Dating MM as he goes through a divorce; can he be trusted after long term a?

[elaine567]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

When it's over, he'll want to distance himself from everything in that period including you.

This is the potential risk you run. This was a work affair, he basically grabbed onto the nearest available and willing woman he could find. You 'saved' him.

But once he is divorced, his options will increase, his confidence will grow  and he may no longer feel he needs you any longer. He may then feel he has outgrown you and go looking for a "better" woman.

The OW can be a temporary fix, the one to hold his hand as he navigates change.

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

his wife is not wrong for telling people. This happened to HER and it is her darn right to explain to people that this divorce was caused by his infidelity. You don't want anyone to know things you do, then don't do it. Period. So just stop focusing on that. Also, in marriage, all money is money of the marriage. Thus half his retirement is hers. As is all other assets. Nothing unfair about her asking for that. And 100% if he made the bulk of the money, she should get alimony. There is no reason that she and the kids should suffer and have to reduce lifestyle because he couldn't keep his member in his pants or be a big boy and address issues in the marriage and work to fix it versus sticking his member into another woman. He made a commitment, and he broke it. That is on him, and he needs to do what he can to at least make it so she doesn't further suffer financially. If you or he is complaining about this, you are quite selfish. How much more do you want this woman to suffer????? 

I agree. He was well aware of what his financial obligations would be to her and has accepted that. She wants more and he’s giving in to get it over with, although his attorney is advising against that. Their kids are almost young adults, but they agreed to 50/50. He will still have child support as that’s determined by income and evening it out. He is perfectly fine with that even though they are with him a majority of the time. He said his kids will never go without. He has said his major regret in life is not doing this years ago.

[kaylasummer]

16 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

This is the potential risk you run. This was a work affair, he basically grabbed onto the nearest available and willing woman he could find. You 'saved' him.

But once he is divorced, his options will increase, his confidence will grow  and he may no longer feel he needs you any longer. He may then feel he has outgrown you and go looking for a "better" woman.

The OW can be a temporary fix, the one to hold his hand as he navigates change.

True. I know this sounds extremely cliche, but it was a lot more than just a work A. It was a long term friendship, turned EA before anything. We did everything together, so many memories! We have that foundation, mutual best friends, and too many “coincidences” that it feels like “the one” kind of connection, which he’s said as well. 
 

Edited to add: we’ve even gotten our parents together while his parents at their vacation home in my home town recently. They instantly bonded; we joke that they are now BFFs. Too many things have lined. There’s so much more but again, TMI.

Edited January 27, 2022 by kaylasummer

[vla1120]

4 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

True. I know this sounds extremely cliche, but it was a lot more than just a work A. It was a long term friendship, turned EA before anything. We did everything together, so many memories! We have that foundation, mutual best friends, and too many “coincidences” that it feels like “the one” kind of connection, which he’s said as well. 

I am learning more about the affair that was happening at the end of my marriage.  She thought the same as you, they were kindred spirits, he felt about her like he's never felt about another woman, they were best friends, soulmates, yada, yada, yada. Yet, as soon as I announced I was filing for divorce, before I even moved out of the house, he was online dating and found another woman - the girlfriend he currently lives with. His "soulmate" he was seeing at the end of our marriage was kicked to the curb without as much as a "thank you, ma'am." 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, kaylasummer said:

Their kids are almost young adults, but they agreed to 50/50. He will still have child support as that’s determined by income and evening it out. He is perfectly fine with that even though they are with him a majority of the time.

The things you don’t say Kayla, the things you imply, tell us how you and your MM feel about this divorce. 

We have never felt superior, but…
Consider this - she was with a drug addict when she got pregnant with MM’s child but we don’t know if it’s his child because we don’t trust her and don’t respect her given the fact that she is from the trailer park…

He is aware of his financial obligations but…
She is being unreasonable and asking for more than she deserves and that is not fair!! It’s his money - he earned it. She spends money like it’s nothing on frivolous things like purses and jewelry - his family has always thought she is a gold digger. 

They have agreed to 50/50 custody and he will pay child support but…
His kids are with him all the time, so that’s not fair but he will do what is required. 

