Dating MM as he goes through a divorce; can he be trusted after long term a?

[pepperbird2]

Op,

Given what you say about this guy I;d be very, very cautious.
First off, for all his family is "religious" , they sure seem to be okay with his cheating on his wife. That sounds quite hypocritical. Secondly, it sounds as if his family actually supports his cheating, as for his friends/extended social circle. What makes you think he'll be any different with you?
is that really the type of individual/family you want to hitch your star to? What happens if/when he decides you're not enough for him?

People cheat for all sorts of reasons- some do it once and never will again, others are serial cheaters because it's just who they are. It's a whole lot easier when the people you surround yourself with condone the behaviour.

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

His dad, uncle, and older sibling were also in this profession

 Ah...

Quote

Although there is a large body of research addressing infidelity, no study, to our knowledge, has specifically addressed infidelity in doctors and nurses and the correlation with work hours, schedule and other variables. This research aimed to know the incidence of and factors related to infidelity among doctors and nurses. A descriptive study was carried out, studying the association of certain variables. In total, 367 volunteer participants completed an online survey. Of them, 21% either have or have had an unfaithful relationship. The majority (81.7%) were doctors. Men were 4.3 times more unfaithful than women, with these differences being statistically significant (OR = 4.37, p < 0.001). Of the participants involved in an unfaithful relationship within the work area, the majority were men. Likewise, those who reported having had sex in the doctor's room on duty were also men, with these differences being statistically significant (OR = 12.81, p < 0.01). The night emergency schedule was 60% more frequent in unfaithful people, and these differences were statistically significant (OR = 12.43, p < 0.01). There is a significant rate of infidelity in doctors and nurses. Men are more likely to be unfaithful than women are, and people who work nighttime emergencies are more likely to be unfaithful.
Incidence and Related Factors of Infidelity among Medical Doctors and Nurses. - Abstract - Europe PMC  - https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/PMC8197082

His family are backing him, not you. He may be pretty powerful in his family, they may have had little choice.
Also it may  be one of these families where the men cheat and the women put up with it, so of course they will be supportive...
If he bins you or cheats on you, they likely will again back him and throw you under the bus.

 

[spiderowl]

On 12/9/2021 at 7:40 PM, kaylasummer said:

Has anyone dated a MM going through a divorce? I met MM a little over four years ago. We have everything in common, became the best of friends, and did everything together over the 1 1/2 yr EA and 2 yr PA. His family accepted me, we shared mutual friends, and I’ve truly felt he was the one. Fast forward to D day. It was a mess. He left but went back; I’ve already shared this, so I won’t go into detail. I was heartbroken and remained strong on NC since memorial weekend. 

I ran in to him recently at our mutual friends’ holiday party. He did and said some things that would melt anyone’s heart. They also filed for D,. I’m still shocked as his family are all very against D. We’ve had some pretty deep conversations since and he let me know he has been in love with me for years. He told his xW this after dday as well. To add to everything she did (Messaging my family/friends, etc.. I don’t blame her.. I may have too), she told his entire family this which may have been a good thing, as they all supported him.

We’ve agreed he has a lot going on right now and will be taking things extremely slow. Here is my fear: he cheated on his W with me (EA/PA) for 3 1/2 years!! I found out he had cheated when they were first married as well! It’s nauseating to think about. He says it wasn’t right with her and he knew that before they even married (they married for the wrong reason). That doesn’t ease my mind. I saw first hand how easy it was to forget about his W & family at home while spending evenings and weekends with me. I saw first hand how he lied to her without batting an eye. Is he capable of lying/cheating down the road? He says no, but I’m sure he told his xW the same. I filed for D years ago during our EA. I can’t imagine lying/cheating through a long term PA. Really struggling with this. 

 

 

I think you've answered your own question.  He is a serial cheater.  You know you can't trust him.

[ilikept]

I haven't read all 4 pages of discussion so forgive me if this has already been covered.     

I think the biggest thing you are going to encounter is that a single/divorced, successful, professional man who doesn't have something wrong with him is going to have waaaaay more options than a MM.

