His ex and kids

[RebeccaR]

OP, there was a similar thread posted in 2020 in which a married man was also  reluctant to leave his wife during lockdown because he was concerned she would be lonely. Have you seen this:

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/595096-separated-from-wife-but-lockdown-prevents-him-moving-out/

[Wiseman2]

Sadly your conversations are still all about his wife and marriage. They're not about you or building a relationship with you. They're still all about why he can't build a relationship with you.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Karla88 said:

His job is consultancy and he can take contracts all over the world so she is telling him to take one abroad so she doesn’t have to keep seeing him, saying to do them all a favour and f*** off basically it was she has said. I have seen these messages. 

So, his ex is not coping and there are still a lot of unresolved feelings there. This will only get worse when she learns the truth. He knows it, that’s why he does not want to tell her.

I agree with starswillshine, this is why people wait to settle a divorce before dating again. As the saying goes around here - separated or recently divorced men generally don’t make good boyfriends. They are still way too involved with each other and it is still hard on everyone. He is not ready to move forward - you either accept this and give it more time or you take a break from each other and let this settle more. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Karla88 said:

I have said to him that he should of introduced me before moving in with me but he says that basically, he is in a position to judge what is best for the kids and he doesn’t see it as an issue.

Clearly it’s an issue if his wife is telling him that she will never allow her children to be around you (never mind live with you) and she has told him to leave the country…

2 hours ago, Karla88 said:

All I can think is that it’s his funeral if all this goes wrong and his kids grow to hate him.

No, it’s your funeral because any man of character would do right by his kids - even if that means they have to wait to be in a relationship. Besides - how are you ok with staying with a man when you know that the decision to do so has basically cost him a relationship with his kids. Never mind the wife - the kids are old enough to make their own decisions and they are going to see a man who hurt their mother and chose another woman over them. It’s hard to come back from that. It doesn’t matter what his wife says - they are going to see this situation very clearly for what it is and they will distance themselves accordingly…

2 hours ago, Karla88 said:

I’m not saying the kids are going to be ecstatic to see me but they could adapt a hell of a lot easier without their mum guilt tripping them, 2 years on from separation. 

Wow. Let’s place the blame for the fact that your/his poor decisions are negatively affecting the children on their mother. Yes, her guilt tripping the kids is the problem - not the fact that he left the family to be with another woman and moved in with the other woman before even introducing her to her kids. Girl, you got to get your head on straight because your emotion is clouding your judgment here…

Again - my partner’s ex wife has legitimate mental health problems that prevent her from working. He was separated from her for two years before the divorce was final, he waited two years after the divorce to date me, we waited three years after we told her about me to move in together. Neither his son or his mother have given us one moment of grief. If you take your time, respect the other people involved, and do it well - it doesn’t have to be like this. You have rushed everything and you are paying the price now…

Edited December 9, 2021 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, Karla88 said:

How she can tell her kids dad to move away and never see her kids again just shows that this is all about her and not the kids to me. I’m not saying the kids are going to be ecstatic to see me but they could adapt a hell of a lot easier without their mum guilt tripping them, 2 years on from separation. 

She didn't tell him HE could never see his kids again, she said she didn't want them around YOU.   If that is even true or a lie MM told you IDK.  This sounds like a MM's lie because he doesn't want to introduce you to his kids.  They are older teenagers and in a couple of years they can make their own choice as to be around you and their Dad if they want.  None of these decisions are preventing MM from moving in with you and letting everyone know you are together.  That has absolutely nothing to do with him having his kids.   He can live with you and your daughter and see his kids separately if that is what his kids want and it won't affect your relationship one bit.  Stop trying to make his wife the bad guy in this and just live your life with your daughter.  Him and his wife's children and visitation are not your business.

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, Karla88 said:

How she can tell her kids dad to move away and never see her kids again just shows that this is all about her and not the kids to me.

Of course, which is why we are advising that they are not done with each other yet. They need more time to deal with the end of their marriage and established a new normal - a healthy coparenting relationship. It’s difficult to do that when there are new partners in the mix.

Stillafool is correct though - there is nothing stopping you from getting a home and living together. At this point, his wife and kids are a separate entity and it may be like this for some time to come… adjust your expectations accordingly. 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, Karla88 said:

We are 2 years down the line he is fine with it, he has a new partner of over a year too. 

Does your daughter get to spend time with her Dad and his new partner at their home?

[Karla88]

18 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Does your daughter get to spend time with her Dad and his new partner at their home?

