Dating MM as he goes through a divorce; can he be trusted after long term a?

[S2B]

Odds are high he will cheat on you. His past predicts it.

do t be surprised and don’t rely on the R being healthy.

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I agree. Trying really hard to guard my heart and proceed slowly with caution.

But you are not. You're still fantasizing about it. Keep in mind this "relationship" is really a romance novel in your head.

Stop hurting others for your fantasies. Stop chasing others spouses.

Find a decent honest single "magnet".

It seems you are in love with drama, not anyone in particular.

[Crazelnut]

15 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

I wish it were that easy. He is like a magnet.. my weakness. I don’t know if I’m that strong.

Oh please. You have the power to walk away from this any time you want. You clearly don't want to, even though you know deep down he can't be trusted and that you are headed for even greater pain. You're enjoying playing out this fantasy in your head and talking about him.  You welcome the input from the friends who fill your head with the idea that you two belong together, because it's what you want.

If you wanted a healthy life, you'd block this man from your life.

[BaileyB]

33 minutes ago, Crazelnut said:

You have the power to walk away from this any time you want.

She’s already done it - successfully, for six months. Thing is, I think she was putting in time to see what he would do… She took her opportunity when she went to that Christmas Party knowing there was a good chance he would be there - and just like that… she is back in it, playing out the romantic fantasy in her head again but now - with a plot twist.

[stillafool]

16 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

It’s hard to fully trust someone capable of cheating/lying, even if they had their reasons.

He's probably thinking the same thing about you.  He may not fully trust you either.

[S2B]

Why don’t you stop seeing him until his divorce is final?

Edited December 10, 2021 by S2B

[stillafool]

26 minutes ago, S2B said:

Why don’t you stop seeing him until his divorce is final?

C'mon, now you are making to much sense.  I'm wondering if it ever will be.

[vla1120]

22 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

Is he capable of lying/cheating down the road?

Absolutely, and since he had done it earlier in their marriage as well, I would say he is likely to repeat the behavior down the road, whether with you or someone else. Also, I noticed he "wants to take it slow." This is a pretty common occurrence when after the divorce. The cheater does't end up with the person he/she cheated with because now he/she is free to see whoever they want, so they sow some of those wild oats.

[vla1120]

2 hours ago, Lexmar said:

It's not nearly as easy as you think.

If people had that much self control they wouldn't need psychiatrists or medication.

 

Seeing a therapist or needing medication has little to do with self control. Self control is a choice.

[IrinaM]

The thing is, the question of whether or not to trust this man to remain faithful is simply more imaginary thought experiments. The idea that the OP is "dating a MM who is going through a divorce" is a fantasy she is indulging in.

There's no need for OP to trust this guy, they're not in a relationship. Realistically, OP, if you had not attended this party, when do you think you would have heard from this MM again? It seems like once you removed yourself from his immediate vicinity, he never sought you out.

[mark clemson]

Hmm. Many people do have self control issues of various kinds -  addiction, OCD, mania, eating disorders, road rage etc.

Being or feeling in love with an inappropriate partner can certainly leave one feeling conflicted and almost certainly does lead to self-control issues with some people. "I can't quit you babe," "If being with you is wrong, I don't wanna be right," "Affairs are an addiction," "I'm addicted to you" etc, etc. Not sure if that's OP's case, but perhaps.

If everyone had good self control we'd live in a rather different world.

 

[anika99]

On 12/9/2021 at 12:40 PM, kaylasummer said:

I found out he had cheated when they were first married as well! It’s nauseating to think about. He says it wasn’t right with her and he knew that before they even married (they married for the wrong reason).

The issue is that in the above statement he doesn't take responsibility for his actions. He is saying that his wife and his marriage MADE him cheat. He wants others to believe that he is not a cheater and a liar because he wouldn't have cheated and lied if his marriage has been "right". It's like an abusive man saying "I'm not an abuser, I only hit my wife because she makes me so mad, she makes me hit her" or "I'm not a thief. I only rob people because I am horribly broke. If I had money I wouldn't need to steal but since I'm so poor what else can I possibly do? " 

Healthy people will walk away from an argument before turning to violence, they will find a job or look for honest ways to make money before resorting to robbery and they will divorce the partner who is not right for them before they become serial cheaters and liars. Circumstances and other people don't control our actions. People of good character don't turn to dishonorable behavior when they are facing problems. 

[kaylasummer]

I was the one who asked to take it slow. Everything has been a bit overwhelming.  I’ve never really had any drama in my life until this, so no, I don’t like drama. I’m realizing that I’ve carried a lot of resentment for what he put me and his family through. So I ended this, whatever this was. It hurts, but not nearly as bad as it did the last time.

