I [31 M] am struggling to come to terms not only with my break up with my ex girlfriend [28 F] of a year but also with the trauma she experienced and passed along to me

[DrScientist812]

My ex broke up with me back in June. We met online during the pandemic and went on a month long road trip together (our first date). We have lots of things in common: same industry, love of travel, camping, being outdoors, cooking, humor, etc. There are many things I love about her. We got into fights starting in the fall. We were both drinking a lot and that exacerbated things, and I got stressed out about work, got angry and anxious about things, and allowed myself to put it on her. Likewise she was under a lot of pressure from organizing her mom selling her house, shooting and working on short films for school, breaking her arm and not getting the support from her family that she needed, etc.
 

In June, she broke up with me but insisted on staying friends. We still kept in contact with each other. I was the one she called to pick her up and keep her company when she got out of detox for alcoholism, something she’s still struggling with. A few weeks ago, I asked her if she wanted to get back together. She said no, saying it was bad timing, she doesn’t see us getting back together, and she thinks it will take years for me to change myself. She reached out the next day and repeated that she wanted us to stay in each other’s lives and respected my wishes that she give me some space while I started a new job and figured things out.
 

I tried to make the most of things: I started working out, I’ve got sober (5 weeks today), I’m doing great at work, I’m reading more and taking an interest in new hobbies, and I became determined to win her back even though she said she’s not interested. After 2 weeks of no contact, she reached out to me with an inside joke she saw in a TV show and asked if I’d been watching. I sent her a short funny reply and that was it as far as contact went.

The last week was particularly difficult for me. I had what you could call a moment of clarity and realized how unhealthy all of my behavior was and how it would hurt both of us if I allowed it to continue. So I decided to put an end to it. I reached out to her and insisted that she take her stuff back (she never seemed in a hurry to pick it up) and had a mutual friend give it to her last night. On Friday, I wrote her a letter in which I apologized for the various ways in which I hurt her or let her down, outlined the ways in which I planned to fix them in the future, and essentially told her I couldn’t be friends with her. I wished her the best, thanked her for the memories I made with her, and said if she ever changed her mind and wanted to get back together she should let me know.

She’ll probably get that letter in the mail today or tomorrow. Maybe she’ll respond, maybe she won’t. Maybe there was a chance we could have fixed things and I ruined it, maybe she’ll respect me more for refusing to settle for friendship, maybe it won’t matter at all and this will really be it. Part of me is glad it’s over, and part of me is nervous for what might come next.

[Wiseman2]

18 minutes ago, DrScientist812 said:

A few weeks ago, I asked her if she wanted to get back together. She said no, saying it was bad timing, she doesn’t see us getting back together, and she thinks it will take years for me to change myself.

Focus on your sobriety.  She needs to focus on her detox/rehab and sobriety as well.  Unfortunately those "get your ex back" scam sites recommend letter-writing outlining how great your doing, pretending indifference, etc.

It never works. It leaves you just like this...asking yourself: did she get it? did she read it? what did she think of it? will she respond?, etc. She can however keep it as evidence of stalking or harassment and can and will show it to her trusted friends, family and counselors.

 Step way back from this. She explicitly stated she does not see you reconciling so it would be best to delete and block her and all her people from all your social media and messaging apps rather than accept the friendzone .

 Get a fresh start for your life including sobriety and leaving the past in the past.

[DrScientist812]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Focus on your sobriety.  She needs to focus on her detox/rehab and sobriety as well.  Unfortunately those "get your ex back" scam sites recommend letter-writing outlining how great your doing, pretending indifference, etc.

It never works. It leaves you just like this...asking yourself: did she get it? did she read it? what did she think of it? will she respond?, etc. She can however keep it as evidence of stalking or harassment and can and will show it to her trusted friends, family and counselors.

 Step way back from this. She explicitly stated she does not see you reconciling so it would be best to delete and block her and all her people from all your social media and messaging apps rather than accept the friendzone .

 Get a fresh start for your life including sobriety and leaving the past in the past.