It’s hard to listen to this - it’s like a backhanded compliment - “she is a good woman but now, I’m going to put her down and tell you what we really think about her…”

To be fair, he can’t pay her enough for the pain that he has inflicted on the woman! The blame and excuses and lack of empathy is stunning! She is the victim here - not you, and not this MM. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, kaylasummer said:

We have that foundation

Your foundation has a huge crack - two of them actually. Neither one of you are a healthy or safe partner for the other. 

[kaylasummer]

35 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

The things you don’t say Kayla, the things you imply, tell us how you and your MM feel about this divorce. 

We have never felt superior, but…
Consider this - she was with a drug addict when she got pregnant with MM’s child but we don’t know if it’s his child because we don’t trust her and don’t respect her given the fact that she is from the trailer park…

He is aware of his financial obligations but…
She is being unreasonable and asking for more than she deserves and that is not fair!! It’s his money - he earned it. She spends money like it’s nothing on frivolous things like purses and jewelry - his family has always thought she is a gold digger. 

They have agreed to 50/50 custody and he will pay child support but…
His kids are with him all the time, so that’s not fair but he will do what is required. 

It’s hard to listen to this - it’s like a backhanded compliment - “she is a good woman but now, I’m going to put her down and tell you what we really think about her…”

To be fair, he can’t pay her enough for the pain that he has inflicted on the woman! The blame and excuses and lack of empathy is stunning! She is the victim here - not you, and not this MM. 

I see how it can come across that way. I’ve always felt like she was the victim and I’ve always felt the guilt/empathy. I should not have mentioned the trailer park or her ex comment but those were her words and I can’t delete it. Recent events have probably shifted my thinking a bit and some of the MM comments here have caused me to defend him.

One example: she showed up at my home a few months after I had requested NC. I opened the front door and she proceeded past me yelling his name and “I know you’re here” as she went through my home, through everything looking for him. I watched on, in shock as it was happening. I hugged her, let her break down to me after, and cried with her. It killed me to see the pain we caused someone else.  I later found out he had been staying with our mutual best friends. 

There are so many things I can’t share, so many things that have happened recently (TMI) that have probably made me come across in a way I don’t mean to. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by kaylasummer
TMI

[S2B]

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's ok. Assets are divided in divorce and since they've been married a long time and have kids, her attorney will come up with proposals and so will his.

Ultimately the division of assets is determined by the courts. So he's just feeding you the typical "she's taking me to the cleaners"  story.

Of course your affair will fuel this in her favor. He is focused on his divorce and needs a crutch. When it's over, he'll want to distance himself from everything in  that period, including you.

Proceed with caution.  

And this is part of why you want him doing counseling for at least a year every week.

So he has a professional guiding him through a traumatic period in his life and learning more about how to be accountable for how he contributed to the outcome…and how to change that person he’s been in the past.

[S2B]

2 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

True. I know this sounds extremely cliche, but it was a lot more than just a work A. It was a long term friendship, turned EA before anything. We did everything together, so many memories! We have that foundation, mutual best friends, and too many “coincidences” that it feels like “the one” kind of connection, which he’s said as well. 
 

This is called grooming. Look it up. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by S2B

[S2B]

Did he move out yet? Where is he living now? Has he established a mew residence for himself yet? 

[kaylasummer]

2 minutes ago, S2B said:

Did he move out yet? Where is he living now? Has he established a mew residence for himself yet? 

Quite awhile ago during our NC, yes.. and yes.

[S2B]

Does he have his kids 50% of the time now?

is his new residence set up with bedrooms for his kids?

Edited January 27, 2022 by S2B

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

The things you don’t say Kayla, the things you imply, tell us how you and your MM feel about this divorce. 

We have never felt superior, but…
Consider this - she was with a drug addict when she got pregnant with MM’s child but we don’t know if it’s his child because we don’t trust her and don’t respect her given the fact that she is from the trailer park…

He is aware of his financial obligations but…
She is being unreasonable and asking for more than she deserves and that is not fair!! It’s his money - he earned it. She spends money like it’s nothing on frivolous things like purses and jewelry - his family has always thought she is a gold digger. 

They have agreed to 50/50 custody and he will pay child support but…
His kids are with him all the time, so that’s not fair but he will do what is required. 