[BaileyB]

22 minutes ago, Lexmar said:

It's not nearly as simple as "self control".

There is a biological and  neurophysiological basis to those addictions. And of course, there are also psychological and behavioural aspects that support addiction. That’s very different than the “addiction” one feels toward a person or a relationship. To say that one is “addicted” to a man or an unhealthy situation is more likely based in a complicated and very unhealthy confluence of psychological and behavioural factors… 

Choosing to be in a relationship with a man who is committed to another woman is a decision. Sure, the feeling of love has a hormonal basis. Feelings can either be acted upon, or not - it is our decision whether we give them value or not. People with feelings of “love” for another make decisions everyday to walk away and end relationships that are not good decisions/not healthy relationships. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

The problem is not only the cheating in and of itself, OP. 

It's his inherent lack of respect for "loved" ones, his poor boundaries, his immature decision-making process, his selfish conduct and overall craptastic judgment. That will affect any sort of future relationship with him, because it's part of who he is. The evidence of this is the fact that you weren't his first affair. He'd done this before. You cannot exactly isolate all this behaviour down to the misguided idea that he did it because he's just so in love with you, because this is not the only time he's cheated. He comes with all these messed up character defects, regardless of the woman in front of him. 

So will he cheat again? I'd say that yes, it's possible. Will this relationship work out to be a healthy, thriving and stable one even if he keeps it zipped? I would advise you not to kid yourself. He's not the kind of man who values those things. You are right to be very worried. You're taking a significant risk if you decide to puruse this, one in which the odds are stacked against you. 

And also? You really need better friends. Those who support an affair (and all the active deception that goes along with it) are not much better than him.

[Milly May June]

I might bring another perspective. What does your MM value? 

Lets start with friendships. He is best friend with a man who encourages him to have an affair and risk his family. Let's say this friend feels entitled to cheat on his wife (your best friend), will your MM return the favour? First clue, look at the company he keeps. Do they enable him or hold him accountable? 

Moving on to his kids. He is risking the relationship with his kids by engaging with you again before the divorce is final. Changes are astronomical the kids will despise you and grow to resent him for hurting them and their mother. He is not giving them time to process the new reality of their life or adjust nore is he putting them first. What does that tell you about priorities and what he does for the people he is supposed to love the most?

His wife. The woman he chose to marry and have kids with, who gave up her career so she could support his and raise their kids. He married her 'even if it didn't feel right', cheated on her, did't communicate his 'unhappiness' in any meaningful way and cheated on her again with a younger woman. He lied to her without blinking. What does that tell you about his loyalty and sense of respect for his partner in life? 

Which brings me to you. Younger, single and fun. What's there not to like? You are surely a nice person with many good qualities but which one of those does he value in you? Let say you were a bit older, had some baggage dealing with an ex/custody and fell into a longer depression? Would he love that version of you too? Or does he 'love' how you make him feel now? 

What do you value in a partner? Forget about sexual chemistry and the lovy dovy feelings... What qualities are you looking for in a partner and how many of those does he really meet based on his behaviour patterns?

Did you ever ask him what he values in a romantic partner?

[Wiseman2]

20 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

.  I’ve never really had any drama in my life until this

And this is precisely what is telling you how wrong the whole thing is for you.

[S2B]

He will never be trustworthy. Based on his past behavior and the way HE participates within a marriage… you won’t ever be able to trust him.

he cheated early in the marriage and he’s cheating recently.

His pattern is “he cheats”.

can you stay in the relationship knowing he will cheat on you if you continue with him? 

[SouthernIslander]

He sounds like a serial cheater, so the answer is yes…he probably will cheat. Especially if he doesn’t take a few years alone and get some help to get to the root of why he treats women like that.  It is likely something that has nothing to do with you or his wife.  
 

You gave his wife your word that you would stay out of it, if I am not mistaken.   I would do just that until he can show you a finalized divorce.  

[mark clemson]

Hmm. Well, I'm not going to tell you that he's going to be lying OR that he is "psychologically healthy" since I don't know whether he is. I'm not advising you to fully trust or even accept this man (fully trusting would be unwise, I think that much is clear).

You might keep in mind though, that a vegan will always tell you that eating meat is "an unhealthy and destructive choice" and there are always more ethical alternatives (which in fact there are). Similarly a pacifist will tell you that war is an unhealthy and destructive choice and there are always more ethical alternatives (less sure about whether that is factually true). Some people will say the similar things about wearing a bikini to the beach as well.

Reality is that the world, people, and relationships don't run according to the ideals and moral philosophies of a few. Whether his behavior is "unhealthy and bad morals" or "a response to a marriage he finds difficult to extricate himself from" or "just fine" is really primarily a matter of perspective. It IS unethical - that is a factual statement, and given that he's willing to be unethical with her, that would seem to increase the probability he would do so with you.

