Dating MM as he goes through a divorce; can he be trusted after long term a?

[BaileyB]

Back to pepperbird’s comment above, I believe she may have been suggesting that you think about the position in which you placed your parents. What does it say exactly when you have put your parents in the position where their choices are - compromise their own morals/ethics to support their child or terminate their relationship with their children. 

[kaylasummer]

5 hours ago, Tullyseptember said:

I think when we find the need to compare ourselves (with the other person coming out unfavorably) there is something about ourselves or our actions we aren't facing up to. 

It seems so simple but if we don't self reflect we most certainly will be stuck to far into it to move forward with healthy behaviors.

I was only explaining how he had gotten in to the marriage, how they barely knew each other, weren’t compatible, and how he felt trapped. I should have left it at that. Age is really irrelevant.

My question should have been whether he will cheat in another completely different relationship. I in no way think I’m better. I do think I had the advantage of becoming friends with him first for a long time before anything else. We think alike, share common interests, and some things have aligned in our favor (like his friend marrying mine and where I grew up).. none of which makes me better. In fact, I’d say she is a better person for what we did and I can only pray she will find it in her heart to forgive someday.
 

I’m going into this knowing about his last relationship, knowing it’s possible to get my heart broken. However, I could get my heart broken with any guy, really. I can’t continue to think about that. 

[kaylasummer]

4 hours ago, vla1120 said:

Spot on! In my case, a friend called me frantic and said "If 'husband's name' calls you and asks about a laptop, tell him that you bought it for 'my husband's name' for Christmas and I was holding it for you!" Her husband called me 5 minutes later, asked me what I got my husband for Christmas. I told him "I don't know what's going on with you two, but I didn't get him a laptop. I'm here if either of you need to talk." Then, I got so angry that she had always projected that her life was picture perfect. Her marriage was perfect. Her kids were perfect. Everything was perfect. Yet, she bought a laptop in secret because she knew her husband had put a keylogger on her desktop and she didn't want to get caught talking to men on line. She wasn't a real friend and that was the end of our friendship. Real friends don't condone and help conceal affairs. They call their friends out on their crap. 

They did call him out almost immediately after I broke down to them. I started crying one night after he left for home. It was too much at that point. They were so upset with him and told him he needed to do his W a favor and divorce. They were also upset seeing what it was doing to me. 

[kaylasummer]

4 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Back to pepperbird’s comment above, I believe she may have been suggesting that you think about the position in which you placed your parents. What does it say exactly when you have put your parents in the position where their choices are - compromise their own morals/ethics to support their child or terminate their relationship with their children. 

The entire situation compromised my own morals/ethics as well. They may not have agreed with how it started but what can they do other than express disappointment in the behavior, talk about it, and come to accept it. 

[IrinaM]

Quote

One example: she showed up at my home a few months after I had requested NC. I opened the front door and she proceeded past me yelling his name and “I know you’re here” as she went through my home, through everything looking for him. I watched on, in shock as it was happening. I hugged her, let her break down to me after, and cried with her. It killed me to see the pain we caused someone else.

Hun if this happened to me I would be permanently done with the person who brought this drama and ratchetness into my life. This man has another woman, his wife no less, pushing her way into your home. he obviously doesn't care about your safety.

[kaylasummer]

1 minute ago, IrinaM said:

Hun if this happened to me I would be permanently done with the person who brought this drama and ratchetness into my life. This man has another woman, his wife no less, pushing her way into your home. he obviously doesn't care about your safety.

This was after dday, months after I requested NC. I was not talking to him at that time. I later found out he had been staying with our mutual friends. I had no intention of ever speaking to him again when this happened.

[TillieKL]

19 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

This was after dday, months after I requested NC. I was not talking to him at that time. I later found out he had been staying with our mutual friends. I had no intention of ever speaking to him again when this happened.

But you are speaking to him now, and engaging in a relationship with him, so Irina’s point still stands. 

[kaylasummer]

3 minutes ago, TillieKL said:

But you are speaking to him now, and engaging in a relationship with him, so Irina’s point still stands. 

I was scared to death when we reconnected months after this. The entire PA was an emotional rollercoaster. Trying to do the right thing, ending it so many times.. it was beyond painful. My heart was broken into a bazillion pieces after NC. Everything came flooding back when I saw him again. I also had to leave that night because there was no way I was getting into THAT again. We started talking slowly after this. I actually told him we can’t continue to engage because of everything that happened, especially after dday. It was really too much. However, because he had already filed (and his W had agreed to it at this point), I agreed to talk. The feelings were already there and here we are.

[IrinaM]

didn't you "reconnect" by running into him at a party? or am i confusing your post with someone else?

[kaylasummer]

2 minutes ago, IrinaM said:

didn't you "reconnect" by running into him at a party? or am i confusing your post with someone else?