It’s hard to listen to this - it’s like a backhanded compliment - “she is a good woman but now, I’m going to put her down and tell you what we really think about her…”

To be fair, he can’t pay her enough for the pain that he has inflicted on the woman! The blame and excuses and lack of empathy is stunning! She is the victim here - not you, and not this MM. 

I could be wrong, but this is an example of the triangulation that often goes on in affairs. I really believe this is because most people  don't like the idea they are actively choosing to hurt someone else for their own personal gain. They have to believe the person somehow deserved it, otherwise, what does that say about them? It also creates a bond between the AP and OW/OM. The big, bad wifey or hubby at home is so awful so demanding, so controlling that the poor WS had no choice but to cheat. That also lets the WS off the hook-again, it's not their fault, it's the situation.
I get it- we all want to believe the best about ourselves and those we love. In the op's situation, I wouldn't ever trust this guy. He doesn't have an issue with cheating, his family doesn't have an issue with it, his friends don't and event the OP doesn't ( or she wouldn't be in an affair). If this is what he does he she knows he's looking, what in heck does he do when she's not?

I also find  it troubling that the OP's parents (according to her) met his parents and they get along really well. maybe it's just me, but if one of my daughters came to me and told me she was seeing a married man, that married man wouldn't ever be invited to darken my doorstep and I'd have zero interest in  meeting his parents. if she asked my advice, I would tell her kick him to the curb. I care about her and wouldn't want to see her hurt, and there's too much potential for that if she was with a married man. I also don't see it as a moral choice- it's one I could not support.

The only way I think this would ever work over the long term is if the OP agrees to an open relationship, as if she thinks his family won't be just as supportive of him cheating on her when he feels she's no longer enough, she may well be in for a nasty surprise. I wonder what excuse she'll give his parents the next time?

[pepperbird2]

38 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

I could be wrong, but this is an example of the triangulation that often goes on in affairs. I really believe this is because most people  don't like the idea they are actively choosing to hurt someone else for their own personal gain. They have to believe the person somehow deserved it, otherwise, what does that say about them? It also creates a bond between the AP and OW/OM. The big, bad wifey or hubby at home is so awful so demanding, so controlling that the poor WS had no choice but to cheat. That also lets the WS off the hook-again, it's not their fault, it's the situation.
I get it- we all want to believe the best about ourselves and those we love. In the op's situation, I wouldn't ever trust this guy. He doesn't have an issue with cheating, his family doesn't have an issue with it, his friends don't and event the OP doesn't ( or she wouldn't be in an affair). If this is what he does he she knows he's looking, what in heck does he do when she's not?

I also find  it troubling that the OP's parents (according to her) met his parents and they get along really well. maybe it's just me, but if one of my daughters came to me and told me she was seeing a married man, that married man wouldn't ever be invited to darken my doorstep and I'd have zero interest in  meeting his parents. if she asked my advice, I would tell her kick him to the curb. I care about her and wouldn't want to see her hurt, and there's too much potential for that if she was with a married man. I also don't see it as a moral choice- it's one I could not support.

The only way I think this would ever work over the long term is if the OP agrees to an open relationship, as if she thinks his family won't be just as supportive of him cheating on her when he feels she's no longer enough, she may well be in for a nasty surprise. I wonder what excuse she'll give his parents the next time?

sorry for the typo . the last line should read " I wonder what excuse he'll give his parents the next time?"

[BaileyB]

46 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

I could be wrong, but this is an example of the triangulation that often goes on in affairs. I really believe this is because most people  don't like the idea they are actively choosing to hurt someone else for their own personal gain. They have to believe the person somehow deserved it, otherwise, what does that say about them? It also creates a bond between the AP and OW/OM. The big, bad wifey or hubby at home is so awful so demanding, so controlling that the poor WS had no choice but to cheat. That also lets the WS off the hook-again, it's not their fault, it's the situation.
I get it- we all want to believe the best about ourselves and those we love.

How many times has Kayla said - “I know the situation, and I understand…” why he did the things he did. 