Not many women are going to entertain a MM sexually and his options for getting outside entertainment will be very limited.  

As a successful, professional on the open market he will have lots of opportunities and if he is the least bit good looking and charming,  he will have women lined up down the street.  

The question you will need to be asking yourself is are you his best option?     And even if you are the hottest and prettiest,  if after being married for years,  will he simply want to play the field and spin plates now that he can?

Edited January 24, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, pepperbird2 said:

That sounds quite hypocritical. Secondly, it sounds as if his family actually supports his cheating, as for his friends/extended social circle. What makes you think he'll be any different with you?

I don’t think his family would ever support his cheating. I do think his xW telling his parents about it opened up this conversation that needed to be had with his parents. He’s done everything his entire life to please them which included marring his xW for their child. They may have realized how all of their expectations affected him. I’m not sure why they came around, but they have been very supportive of him since this all came out. His mom also said they’ve “seen his smile for the first time in years when we’re together”. They’re also older/retired; they saw the loveless marriage he had and the way his xW bashed him.. no I don’t blame her. Regardless, they’ve come a long way.

[kaylasummer]

2 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

Oh man. The big bad BS who tells people the truth about the MM. I  mean, geez... no wonder everyone accepts, you know, since she is such a horrible person to expose the disgusting ways he treated her. 🙄 

Ya know, I agree with you. I lived a life of integrity before this. I never in a million years thought I’d end up in an A with a MM. I thought he was safe, it would never become more than friendship. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve experienced extreme guilt for this. I often think to myself “how did I of all people get myself in to this?” It’s been a rollercoaster of emotions and guilt has been one!

[kaylasummer]

58 minutes ago, S2B said:

it’s terrible they didn’t support the right thing - they chose to support him.

In his defense, he did go to his parents shortly after our EA became more and talked to them about D. Their response was “—-insert their last name— do not divorce”. They were only able to have an open conversation and hear his concerns when xW contacted him after dday. I don’t think they had an option but to support him at that time. He was finally able to open up to them about how all of their high expectations have affected him. 

[BaileyB]

56 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

I don’t think his family would ever support his cheating.

Kayla, his family who saw you at the family cottage enabled your affair by not telling his wife. The friends who knew about your affair enabled his cheating by not telling his wife. His parents have apparently “endorsed ” your relationship by “welcoming” his affair partner into their home - 

I have an acquaintance who cheated on his wife - for years, his (now ex) wife and children were invited to the family Christmas gathering and his affair partner was not invited. 

Your MM’s family and his friends have, in different ways, supported and enabled his cheating for years. If you think that it would somehow be different with you, you are likely mistaken. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by BaileyB

[kaylasummer]

5 hours ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

It was only through acceptance of my part in it when I can truly begin to address the loss/guilt/shame, knowing that I've contributed to the hurt and pain of others.

Thank you. I have accepted my part of the A. I have gone through so many emotions; guilt has been a big one. Shame as well. I, like you, had lived a life of integrity prior to this. Our friendship seemed safe to me; he was married and I told myself that nothing more will ever happen. His xW knew I had always been innocent, faithful, had morals, etc., and I think that helped her to trust me. Believe me, the guilt ate me up. I ended our A so many times with guilt the biggest reason, but could never stay away from each other. 
 

He, unlike yours had cheated in the past. He was open and honest about it in one of our long conversations. That’s something I can not unhear. He did swear he’s a changed man and he would never do that to me. He told me he knew she was not the one from day one, he was never “in love” with her, and that he married her at a young age as he was finishing school because she became pregnant. He did tell me that he felt trapped with this women he barely knew and it was a mistake from the beginning. I understand that, but it’s still hard to come to terms with the fact that he cheated on her.
 

I know I have to fully trust him to make this work. For the most part I do, but his past does creep up at times… anyway, thank you for sharing. Wishing you the best!

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

His parents have apparently “endorsed ” your relationship by “welcoming” his affair partner into their home - 

I feel like I’m sharing too much but there’s a bit more to it with his family. His parent’s vacation home they’ve spent a lot of time at over the years happens to be in the same small town I grew up in. That’s something that created an instant bond with MM in the beginning. We discovered that we spent summers on the same lake, attended a lot of the same small town events, and knew a lot of the same people. This has helped to bond with his parents/family as well. 
 