Yes

[IrinaM]

So why were you willing to interact with him to any extent after this high drama with his wife pushing her way into your home? it's not like he even went out of his way to find you, apologize, or win you back. He never sought you out. You just happened to run into him, and were open to hearing him out. Why?

I'm not pointing this out to be mean, but this is very poor boundaries on your part. You need to have standards, to have a point at which you decide someone just isn't good enough for you.

[ ] 

I'm not trying to tell you to think about his poor BW. She is not your problem. Think about yourself and what you are doing to yourself.

Quote

However, I could get my heart broken with any guy, really.

You can greatly minimize your chances of emotional damage by making the best and wisest choices possible. Not all risk is equal. For example, there is a difference between 1% likelihood and 99% likelihood.

Edited January 31, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
group berating

[kaylasummer]

6 minutes ago, IrinaM said:

So why were you willing to interact with him to any extent after this high drama with his wife pushing her way into your home? it's not like he even went out of his way to find you, apologize, or win you back. He never sought you out. You just happened to run into him, and were open to hearing him out. Why?

I'm not pointing this out to be mean, but this is very poor boundaries on your part. You need to have standards, to have a point at which you decide someone just isn't good enough for you. OW have poor boundaries, by definition.

Most OW don't take ownership of their lives, either. There's a lot of "it just happened," and "i couldn't help it."

OW tend to believe that having poor boundaries is good, because nobody will ever respect reasonable boundaries. OW think that having poor boundaries and low expectations are the way to earn a man's love and devotion.

OW often think that going off emotions is good, too, because our emotions are a good indicator of what will be a good life choice. These things just aren't true. This combo of low self-esteem and wishful think will be destructive to your life.

I'm not trying to tell you to think about his poor BW. She is not your problem. Think about yourself and what you are doing to yourself.

You can greatly minimize your chances of emotional damage by making the best and wisest choicest possible. Not all risk is equal. For example, there is a difference between 1% likelihood and 99% likelihood.

He did apologize profusely when I told him what had happened with his xW after we reconnected. There was no reason to tell him before this.  
 

I’m pretty certain that our mutual friends had set up the encounter at their Christmas. They had been there for MM while he was staying with them after our NC. They told me a couple of months after NC that he was really struggling with our breakup and not doing well. At that time, I was completely heartbroken, but there was no way I was going back in to that drama.
 

I backed away from these friends during NC.. it bothered me they were so happily married and in love when I was miserable after walking away from MM. It was also keeping me from starting to heal. It didn’t talk to them again until they invited me to Christmas party. I knew just going would be hard because we shared so many memories there. They also thought it might help me to get out. 

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

However, I could get my heart broken with any guy, really.

The risk is substantially higher with a man who lacks integrity. 

[pepperbird2]

On 1/27/2022 at 1:01 PM, kaylasummer said:

I see how it can come across that way. I’ve always felt like she was the victim and I’ve always felt the guilt/empathy. I should not have mentioned the trailer park or her ex comment but those were her words and I can’t delete it. Recent events have probably shifted my thinking a bit and some of the MM comments here have caused me to defend him.

One example: she showed up at my home a few months after I had requested NC. I opened the front door and she proceeded past me yelling his name and “I know you’re here” as she went through my home, through everything looking for him. I watched on, in shock as it was happening. I hugged her, let her break down to me after, and cried with her. It killed me to see the pain we caused someone else.  I later found out he had been staying with our mutual best friends. 

There are so many things I can’t share, so many things that have happened recently (TMI) that have probably made me come across in a way I don’t mean to. 

Um, the only one that brought any comfort to was you.

[pepperbird2]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:28 PM, kaylasummer said:

There is so much more to on our parent’s involvement. MM and I took my mom to lunch during our friendship/EA. My mom loved him, but talked to me after to let me know it’s not a good idea to befriend a MM. Ever.. I assured her he was one of my best friends, his W was fine with it, he respected me, and nothing would ever happen. She asked around about him because his family spent a lot of time in our hometown and everyone loved him/them, so it was dropped. When I finally opened up to my mom after they were told (dday), she blamed me for getting involved. It wouldn’t have started had I listened; I deserve that!

His parents got to know me over the years when they’d stop by the office on their way to my hometown. We instantly bonded. They always wanted to talk to me. MM would joke with them that they only stopped to see me, not their son,.. that they loved me more. They didn’t know about the PA until xW told them after dday as well. 

Not that any of this matters but Ive had a lot of heart to hearts with our moms in recent months and I think knowing each others parents throughout helped both our parents to better understand. They were not ok with the behavior, but what do they do.. accept it or terminate the relationship with their son/daughter. 

I thought you said you weren't in the picture when the divorce was first brought up.
OP,  You are lying to yourself, and you're making excuses for him. This leads me to believe you don't really love "him". you love who you think he is.
 

