His ex and kids

[stillafool]

5 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

If I said this to him I know exactly what he would say:

” if I was revolving my life around them then why would I be here with you and not there with them, keeping them happy etc”

 

what do you think your response would be to this? Because if I have even said something similar in the past that is what he would come back with and I wouldn’t know then what to say. He says if he wanted to be there then he would be. 

Oh, does MM live with you?

[Milly May June]

But Karla, your DD has known him for some time. The timeline he gave his wife and kids does not add up. His kids will find out. They are old enough to form own opinions on character and will think all this is scetchy, that their dad had an affair and that you are a homewrecker. 

You gave an interesting clue that I don't remember by heart but you said his wife told him something like  'move away already and to leave them to it'. This to me indicates that he is indecusive about what to do with his marriage, that he strung his wife along asking for 'space to clear his head', gave her hope etc. When she finds out you have always been in the wings she will be pissed and rightfully so. Just be prepared. The drama in your life is just around the corner and it will get nasty. Ask yourself if you want your DD in the middle of this mess? How about his kids? 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Karla88 said:

in September he told his kids he had a girlfriend too.

We told my partner’s son that I existed in August. We met for the first time in October. I moved in three years later…

2 hours ago, Karla88 said:

Again, his kids are 15 and 11, they are not small kids.

If anything, I would think that teenagers will be more difficult, for a variety of reasons. 

2 hours ago, Karla88 said:

His kids are sick of driving up and down the motorway all the time and the news of the house even with me and my daughter in it would be positive news for them and they would love the fact that Dad is back close to then again.

I have no doubt that they will be delighted that Dad is living closer again. Whether they will be pleased to live with a woman they do not know, share their father’s attention, and how they will adjust to the changed family dynamic (ie. the introduction of a new “sibling”) remains to be seen…

My partner’s mother married a man who had children when they were all teens. He left home at 17, he has no relationship with these people anymore, and is always kind of bemused that his mother thought he should consider them “family.”

Edited December 6, 2021 by BaileyB

[Allupinnit]

It's probably best to allow him to disentangle himself from the family he already has before rushing him into a new blended family with you.

I think he is probably still going back and forth with her which is why he isn't ready to tell the kids.  

[Karla88]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

Oh, does MM live with you?

Yes, 5 or 6 nights a week he is here. When he has his kids he goes to his flat. All his stuff is here. He pays more than half of our rent and the rent for his flat 

[stillafool]

10 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

Yes, 5 or 6 nights a week he is here. When he has his kids he goes to his flat. All his stuff is here. He pays more than half of our rent and the rent for his flat 

Well why aren't you happy he spends most of his time with you instead of complaining?  I don't blame him what are you upset about?  That his wife doesn't know he's with you 5 or 6 nights a week?  And, if she did know how would that help your relationship?  He is still a MM just like you are still a MW.

Edited December 6, 2021 by stillafool

[Wiseman2]

16 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

Yes, 5 or 6 nights a week he is here.  All his stuff is here. He pays more than half of our rent and the rent for his flat 

Ok, it weird he has this flat arrangement to see his children.

However you claim he will move in full time and start blending families after the holidays? 

[IrinaM]

so he was able to extend the rental agreement on his flat, with almost no notice, and by a mere month? this is not typical.

[Karla88]

9 hours ago, IrinaM said:

so he was able to extend the rental agreement on his flat, with almost no notice, and by a mere month? this is not typical.

He hadn’t put in his notice, all he has to give any time is 1 months notice. It is typical here in the uk 

[anika99]

On 12/4/2021 at 11:40 AM, Karla88 said:

We were both married when we met and we left our marriages for eachother.

Umm, work mates and casual friends don't leave their marriages for each other, lol. You were in an affair. Perhaps you held off on having sex so you could pretend to yourself that it wasn't an affair. 