His parents knew of my family and knew I was raised with very similar values. My parents also knew of them. They may not have been as accepting had this not been the case. Anyway, I feel like I’ve shared too much.

[ilikept]

12 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

I feel like I’m sharing too much but there’s a bit more to it with his family. His parent’s vacation home they’ve spent a lot of time at over the years happens to be in the same small town I grew up in. That’s something that created an instant bond with MM in the beginning. We discovered that we spent summers on the same lake, attended a lot of the same small town events, and knew a lot of the same people. This has helped to bond with his parents/family as well. 
 

His parents knew of my family and knew I was raised with very similar values. My parents also knew of them. They may not have been as accepting had this not been the case. Anyway, I feel like I’ve shared too much.

Hopefully things work out like you are envisioning,  but you are thinking like a woman and not a guy.     

Women look for the next bigger and better deal and then monkey branch to that person.  

Guys don't necessarily do that.    Guys typically do not dump one person in favor of another bigger, better deal...... they just add more to the mix and will add as many as they can get away with.   And they don't even need to be "better."   Just having additional is good enough.  

As I said in my post above,  much of what happens going forward will depend on if he monkey branches to you (which is a female strategy),,   or now that he will be single and will have many options on the open dating market,  will he choose to play the field and spin plates instead.  

A MM has very limited options in other women while he is married and is limited only to the woman(s) that are willing to sneak around and have an affair with him.   

As a single/divorced man he will have many more opportunities and a man's basic strategy is to get the "most" that he can and not necessarily the "best" like a woman would.  

[Milly May June]

You know I do wounder how many women (who are secure in themselves and know their worth) who would line up to date a goodlooking doctor if he was on the market? 

As soon as they hear about his affairs and doom/gloom description of his failed marriage and what type of family and friends he would bringing into the relationship - they would RUN. Any sand woman would run. I know I would 🏃

 

[notbroken]

Karma.  You had an affair with a cheater and a liar.   Don't be surprised when you end up with a cheater and a liar as a result.  Seriously, do NOT trust this guy.  He has shown you who he is.  He is a serial cheater.  Do yourself a favor and move on from him asap.  

[Prudence V]

On 1/23/2022 at 2:33 PM, kaylasummer said:

Well it definitely hasn’t been roses and sunshine. It was a rollercoaster of emotions throughout the entire A that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.

I guess that answers this question:

On 1/22/2022 at 1:47 PM, Prudence V said:

Be honest in your appraisal. If the relationship you had during those 3.5 years was everything you hoped for, aside from being part time, that’s a good basis to start from. But if there were ways he treated you, or dynamics you resented, or imbalances of power or caring, then that suggests issues that are likely to manifest again. Some issues might be soluble with counselling, but sometimes patterns are too deeply ingrained and are resistant to sustainable change. You need to be honest with yourself about your past relationship, in evaluating the chances for the future. 

Tread carefully, OP. 

[pepperbird2]

19 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I feel like I’m sharing too much but there’s a bit more to it with his family. His parent’s vacation home they’ve spent a lot of time at over the years happens to be in the same small town I grew up in. That’s something that created an instant bond with MM in the beginning. We discovered that we spent summers on the same lake, attended a lot of the same small town events, and knew a lot of the same people. This has helped to bond with his parents/family as well. 
 

His parents knew of my family and knew I was raised with very similar values. My parents also knew of them. They may not have been as accepting had this not been the case. Anyway, I feel like I’ve shared too much.

this family supports his cheating. Wat else do you all it when they openly welcome their son's OW?
THAT'S their "values". You're trying so hard to make this al seem okay, like it's just a mistake on his part, a one off. Doesn't that make you awfully tired?

Way deep down, in your heart of hearts do you really believe you can trust him not to cheat on you when he gets bored, unhappy, maybe traveling for work and he wants a new bedtime companion?

