Liking two people at the same time

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, glows said:

I'd like to think that someone in tune with a person well-loved and cared for would try their best to communicate, at least where there are trust issues or difficulties with trusting. In other words, your partner or the person you were dating awhile ago would have made that effort to try to communicate his limits and work around that. Was that ever the case or were you in the dark about certain things or often a lot of the time?

Yes, I agree.

In response to your question, no, he never did. I was pretty much in the dark about it or if it was it came across more as accusatory. But it was just a few comments here and there but it was enough to give me pause and say, I'm not sure this is going to work out after all.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Alpaca

[glows]

47 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Yes, I agree.

In response to your question, no, he never did. I was pretty much in the dark about it or if it was it came across more as accusatory. But it was just a few comments here and there but it was enough to give me pause and say, I'm not sure this is going to work out after all.

That's a tough one. I'm only inferring on that kind of dynamic and it doesn't sound like either of you were compatible then. There may be chemistry then and now but it's hard to say whether this would work out another time around. 

When I look back at some of my experiences, I do wonder why I didn't trust my gut feelings back then. I had a desire to prove out or see whether things could prove differently, different from my instincts. My instincts have never been wrong. I was just not listening then. Trust your instincts too.

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, glows said:

That's a tough one. I'm only inferring on that kind of dynamic and it doesn't sound like either of you were compatible then. There may be chemistry then and now but it's hard to say whether this would work out another time around. 

When I look back at some of my experiences, I do wonder why I didn't trust my gut feelings back then. I had a desire to prove out or see whether things could prove differently, different from my instincts. My instincts have never been wrong. I was just not listening then. Trust your instincts too.

Glows, thank you for sharing.

Yes, I share your sentiments.

I believe I initially trusted my instincts with the first one since I broke things up. He tried reaching out a few months after that but eventually I deleted him, as hard as it was. And, there were some other reasons as well.

But that was several years ago, and I've never been able to get over it. I cried myself to sleep many nights about it.

Then there's the other man.

As a result, my predicament.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Alpaca

[Lotsgoingon]

The fact that you feel so paralyzed suggests to me that you are dating in a way that is not safe. Sounds to me like you are opening up your heart too fully, too soon and that you are not exercising your power as a full agent in a relationship. You can date and incrementally open up. You can date and open up fully only when the other person has shown over time, in repeated instances, to be worthy of your trust. A woman I dated had been repeatedly burned over time. As I listened to her stories, I realized, that she was way too trusting way too soon. As soon as a relationship would start, she would trust the other person. I suggested that she'd be better off allowing the other to earn her trust, to show they are worthy of trust. 

There are many ways to protect yourself and to move forward incrementally. You can date and hold off on sex. You can kiss, touch, make out ... and hold off on sex until you feel safe. You can date and put in places other guardrails to protect yourself. You can introduce your partner to the smartest, wisest friends you know and ask them for their take on things. That requires courage because they might say things you don't want to hear.  You can date while going to therapy with a really smart therapist who pushes you to be really honest. 

Basically your challenge is to be OK with ending things or slowing things or pausing things at any point--for any reason. Many of us get into trouble when we commit to making the relationship work before we have done the due diligence to ensure that that the relationship can work. Save the 100 percent commitment to work things out until AFTER things have gone really well for a long time. And we have to block out the "happy ending" fantasies that seem to drown us early on if things seem right for a while. Those initial feelings of ecstasy and joy and hope--great feelings ... but they are not indicators that you are in a relationship that will last or should last. 

Also, we have to lose the shame or embarrassment for stopping things six months in, nine months in or a year or two in.  Breaking up is not a failure, though it often feels like one. Breaking up can easily be a smart step towards preventing disaster.  Breaking up can just be a recognition of reality, and we don't need to be embarrassed in sharing that with folks. 

You have tons of power when dating. So you can pick someone and move forward and see how things are, knowing you can stop at any point. That will give you more freedom and safety. 

[Fox Sake]

You don’t need a set of rules for love. I don’t think there is any right way or any wrong way. Everything is just an experience.  sometimes they push us past our comfort zones , and that’s actually healthy and it’s okay to do so. 
 

What I do think is occasionally you’ll meet someone who will compliment everything in you the same as you do in them. Someone who suddenly vaporises everyone else. Someone who makes you feel full. Those are special people and special moments that are either going to be a blessing of a beautiful relationship  or another lesson  

Maybe you were right and that neither of these guys are for you! Who really knows , just enjoy the experience and be aware of what you’re feeling. There’s no shame In it and you will most definitely learn something about yourself. 