In all fairness, he doesn’t bother with her often,  he has his new childless life of partying and travelling with his girlfriend and he doesn’t seem to ever want my daughter to be a part of it. My ex is the complete opposite to my partner in terms of being a Dad. I think that’s why it frustrates me a lot that his ex is like this with my partner because he just wants to be a good dad and see his kids as often as possible, she could of had kids with a man like my ex who doesn’t even show much interest in them. 

 

[Karla88]

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Of course, which is why we are advising that they are not done with each other yet. They need more time to deal with the end of their marriage and established a new normal - a healthy coparenting relationship. It’s difficult to do that when there are new partners in the mix.

Stillafool is correct though - there is nothing stopping you from getting a home and living together. At this point, his wife and kids are a separate entity and it may be like this for some time to come… adjust your expectations accordingly. 

 

I admit that it frustrates me and kinda hurts a little too that I went all in and he didn’t straight away, it does upset me that he seems to put her feelings before mine (and apparently his) too, especially as he isn’t saying that the kids aren’t ready or that he wants it this way. He is the one saying he wants everything that I do, in the timescales that have already been and gone etc and then saying it’s just that she will guilt trip the kids. If he had any other reasons as to why he was stalling I’d perhaps understand and get his points but the fact he is blaming it solely on her recent behaviour is what infuriates me. If my ex said to me that I could only see my kids if I wasn’t in a serious relationship and that I wasn’t to introduce a serious relationship to my kids and that whilst I was seeing the kids I had to basically down play my serious relationship and couldn’t answer calls from them, couldn’t tell them I had moved in with my partner, I would tell him to get the hell over it (after all this time that is) I wouldn’t ever put his feelings before my partners (especially after nearly 2 years of separation) and I’m pretty sure that my partner would be absolutely furious if I did or now began doing so. 
 

I do think you are right in that i may need to prepare myself for this going on for sometime, but I also believe that come January if he ends up with another reason why he can’t be honest with them about moving in together and he then has to keep the flat on for longer etc, (bearing in mind that he has said to me it’s only because it’s Christmas and that’s why he won’t say it yet) and promised, reassured me, swore down that it will happen, then there is going to be arguments, it’s not a threat or anything it’s just that I know it will happen, because he has gone back on his word yet again and every time he does this, his words mean less and less. I know that I can’t continue to live this lie, I don’t want to be a part of it anymore beyond that point and I certainly don’t want my daughter to be. 

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

In all fairness, he doesn’t bother with her often,  he has his new childless life of partying and travelling with his girlfriend and he doesn’t seem to ever want my daughter to be a part of it.

All the more reason not to rush to involve your darling daughter in a complicated living situation with a man who is not divorced, has an ex-wife who is not coping, and children who are dealing with the separation of their parents and adjusting to a very new normal. 

[Karla88]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

She didn't tell him HE could never see his kids again, she said she didn't want them around YOU.   If that is even true or a lie MM told you IDK.  This sounds like a MM's lie because he doesn't want to introduce you to his kids.  They are older teenagers and in a couple of years they can make their own choice as to be around you and their Dad if they want.  None of these decisions are preventing MM from moving in with you and letting everyone know you are together.  That has absolutely nothing to do with him having his kids.   He can live with you and your daughter and see his kids separately if that is what his kids want and it won't affect your relationship one bit.  Stop trying to make his wife the bad guy in this and just live your life with your daughter.  Him and his wife's children and visitation are not your business.

Yes I get that she will allow him to see them. She was fine with him seeing the kids as much as he wanted until she found out he had a girlfriend and now it’s like she is punishing him for it and of course them by being awkward about when and how long etc. She has said in the last hour on a message that she can’t wait to ‘move a man in’  to ‘see his face’ when another man is bringing up his kids - sounds pure toxic to me. She does know how to hurt him that’s for sure and had it not been nearly 2 years later, I would be quite concerned he could go back for the kids sake but I do 95% of me believe that ship has sailed, especially on his part. 

[BaileyB]

25 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

He is the one saying he wants everything that I do, in the timescales that have already been and gone etc and then saying it’s just that she will guilt trip the kids.

I hear you Karla. I would be furious too. It would frustrate me too that he would put his soon to be ex-wife ahead of me. The children, no problem. The ex-wife, not in any other way than I would want him to be cordial and respectful to her as the mother of his children. 

