Dating MM as he goes through a divorce; can he be trusted after long term a?

[Ha-ha]

4 minutes ago, stillafool said:

You know Kayla I think you should read TamBuktu's thread.  You guys sound familiar and have a lot in common.

I was wondering where I have read this story before.
 

It is confusing when OP comes to this board and asks for opinion and get upset when the choir doesn’t sing from the same song sheets. And put up the arguments that posters do not know the whole story or background. Why waste our time if that’s the case?  why asks for opinion?  Especially in this case where OW gets the MM.  Shouldn’t OP live happily ever after now?
 

[kaylasummer]

59 minutes ago, Eeejay said:

He's failed the marriage test. Sure, you can give him a retake, and he might ace it - but are you willing to risk your heart and many good years of your life on it? You keep saying 'yeah yeah, I get it, no excuse for cheating' but then turn around and offer dozens of excuses for him. You're in conflict with yourself.

I was hoping to hear success stories, but the responses are hard to stomach. I believe him when he tells me I’m the love of his life. He’s told his friends, family, and my family this as well. My sibling sent a picture of me to him recently and he responded with “the love of my life.” I also believe him when he tells me he’s always wanted what his parents and siblings have. He’s played me songs that remind him of me that would melt anyones heart too..maybe he’s just charming like that, but he has my heart and I can’t break it again by walking away. 

A coworker of mine is married to an ex serial cheater. She didn’t know about his past until several months in and stuck with him. They’ve been together 7 years (he had a lot of the same excuses for his past infidelity). I feel like I can trust him, but knowing someone’s past is hard to come to terms with sometimes. 

[kaylasummer]

16 minutes ago, Berlin said:

I was wondering where I have read this story before.
 

It is confusing when OP comes to this board and asks for opinion and get upset when the choir doesn’t sing from the same song sheets. And put up the arguments that posters do not know the whole story or background. Why waste our time if that’s the case?  why asks for opinion?  Especially in this case where OW gets the MM.  Shouldn’t OP live happily ever after now?
 

I just checked out Tambuktu’s post. Interesting. I’ll read more later. 
 

Im not trying to waste anyones time by defending MM. Its just hard to read others bashing them not knowing all circumstances. I don’t agree with what he did in his marriage. It’s hard to stomach. However, a part of me understands how it can happen. 

[Ha-ha]

5 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

I just checked out Tambuktu’s post. Interesting. I’ll read more later. 
 

Im not trying to waste anyones time by defending MM. Its just hard to read others bashing them not knowing all circumstances. I don’t agree with what he did in his marriage. It’s hard to stomach. However, a part of me understands how it can happen. 

Of course we don’t know you or him and whatever circumstances that might absolve both of you from your guilt. That’s precisely the point. What you read as bashing is merely our take from the information you provided. What else can we do?  We don’t know you. 
 

But you know you and your choices and the circumstances of your choices. Why not own it and live happily with your MM?  I am not entitled to your explanation or answer but you don’t want to consider this at all, it seems. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Berlin

[Eeejay]

Quote

What he has done is who he IS! That’s what you aren’t acknowledging.

It's not like I think Batman should be a philosophical basis for how people live their lives lol, but it reminds me of that line from Batman Begins when someone says "It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you." The only way that the people around us can gauge what sort of people we are is by looking at our actions, because those are what ends up affecting others and the world around us. Not words, or wishes, or hypotheticals or 'plans'. As an analogy - you can claim that you really care about the environment, but if you don't recycle or do anything to reduce your carbon footprint, then your potential to care means nothing. Potential isn't good enough - people need to act according to their beliefs and convictions. If they act contrary to those convictions and then do everything possible to justify their actions, then the question becomes whether or not they even actually are the person that they think they are...

[BaileyB]

 

1 hour ago, kaylasummer said:

I believe him when he tells me I’m the love of his life. I also believe him when he tells me he’s always wanted what his parents and siblings have. He has my heart and I can’t break it again by walking away. 

A coworker of mine is married to an ex serial cheater. She didn’t know about his past until several months in and stuck with him. They’ve been together 7 years (he had a lot of the same excuses for his past infidelity). I feel like I can trust him, but knowing someone’s past is hard to come to terms with sometimes. 

Your decision is made.

As has been said, there are no guarantees in life. All any of us can do is gather information that will help us to determine whether a man is a good man who is worthy of our trust. If you have done your assessment and decided that you can trust him, that’s your decision. As was said above, own it. 