I agree with you pepperbird, we do want to believe the best about ourselves and frankly, those we chose to love. It’s much as Kayla says she feels guilt over the situation and empathy for the wife, I don’t know that she is truly capable of going all the way there. Because - if she did, it would be really hard to feel good about herself and this relationship. So instead, we get works “I feel guilt, but… this is why he was justified to have a relationship with me and this is why we are meant to be together.” As you said - she deserved it. And, we deserve our happy ending. 

I wonder how the fact that Kayla’s husband cheated on her has played into this decision. I’m sure some women who have lived such an experience would make a decision to absolutely never hurt another woman in that same way. While others, we see it often on this site, will go on to find their own MM. In this case, Kayla hasn’t shared much about how it felt to be betrayed by her husband - which makes me wonder if she has done some introspection and heal this trauma. But more so, I wonder it normalized extramarital relationships for Kayla - she doesn’t respect the boundaries of his marriage because her husband didn’t respect the boundaries of her own marriage. Perhaps it just hasn’t been shared, but there is a lack of outrage related to her own betrayal and a certain kind of expectant resignation related to the new relationship - we met, it just happened, now he will divorce, and the wife can just deal with it - take her money and leave us to our happy ending… 

46 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

The only way I think this would ever work over the long term is if the OP agrees to an open relationship

Some people certainly do go on to form relationships that stand the test of time but I don’t see that happening here. His explanation of “My marriage just wasn’t a good match, but I love you and I promise I won’t do it again” would not be enough for me. That has the same depth of reasoning as a preschooler going to time out, “thinking about his behavior” for a few minutes, telling you that he is sorry and promising to never hit again - until they get frustrated and hit the next child that angered them. I think there are unrealistic expectations here and a real lack of insight and accountability. Maybe I’m wrong, and you are (im)perfectly suited for each other, only time will tell - 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by BaileyB

[kaylasummer]

55 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

I also find  it troubling that the OP's parents (according to her) met his parents and they get along really well. maybe it's just me, but if one of my daughters came to me and told me she was seeing a married man, that married man wouldn't ever be invited to darken my doorstep and I'd have zero interest in  meeting his parents. if she asked my advice, I would tell her kick him to the curb.

There is so much more to on our parent’s involvement. MM and I took my mom to lunch during our friendship/EA. My mom loved him, but talked to me after to let me know it’s not a good idea to befriend a MM. Ever.. I assured her he was one of my best friends, his W was fine with it, he respected me, and nothing would ever happen. She asked around about him because his family spent a lot of time in our hometown and everyone loved him/them, so it was dropped. When I finally opened up to my mom after they were told (dday), she blamed me for getting involved. It wouldn’t have started had I listened; I deserve that!

His parents got to know me over the years when they’d stop by the office on their way to my hometown. We instantly bonded. They always wanted to talk to me. MM would joke with them that they only stopped to see me, not their son,.. that they loved me more. They didn’t know about the PA until xW told them after dday as well. 

Not that any of this matters but Ive had a lot of heart to hearts with our moms in recent months and I think knowing each others parents throughout helped both our parents to better understand. They were not ok with the behavior, but what do they do.. accept it or terminate the relationship with their son/daughter. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by kaylasummer

[BaileyB]

Parents want to see their children be happy. They can support you, while still feeling very conflicted about your relationship. 

7 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

She started asking around about him because he spent a lot of time in our hometown and everyone loved him, so it was dropped.

Sure, but they don’t really know him. They know the image that he presents to the world. That’s not a true or complete reflection of the man - 

Does your mom know that you are not his only extramarital affair partner? 

[kaylasummer]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Parents want to see their children be happy. They can support you, while still feeling very conflicted about your relationship. 

Sure, but they don’t really know him. They know the image that he presents to the world. That’s not a true or complete reflection of the man - 

Does your mom know that you are not his only extramarital affair partner? 

We’ve had a lot of heart to hearts, so yes. Getting to know him better has helped my parents grow to really like him. His parents were informed by xW as well.

[Wiseman2]

42 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

So it’s either accept it and have a relationship with their son/daughter or not have their son/daughter in their lives!

Have your parents threatened to disown you?

Wasn't your ex cheating? Didn't you start leaning on this married man when you were in the throes of divorce?

It's doubtful he will choose you over his parents. 