[Alpacalia]

32 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

The fact that you feel so paralyzed suggests to me that you are dating in a way that is not safe. Sounds to me like you are opening up your heart too fully, too soon and that you are not exercising your power as a full agent in a relationship. You can date and incrementally open up. You can date and open up fully only when the other person has shown over time, in repeated instances, to be worthy of your trust. A woman I dated had been repeatedly burned over time. As I listened to her stories, I realized, that she was way too trusting way too soon. As soon as a relationship would start, she would trust the other person. I suggested that she'd be better off allowing the other to earn her trust, to show they are worthy of trust. 

Interesting perspective. Perhaps there is a grain of truth to it. Initially when I started dating him I wasn't even sure what I was looking for. He was super attentive and generous and slowly over time I began developing feelings towards him. But maybe those were red flags that I overlooked initially. I did think at times he was a bit full on with calling me all the time and texting in between dates but he also seemed a bit guarded. 

43 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Basically your challenge is to be OK with ending things or slowing things or pausing things at any point--for any reason. Many of us get into trouble when we commit to making the relationship work before we have done the due diligence to ensure that that the relationship can work. Save the 100 percent commitment to work things out until AFTER things have gone really well for a long time. And we have to block out the "happy ending" fantasies that seem to drown us early on if things seem right for a while. Those initial feelings of ecstasy and joy and hope--great feelings ... but they are not indicators that you are in a relationship that will last or should last. 

I was okay with ending things when I did.

I just didn't realize it would hurt as much as it did afterwards.

45 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Also, we have to lose the shame or embarrassment for stopping things six months in, nine months in or a year or two in.  Breaking up is not a failure, though it often feels like one. Breaking up can easily be a smart step towards preventing disaster.  Breaking up can just be a recognition of reality, and we don't need to be embarrassed in sharing that with folks. 

 

That's a great way to look at it. Maybe I need to focus on that a bit more.

32 minutes ago, Fox Sake said:

You don’t need a set of rules for love. I don’t think there is any right way or any wrong way. Everything is just an experience.  sometimes they push us past our comfort zones , and that’s actually healthy and it’s okay to do so. 
 

What I do think is occasionally you’ll meet someone who will compliment everything in you the same as you do in them. Someone who suddenly vaporises everyone else. Someone who makes you feel full. Those are special people and special moments that are either going to be a blessing of a beautiful relationship  or another lesson  

Maybe you were right and that neither of these guys are for you! Who really knows , just enjoy the experience and be aware of what you’re feeling. There’s no shame In it and you will most definitely learn something about yourself. 

Well, I absolutely think that some rules are necessary.

And perhaps my initial thoughts that neither of these guys are a fit for me after all is more accurate than I thought. 🙂

[Lotsgoingon]

Actually that makes more sense to me--that neither of these guys really feel right for you--even though on paper, I imagine, and superficially they seem great. And they might very well be great, but great doesn't mean they are a great fit for us. There are all kinds of absolutely wonderful people in the world that we should not be dating. 

 

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

You can introduce your partner to the smartest, wisest friends you know and ask them for their take on things. That requires courage because they might say things you don't want to hear.

It's funny you mention that because I did introduce him to some of my closest friends and one of my friends guessed his occupation right off the bat. He was so shocked by that. 

9 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Actually that makes more sense to me--that neither of these guys really feel right for you--even though on paper, I imagine, and superficially they seem great. And they might very well be great, but great doesn't mean they are a great fit for us. There are all kinds of absolutely wonderful people in the world that we should not be dating. 

This is very true. 

[Girl Fade Away]

Alpaca, there are some people we meet in life whether it's a brief interaction, short term dating or long term relationship who will always hold a special place.  And I think that is OK.  It doesn't mean we were meant to be together, it only means they made a forever imprint and we shall always cherish that memory. 

I do believe our hearts are open and big enough to liking/loving more than one person simultaneously.  Your old flame you can 'love' from a distance.  The new flame, love in the present.  Both can be equally valuable in different ways. 

Do not fight it, or become sad and confused by it.  Accept it. Embrace it. One never knows what life has in store, that's what so beautiful about it. 

The doors (and our hearts)  should always remain open for any and all possibilities❣️

PS:  I do believe people can change.  I KNOW I certainly have over the years.  Matured and grown and learned valuable lessons from mistakes I have made. 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Girl Fade Away

[Alpacalia]

5 minutes ago, Girl Fade Away said:

Alpaca, there are some people we meet in life whether it's a brief interaction, short term dating or long term relationship who will always hold a special place.  And I think that is OK.  It doesn't mean we were meant to be together, it only means they made a forever imprint and we shall always cherish that memory. 

I do believe our hearts are open and big enough to liking/loving more than one person simultaneously.  Your old flame you can 'love' from a distance.  The new flame, love in the present.  Both can be equally valuable in different ways. 