In any case I don't understand the problem. He spends the majority of his life with you and gives his kids just 1 night a week of his undivided attention. How exactly is that hurting you? It doesn't have any impact on your life, you are just trying to exert your will even though there is no benefit to anyone by rushing his kids to meet you and spend time with you. 

[stillafool]

23 hours ago, anika99 said:

It doesn't have any impact on your life, you are just trying to exert your will even though there is no benefit to anyone by rushing his kids to meet you and spend time with you. 

This is it right here.  Op is in a hurry to meet his kids to let his wife know that he is now with her because she is fearful he will reconcile and go back to her.

[Karla88]

52 minutes ago, stillafool said:

This is it right here.  Op is in a hurry to meet his kids to let his wife know that he is now with her because she is fearful he will reconcile and go back to her.

My point to asking this question on this forum was to see whether I am being too trustworthy, whether this behaviour is normal, or whether or not I am reading too much into things. Of course I want to get to a point where we can blend our family and I do believe he wants it too. I know that it’s not going to be an easy ride. I just wanted to hear that what he is expecting from me, the keeping me at arms length, the not telling his ex and kids how serious we are and that we’ve moved in together is OK to put off again until after Christmas (just because his ex has kicked off at him and even though he promised he would before Christmas) and I’m not being naive in any way by accepting this and not thinking there could be more to it etc. The majority of you seem to think he is right to do it this way and therefore you have answered my question. 

I think the fact he believes his kids would be quite happy to meet me, come and stay etc and he’s only delaying it because of her is what has upset me. 
 

if after Christmas he continues to delay this step then I will see it as him protecting her feelings over mine and of course then we are going to run into some serious problems. 
 

the fact he also said he would do it when we moved in together and now I have left my home and my town to be here with him and he has now said he can’t, just makes me feel a little uneasy, I guess quite vulnerable. 
 

I will report back after Christmas and update you on any news. 
 

Thanks for your answers 
 

 

[stillafool]

5 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

I think the fact he believes his kids would be quite happy to meet me, come and stay etc and he’s only delaying it because of her is what has upset me. 

TBH, I have a hard time believing this.  I think little kids would be more accepting than teenagers.  Most teenagers don't even want to be bothered with their own parents much less go out of their way to meet their parents affair partner who has helped them cheat on the other parent.  They'd rather spend time with their own friends.  This just sounds like something MM told you to keep you sweet.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by stillafool

[stillafool]

6 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

just wanted to hear that what he is expecting from me, the keeping me at arms length, the not telling his ex and kids how serious we are and that we’ve moved in together

How is his seeing you 5 nights a week keeping you at arm's length.  He sees you more than his own kids.  Admit it, it's not about his kids at all it's about letting his wife know that you are with him and he isn't keen to do that.  Probably he won't do it after Christmas either.  

[Karla88]

13 minutes ago, stillafool said:

How is his seeing you 5 nights a week keeping you at arm's length.  He sees you more than his own kids.  Admit it, it's not about his kids at all it's about letting his wife know that you are with him and he isn't keen to do that.  Probably he won't do it after Christmas either.  

She does know about me. They all know about me, I’ve met his Dad and his brother in law, I thought that perhaps he may just be toning down our relationship perhaps making out I’m just a fling. Just to reiterate that neither she or the kids or any of his family know of me as an affair partner, they think we met 6+ months after the separation. It’s there honesty thing for me. Now when I meet his kids, I have to try not to slip up about things like where I’ve spent Christmas, pictures in our home will have to be taken down, things we have done and places we have been, I’m worried I might slip up and cause drama I guess 

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

She does know about me. They all know about me,

Okay then what is your hurry?  Why are you pressuring this man for more and why are you in such a hurry to interact with their children?

[Karla88]

4 minutes ago, Deckert said:

Your boyfriend is in a tough position, trying to keep the peace with his wife- to whom he's still married, he's juggling visitation and custody, while trying not poking the bear which could result in a protracted high conflict contested divorce and custody battle which may result in him seeing less of his kids who he clearly cares very much about.

