda understood my response a bit better and also realized I couldn't have possibly guessed what she was going through. 

She eventually got tired so I took her home and on the train she once again rested her head on my shoulder/chest and dozed a little. But again at her door gave me her cheek when she could see I was going for a kiss on the lips. She has done this on a number of occasions even before our falling out and it bothers me a little. But I guess a lot of things do not make sense about her to me and in general the evening seemed quite positive. 

Afterwards she texted me saying thank you for dropping her off and don't think she doesn't notice I drop her home after every date even when I am tired and she really appreciates it and it is very gentlemanly of me. She said she knew where we could get the plant and said there was a place near her work she would go and have a look during her lunch break tmrw. 

So I dunno really. Things seem back to normal. Not perfect by any means. But I seem to be forgiven and we are on good terms again so I am tempted just to see how things go. 

 

 

[Alpacalia]

Sounds like a nice evening.

I know you said she lives with room mates but maybe at some point down the road you two can just do something nice and romantic indoors that doesn't involve going out to dinner or anything too extravagant.

The plant idea for your Mom is a nice idea, hopefully she'll pick out a good one!

[viking37]

Well she was texting me tonight saying she was bored at home and said I should come over and bring some booze. We watched some Netflix and she cosied up to me and we had sex. She was more affectionate then last time and after sex instead of kicking me out watched the rest of the series resting her head on my chest. 

We were discussing the show which mentioned sexual identity I said i like girls and she said “No you like E(her name)” which seemed encouraging. And she is asking when I’m going to take her to the cat cafe which we discussed w month ago and when I asked when she was free she said she might take a day off next week and we could go then. 
 

And I mentioned it was another full moon and she said other people talk about month anniversaries we talk about full moons.

maybe I’m reading too much into what she is saying but seems quite encouraging 

 

 

[Alpacalia]

I'm pleased to hear that (that you two are back to being physically intimate), but don't you find it off-putting about the way she approached it (i.e. inviting you over because she's bored and to bring alcohol)?

The moon thing is cute though.

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Alpaca

[viking37]

I agree that the way she set it up makes it sound just like a hook up and a FWB type situation i.e. come and hang at mine and bring booze and we will Netflix and chill etc. But part of me think she downplays things because casual sex isn't part of her culture and isn't something she does. But I think she finds the whole situation easier to deal with if she pretends we are just friends hanging out and having sex and ignoring any feelings she may or may not have. And maybe she feels a little vulnerable after her outburst last week and after opening up to me about her tragedy (and from what I gather she has told very few people in her life only family and very closest friends). But I dunno really we had a nice time watching Netflix and making fun of the show we were watching and having sex and she's been texting me nonstop today detailing her every movement asking what I am up to and so on. 

[Wiseman2]

28 minutes ago, viking37 said:

I agree that the way she set it up makes it sound just like a hook up and a FWB type situation i.e. come and hang at mine and bring booze and we will Netflix and chill etc. But part of me think she downplays things because casual sex isn't part of her culture and isn't something she does

It is what she does. Impulsive moody all over the place. That IS her. Nothing to do with culture.

If you got that bias out of the way you would see a lot more clearly.

You're casual fwb and that's ok.

[Saracena]

20 minutes ago, viking37 said:

But part of me think she downplays things because casual sex isn't part of her culture and isn't something she does. Bu

I actually agree with this. As I said before this dating culture is all new to her and she doesn't know how to 'pitch' it. which would include her feelings etc etc Of course, given you're only dating two months, she is still exploring things with you, herself etc I, for one also believe she actaully does like you, probably more than she even cares to admit! Incidentally, I have wondered how she would react if you actually called her your 'girlfriend'. Also part of her must wonder why you haven't done so already!

Actually, from now on I would concentrate less on 'stressing' about labels, what her motivation is etc and focus more on your actual relationship with her-connecting more with her as an person etc, deeping the bond etc.   After all, this is the only thing that really counts. Also by doing this will make you less attached to the outcome and give you and the RL a chance to breathe. 

Obviously though you need to be alert to any red flags along the way but I would concentrate on the above more!

[viking37]

Yeah I think letting the label thing slide and just letting things develop naturally now we are over that bump in the road seems sensible.

She went to a house warming party of one of her work friends tonight and was texting me quite a bit and was talking to them about the show we'd been watching on Netflix the previous day referencing our conversation about the show as well as telling them one of my mother's politically incorrect views which had made her laugh. 

She said she was feeling tired and I said that she could go home and her colleague would understand and she said she was weak and was always the last to leave a party because she was extroverted. I said she will be like that again soon but for now she is emotionally drained and still recovering from her traumatic news and needed to listen to her body and it is a shame I am not there to drag her home. She said she was thinking of asking me but remembered I didn't seen keen the last time she tried to introduce me to her friends (the halloween event a month ago right after our staycation when she last minute wanted to bring her colleague and husband along and I said I'd rather it was just us) so she didn't bother asking. I said I was silly back then and of course I want to meet her friends. She asked what made me change my mind and I said that she talks a lot about her friends and they seem nice and since then we've spent a lot of time together and it feels natural for me to start meeting her friends whereas back then things still felt very new and I wanted to focus on us getting to know her better.

I know she has mentioned me to quite a few of her friends (even if she likes to use the euphemism "my british friend") but obviously I understand now she was afraid to ask me to meet any of them because she remembered the Halloween incident which Id completely forgotten and probably saw that as another indication I wasnt serious about her so hopefully I have cleared that misunderstanding and meeting some of her friends or going to a party with her will be another step forward. 

Also Saracena given intimacy isnt my strong point (and isnt hers either ) how do you suggest we deepen the bond? We spend a lot of time together and we are telling each other a lot more about our lives sharing what we are getting up to talking about our friends and family and childhood memories  and so on. Obv she has opened up about her loss of her ex and while I was comforting I shared about the grief I felt when I lost my father and the difficulty my mum had coping with that. I have hinted quite a few times that I like her but she hasn't reciprocated (although I think you ar e right and she does) And we have created a lot of memories together and have so many shared jokes and references that we can mention and instantly understand which for me I only really have with only my closest friends 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by viking37

[Alpacalia]

8 hours ago, viking37 said:

I agree that the way she set it up makes it sound just like a hook up and a FWB type situation i.e. come and hang at mine and bring booze and we will Netflix and chill etc. But part of me think she downplays things because casual sex isn't part of her culture and isn't something she does. But I think she finds the whole situation easier to deal with if she pretends we are just friends hanging out and having sex and ignoring any feelings she may or may not have. And maybe she feels a little vulnerable after her outburst last week and after opening up to me about her tragedy (and from what I gather she has told very few people in her life only family and very closest friends). But I dunno really we had a nice time watching Netflix and making fun of the show we were watching and having sex and she's been texting me nonstop today detailing her every movement asking what I am up to and so on. 

Perhaps she was feeling vulnerable after everything that had happened, and her remark was meant in jest.

Whatever the situation may be, it appears that you two are having fun with one other, are affectionate toward each other, and have all these cute little things between the two of you.

Did she ever check out the plant for your mother's birthday?