Do not fight it, or become sad and confused by it.  Accept it. Embrace it. One never knows what life has in store, that's what so beautiful about it. 

The doors (and our hearts)  should always remain open for any and all possibilities❣️

 

Thank you. That's very thoughtful of you to say.

And, I will try to keep that in mind.

[Alpacalia]

On 11/26/2021 at 4:08 PM, Girl Fade Away said:

I do believe our hearts are open and big enough to liking/loving more than one person simultaneously.  Your old flame you can 'love' from a distance.  The new flame, love in the present.  Both can be equally valuable in different ways. 

So I wanted to return to this.

Because I'm torn between two opposing forces.

How does one go about being fully present with someone while they still feel a deep connection to another person?

[Uruktopi]

4 hours ago, Alpaca said:

How does one go about being fully present with someone while they still feel a deep connection to another person?

How?  Saying the magical word "NO".

 

[Alpacalia]

4 hours ago, Uruktopi said:

How?  Saying the magical word "NO".

 

What exactly do you mean by "no?"

Without referring to the clear meaning of the word.

[Uruktopi]

47 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

What exactly do you mean by "no?"

Without referring to the clear meaning of the word.

Sorry, my fault on not providing a meaningfull frame.

I´ll try to avoid to post an essay about, I appologize in advance if it seems one.

Our minds, an evolutive trait, are capable (and need) to build "what if" scenarios, to think and even "feel" them. 

The external world, where things happen, is a bit less ambiguous by itself.

But we, humans, are used to take our "working" representations as if they were almost real also out there.

Some call it "my reality" which besides the poetics is a concept near to nonsense.

But, when we have to choose where it counts, it becomes near to binary.

So for some things like mating, when they get serious and in a monogamous frame, for each YES there are one or more implied necessary NO´s.

It even is less conditional to what we have in our concious minds (though better if so) but to what we factualy choose by doing.

A path, a person, the choosen one.

So NO is a magic word, "the left hand" of each YES.

Not a few of our feeling struggles have root in a kind of "common sense" philosophic dualism, when we perceive as constraints what is just what there are, choices. 

Of course, all this is my personal choosed take on this and only and not necessarily suited for a wider scope.

Best and best wishes to you, my friend.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Uruktopi

[Alpacalia]

4 minutes ago, Uruktopi said:

Sorry, my fault on not providing a meaningfull frame.

I´ll try to avoid to post an essay about, I appologize in advance if it seems one.

Our minds, an evolutive trait, are capable (and need) to build "what if" scenarios, to think and even "feel" them. 

The external world, where things happen, is a bit less ambiguous by itself.

But we, humans, are used to take our "working" representations as if they were almost real also out there.

Some call it "my reality" which besides the poetics is a concept near to nonsense.

But, when we have to choose where it counts, it becomes near to binary.

So for some things like mating, when they get serious and in a monogamous frame, for each YES there are one or more implied necessary NO´s.

It even is less conditional to what we have in our concious minds (though better if so) but to what we factualy choose by doing.

A path, a person, the choosen one.

So yes, NO is a magic word, "the left hand" of each YES.

Not a few of our feeling struggles have root in a kind of "common sense" philosophic dualism, when we perceive as constraints what is just what there are, choices. 

Of course, all this is my personal choosed take on this and only and not necessarily suited for a wider scope.

Best and best wishes to you, my friend.

Thanks, friend.

I'm not sure what to do with all this but I'll let it marinate for a bit.

😅

[Alpacalia]

On 11/28/2021 at 2:36 AM, Uruktopi said:

How?  Saying the magical word "NO".

 

So, I think this is helping me in terms of which direction I want to go in the future (as well as all the other posts in this thread that I have read).

I think someone like Guy #2 may be a bit too surface level for my taste.

Thanks for the help with your comments Uruktopi!

[mark clemson]

On 11/27/2021 at 9:38 PM, Alpaca said:

How does one go about being fully present with someone while they still feel a deep connection to another person?

That's the problem with orbiting (and sometimes with "lost loves") - sometimes those lingering feelings/wishes/what-ifs etc interfere with fully emotionally bonding with a new person.

I think that the main solution is to simply commit (to the new person), but I suspect there is usually some lingering trace of "interference" until you're really fully over the past person, which simply takes time.

Edited November 29, 2021 by mark clemson

[glows]

6 hours ago, Alpaca said:

I think someone like Guy #2 may be a bit too surface level for my taste.

He may be helping you move forward in a way, realizing what you need more of in a relationship. 

I'm a firm believer of keeping old doors shut. After what you've mentioned in this thread, I don't think either of them are what you're looking for. They are two separate people helping in your search for #3. 