It’s not his ex wife who is the problem - it’s him. He has not been honest and transparent with you. He is perhaps not able to be honest with himself. He may want the same things you do, but he is not in a position to be able to back that up with actions. It’s too soon, they need more time. He hasn’t been honest with you about that - instead, he tells you that he doesn’t think it will be a problem (a bit delusional and rather naive on his part) and he blame shifts (his ex-wife will keep the children from him and turn them against him). She actually has every reason to be upset - her husband left her essentially for another woman and he is now expecting that their children will live with this woman - who they have never met. If I was their mother, I would be beside myself. While what she is saying is not logical (when she asked him to move way and said that she plans to move another man into the home in retaliation), the feelings are valid. He hasn’t done right by her, by his children, or by you. And, I would be furious about that. 

This is a family in crisis. Do you really want to be involved in this - so you want to bring your daughter into this situation? Really think about that. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

30 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

I think that’s why it frustrates me a lot that his ex is like this with my partner because he just wants to be a good dad and see his kids as often as possible, she could of had kids with a man like my ex who doesn’t even show much interest in them

Are you saying she does not let him see his children now that he's with you?  His children are at the age that they can decide to see their dad without her permission.  They are teenagers.   He can take them out and spend time with them, without you being around.

Why would she want to have kids with a man who has no interest in them?  That wouldn't be fair to her kids.

Edited December 9, 2021 by stillafool

[Milly May June]

I think the wifes frustration stems mostly from his waffling back and forth, coming and going. In your mind you believe it has been 2 years separation but for the wife I think it has been a considerable shorter period. She is fed up by him sitting on the fence that she, in frustration, is telling him to move away to another country and let them be already. 

As for her retailiation about bringing a new man into their home. Well that will likely happend down the line. And just imagine how your boyfriend would feel if the roles were reversed. If she was the one who secretly had the affair, moved in with her AP, lead him on to spare his feelings, sat on the fence and on top of that sceamed to introduce and blend the kids with said AP... What would he do? How would he behave? He would go nuts. Most people would.

Your boyfriend has caused a lot of emotional suffering to his wife. For 2 years. Separated but not divorced is literally living in limbo without being able to move on. The only reason why I think she did not file for divorce is because he kept waffling back and forth. 

Think about this. Just to save face and be the good guy he is hurting a lot of people and risking his relationship with his kids because of all the lies. Keep this in mind if he does this to you too down the line in any aspect of your relationship. It's his way of dealing with difficult things in life. He will manipulate and lie just to avoid consequences, be the bad guy and whatnot.

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, Milly May June said:

Your boyfriend has caused a lot of emotional suffering to his wife.

I was just thinking about this. You are clearly angry and frustrated with his wife, as she is the person who is primarily holding up the coming together of your happy fantasy…

But, you are not all that different. He has lied to her about you. And, he has lied to you about her - by telling you that he doesn’t see a problem when he decided to move on quickly, move in with you, and eventually move his kids into your home. Clearly - none of that is true. So, while you are frustrated with her, she is also frustrated with you. You both should be frustrated with him - because if he had treated you both with respect and been honest with you both, you wouldn’t be in this state of limbo. You are tangled up in this very unhealthy way that is torturous to you both! 

8 minutes ago, Milly May June said:

Think about this. Just to save face and be the good guy he is hurting a lot of people and risking his relationship with his kids because of all the lies.

Very true. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by BaileyB

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Karla88 said:

In all fairness, he doesn’t bother with her often,  he has his new childless life of partying and travelling with his girlfriend and he doesn’t seem to ever want my daughter to be a part of it.

Don't you have a court ordered child support and custody/visitation schedule in place?

You seem so bitter about your ex. That's sad. But that still does not make this coward you're with a gem.

However your child  deserves stability and that means court ordered organized custody/visitation.

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You seem so bitter about your ex. That's sad. But that still does not make this coward you're with a gem.

I agree and you seem far more interested in MM seeing his kids than your child's father seeing and having a relationship with her.  He's the one you should be angry with for letting his OW keep him from his child.

[Starswillshine]

I'm not saying any of her behaviors are right, but... her husband dumped her, and she doesn't know about the affair. So she has not gotten used to this idea of you together (you have been together for some time and have had lots of time to process that)... he has not been forthright and probably have teetered back and forth with all that. 

On top of this, she has been a SAHM and no doubtedly freaking out about how to support herself and the kids (my chest was in constant constriction mode while I went through my divorce because of this... not knowing whether it was just a panic attack or a heart attack brought on by the stress). I said many unkind things. I lost my mind... and I was the on who asked for the separation and the divorce. Try to put yourself in her shoes with some empathy and compassion. It *may* help you feel little better about the situation. 

[Karla88]

46 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Are you saying she does not let him see his children now that he's with you?  His children are at the age that they can decide to see their dad without her permission.  They are teenagers.   He can take them out and spend time with them, without you being around.