I didn’t do it for her, I did it for me. I doubt she thinks I’m stalking or harassing her, but I’m not going to be reaching out from this point going forward. Any future contact is going to have to come from her. In the meantime I’m going to move on and focus on myself

[ShyViolet]

You absolutely did the right thing, 100%.  It's never healthy to drag out a breakup, to stay "friends" when there are still messy feelings, and hold out false hope of getting back together when the other person has made it clear they don't see that happening.  You're just torturing yourself and preventing yourself from actually getting over this and moving on with your life.  And when you're working on your sobriety, this drama is the absolute last thing you need, and it will put your sobriety in jeopardy.  Yes, breakups are hard, no one ever said they are easy, but you really do need to make a clean break.

[lonelyplanetmoon]

Good for you for taking action.  You are learning and growing!  I think what you did was the right thing to do.  Sometimes you just have to have that one last exhale to set you free.

 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

Consider writing that letter your closure, OP. 

It's not right of her to expect to be buddies with you or look for attention from you when you she knows she doesn't want a relationship with you anymore. I can nearly guarantee she will fade out completely when she meets the next guy she wants to date, anyway. This "friendship" with you was to make herself feel better in the meantime. 

Time to let this one go. 

 

[DrScientist812]

She broke up with me in June. She told me she wanted to be friends because she still valued me as a person. She never seemed in a hurry to grab it from me, even going so far as to give me more stuff to hold onto for her because “she could pick it up at anytime.” After she refused my attempt to get back with her, I asked for some space, which she agreed to.

I’ve recently decided that I won’t wait for her to change her mind so I reached out and asked her how she wanted to handle the returns. She was evasive, not answering for 24 hours (by far the longest she’s ever taken to respond to a text even post breakup), finally suggesting I give it to a mutual friend. I reminded her that she still has a book of mine and if she could return it that would be great. She said of course she hasn’t forgotten.

Flash forward to now: her stuff has been returned to her (which she thanked me for via text) but our friend didn’t know what I was talking about if I asked if he had a book for me. Is she playing some kind of game here?

Edited November 17, 2021 by DrScientist812
Title not complete

[Wiseman2]

Find a mutually convenient time for you to go collect your belongings. It's your responsibility to go get them.

Don't expect exes to be FedEx and deliver stuff to your door.

Get the items or drop it. Try not to keep dragging this out in the hopes of getting back together. Cut your ties.

[DrScientist812]

10 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Find a mutually convenient time for you to go collect your belongings. It's your responsibility to go get them.

Don't expect exes to be FedEx and deliver stuff to your door.

Get the items or drop it. Try not to keep dragging this out in the hopes of getting back together. Cut your ties.

I’m not reaching out again for it. She can have it if she really wants

[glows]

She clearly doesn't value you as a person if she's not valuing your requests (for your book). If there is any game, it takes two so don't play. If the book is easily replaced, do let it go. I can empathize with you as I have been in a similar position requesting an item I thought someone had after a break up. It was also a book and a treasure, a geological reference book that had been with me on many trips. If she won't return this or even try treat this as a testament to her character. 

[Acacia98]

I've been in your situation too, @ OP. I let the much treasured book go. I got tired of the games/power play on the part of my ex. The result: peace of mind.

[DrScientist812]

28 minutes ago, glows said:

She clearly doesn't value you as a person if she's not valuing your requests (for your book). If there is any game, it takes two so don't play. If the book is easily replaced, do let it go. I can empathize with you as I have been in a similar position requesting an item I thought someone had after a break up. It was also a book and a treasure, a geological reference book that had been with me on many trips. If she won't return this or even try treat this as a testament to her character. 

I basically had to beg for her to take her stuff back. I don’t want her feeling like she’s got me on a string that she can pull and I’ll respond to. Maybe part of her really doesn’t want this to end but if so she’s gonna have to be the one to say it. I’ve done my part and I’m going to let her go

[stillafool]

17 minutes ago, DrScientist812 said:

I basically had to beg for her to take her stuff back.

You're too nice.  You should have set a final day and time for her to pick them up and after that they go to trash or donation.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, DrScientist812 said:

I’m not reaching out again for it. She can have it if she really wants

Ok, that's a solution if the item is replaceable or not all that important. Besides you don't have her stuff around as background clutter so you're free and clear.

She'll have to look at that book and think about you...so, maybe she's the fool in all this?.

[Carlon]

This thread is about not getting a book that you don't even care about that probably costs less than $10 on Amazon?

Just trying to understand.