I don’t think that you trust him. I think you want to trust him. I think you want the love story so very badly…  But, I think your intuition is telling you not to trust this man and that’s why you are posting here, in search of some kind of reassurance.

What’s the worst that could happen - you marry this man and have his child and he cheats on you? What then - could you cope with that? If the answer is yes, then proceed. If the answer is no, it would absolutely destroy you, then you have a different decision to make. 

Whatever you decide, just know that there is risk here. There is risk in every relationship - there is more risk here given his past history. If you are strong enough to deal with whatever happens, there is no problem. If you think the benefit outweighs the risk, then proceed with caution… You don’t need permission. But, you will also get no guarantees. 
 

Edited January 25, 2022 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

5 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I was referring to friends/siblings not liking her.  I don’t think his parents knew a lot of that when they told him he needed to marry her, but they have grown not to like her over the years.
 

I have bought the story because his friends/siblings have shared it as well. It has helped me to understand a bit. It has NOT helped me to accept it. 

It isn't just them who grew to not like her but so did you.  You talk about the guilt you feel but your actions don't show that.  At one point you talked about MM tuckiing you in while his wife looked on because he was giving you support as a friend.  You repay her kindness by having sex with her husband in her cabin and bragging about your relationship with her kids, friends and in-laws, then scheming to break up her marriage.   It takes a special kind of person to do that.  No, MM is definitely not to be trusted; but he doesn't deserve all the blame.

[Starswillshine]

I don't understand the reliance on the words "love of my life." As if that is some sort of sign that he will not cheat, he is loyal, and since he supposedly never told his wife he loved her, it must mean that he will never treat you this way.

It is common on these boards to regurgitate words that the MM say as if some concrete evidence that he REALLY loves you and would never lie or cheat, but..... REALLY???? 

I find it extremely impossible that he never told his wife he loved her. They were married for over a decade? It seems the story keeps changing because you want so bad to believe that this will all work out and you will rode off in the sunset together forever and ever. Because you are better than his ex wife. He cheated because she is just not the right fit, but you, YOU are everything he needs. But obviously, you fear this or else you would not be here. 

The issue many people are seeing here is that instead of recognizing his character flaws, the both of you deflect and place blame elsewhere besides him. This does not bode well for your relationship. If he is not willing to accept he is the cause of this, he will not be able to correct the flaw.... so when the next pretty thing comes around and you aren't there to babysit.... you'll be just as his wife. Someone he didn't share EVERYTHING with. 

[kaylasummer]

15 minutes ago, stillafool said:

It isn't just them who grew to not like her but so did you.  You talk about the guilt you feel but your actions don't show that.  At one point you talked about MM tuckiing you in while his wife looked on because he was giving you support as a friend.  You repay her kindness by having sex with her husband in her cabin and bragging about your relationship with her kids, friends and in-laws, then scheming to break up her marriage.   It takes a special kind of person to do that.  No, MM is definitely not to be trusted; but he doesn't deserve all the blame.

Well I guess I deserve that, although we were friends at the time I had stayed with them. I know made the betrayal all the worse. She trusted me. I had no intent during our friendship to ever go any further. I was so ashamed when it did that I couldn’t face her. I did not want to break up their marriage and I did experience extreme guilt throughout,..the reason I kept trying to end it. Had I not worked with him and not seen him every day, I would have walked away. It’s easier said than done when I had to work closely with him every day. I was single at that point and leaving a job without something the same or better lined up wasn’t an option.

When I finally did walk away from him and leave my job, i also requested NC. I did not want to break up his family, the guilt was too much. If you don’t think it’s heartbreaking being on the other end, it was the hardest thing I went through and walking away destroyed me. I did not expect that he’d file for divorce a few months after. I was shocked actually because that’s a huge no in his family. 

[BaileyB]

19 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

The issue many people are seeing here is that instead of recognizing his character flaws, the both of you deflect and place blame elsewhere besides him.

No - it’s his parent’s fault because they forced him to marry and would not permit divorce. it’s his wife’s fault because she got pregnant and she was not a good person - he lost respect for her! Kayla knows more the story and that allows her to understand the reasons why he cheated…

The fact remains, there are men who cheat and others who would not cheat - under any circumstance. He is a cheater who  blames shifts and does not take responsibility for his own decisions. 