I know OW don't care much for he wives (  the "I feel guilty" line-that's mot relevant) but they really should stop for a minute and consider the way their AP treats their BS. THAT is who they are. You can tell a lot about a person by how they treat the people in their lives. Based on what you say, this guy is no prize. 
 

[mark clemson]

On 1/23/2022 at 6:51 AM, kaylasummer said:

 Of course they naturally defended him and this opened up conversation between him and his parents to better understand how unhappy he had been in his marriage. They supported him.

This is not a shock. However, it shouldn't be an expectation either.

While there are those in the world who are "outraged" at the very notion of an affair, there are also plenty of people who are essentially ok with it. This is true of almost any "controversial" human activity - eating meat, drinking alcohol, taking drugs, divorcing, paying taxes (or cheating on them), etc, etc. All have plenty of people who accept these activities (and even encourage them) as well as plenty of quite sincere detractors.

It's easy to go through life assuming that others share our moral views (and particularly the depth of those views - "how bad" something is). However, this is an illusion/incorrect assumption.

If your MM's family had been the type who are horrified by affairs, they would have reacted differently. They're not, but this reaction is by no means a guarantee. If they recognize he was genuinely unhappy in his marriage, that would likely bolster that. It sounds like this BW tried to "play the tell everyone card" so to speak and it backfired on her. Presumably the intent was to increase pressure on him to end the affair, but again this "move" on her part was probably based on the assumptions I've just mentioned above. She assumed they'd be morally outraged and "on her side" - but - that's indeed an assumption....

I think the point about the family supporting him IF he chose to leave you (or to cheat on you) is probably correct as well. However that generally is going to apply to ANY "new" partner, whether the rel started as an affair or no. You're lucky however, that (in your case) at least they are not the types to reject you out of hand as an OW. That is not a guarantee with these things.

Edited January 24, 2022 by mark clemson

[mark clemson]

I will add - if you intend to attempt to make this work, then probably the worst action you could take would be to become skittish and strongly look like you're wavering. IF his "move" to you is predicated (in his mind) on a "soft landing" emotionally to you - among all the hassles and stresses that divorce is likely to bring, then pulling that rug out from under him may be just the straw that breaks the camel's back and makes it "not worth it" for him to leave. Something to keep in mind.

Reality, though, is that this is early doors and there is NO guarantee he will end up with you, even if you are very supportive. That's simply life and relationships generally. It would be just as true if he were 2 years out of a divorce and you had just started dating. So you'll have to decide if it's worth the risk. If YOU don't want HIM, then what happens with his marriage is ultimately his business. He knew the risks when he decided to have an affair.

Edited January 24, 2022 by mark clemson

[kaylasummer]

8 hours ago, Milly May June said:

You know I do wounder how many women (who are secure in themselves and know their worth) who would line up to date a goodlooking doctor if he was on the market? 

As soon as they hear about his affairs and doom/gloom description of his failed marriage and what type of family and friends he would bringing into the relationship - they would RUN. Any sand woman would run. I know I would 🏃

 

Yes, I can not stand guys like this. I had a single, recently divorced doctor with this reputation hit on me while in a wedding together a few years ago. I was completely disgusted by his arrogance.
 

Yet here I am… I’m sure he has the same reputation since everything’s out. He’s a lot more down to earth/humble..not the arrogant doctor you’re probably envisioning. Knowing what I know about his past and what happened throughout our long term A, he’s probably not the best catch.. or even an ok catch for that matter. However,  i’m in too far to just walk away because of his past at this point.

Edited January 24, 2022 by kaylasummer

[ExpatInItaly]

34 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

However,  i’m in too far to just walk away because of his past at this point.

But that's just it - it's not just his past. 

It's his present, too. 

[ilikept]

This is going to sound pretty contradictory,  but the vast majority of affairs need marriages in order to work.     Affairs by their very nature are "extra" fun and frivolity without all the nitty gritty of a real relationship.   

Affairs are the "fun" part of life.    It's all terms of endearment and passion and hot sex in hotels for stolen moments,,  maybe even discussions of "what if?".   

