Dating MM as he goes through a divorce; can he be trusted after long term a?

[pepperbird2]

6 hours ago, mark clemson said:

This is not a shock. However, it shouldn't be an expectation either.

While there are those in the world who are "outraged" at the very notion of an affair, there are also plenty of people who are essentially ok with it. This is true of almost any "controversial" human activity - eating meat, drinking alcohol, taking drugs, divorcing, paying taxes (or cheating on them), etc, etc. All have plenty of people who accept these activities (and even encourage them) as well as plenty of quite sincere detractors.

It's easy to go through life assuming that others share our moral views (and particularly the depth of those views - "how bad" something is). However, this is an illusion/incorrect assumption.

If your MM's family had been the type who are horrified by affairs, they would have reacted differently. They're not, but this reaction is by no means a guarantee. If they recognize he was genuinely unhappy in his marriage, that would likely bolster that. It sounds like this BW tried to "play the tell everyone card" so to speak and it backfired on her. Presumably the intent was to increase pressure on him to end the affair, but again this "move" on her part was probably based on the assumptions I've just mentioned above. She assumed they'd be morally outraged and "on her side" - but - that's indeed an assumption....

I think the point about the family supporting him IF he chose to leave you (or to cheat on you) is probably correct as well. However that generally is going to apply to ANY "new" partner, whether the rel started as an affair or no. You're lucky however, that (in your case) at least they are not the types to reject you out of hand as an OW. That is not a guarantee with these things.

 This man's family is okay with cheating. It could even be that its pattern passed own form father to son. Hy the op thinks it will be any different with her is beyond me. This is why I really think it coudl be a good idea for the two of them to get some relationship counseling together. Find out where they both stand.

[pepperbird2]

4 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I get that which is why I’m having a hard time forgetting. I know what he was capable of and what he had done to his xW. That’s hard to stomach! I just mentioned that I’m trying to guard my heart. We have an out of state trip planned with his siblings the end of February relating to a mutual hobby of ours; this is something his ex hated and had no interest in. We share a lot of the same hobbies/interests and work in the same speciality. He’s told me on so many occasions that it’s nice to have someone he can have intelligent conversations with because of our so many shared interests. He’s also shared that he never had that with xW. I’m trying to stay optimistic. Id like to believe things are different and that “once a cheater, always a cheater” doesn’t always pertain, but I get it. It’s scary! Then again, falling in love with anyone with a cheating past is scary.

This is called triangulating. It's so common in affairs that it's almost beocme a joke. The two of you against his big, bad stupid wife.

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I was raised with morals and integrity.

I'm sure he was to but as you and him both know they don't always stick.

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

No, he carried on for three years in an affair with “the woman he loves” and his “best friend” - hurting Kayla in the process - because he didn’t have the courage to live authentically and with integrity and ask for a divorce/tell his family he needed to make a different decision. Better to sneak around - introducing his affair partner to his family and friends, bringing her into his home to spend time with his wife and children, stealing moments at the office and weekends at the family cabin when his wife is out of town…

 

That sounds bad, yes. In his defense, he did talk to his parents in the beginning of our A about divorce. They told him -insert their last name— do not divorce. Between that, the guilt, alimony, properties, etc.. I didn’t push it. Ever. I never wanted to be the reason his marriage fell apart, although I acknowledge my part in it.

[stillafool]

How old are  his children?

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

"His wife is fifteen years older than me and five years older than MM."

The above is what you said in your original thread about this man.  

She is much older than MM. I don’t want to give TMI. I feel like anyone we know could figure out who they are as I’ve already shared way too much. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by kaylasummer
To remove TMI

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

"His wife is fifteen years older than me and five years older than MM."

The above is what you said in your original thread about this man.  

 

9 minutes ago, stillafool said:

How old are  his children?

I feel like I’ve already shared way too much to identify them should anyone see this. They’re in school, but I’d rather not say.

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, kaylasummer said:

It's not just common interests. Our common interests and experiences is what created our bond. I know this sounds cliche, but he was finishing school out of state when they met, had too many drinks, and she (who’s a lot older than him.. I’m only saying that because she also knew better,.. she wanted kids but at the borderline age at that time and knew he was almost finished in school with a great career on the horizon and became pregnant).
 