Be forewarned. When people show you who they really are, believe them. 

 

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

I had no intent during our friendship to ever go any further.

You had no intent but you didn’t stop it. 

Your husband, the man who says you are the love of your life, says he had no intent to have sex with the beautiful physician he met on the plane on the way to a conference - how does that make you feel? Was it inevitable? Or, did he had the opportunity - the responsibility - to say no. This is not who I am. I will do do this to my wife. 

[kaylasummer]

56 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

 

Your decision is made.

As has been said, there are no guarantees in life. All any of us can do is gather information that will help us to determine whether a man is a good man who is worthy of our trust. If you have done your assessment and decided that you can trust him, that’s your decision. As was said above, own it. 

I don’t think that you trust him. I think you want to trust him. I think you want the love story so very badly…  But, I think your intuition is telling you not to trust this man and that’s why you are posting here, in search of some kind of reassurance.

What’s the worst that could happen - you marry this man and have his child and he cheats on you? What then - could you cope with that? If the answer is yes, then proceed. If the answer is no, it would absolutely destroy you, then you have a different decision to make. 

Whatever you decide, just know that there is risk here. There is risk in every relationship - there is more risk here given his past history. If you are strong enough to deal with whatever happens, there is no problem. If you think the benefit outweighs the risk, then proceed with caution… You don’t need permission. But, you will also get no guarantees. 
 

I know he didn’t tell her ILY because she told me after dday. She said he refused to ever kiss her too; he told her from the beginning he doesn’t kiss. She was adamant that I tell her whether he ever said ILY or kissed me. I told she needed to talk to him. At that point I felt like the absolute worst person in the world.
 

She asked later on that I give their family a chance and that’s not possible unless I walk away. I not only broke my heart and left him, requesting NC, but left a job with nothing lined up as well. I felt like that was the right thing and that by doing the right thing would take away the guilt but it didn’t. I never in a million years expected he would divorce a few months later. I felt awful finding that out as well. He has told me it’s not my fault, it’s his, and he should have done it years ago. I acknowledge my part in that and it’s not a good feeling as that’s what everyone seems to think.

[kaylasummer]

6 minutes ago, S2B said:

Have you asked that he do extensive therapy every week for a year?

what have you asked him to do so that the chances of him cheating AGAIN are less concerning?

if he hasn’t changed who he IS in his core - he’s will cheat!

He told me he had done a lot of self reflecting when his marriage ended and learned from what caused their problems so that he doesn’t repeat any of it in our relationship. I’ve talked to him about my guilt as well. He told me it’s not my fault, it’s his although I do know that’s not true. I feel like him acknowledging it was his fault snd that he should have left several years ago is a start. 

[kaylasummer]

46 minutes ago, S2B said:

My exH I was with for 27 years remarried after I divorced him for cheating.

he didn’t marry his OW.

I feel sorry for the gal he married next - she got the same selfish cheater I got!

that’s why I say he needs professional help. You want a BETTER man than he’s been in his past.

I’m sorry he put you through that. My ex was a narcissist cheater, so I understand that kind of pain. We were separated for a long time over it and starting to work it out when I first met MM. I was ready to file at that time anyway and MM was a friend there for me through that time. My ex went on to marry his AP (they dated before we even met and on/off when we were together). They’re still happy (or at least put on a show). My divorce was the other hardest thing I’d ever gone through; he was my first and I thought we’d be together forever. I was at my  lowest point on top of naive/vulnerable during my friendship with MM. His friendship and support helped me through it. I honestly not in a million years ever thought it would become an A. However, as I write this (in hindsight), I can see that was a recipe for disaster. 

[BaileyB]

Kayla, you did what is common for many people, particularly women, who are in a bad marriage - you “monkey branched” from one relationship to another. Unfortunately for you, you left one unhealthy relationship/partner for another unhealthy relationship/partner - albeit, in a different way.

Your ex-husband may still appear happy to those friends and acquaintances who are not privy to the reality of the situation, but you know the truth - a narcissistic cheater will have as much ability/success with a healthy marriage as an astronaut trying to grow houseplants on the moon. 