[DrScientist812]

3 minutes ago, Carlon said:

This thread is about not getting a book that you don't even care about that probably costs less than $10 on Amazon?

Just trying to understand.

That is the situation, yes. She said she’s give it back but she hasn’t so no real monetary loss but I do wonder why she’s being difficult

[Carlon]

1 minute ago, DrScientist812 said:

 I do wonder why she’s being difficult

You need to get over her at which point you'll stop wondering why she does or doesn't do things.

 

 

[flitzanu]

i don't think it's a game, or trying to keep ties with you.  it's simply that she doesn't care enough to actually do it and it is the least of her worries

[DrScientist812]

We met during the pandemic. I was in Wyoming and she was in Colorado but we both live in NYC usually and matched with each other on hinge there. We hit it off immediately: we both work in the same industry, love traveling, camping, movies, and have a similar sense of humor. We bonded quickly through late night texts and eventually sexting, and had our first date on a month-long road trip through the west. It was great: the sex was great, we got along, and we loved each other.

 

Until it wasn’t. She had a LOT of trauma in her past. Her dad was an abusive man who raped her mom and treated her older brothers really badly (her parents divorced when she was 2 so she didn’t get the same experience as they did). Her mom has a lot of mental and emotional issues that she takes out on my ex and can be difficult, needy, and overly emotional. Both her brothers were drug addicts who got sent to rehab multiple times and haven’t really established a strong foothold for themselves in life. Both her brothers and her mom depend on her to be the bedrock of the family to an extent. She was out there for months early this year helping her mom deal with selling her childhood home whilst sabotaging it by trying to cancel meetings at the last minute, being indecisive, and being insensitive to my ex’s wants and needs (she broke her arm in January and her mom and brothers didn’t give her the emotional support that she needed).

 

That’s not even addressing my ex’s actual trauma. She was raped twice: first in college and again shortly before she met me. She is an alcoholic (a family trait: her uncle died of it a few years ago) and a former cocaine addict. A few years ago she was going through a dark time and indulged herself in a lot of unhealthy activities and with at least one ex who treated her very poorly (he was emotionally abusive, drug-addicted and he put her in a psych ward for a few days). She was trying to be sober when we first started talking but fell off the wagon due to stress at home and we started drinking together on the road trip, which escalated over the following months. I think she had some kind of abandonment issues stemming from her grandmother, who she was very close to, cutting off her mom and her brothers due to personal grievances (most of her mom’s side of the family no longer speaks to her mom). To top it off, she can be very melancholy and self-indulgent when she drinks, which leads to her listening to sad music, crying and getting angry or sad about the past.

 

The problems in our relationship, although they seem present from the beginning in hindsight, really started when we both went back to New York last autumn. We both started drinking a lot together, usually 3-4 bottles of wine a night. We started arguing. She would get a call from her parents that would upset her and she would take it out on me, or she would want to argue about my politics or opinions that she didn’t agree with, and in term my own anger and anxiety issues made me difficult to deal with at times and unwilling to engage with her on certain topics out of fear that she would get angry with me. At my cousins wedding she got blackout drunk and called me a pussy and that she couldn’t ever respect me. The next day when I told her what she had said she said she didn’t mean it at all and that wasn’t how she felt: one of many times such words were uttered. That’s not to say that we didn’t have great times: we did. It’s just that so much of the time I was afraid of saying or doing something that would hurt her. I didn’t want that. She was the last person in the world I wanted to hurt.

 

Things got worse around Christmas. We both went back home and didn’t see each other for months. We talked on the phone pretty much every day, texted, watched movies together, etc. But she was dealing with selling her mom’s house, shooting a short film for school, nursing a broken arm, etc, and I was dealing with trying to find a new apartment [ ]  and struggling to find a feasible job while doing an apprenticeship for a guy in the city. We met up shortly before we went to see my family in Hawaii. Right away things were great, but also off. She said it felt like we were friends instead of boyfriend and girlfriend. The distance couldn’t have helped, but I think at some point I started emotionally distancing myself from the relationship when everything became too much to deal with. We had a big fight one night, shouting at each other after drinking too much. I don’t remember what was said but it was along the lines of i don’t care, I don’t support her, etc. when I had been there supporting her the whole time. And of course the next morning we woke up, said we didn’t mean it, and went on.