So what he's not technically living with you full time? He's there 5 nights out of the week he's paying more than half the rent, seems like he's doing the best he can in a bad situation.

Here you are pressuring the guy who is already overwhelmed,and telling him he's got a deadline to meet after which there will be "serious problems",  because you feel you're being slighted, he hasn't kept his part of the deal, and because it's "better for the kids". You've made your own share of mistakes- mainly establishing a joint residence with a guy who is still married. Even though he's supposedly over the emotional aspects of his marriage, divorce is an extremely stressful unpredictable situation and causes exactly these sorts of problems when new relationships and living arrangements are rushed, which they have been.

It's rather troubling that you are/were prepartedt to have your daughter lie on  your behalf and drag her into your problems. 

 I'm thinking you are the unreasonable and insensitive one here and you need to chill.

It’s not me that has said these deadlines, it’s him that has said them. It’s him that has said he will do something, not me forcing him into a corner, but of course, when somebody tells you they will do something then go back on it, it’s frustrating and sometimes it’s hard to see the reasoning. If he believed the kids would be OK and that we would be OK but she’s the one who’s going to start manipulating the situation or be upset about things (nearly 2 years after separation) then it does make you wonder whether he has my feelings prioritising hers. I certainly would not be doing that if it my husband was threatening to be unreasonable. I didn’t ask my daughter to lie and when I brought this up with him recently he said he isn’t asking her to, he would just like to ask her to refrain from saying some things but only for a short while. I told him I didn’t agree with this and if she does say something like “remover when we went to Alton towers last year that was fun” then there is absolutely no way I’m going to be say she has done something wrong. I’ve told her to be herself when the time comes and that’s it. 

[Eeejay]

Quote

I think the fact he believes his kids would be quite happy to meet me, come and stay etc and he’s only delaying it because of her is what has upset me. 

This is why it helps to write things out sometimes or to get opinions from folks on a forum like this. This statement is honest and it's getting down to the reality of why this has upset you so much.

The thing is, you've made a lot of big changes in order to make this relationship with MM work. He, on the other hand, is dragging his feet and giving you excuses (albeit good, valid ones) as to why he won't follow through. I believe you said in your first post that from the beginning, you were 'all in' and he wasn't. What exactly does that mean - did you have to apply a lot of pressure in order to get him to bust up his marriage? Did you resort to threats or coercion (ie, be with me now, or I'm telling your wife everything)?

I think your view on this is too simplistic. He's likely not hesitating just because his wife has 'kicked off', as you say. He told you it was complicated - that it's about his wife and her feelings, his kids and their feelings, and (whether you want to believe it or not), his own feelings, too. These are people with a weighty history, not chess pieces that need to be moved around in order to win a game (and full disclosure, I say this as someone whose parents divorced when I was a teen and whose father did NOT handle the situation well at all). And with what you've said about deliberately moving closer to his wife, the fact that you want him to tell her NOW and got angry when he said it's not a good time to do it - I think you need to dig deep and explore whether or not you really think that the scenario you want is best for everyone (ie, his and your kids), or whether you really just want to cement your 'win' over his wife once and for all. And I honestly say that gently to you, not to be judgmental or accusatory. I just think that you've convinced yourself that if it weren't for that pesky wife in the mix with her dang feelings, this would all be one big episode of The Brady Bunch and everyone would already be gathered around the Christmas ham singing "Sunshine Days". That's just not how real life works, and I think you need to really prepare for a rough ride or you'll risk getting hurt here (more than you already have).

[Karla88]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

Okay then what is your hurry?  Why are you pressuring this man for more and why are you in such a hurry to interact with their children?

I am not saying the way I feel is right. But you can’t help the way you feel. 
 

I want him to be honest, I am sick of hiding, being in the shadows, not being able to be a full part of his life like he is mine, that’s all. 

[Karla88]

6 minutes ago, Deckert said:

I agree with the post above by @stillafool

What's the rush? 

So what he's "gone back on his word" as far as deadlines go. He's there- 5 nights a week and paying more than half the rent!