She told me this after dday. His parents told him to “leave her; it will never work with the age gap”, but changed their stance when he told them she was expecting to “you need to marry her for that child.” She told me he never told her ILY in all the time they were together and adamantly wanted to know whether he told me. 

He told me all of this recently in one of our long conversations as well. He said he felt trapped, a young guy just finishing school with a women he barely knew, now expecting a child. He was never “in love” with her. Does that make it ok to cheat? Absolutely not, but it helps me to at least understand a bit. 

Awwww.....the poor widdle baby. He got trapped by the big bad wifey and now, he has no choice but to cheat. It's not his fault, really, What choice did he have? She kept him tied up in the basement, somehow bribed every lawyer in town so they wouldn't talk to him, made arrangements with the legal system so he woudl never see his kids again if they got divorced  and was even able to have every website that gives advice on ending marriage ethically taken down.
Of course he cheated. What choice did he have?🙄

If you want to have any hope in hell of making a future relationship work you have to stop sugar coating his actions and making excuses. Hold hid feet tot he fire-otherwise, you'll never be able to trust him, and you'll soon find yourself miserable
 

[stillafool]

13 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

That sounds bad, yes. In his defense, he did talk to his parents in the beginning of our A about divorce. They told him -insert their last name— do not divorce. Between that, the guilt, alimony, properties, etc.. I didn’t push it. Ever. I never wanted to be the reason his marriage fell apart, although I acknowledge my part in it.

Oh goodie, this is what you can expect from them when you get with him and he his OW is around his parents.  They will welcome her with open arms as long as it pleases him.

So instead of pushing him to divorce his poor wife you thought it would be better to just continue having sex with him behind her back.  Less stress on him.

[stillafool]

10 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

 

I feel like I’ve already shared way too much to identify them should anyone see this. They’re in school, but I’d rather not say.

Well if they are still in school that tells me when she had them it was during a time when other arrangements could have been made other than a shot gun wedding because of pregancy if he wanted it.  Those kids were born during a time of single mothers and abortion.  He didn't have to marry her, he wanted to and she is only 5 years older.  If that.

Edited January 24, 2022 by stillafool

[stillafool]

14 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

She is much older than MM. I don’t want to give TMI. I feel like anyone we know could figure out who they are as I’ve already shared way too much. 

Yeah,  okay.

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, ilikept said:

 

OK so now you are saying that common interests were NOT the reason you two were cheating and that what you said 3 posts ago is not applicable.    Because in two of the last 3 posts you made prior you said that your common interests was the reason and that is what you bonded over.  

I'm just making sure that I am caught up to date and that now we are to believe that it wasn't the common interests why you got together for and bonded over for a 3 year affair.  

We bonded over common interests but someone who’s happy and content in their marriage probably wouldn’t have “bonded with someone else over common interests”to begin with. 

[stillafool]

2 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

We bonded over common interests but someone who’s happy and content in their marriage probably wouldn’t have “bonded with someone else over common interests”to begin with. 

Lot's of people, even same sex people, bond over common interests but they all don't start having sex because of common interests.

Edited January 25, 2022 by stillafool

[kaylasummer]

16 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Well if they are still in school that tells me when she had them it was during a time when other arrangements could have been made other than a shot gun wedding because of pregancy if he wanted it.  Those kids were born during a time of single mothers and abortion.  He didn't have to marry her, he wanted to and she is only 5 years older.  If that.

She herself told me abortion wasn’t an option. He was also moving back to his home state upon completing his program and would not have seen his child. Both he and his xW told me his parents said “you need to marry her”. Both he and his xW also told me he never said ILY and that he was never in love with her. This is probably cliche as well, but I actually felt bad for him for being in a long marriage with someone you’re not connected with or in love with. However, he should have left years ago if he was so miserable. 

[ilikept]

On 12/9/2021 at 1:40 PM, kaylasummer said:

Has anyone dated a MM going through a divorce? I met MM a little over four years ago. We have everything in common, became the best of friends, and did everything together over the 1 1/2 yr EA and 2 yr PA. His family accepted me, we shared mutual friends, and I’ve truly felt he was the one. Fast forward to D day. It was a mess. He left but went back; I’ve already shared this, so I won’t go into detail. I was heartbroken and remained strong on NC since memorial weekend. 