 

By the time I went to see her in Colorado for her birthday things had deteriorated. We were snapping at each other the whole time, followed by making up, but her mom - who previously had really liked me - soured on me and they had a fight about me when I left. A few weeks later, I got the call: she wanted to take a break. My issues had become too much for her to deal with and she said I needed to go to therapy. We spent a few days in minimal contact while I tried to work something out, eventually finding a therapist, but by then it was too late: she broke up with me. She insisted on remaining friends, which I agreed to, because why wouldn’t I? I cared about her. I still do.

 

This summer was tough for both of us. We both drank heavily by ourselves, with her eventually going to detox for a week. I was the one she called when she got out. I picked her up, we went back to her apartment and I kept her company watching fun movies…and then she started drinking. I didn’t tell her, but even though I drank with her because I knew I couldn’t stop her, I went back to my apartment that night and cried myself to sleep over it. Shortly thereafter she asked me to ask a friend of mine to help her get Xanax so she wouldn’t want to drink as much: this I refused. I don’t think she was happy about it, but she accepted it. Contact wasn’t strained per se after that, but it wasn’t like it was immediately post breakup when we were both in regular contact like we were still in a relationship. Eventually she helped me get a job, and asked me to help her out on her thesis shoot. At the time I wasn’t very excited about this, or ANY of this. I was angry with her. Angry that she was still drinking, angry that she kept asking me to give so much to her, angry that we weren’t together anymore. I was still in love with her, even though I tried to tell myself and others I wasn’t. So after a while I asked her if she wanted to give us another shot. She told me it was bad timing, my problems aren’t problems that could be solved overnight, and she didn’t see me changing for decades. The next day she reached out to see if I was alright, reiterated that she still cares about me and wants me in her life, to which I said the same but I needed space. She agreed.

 

So for a month I struggled with all kinds of emotions. I eventually decided that even though I still love her, I need to let her go: I arranged the return of all the things she left at my apartment (even some things she left with me post breakup), although she seemed hesitant to take them back at first. After that, I wrote her a letter: I said sorry for the ways I messed up, I’m not gonna take decades to change but it will take time, I still care about you but I can’t be your friend, so I wish you the best, and if you ever change your mind let me know. I sent it off and after I didn’t hear anything for a while I stupidly called her to see if she got it. She said she had but she hadn’t read it. She didn’t sound very happy to hear from me. The next day she texted me that I had made her uncomfortable by calling and crossed boundaries, that she doesn’t owe it to me to read the letter in any time frame or respond (not untrue), and she wants zero communication between us from now on.

 

That was a week ago. Over the past week I’ve been dealing with a whole litany of emotions: grief, betrayal, anger, hate, you name it. I still care deeply about her, and I always will, but I also have to come to terms with the trauma - both hers and my own- she inflicted on me. I’m still coming back down to earth from it. Maybe she’ll cool off and she’ll reach back out, maybe she won’t and we’ll never speak again. All I know is I have to move on from her. But it’s hard to see where to start. Any ideas where to start, or any kind words/advice?

Edited November 30, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[DrScientist812]

I don’t know if this is appropriate material for the sub but I’ve been looking at a lot of BPD signs online and my ex really seems to fit the profile

She criticized my past relationships as if things that had happened to me were my fault

Became extremely sexual very early on: sexting, sending nudes, telling me about past sexual encounters, even when it made me uncomfortable

Lots of substance abuse. She was an alcoholic and drank heavily throughout our relationship despite claims she was trying to get sober. She went to detox shortly after we broke up, asked me to pick her up when she got out, and drank that night. She had had a cocaine addiction, talking about doing it heavily at work at 2 different jobs. There was one night when she said she did coke and then told me she had driven home drunk but had somehow left her phone in an alley somewhere downtown, which she retrieved. That story never really sat with me. She would also order Xanax over the internet to wean her off alcohol but would occasionally mix the two. She also pressed me to get her Xanax after detox but I refused

Lots of trauma. Said she had been raped twice (including a few months before we started talking) but the details never quite fit together and were often vague. Her parents weren't nice people and she claims her mom has the BPD gene, which may be true. Their relationship was often fraught with conflict, occasionally erupting into verbal and physical fights