Seems like you want him to admit he's still got feelings for his exwife when it seems to be about simply not pissing her off and losing access to his kids and maybe getting into a messy divorce.

Either way pressuring him with threats isn't going to get you the desired results.

 

I’m not here to hear everybody tell me I’m right I assure you. I wanted to see what people’s opinions are and as unreasonable seems to spring to your minds, I accept that. And I accept that you all think this isn’t that weird that he’s doing this therefore a big part of me can feel some comfort and relief in that. 

[Karla88]

13 minutes ago, Eeejay said:

This is why it helps to write things out sometimes or to get opinions from folks on a forum like this. This statement is honest and it's getting down to the reality of why this has upset you so much.

The thing is, you've made a lot of big changes in order to make this relationship with MM work. He, on the other hand, is dragging his feet and giving you excuses (albeit good, valid ones) as to why he won't follow through. I believe you said in your first post that from the beginning, you were 'all in' and he wasn't. What exactly does that mean - did you have to apply a lot of pressure in order to get him to bust up his marriage? Did you resort to threats or coercion (ie, be with me now, or I'm telling your wife everything)?

I think your view on this is too simplistic. He's likely not hesitating just because his wife has 'kicked off', as you say. He told you it was complicated - that it's about his wife and her feelings, his kids and their feelings, and (whether you want to believe it or not), his own feelings, too. These are people with a weighty history, not chess pieces that need to be moved around in order to win a game (and full disclosure, I say this as someone whose parents divorced when I was a teen and whose father did NOT handle the situation well at all). And with what you've said about deliberately moving closer to his wife, the fact that you want him to tell her NOW and got angry when he said it's not a good time to do it - I think you need to dig deep and explore whether or not you really think that the scenario you want is best for everyone (ie, his and your kids), or whether you really just want to cement your 'win' over his wife once and for all. And I honestly say that gently to you, not to be judgmental or accusatory. I just think that you've convinced yourself that if it weren't for that pesky wife in the mix with her dang feelings, this would all be one big episode of The Brady Bunch and everyone would already be gathered around the Christmas ham singing "Sunshine Days". That's just not how real life works, and I think you need to really prepare for a rough ride or you'll risk getting hurt here (more than you already have).

Yes I agree that coming here has definitely helped with my perspective. Family and friends are of course with me and don’t want me to get hurt so their feelings in this are also clouded. He has let me down a lot I. This relationship. When they split, he carried on living there for 4 months. It was lockdown and he had no where else to go for some of that time and he said he felt bad leaving her whilst she’s upset and couldn’t see her family etc. I understand that but of course it done nothing for me and my self esteem. He got the flat and then he said he struggled going from seeing the kids every night to twist he thought at that time would be every other weekend, so for another few months he continued to go back for the weekends. This also of course made sense to him but it felt he didn’t understand it from my point of view. Then he said he would spend Christmas there even though he said he would be with me a bit over that period and he wasn’t.  Then he assured me he would be with me for New Year’s Eve last year. An hour before he was due to come he said she had a meltdown and he couldn’t leave the kids with her. Then he officially stopped staying there and he had his kids every weekend, he told me, and not because of pressure but he told me that by the end of the year everything would be fine, he envisaged me meeting the kids and he said that we would be living together properly, he joked that if it hadn’t happened, to leave him. So here we are, I waited patiently all year for him to bring the kids up, place plans in order, and it just went on and on. So of course for me there is so much doh t about his timings and plans and whether he feels that by doing everything this way he is protecting everybody when really I think perhaps he is just hurting everybody. 

[stillafool]

30 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

I am not saying the way I feel is right. But you can’t help the way you feel. 
 

I want him to be honest, I am sick of hiding, being in the shadows, not being able to be a full part of his life like he is mine, that’s all. 

You're getting a larger percentage of his time than anyone else so what "shadows" are you speaking of?  