ETA - have you ever been to counselling? Listening to your story, there is trauma in that former relationship. Counselling would be a very good idea for you - particularly as you start a new relationship/make a big life decision. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

8 hours ago, Eeejay said:

Some people aren't cut out for that kind of commitment - and you know what? That's okay. It's not for everyone, marriage. But in order for each partner to feel secure in the marriage, especially if they're building a life together with kids and shared debt and all that fun grown up stuff, a person HAS to be able to go through a rough patch (depression, post-partum issues, midlife crisis, periods of grief over deaths or job loss or whatever) without worrying that their partner is gonna respond by betraying them and having an affair with someone else because they're a big bummer and not fun anymore. Who wants to live with that fear and insecurity?

I agree generally. The flip side is that people change over time. Someone may have little interest in cheating in their 20's but then go on to do so in their 30's or vice versa. Reality is that anyone can cheat if they become unhappy (or "just because"). You mention vows and commitment - the exact same thing is true of divorce if a person becomes unhappy (or simply changes). That's also breaking a vow and another less-than-ideal response (from the perspective of "trust" and lifetime monogamy) e.g. to a sustained rough patch, a partner who has become problematic, or simply an inner change of genuinely wanting something different.

Reality is that many if not most people are essentially serial monogamists - civilization attempts to put the gloss and promise/expectation of lifetime monogamy over that with vows and so forth, and with very mixed results as the prevalence of infidelity and divorce show.

At any rate, I stand by my original assertions for OP about keeping him happy, etc as her best option if she wants to go forward with this. They aren't wrong or bad advice. And certainly not bothering to keep one's partner happy is a recipe for problems, particularly if the situation has a tenuous start. There's never any guarantees and there aren't with a "non-cheater" either. Feeling secure is nice, but it's essentially an illusion (although there is such a thing as paying attention to and "reading" your partner.)

Of course, IF your MM is (actually) a narcissist or similar Kayla, then my advice is to run. And if you are filled with guilt over how this began as an affair, then that probably isn't a positive start to the relationship either and IMO would not bode well.

Edited January 26, 2022 by mark clemson

[Ha-ha]

8 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

was single at that point and leaving a job without something the same or better lined up wasn’t an option

People do this every day. A single mother running from abuse, is an example. 
as I said before. Choice.  YOUR choice. 

I don’t know you and your whole circumstances but from what is presented here, you are no angel yourself. The lack of accountability (and the way you skirt the topic) is a huge tell.  It seems that you know what you did was wrong but you  want your redemption from a bunch of strangers. Not sure why. 
 

@BaileyB up there said it best. Your decision is made. Go in peace with your MM. You did back-stab a sister, broke up her marriage and stole her husband.  It’s not OK but own it and move on. Be better is all you can do.  I truly wish you well in your new chapter. 
 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Berlin

[Milly May June]

It is concerning that you are jumping from one unhealthy relationship to another. Gently, you need to learn who you are that is not a part of a couple.

If MM really loves you he will support you if you decide to take a year of separation and invest that time into getting to know yourself better and what you really want in a relationship going forward. Preferably with a help of a therapist. If he is klingy and does not want to let that happend than you will know he puts his needs and wants ahead of yours. And that will answer your primary question: people who cheat on their SO's tend to put their needs and wants ahead of their partners. 

Also to debuke the 'unhappy in my marriage' narrative. Okey let's say he was/is unhappy. He is showing you that his way of coping and facing ebbs and flows in a relationship is to cheat. In my opinion if you have survived difficulties and stressors in life as a coupe with respect for your partner and integrity, that to me is the type of love that should be relationship goals. Not the first years of new relationship energy type of love that brings strong emotions but does not stand the test of time. 

In his marriage your MM did not even TRY to make the marriage work. He had his 'unhappy marriage' label stuck on it and chose to cheat. Not to say that he is not in love with you and that things will not work out. Just be very catious. Ask yourself what would he likely do if you developed a severe health problems or if you had two small toddlers with tantrums running around the hous? Key question: how does he cope with feeling UNHAPPY?

 

[Crazelnut]

17 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I was hoping to hear success stories, but the responses are hard to stomach. I believe him when he tells me I’m the love of his life. He’s told his friends, family, and my family this as well. My sibling sent a picture of me to him recently and he responded with “the love of my life.” I also believe him when he tells me he’s always wanted what his parents and siblings have. He’s played me songs that remind him of me that would melt anyones heart too..maybe he’s just charming like that, but he has my heart and I can’t break it again by walking away.