[kaylasummer]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Have your parents threatened to disown you?

Wasn't your ex cheating? Didn't you start leaning on this married man when you were in the throes of divorce?

It's doubtful he will choose you over his parents. 

Yes my ex and I were separated a long time, just agreed to try when I met MM, although I was ready to file anyway. 
Our parents were not ok with MM and my behavior but have accepted.

[kaylasummer]

2 hours ago, S2B said:

Does he have his kids 50% of the time now?

is his new residence set up with bedrooms for his kids?

Over 50% and yes

[6ix]

Thread reopened after cleanup. We will no longer be tolerating breaches of conduct in this thread. Members will be banned. 

[pepperbird2]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:28 PM, kaylasummer said:

There is so much more to on our parent’s involvement. MM and I took my mom to lunch during our friendship/EA. My mom loved him, but talked to me after to let me know it’s not a good idea to befriend a MM. Ever.. I assured her he was one of my best friends, his W was fine with it, he respected me, and nothing would ever happen. She asked around about him because his family spent a lot of time in our hometown and everyone loved him/them, so it was dropped. When I finally opened up to my mom after they were told (dday), she blamed me for getting involved. It wouldn’t have started had I listened; I deserve that!

His parents got to know me over the years when they’d stop by the office on their way to my hometown. We instantly bonded. They always wanted to talk to me. MM would joke with them that they only stopped to see me, not their son,.. that they loved me more. They didn’t know about the PA until xW told them after dday as well. 

Not that any of this matters but Ive had a lot of heart to hearts with our moms in recent months and I think knowing each others parents throughout helped both our parents to better understand. They were not ok with the behavior, but what do they do.. accept it or terminate the relationship with their son/daughter. 

Read the last line of what you wrote and really think about that.

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, pepperbird2 said:

Read the last line of what you wrote and really think about that.

Exactly. That is in response to those saying “his family supported the A.” It is not something we shared with our parents until heart to heart conversations after dday.

 

Our mutual friends did not “support it” either. We introduced his friend to mine during our friendship. Their relationship progressed and they eventually married. They knew MM and I were friends. They suspected more as time went on. I opened up to my friend about feelings developing when asked. They had no clue it had become a PA until quite some time when I broke down crying to them one evening MM had left for home. They were actually upset with MM and told him he needed to do his W a favor and divorce. They were also upset seeing what the A was doing to me. They said he needed to do the right thing… and then dday happened. They won’t admit to it, but I’ve often wondered if our friends may have somehow let her know, tired of seeing what it was doing to all involved.

Edited January 29, 2022 by kaylasummer
Grammar/spelling

[Daliah]

1 hour ago, kaylasummer said:

Exactly. That is in response to those saying “his family supported the A.” It is not something we shared with our parents until heart to heart conversations after dday.

 

Our mutual friends did not “support it” either. We introduced his friend to mine during our friendship. Their relationship progressed and they eventually married. They knew MM and I were friends. They suspected more as time went on. I opened up to my friend about feelings developing when asked. They had no clue it had become a PA until quite some time when I broke down crying to them one evening MM had left for home. They were actually upset with MM and told him he needed to do his W a favor and divorce. They were also upset seeing what the A was doing to me. They said he needed to do the right thing… and then dday happened. They won’t admit to it, but I’ve often wondered if our friends may have somehow let her know, tired of seeing what it was doing to all involved.

The problem with involving friends in this tumultuous situation is that they often find that level of deceit difficult to keep secret, especially with  a conscience … many years ago friends of mine were headed toward divorce.  While trying to remain impartial,  the situation became untenable when one of them revealed that he was involved with another woman (logistically made easier to keep that secret as he worked abroad for weeks at a time) .. I resented the fact that he had now burdened me with that information and was expecting me (although it was never verbalised) to keep his filthy secrets for him..I couldn’t sleep … I told him it was unfair to expect me to face his wife in the knowledge of what he’d revealed to me and say nothing. He’d put me in an impossible predicament and he needed to tell his wife.  

He promised me he would but of course he didn’t, so I did the next time I saw her. He called me a few choice things and never spoke to me again.  Don’t expect people you call friends to keep those dirty secrets.  Affairs destroy everything they touch….