[pepperbird2]

18 hours ago, Tullyseptember said:

You both will need to live your lives and as years go on, only then on you will determine if the relationship that started as an affair is an success or not.

I really do think you need to stop focusing on the wife's personality/background and age.  You are projecting and need to turn that mirror around and face yourself....it's the only person who matters.

 

ah, but there's the thing.
If she did that, then she can't blame his wife for the affair. she has to face the fact (and not just in words) that he actively made the choice to have an affair. Nobody forced him. Nobody dragged him, kicking and screaming, into bed with the OP. The op is trying to explain this way this, but can't. It's like tap dancing on a land mine. It will eventually blow up, causing hurt to everyone involved.
It's really no different than a a BS placing all the blame for the affair on the OW/OM. It's a nasty feeling to know the person you love could choose to hurt someone who really doesn't deserve it.



 

[pepperbird2]

16 hours ago, vla1120 said:

Spot on! In my case, a friend called me frantic and said "If 'husband's name' calls you and asks about a laptop, tell him that you bought it for 'my husband's name' for Christmas and I was holding it for you!" Her husband called me 5 minutes later, asked me what I got my husband for Christmas. I told him "I don't know what's going on with you two, but I didn't get him a laptop. I'm here if either of you need to talk." Then, I got so angry that she had always projected that her life was picture perfect. Her marriage was perfect. Her kids were perfect. Everything was perfect. Yet, she bought a laptop in secret because she knew her husband had put a keylogger on her desktop and she didn't want to get caught talking to men on line. She wasn't a real friend and that was the end of our friendship. Real friends don't condone and help conceal affairs. They call their friends out on their crap. 

Real friends don't take their emotional skeletons into your closet just so they can feel better or cover their own behind. Sounds like this person was no friend to you.

[pepperbird2]

9 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

 

I’m pretty certain that our mutual friends had set up the encounter at their Christmas. They had been there for MM while he was staying with them after our NC. They told me a couple of months after NC that he was really struggling with our breakup and not doing well. At that time, I was completely heartbroken, but there was no way I was going back in to that drama.
 

 

This makes the situation even  worse. What do you think will happen when this (ahem) "wonderful man" you've hitched your wagon to decides he's not happy with you? Will your mutual  friends go behind your back too to help fix him up with his next OW?

this is ridiculous. you can't trust him, and can you trust his friends. The more you try and make this seem okay, the worse it looks. What you have right now is a guy who has friends and family who actively support his cheating. What on earth makes you think he'll be any different if he's with you and his eyes start to wander? No one is holding him accountable for his actions. In fact, they've taught him that it's okay to cheat, and he can count on their support.

Some men and women who had affairs will go on to never have another one. In my experience, these people face what they did and accept responsibility. They don't blame anyone else, and their family does not support their behaviour. Most importantly, they don't blame the betrayed spouse.

If you do decide to stay with this guy, I would highly recommend some heavy duty counselling.

[stillafool]

17 hours ago, vla1120 said:

Spot on! In my case, a friend called me frantic and said "If 'husband's name' calls you and asks about a laptop, tell him that you bought it for 'my husband's name' for Christmas and I was holding it for you!" Her husband called me 5 minutes later, asked me what I got my husband for Christmas. I told him "I don't know what's going on with you two, but I didn't get him a laptop. I'm here if either of you need to talk." Then, I got so angry that she had always projected that her life was picture perfect. Her marriage was perfect. Her kids were perfect. Everything was perfect. Yet, she bought a laptop in secret because she knew her husband had put a keylogger on her desktop and she didn't want to get caught talking to men on line. She wasn't a real friend and that was the end of our friendship. Real friends don't condone and help conceal affairs. They call their friends out on their crap. 

Yeah when I was single one of my married girlfriends asked me to tell her husband she spent the night at my house if he asked.  I told her I would not get involved and be party to her lying and cheating on her husband and if she wanted to cheat, please leave me the hell out of it.

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, pepperbird2 said:

I thought you said you weren't in the picture when the divorce was first brought up.
OP,  You are lying to yourself, and you're making excuses for him. This leads me to believe you don't really love "him". you love who you think he is.
 

I was in the picture when he first brought up divorce to his parents. They knew of our friendship, but he didn’t tell them about our A. My name wasn’t mentioned when he brought up divorcing. At that time they told him —insert their last name— do not divorce. He didn’t actually file until I wasn’t in the picture months in to NC.

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, pepperbird2 said:

This makes the situation even  worse. What do you think will happen when this (ahem) "wonderful man" you've hitched your wagon to decides he's not happy with you? Will your mutual  friends go behind your back too to help fix him up with his next OW?

this is ridiculous. you can't trust him, and can you trust his friends. The more you try and make this seem okay, the worse it looks. What you have right now is a guy who has friends and family who actively support his cheating. What on earth makes you think he'll be any different if he's with you and his eyes start to wander? No one is holding him accountable for his actions. In fact, they've taught him that it's okay to cheat, and he can count on their support.