[Girl Fade Away]

On 11/27/2021 at 9:38 PM, Alpaca said:

How does one go about being fully present with someone while they still feel a deep connection to another person?

Alpaca, my feeling is if you still feel a "deep connection" with a former partner, then you cannot be fully present with your current and therefore they are probably not the one for you. 

What I meant in my previous post was similar to what a person feels when a partner passes away.  That connection will always remain on some level, but your heart remains open for new love as well.  But even when a partner does NOT technically die, when a relationship ends, it's still a death of the relationship.  Or situationship or whatever it was you experienced together, in your case dating for a few months.   So it's basically the same thing.

A "deep" connection should be felt with a partner who is present.  Not a former partner.  Hope that explains better.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Girl Fade Away

[Uruktopi]

36 minutes ago, Girl Fade Away said:

...similar to what a person feels when a partner passes away.  That connection will always remain on some level, but your heart remains open for new love as well.  But even when a partner does NOT technically die, when a relationship ends, it's still a death of the relationship.  Or situationship or whatever it was you experienced together, in your case dating for a few months.   So it's basically the same thing.

I can understand your words but I can´t still relate to them.

Avoiding a TJ but anyhow....

I´ve lost the woman I loved some years ago. Cancer won.

It was a mature love, a love of two mature ones for both, and lasted for some glorious years.

Since then, I can´t say I´m open to something new. Honestly I tried, but failled.

And what amazes me and my ignorance is that is not about HER.

But seems to be about the kind of woman and man relationship we both created.

Hard to reach again, even harder to imagine something better.

I do not have at all the same feeling about my previously ended LTR.

Enf of the TJ and sorry if it´s not relevant.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Uruktopi

[Alpacalia]

46 minutes ago, Uruktopi said:

Enf of the TJ and sorry if it´s not relevant.

No worries Uroktopi.

Everyone's comments (including your last post ) has been super helpful.

Thank you for sharing that.

If it gets a bit off topic I'll make sure to chime in.

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Alpaca

[Alpacalia]

22 hours ago, mark clemson said:

That's the problem with orbiting (and sometimes with "lost loves") - sometimes those lingering feelings/wishes/what-ifs etc interfere with fully emotionally bonding with a new person.

I think that the main solution is to simply commit (to the new person), but I suspect there is usually some lingering trace of "interference" until you're really fully over the past person, which simply takes time.

Thanks.

Just to clarify there was no orbiting, actually, there was no contact for several years. Complete separateness..

But to your point, yes, those feelings are an interference and I wouldn't feel right about fully committing to another person when it's still a presence. 

22 hours ago, glows said:

He may be helping you move forward in a way, realizing what you need more of in a relationship. 

I'm a firm believer of keeping old doors shut. After what you've mentioned in this thread, I don't think either of them are what you're looking for. They are two separate people helping in your search for #3. 

Perhaps you're correct.

Both have quite different characteristics that I admire and identify with. Of course, I want to respect their feelings and choices as well. Time has a way of resolving these things. They may eventually discover that I am not what they are searching for as well.

18 hours ago, Girl Fade Away said:

Alpaca, my feeling is if you still feel a "deep connection" with a former partner, then you cannot be fully present with your current and therefore they are probably not the one for you. 

What I meant in my previous post was similar to what a person feels when a partner passes away.  That connection will always remain on some level, but your heart remains open for new love as well.  But even when a partner does NOT technically die, when a relationship ends, it's still a death of the relationship.  Or situationship or whatever it was you experienced together, in your case dating for a few months.   So it's basically the same thing.

A "deep" connection should be felt with a partner who is present.  Not a former partner.  Hope that explains better.

Yes, I agree.

And, the partner passing away is a good analogy.

It's funny, last night I had a dream about the movie "Titanic", I let someone go, just couldn't make out which one.

I think it just means my poor brain just needs a rest.

[glows]

14 hours ago, Alpaca said:

I think it just means my poor brain just needs a rest.

What does this mean? Not date either one? Dating or seeing both of them is bound to cause questions (within) especially if one of them carries as much history.

[Alpacalia]

17 hours ago, glows said:

What does this mean? Not date either one? Dating or seeing both of them is bound to cause questions (within) especially if one of them carries as much history.

I just meant that I am thinking about it too much.

I think the only way for me to move forward is probably neither.

 

[Bluesandy]

It happened to me ..... But they were not on the same level... One was more intellectual sharing and the other was more sexual.... I had a hard time choosing but finally went disastrous since I choose the one sexual... And it went nowhere.... Actually someone told me it is because none of them was my complete choice, so I should go for a third one, decision which was hard to take, and I finally choose the one sexual... But now I am with a third one and it is ok.. I have understand no one can fulfill all your requirement so you will always have to loose something in order to gain something.. nobody is perfect... that's life...