Also, isn't this hard on your daughter not being around her father now but another man?  Is her father allowed to visit her there?

[Wiseman2]

28 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

 he said he felt bad leaving her whilst she’s upset.... 

He wants you to focus on her to keep the wrath away from himself. He's the culprit, not her. He's driving all this but would rather throw his wife and kids under the bus so you're mad at them rather than the rightful culprit in all this.

You have zero leverage since you (for whatever reason?) rented a place with him. You can stomp your feet you can be mad at her but so what?  He'll just play victim and move the goal posts.

[Eeejay]

Quote

 An hour before he was due to come he said she had a meltdown and he couldn’t leave the kids with her.

Quote

(just because his ex has kicked off at him and even though he promised he would before Christmas) 

So every time he has to let you down or break plans with you, he blames his wife and her emotional state, is that it? I would strongly advise you to take these statements with a huge grain of salt.

I had a boyfriend once who, every time he didn't want to meet up with friends or go to a party or whatever, would decline and use me as an excuse. "Oh, EJ is under the weather so we're gonna skip out". "Yeah, EJ had a rough day at work so we're laying low tonight". "Oh, that sounds fun, but EJ made me promise to take her to this movie she wants to see so I can't come". I didn't realize he was doing this. In the end, this dude was conflict-avoidant and didn't want to look like the 'bad guy' in anyone's eyes, ever. I'm sure people thought I was the lamest wet-blanket ever, when in actuality I had no idea we were even getting these invites half the time. PS - that relationship didn't last, lol.

My point is, conflict-avoidant people do this. I would bet a substantial amount of money that his wife isn't the emotional basket case he's painted her to be, and I think you should be careful about allowing yourself to believe that SHE is the problem in this equation that's keeping you from your fully-realized happily ever after. 

Quote

he said that we would be living together properly, he joked that if it hadn’t happened, to leave him.

I'd be careful with how hard you laugh at 'jokes' like this. If he is conflict-avoidant, this might actually be hitting a bit closer than you want to admit to how he actually wants this to play out. If he just keeps putting you off and you get fed up and ditch him, then his decision is made FOR him. You're out of his life, he can feasibly beg his wife to take him back, focus on repairing that damage and he doesn't have to live his life as the father who left his family for another woman he cheated with. I'm not saying this is what's happening, but this statement struck me, and not in a good way...

Edited December 8, 2021 by Eeejay

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Karla88 said:

for me there is so much doh t about his timings and plans and whether he feels that by doing everything this way he is protecting everybody when really I think perhaps he is just hurting everybody. 

He is protecting himself. And possibly his wife and children, as he does need to maintain good relationship with these people who he loves (or has a history with that included love, as his ex wife and the mother of his children). He is also trying to balance his familial obligations with keeping you happy/meeting your needs. But, at the end of the day, he is protecting his own best interest as it relates to all of these relationships.

It is amusing how men who are conflict avoidant get themselves into these kinds of complicated situations where they are in conflict with so many people who have different interest/needs. Talk about a challenge to try to please everyone and avoid conflict. 

He’s disappointed you a lot - that is the lot of an affair partner and a new relationship/step parent when he shares children with another woman. The children will always come first. And because she is their mother, his ex-wife will always be a part of your lives. It’s hard to live your life when your partner has divided loyalties. That’s not for everyone, perhaps you do need to consider whether you can continue to do this because it’s not going to get easier when they know about you. 

If you wait it out, I would do so with the understanding that you will continue to live your own life with your daughter and whatever happens with this relationship, happens. You do have his commitment if he is spending five days a week with you and paying half the rent. Maybe that is enough for now and you can see how things go. But maybe that changes in the next 6-12 months, if he is still primarily focused on supporting/smoothing the waters with his ex-wife. 

Personally, I don’t think you are wrong for wanting to be honest with his family - I could not live a lie, remove pictures, etc… I would be seriously concerned if my partner asked me to do so. The longer this goes, the more difficult it will be for everyone to accept if/when the truth comes out.