I ran in to him recently at our mutual friends’ holiday party. He did and said some things that would melt anyone’s heart. They also filed for D,. I’m still shocked as his family are all very against D. We’ve had some pretty deep conversations since and he let me know he has been in love with me for years. He told his xW this after dday as well. To add to everything she did (Messaging my family/friends, etc.. I don’t blame her.. I may have too), she told his entire family this which may have been a good thing, as they all supported him.

We’ve agreed he has a lot going on right now and will be taking things extremely slow. Here is my fear: he cheated on his W with me (EA/PA) for 3 1/2 years!! I found out he had cheated when they were first married as well! It’s nauseating to think about. He says it wasn’t right with her and he knew that before they even married (they married for the wrong reason). That doesn’t ease my mind. I saw first hand how easy it was to forget about his W & family at home while spending evenings and weekends with me. I saw first hand how he lied to her without batting an eye. Is he capable of lying/cheating down the road? He says no, but I’m sure he told his xW the same. I filed for D years ago during our EA. I can’t imagine lying/cheating through a long term PA. Really struggling with this. 

 

 

Going back to the opening post,   the question posed was whether he can be trusted.     

The answer to that question is that he can be trusted to be the person he is.  

[kaylasummer]

2 hours ago, Eeejay said:

Would you accept those excuses, if you were on the other side? If not, then you shouldn't accept them (or be willing to enable them) now - from him, OR yourself.

I absolutely would not accept those excuses. I agree, our actions were not acceptable. My parents who have been happily married over 35 years (and still very much in love) have always done everything together. They don’t go out separately or put themselves in any type of situation that the other might not like. His parents have a very similar marriage of over 50 years. I want that type of relationship. From our conversations, that’s what he’s always wanted too. I know befriending each other in the first place was wrong. Thanks for the reality check. 

[kaylasummer]

4 minutes ago, S2B said:

you willingly stayed participating for 3 years.

You’re right. I talked to him about the guilt and tried to walk away so many times. Not only the guilt but the roller coaster of emotions that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. Yet, I still participated in the A. In hindsight, it actually disgusts me that I could do such a thing and that he could as well. I’m not proud of either of our behavior. That’s not who I am and not something I could ever participate in again. I know better now; If I could go back and make things better, I would. 

[kaylasummer]

21 minutes ago, S2B said:

If that’s the type of relationship you wish for - and given this MM history - i would wait and wait to marry him. You will need to see how he does with you long term after he’s not married.

he may never be the kind of guy that delivers a relationship similar to your parents - it’s not in his history that he would participate that way. With you or anyone.

 

 

His parents marriage is very similar to my parents as are his siblings. He’s shared with me that he had always longed for that type of connection that he never had in the past. Not rushing things, but I do think he’s capable of being a great partner from what he’s shown me recently as well. 
 

I guess I came here hoping to hear long term success stories to help ease my mind that “once a cheater, always a cheater” doesn’t always pertain, that there is hope for relationships that start as affairs. I’ve gotten a lot of MM bashing and some doses of reality. Its been eye opening and I appreciate it all, whether good or bad. 

[Sun Seeker]

OP you seem naive. I don't think the question should be if he will cheat again, but when.

I don't think you realise how a man's mind works. There are two types of men. One is a man that will never cheat and never does, period. The other type is that will cheat if the opportunity arises (and they can get away with it), and will keep doing so whenever the opportunity arises again. 

This guy cheated on his wife before with someone else and he did it again with you. He will do it again in the future, no doubt about that.

[Ha-ha]

6 hours ago, Sun Seeker said:

OP you seem naive. I don't think the question should be if he will cheat again, but when.

I don't think you realise how a man's mind works. There are two types of men. One is a man that will never cheat and never does, period. The other type is that will cheat if the opportunity arises (and they can get away with it), and will keep doing so whenever the opportunity arises again. 

This guy cheated on his wife before with someone else and he did it again with you. He will do it again in the future, no doubt about that.

Not sure if this is being heard though, as we'll just get replies about the poor heart or that he’s a very special man, unlike other MMs out there. 

[Starswillshine]

All I hear are excuses why he cheated on his wife and why that means he won't cheat in you. 