Would tease me in ways that she said were jokes but made me feel uncomfortable. This escalated into criticisms of me like my teeth weren’t white enough or that I needed to go to therapy or that I give her anxiety, but when I would express concern about her drinking or drug use she would get mad

Could be very verbally and emotionally abusive when drinking. She would talk about her last trauma and her childhood or stuff going on with her parents and put it on me and get mad when I couldn’t give her what she wanted despite trying to support her. At my cousins wedding she got blackout drunk and called me names and said she couldn’t respect me. Coming back from the airport one time she got belligerently drunk and almost got detained by airport security and took it out on me when I tried to reel her in

Even when she was sober she could be cruel. One time I was a little late picking her up for a trip and she had left class early and she took her anger out on me

Lots of male friends. I never felt threatened by any of them (although she did tell me I would be “jealous” of one of them). I know she has female friends but I don’t think I ever met any of them

All of her exes were bad guys.  One guy in particular apparently put her in a psych ward for 72 hours but then she got released. I never really learned the details of this experience

Constantly felt like I was stepping on eggshells around her. She could get snappy about anything. One time we had a 3 hours fight because I didn’t like this one pizza place as much as she did. She said I was “so judgmental” and didn’t understand or care about her, but she would constantly nitpick my opinions or beliefs

Shared way too much about her way too quickly: her trauma, her substance abuse, her past relationships, problems with her family

Made me feel 10 feet tall. She was so loving and nurturing at the beginning, and she was so supportive of me and interested in the things I did and liked.

Drunkenly told me she loved me about 1 1/2 months in, then retracted it when I asked about it the next day. Shortly thereafter we both started saying it. Also started calling me her best friend very early on

Went on a month long road trip for our first date (during Covid)

Everything bad seemed to happen to her and nothing was rarely, if ever, her fault

Could be emotionally indulgent, watching sad movies and listening to depressing music when she was in a funk (and usually drinking)

Edited November 30, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[Wiseman2]

With all these substances in the mix it's impossible to diagnose anything specifically. Could she have several comorbid conditions? Yes. Including substance abuse, personality disorders, mood disorders, etc. But it's a fool's errand to pick just one and assume the craziness was all due to that.

[DrScientist812]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

With all these substances in the mix it's impossible to diagnose anything specifically. Could she have several comorbid conditions? Yes. Including substance abuse, personality disorders, mood disorders, etc. But it's a fool's errand to pick just one and assume the craziness was all due to that.

I suppose you’re right. It was just a lot to deal with and I’m still reeling from the experience. Looking back there were so many red flags but I guess I didn’t want to or was incapable of identifying them

[glows]

I'm sorry to hear about the recent break up in your previous thread. Try not to reach out to her anymore as she's mentioned she doesn't want to be contacted. Also resist and googling and diagnosing.

Tell yourself it's no longer any of your concern or business and give yourself time to shed that weight. Even though you may feel lonely due to the break up, you're also at an advantage - you no longer have to deal with her alcohol and drug use or someone who devalues you according to you. Although you have lost, you've gained much more. And you won't be able to make use of those gains if you keep doubling back, trying to convince yourself that you still want to be with her or trying to wrap your mind around what's medically or psychologically wrong with her. Just focus on you. 

[Alpacalia]

At this point, whether she has a personality problem or not is a moot matter.

Toxic, unhappy people exist to make others unhappy.

You realized you were in a toxic relationship, which is the first step toward bettering your mental health, and the second step was to leave that poisonous connection.

It takes time to heal.

Speaking with a therapist might also be a good idea to uncover what in you resonated with the poison so that you don't end up dating the same energy again.

[DrScientist812]

43 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

At this point, whether she has a personality problem or not is a moot matter.

Toxic, unhappy people exist to make others unhappy.

You realized you were in a toxic relationship, which is the first step toward bettering your mental health, and the second step was to leave that poisonous connection.

It takes time to heal.

Speaking with a therapist might also be a good idea to uncover what in you resonated with the poison so that you don't end up dating the same energy again.

I’m already going to a therapist: funnily enough, she’s the one who suggested I go. She went to therapy while we were dating and was always very interested in psychology and different aspects of it. I suspected a few times she would try to psychoanalyse me. The first time I called her out on it she backed off, and after that it turned into gaslighting