Some men and women who had affairs will go on to never have another one. In my experience, these people face what they did and accept responsibility. They don't blame anyone else, and their family does not support their behaviour. Most importantly, they don't blame the betrayed spouse.

If you do decide to stay with this guy, I would highly recommend some heavy duty counselling.

I’m not blaming anyone. I only shared stories of how he met his xW, rushed in to things, were not compatible, and how he felt trapped because it helped me understand how he was feeling. It makes me angry that he didn’t divorce early on. He said that is his regret also. I don’t understand how someone could go out and cheat because they don’t have a connection with someone or because they feel trapped. Leave then! I know he had 101 reasons he felt he couldn’t, but that is why I struggle. I have a hard time understanding that.

I’ve also explained how his family would have absolutely not supported it until they were informed after dday. His friend, married my friend.. they knew of our friendship and we all did a lot together. However, they did not know of our A. They were actually very disappointed in him when they found out and told him he needed to do right, do his w a favor and divorce her. They were also upset with him when they say how it was affecting me.

Edited to add.. our friends did not support what he was doing until he filed and only because they knew me, knew my feelings for him, knew we were both struggling after NC, and thought we needed to be together. We supported them since day one through all of their trials/tribulations; they only had the best of intentions. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by kaylasummer

[kaylasummer]

Just now, kaylasummer said:

I’m not blaming anyone. I only shared stories of how he met his xW, rushed in to things, were not compatible, and how he felt trapped because it helped me understand how he was feeling. It makes me angry that he didn’t divorce early on. He said that is his regret also. I don’t understand how someone could go out and cheat because they don’t have a connection with someone or because they feel trapped. Leave then! I know he had 101 reasons he felt he couldn’t, but that is why I struggle. I have a hard time understanding that.

I’ve also explained how his family would have absolutely not supported it until they were informed after dday. His friend, married my friend.. they knew of our friendship and we all did a lot together. However, they did not know of our A. They were actually very disappointed in him when they found out and told him he needed to do right, do his w a favor and divorce her. They were also upset with him when they say how it was affecting me. Edited to add.. our friends did not support what he was doing until he filed and only because they knew me, knew my feelings for him, knew we were both struggling after NC, and thought we needed to be together. 

 

[kaylasummer]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

Yeah when I was single one of my married girlfriends asked me to tell her husband she spent the night at my house if he asked.  I told her I would not get involved and be party to her lying and cheating on her husband and if she wanted to cheat, please leave me the hell out of it.

I’m pretty sure our friends felt the same. They were very upset when they found out late into it and told him he needed to do his W a favor and divorce her. They were also upset with how it was affecting me (they saw me breakdown crying when he had to leave early for home one night). They told him he needed to do the right thing. Dday happened shortly after, so I’m fairly certain they had something to do with somehow clueing her in. They didn’t abandon us because we had set them up and were there for them throughout, but definitely disappointed. 

[BaileyB]

25 minutes ago, kaylasummer said:

His friend, married my friend.. they knew of our friendship and we all did a lot together. However, they did not know of our A.

What did they think you were doing together?

I’m quite sure that they suspected that something was going on. Most married men do not form a “friendship” with another woman and spend time together with another couple - 

Most married men don’t do this because a) it’s very inappropriate and b) most wives would have a problem with their husband spending time with another woman and “their” couple friends.

I understand why you feel the need to defend your friends and family as it relates to the idea that they supported your affair, but I think you are doing yourself a disservice by not being honest with yourself. You are setting yourself for real heartache because there are things you simply can’t accept here - 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by BaileyB

[kaylasummer]

8 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

What did they think you were doing together?

I’m quite sure that they suspected that something was going on. Most married men do not form a “friendship” with another woman and spend time together with another couple - 

Most married men don’t do this because a) it’s very inappropriate and b) most wives would have a problem with their husband spending time with another woman and “their” couple friends.

I understand why you feel the need to defend your friends and family as it relates to the idea that they supported your affair, but I think you are doing yourself a disservice by not being honest with yourself. You are setting yourself for real heartache because there are things you simply can’t accept here - 

 

Yes they suspected and asked a couple of times and my answer was “no, he’s like a brother.” I did eventually open up to my friend way later on about feelings developing, but did not feel I could tell her about it becoming more until I couldn’t keep the secret any longer. 

I encouraged MM to invite his W out with us in the beginning because it really was just a friendship for a long time. Our friends met his W a few times. I even told him maybe a month after meeting him that he was “like a brother to me.” He was safe. Nothing would ever happen. I could not even fathom it ever becoming more.. that stuff just didn’t happen in my world!