So are you prepared to be his babysitter, do every single thing with him, make sure to pick up on all his hobbies and every subject he is interested in? Because let me tell you what is ahead for you... when he leaves out that door to run errands, and you have calculated exactly how long it should take, you may even check traffic maps to see drive time, and when he isn't back in the timeframe it should be, you'll feel sick to your stomach. When all of a sudden, he seems to be watching YouTube videos about some new thing, you will stress about who turned him into this. You'll sit and watch every interaction he has. You will listen to every word he says to find something off. You'll be like all other BS's here trying to reconcile with a man who did not do any work to fix his own problems that led to him being a cheating scumbag. Sounds so lovely and romantic, huh? On the bright side, you will likely lose a lot of weight (I lost 30 lbs... didn't need to lose 1 lb). 

I wish you luck. I really do. But be wary. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Starswillshine

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

His parents marriage is very similar to my parents as are his siblings. He’s shared with me that he had always longed for that type of connection that he never had in the past. 

What you do know about him is he talks the talk but in his own life and marriage when he gets bored or the going gets tough, his go-to is cheating.

He "never had that connection" because he doesn't want it. He would rather be duplicitous and lie and cheat.

What your or his parents marriages are like is irrelevant. It's just painting pictures to distract you from the lack of character and integrity.

He's like a magician. He's got you focused on waving the cape so you're awed at the rabbit he pulls out of this hat and don't notice the tricks.

[BaileyB]

8 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

His parents marriage is very similar to my parents as are his siblings. He’s shared with me that he had always longed for that type of connection that he never had in the past.

He always had the option. 

If his marriage was really so bad that he never told the mother of his children that he loved her - he always had the option to divorce.

Sure, his parents told him to stay married and make it work. They should not have interfered. 

But look at that - D-day happens and things go to hell. His wife wants to work on the marriage, his affair partner walks away, it’s all a big rethink and when he goes back to his parents they say - “Son, we love you. You need to do whatever makes you happy.” Whoa - Is it possible that his parents would have been reasonable all along? Where is this barrier that has caused him to stay in his marriage for years and driven him to have extramarital relationships on the side?

Is it possible that it never existed, that it was just an excuse to explain his decision to go looking for a little “extra” attention - 

Turns out - he could have filed for divorce and had an honest discussion with his family - and it would have been just fine. He chose to cheat, because he lacked the courage to ask for what he wanted and tell his parents not to interfere in his marriage/life. What a shame, they have now offered their support to a son who has behaved badly, acted without character and integrity, brought dishonour to the family and the church… When all along - he had the option to live a life of integrity - he could have done the hard (but the right thing) and filed for divorce, without disrespecting his wife and his family by carrying on these relationships as an open secret. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

All I hear are excuses why he cheated on his wife and why that means he won't cheat in you. 

So are you prepared to be his babysitter, do every single thing with him, make sure to pick up on all his hobbies and every subject he is interested in? Because let me tell you what is ahead for you... when he leaves out that door to run errands, and you have calculated exactly how long it should take, you may even check traffic maps to see drive time, and when he isn't back in the timeframe it should be, you'll feel sick to your stomach. When all of a sudden, he seems to be watching YouTube videos about some new thing, you will stress about who turned him into this. You'll sit and watch every interaction he has. You will listen to every word he says to find something off. You'll be like all other BS's here trying to reconcile with a man who did not do any work to fix his own problems that led to him being a cheating scumbag. Sounds so lovely and romantic, huh? On the bright side, you will likely lose a lot of weight (I lost 30 lbs... didn't need to lose 1 lb). 

I wish you luck. I really do. But be wary. 

When you have a baby Kayla and you are home raising his children, you had best make sure his next office manager is a man. I too, am not sure how you will manage the anxiety. I would find that very difficult.

[ilikept]

I think I can bottomline what people are saying here -  he was good for what he was good for when you were having the affair.   He was good for a roll in the hay for someone else, when nothing else was expected of him.

as a husband and father - he sucks. 

If all you’re wanting out if him is a roll in the hay when the opportunity arises - he’s your man man.  He’s proven he is good for that.

but if you are wanting a faithful husband and father that will be there for you and you only and won’t be getting down with other women- you are barking up the wrong tree.  He has proven he is not good for that.

So can you trust him?  

Yes, you can trust him to do what he has been doing all along.