Why would she want to have kids with a man who has no interest in them?  That wouldn't be fair to her kids.

She is being awkward. Taking them places she usually wouldn’t, telling him that he has to have them back in an hour because they’ve got ‘plans’ saying she’s going to her mums with them for tea, or just taking them with her to the shops when she knew he was coming to take them out etc. They’re quite subtle at the moment but she is certainly becoming awkward. 

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, Karla88 said:

She is being awkward. Taking them places she usually wouldn’t, telling him that he has to have them back in an hour because they’ve got ‘plans’ saying she’s going to her mums with them for tea, or just taking them with her to the shops when she knew he was coming to take them out etc. They’re quite subtle at the moment but she is certainly becoming awkward. 

This is why he needs an appropriate custody agreement and I’m mystified why he hasn’t pursued this legally.

Edited December 9, 2021 by RebeccaR

[Karla88]

17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Don't you have a court ordered child support and custody/visitation schedule in place?

You seem so bitter about your ex. That's sad. But that still does not make this coward you're with a gem.

However your child  deserves stability and that means court ordered organized custody/visitation.

No, because my daughter does not want to see him on a forced visit. He rocks up now and then and he texts/calls her. My daughter has struggled for a while to come to terms with him and his ways and this last few months she has. Although it’s a very sad predicament, and something that will affect her for the rest of her life, she is seeing him for what he is and it’s brought her and me very close. 
 

I do not believe him to be a gem. Just because he is wanting to spend time with his children as much as he can, doesn’t make him a good father. Perhaps the way I parent is different to him but I know that I could not of moved in with somebody and not having told my kids, fair enough my child lives with me but even if she didn’t, I couldn’t live that lie and if I thought that my child wasn’t ready to hear that then I wouldn’t do it. He has done all of this behind their back, deceives them daily and then tells me it’s for their sake, if he hadn’t of moved in with me, if he kept the relationship casual and said it was for their sake I’d of believed him but this is all for his sake. Not mine, not theirs, not hers. He wants to keep everybody on pins for the sake of not being the bad guy and by avoiding the looming conflict which is going to be tremendously made worse by the lies. 

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

He wants to keep everybody on pins for the sake of not being the bad guy and by avoiding the looming conflict which is going to be tremendously made worse by the lies. 

Without a doubt.

3 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

He has done all of this behind their back, deceives them daily and then tells me it’s for their sake

Makes me wonder what he is lying to you about daily “for your own sake?”

[Karla88]

11 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

This is why he needs an appropriate custody agreement and I’m mystified why he hasn’t pursued this legally.

I guess because he thinks he can get everything he wants without the formalities. I sometimes wonder if he thinks he’s a god. That can control everything around him. I think he, at this moment is trying to keep her sweet. She probably thinks she has the upper hand to a certain degree and he’s allowing her to think that, I am under the impression that he’s going to be honest next month therefore I feel I’ve got the upper hand yet the reality is, he has great upper hand and neither her or I do. I am definitely curious to see what happens after Christmas. I know he has said he will hand his one month notice in on his flat by 14th of December in order to ‘show me’ that he is doing what he says he is doing so I guess that’ll be the first step in seeing whether he’s actually serious although it isn’t solid proof of his intentions, it is a start.

[Karla88]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

Without a doubt.

Makes me wonder what he is lying to you about daily “for your own sake?”

I agree, and it’s almost as if he believes he is doing it for all of us, he’s doing us a favour. 
 

I do believe his world will come crashing down soon enough if he keeps this up. The lies to me, the lies to them. Come January I have some serious decisions to make. It won’t be because he hasn’t dragged the kids here to me kicking and screaming, it won’t be because ‘I want a blended family and I want it now’ it’s because of his word meaning nothing, it’s the suspicion around his timeline of events and the separation itself, it’s his seemingly lack of control over a situation, His conflict avoidance approach to all of this, his cowardly ways and his torment and pain that he seems to continue putting us all through on the daily. 

[BaileyB]

4 minutes ago, Karla88 said:

I guess because he thinks he can get everything he wants without the formalities.

I would say, based on her apparent behavior this week, that this is magical thinking (in much the same way that he thought she would be fine with the children coming to your new home and that the children would be so happy that he is living closer, they would be nothing but accepting of the situation). 

Lawyers exist for good reason. Very few divorcing couples are able to negotiate these details in a situation of high emotion without a lawyer. He would be wise to protect his interests - trusting that she will be generous and do the right thing is very unwise.