But the bottom line is they are extra fun without all the hassles of bills and clogged toilets and raising kids or repairing roofs or killing spiders.  

Generally speaking,  the spouse is the one that people pay bills and raise kids and pay mortgages with.    The AP is for extra fun on the side  and what the AP gets in return is all the romance and all the flattery and the stolen moments of passionate, hot, monkey sex.   

When the marriage dissolves,  that entire dynamic is thrown out the window and everything changes.  

Now the MM is leaving his dirty underwear and nasty socks on your floor.   Now he wants you to take care of his domestic activities and entertain and take care of his kids and pick up and wash his skid marked underwear.  

And your wants and expectations will change as well.   Now you will want him to pay bills and cover your expenses and unclog your toilet and kill your spiders.   Before the divorce, you were the fun girl and sexy chick that he would get with on the side without any relationship obligations.   Now you will want and expect him to actually be a partner and perform partnerly duties.  And now you will want and expect him to be monogamous and faithful to you.  

His wife wanted him to perform husbandly duties and to be faithful and monogamous to her and look at how well he performed those basic partner functions.  

This is going into a whole new dynamic that will be based on a completely different relationship paradigm.    All bets are off here.   You had a 3 year affair which means that you both functioned well in the affair role and the affair paradigm.    To now shift into a traditional relationship is a major paradigm shift that neither of you may be cut out for.  

Edited January 24, 2022 by ilikept

[ilikept]

31 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

But that's just it - it's not just his past. 

It's his present, too. 

More importantly,  this is part of his character and persona.   It's who and what he is.  

He is a serial cheater and this was a multi year affair.  This wasn't sneaking into the on-call room for some quick mashing during the office Christmas party -  this was part of a lifestyle of leading a double life.   

This is who and what he is.  

[kaylasummer]

20 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

But that's just it - it's not just his past. 

It's his present, too. 

I’m guarding my heart (or trying to at least). We have a trip booked with his siblings the end of February relating to a mutual hobby of ours; this is something his ex hated and had no interest in. I’m trying to remain optimistic as well. We share a lot of the same hobbies/interests. I also work in the speciality relating to his profession, so we can have conversations about work as well. He’s told me on so many occasions that it’s nice to have someone he can have intelligent conversations with because of our so many shared interests. He’s also shared that he never had that with xW. I’d like to believe things are different with us and that “once a cheater, always a cheater” doesn’t always pertain, but I get it and treading cautiously!

[stillafool]

On 12/9/2021 at 2:40 PM, kaylasummer said:

I saw first hand how easy it was to forget about his W & family at home while spending evenings and weekends with me. I saw first hand how he lied to her without batting an eye. Is he capable of lying/cheating down the road?

Excuse me but aren't you guilty of the same behavior?  Didn't you cheat on your xhusband to have sex with this MM?  What makes you different than him?

[kaylasummer]

6 minutes ago, ilikept said:

More importantly,  this is part of his character and persona.   It's who and what he is.  

He is a serial cheater and this was a multi year affair.  This wasn't sneaking into the on-call room for some quick mashing during the office Christmas party -  this was part of a lifestyle of leading a double life.   

This is who and what he is.  

I get that which is why I’m having a hard time forgetting. I know what he was capable of and what he had done to his xW. That’s hard to stomach! I just mentioned that I’m trying to guard my heart. We have an out of state trip planned with his siblings the end of February relating to a mutual hobby of ours; this is something his ex hated and had no interest in. We share a lot of the same hobbies/interests and work in the same speciality. He’s told me on so many occasions that it’s nice to have someone he can have intelligent conversations with because of our so many shared interests. He’s also shared that he never had that with xW. I’m trying to stay optimistic. Id like to believe things are different and that “once a cheater, always a cheater” doesn’t always pertain, but I get it. It’s scary! Then again, falling in love with anyone with a cheating past is scary.

[kaylasummer]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

Excuse me but aren't you guilty of the same behavior?  Didn't you cheat on your xhusband to have sex with this MM?  What makes you different than him?

I filed during our friendship as it started turning to an EA. Nothing physical happened until mine was final.