Do you hear yourself? This is worse than a teen romance novel. It's just laughable. He can SAY anything he wants, but the fact remains that he is a serial cheater. He said all kinds of things to his wife too. Significantly, he told her he would be faithful. He lies, quite easily. Just acknowledge that you *choose* to believe his BS, cross you fingers, and accept that he will most likely cheat on you too. We cannot tell you what you want to hear, and deep down you know we're right. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Crazelnut

[pepperbird2]

18 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I was hoping to hear success stories, but the responses are hard to stomach. I believe him when he tells me I’m the love of his life. He’s told his friends, family, and my family this as well. My sibling sent a picture of me to him recently and he responded with “the love of my life.” I also believe him when he tells me he’s always wanted what his parents and siblings have. He’s played me songs that remind him of me that would melt anyones heart too..maybe he’s just charming like that, but he has my heart and I can’t break it again by walking away. 

A coworker of mine is married to an ex serial cheater. She didn’t know about his past until several months in and stuck with him. They’ve been together 7 years (he had a lot of the same excuses for his past infidelity). I feel like I can trust him, but knowing someone’s past is hard to come to terms with sometimes. 

On OP,

You're trying so hard to make this right in your mind. You think you're trying  to convince US that this relationship is okay, but it sounds very much to me like you're trying to convince yourself to ignore your inner voice.
That's your gut screaming at you that this is wrong, wrong wrong for you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be having this crisis of conscience. Who cares what a bunch of strangers online think.. We don't have to live with this and try and make it okay. You do.
How many more excuses will you make for him?

[Happy Lemming]

18 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I was hoping to hear success stories...

And you very well may have a success story.  We have no idea what went on behind closed doors.  He can say one thing, she can say something else, and the truth may be somewhere in the middle.

I remember dating this one woman that used sex as a weapon to attempt to manipulate me.  She treated me like a trained seal, jump through this hoop and you'll get a treat.  To our friends, we looked like a nice, happy, normal couple, behind closed doors I was angry & miserable.

I'm not saying that is what happened in his situation, but you just never know.  People don't (always) want to admit what they've done or what they put up with. 

One of my more successful relationships (in my youth) was a woman that knew how to take care of her man and keep him happy.  There was no reason to go out and search for bologna, when I had steak at home.

You may very well be providing him that happiness he has been seeking.  Only time will tell.

 

[kaylasummer]

17 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

obviously, you fear this or else you would not be here. 

True, or I wouldn’t have started this post. I lived a very safe sheltered life before this, so naive that I couldn’t imagine how an A could happen. Divorce, affairs, etc. were not part of our vocabulary. 

I do not in any way think I’m better than his xW. I have always been very humble, no one is better than anyone. I don’t think MM feels superior to his xW either. Yes they were from two different worlds, but it was more of a “getting into a situation with someone he barely knew or felt a connection with and rushing into a M for the wrong reasons, regretting it shortly after.” I agree. He made his bed. He should have divorced her early on if that were the case. I do know he felt extremely guilty after his first A early on and told her. They worked it out after so there must have been some love there. XW did share a lot with me about their relationship, how they met, feeling like his family never accepted her, etc. He’s confirmed pretty much everything she’s said in various conversations, so I know he’s been honest with me. I do have a problem with how he treated his xW vs divorcing her early on or I wouldn’t be here. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by kaylasummer

[BaileyB]

32 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

I don’t think MM feels superior to his xW either.

And yet, he and his family treated her like she was not worthy - 

They questioned the parentage of the oldest child. There were comments made about how he delivered her from the trailer park. His family felt that she was a gold digger who spent his money recklessly. She said she felt the disapproval from his family. And, he cheated on her worth a woman that she trusted and brought into her home. 

Those are not the behaviours of a man who respects his wife and believes her to be “equal.” There was an obvious power differential in this relationship - you can call it “incompatibility” if you like, but there was an obvious power differential and a lack of respect that suggests that she was somehow inferior and not worthy. 
 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

 

32 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

I do not in any way think I’m better than his xW.

No, you just think you are more compatible with the man. You are “the chosen one.” In a relationship where you have serious doubts and hesitations, it must make you feel more confident to hear his family and your friends say that they like you (more) and that you make him happier (than his wife ever made him). And as such, because you are more compatible and you are “the chosen one,” you are superior… You win. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

20 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I was hoping to hear success stories

Yes, but they wont help you. Their relationship is not your relationship. Their married man is not your married man.