[kaylasummer]

I’m a nut shell, MM and I had a long term affair while I worked for his practice. We were best friends and did everything together during the first 1 1/2 year EA, which included meeting his family and friends. I was already head over heels in love with him by the time it became physical. He left his W after dday, but it was too much and I walked away, even quit my job that I had worked so hard for. This was mostly do to guilt, wanting to do the right thing and remove myself, and because I didn’t want him to ever resent me for breaking up his family. This broke my heart in to a bazillion pieces. 
 

Well, i ran into MM after six months of NC (initiated by me) at a Christmas party in early December. He played a couple of songs and said some things that would melt anyone’s heart. He also told me he filed for D. We talked after this. I tried to end it; I didn’t want to be with someone going through a divorce who I’m not so sure I could trust (after what he did to xW), However, that’s easier said than done. 

So we started out slow, but slow became all night conversations on the phone, dating with a few overnights, and him telling me “I’m falling for you.. wait, who am I kidding. I already fell”. I feel the same and finally told him (I could never say ILY when previously together in fear of being vulnerable).

He has my heart and can destroy it.. that’s a scary feeling. There are times when I’m alone thinking about what he did to his xW and it makes me angry. I want to know who the others were.. he told me there were others before me during one of our long open “tell all” conversations (which I can not unhear, EVER), but that he would never do that to me (yes, I know that’s what they all say). He knew she wasn’t the right one from the beginning,..that’s their deal, but makes me question his morals.

He calls me “the love of his life” when he introduces me to everyone and told my family this as well..praying this becomes a success story. Does anyone have or know of any success stories to share? I’d love to hear. Thanks. 

[BaileyB]

Nobody can provide the reassurance that you seek Kayla. 

You have chosen to trust a man who you know all too well is capable of lying to and betraying a woman - 

If you chose to believe him when he says, “it’s different with you,” that’s your choice. It’s a risk, and it’s not one that I would ever take. Honesty, respect, fidelity, character, integrity - all things that are important to me when choosing a life partner. This man has demonstrated none of those traits. None. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by BaileyB

[kaylasummer]

3 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Nobody can provide the reassurance that you seek Kayla. 

You have chosen to trust a man who you know all too well is capable of lying to and betraying a woman - 

If you chose to believe him when he says, “it’s different with you,” that’s your choice. It’s a risk, and it’s not one that I would ever take. Honesty, respect, fidelity, character, integrity - all things that are important to me when choosing a life partner. This man has demonstrated none of those traits. None. 

You’re right. I can’t believe I got myself into this situation in the first place. I was so innocent and naive when I met him. I’ve learned so much since. A small part of me wants to be strong and walk away knowing I may get hurt down the road. However, he has my heart and I have never felt this for anyone.

Walking away is not an option unless he were to actually cheat. I don’t want to even think about his past but it’s hard not to. Maybe I’m afraid of being sidetracked and getting hurt if I forget about it and naively think it won’t happen.. another way of guarding my heart a little bit. 

[S2B]

He will cheat. If you can continue in the union knowing he will cheat - then stay.

iF you expect he will be faithful while seeing you - you are fooling yourself.

the ones who cheat - will always cheat. Don’t think he won’t cheat on you.

be realistic - if you stay he will cheat. Can you live with that? 
 

believe me…I’m old - I’ve seen and studied patterns of behavior my whole life. You won’t be disappointed as long as you completely accept he will cheat on you - that’s what he knows and that’s what he does. He needs the ego boosts. One gal won’t be enough - know that too.

[Prudence V]

15 hours ago, kaylasummer said:

Does anyone have or know of any success stories to share?

I don’t believe any Rs are “success stories”, whatever their label (A, M, dating…) - they’re all works in progress. 
 

Like you, our A lasted about 3.5 years. Like you, I was introduced to his family and friends (but as his partner, not as “a friend”) and, like your description, they were supportive. That made a huge difference. When he left the M, the support from family and friends was invaluable. We’ve been married now for about a decade and a half, and we’re happier than ever. We have never had trust issues. We have both been married before, and know how toxic relationships can become. We are grateful to have found each other. 
 

Sometimes it does “work out”. Will it work out for you? That we can’t tell you. But you are better placed than any of us to weigh the evidence. How he treated you in the past is a better indication than how he treated her - you are not her, your R is not their R, the triggers are not the same. If he has always treated you with honesty and respect, chances are he will do so in future. If, however, he has been less honest, less than respectful toward you or left you questioning his love or your worth to him, then that is unlikely to change significantly either, just because she is no longer M to him. If your relationship dynamic is fundamentally healthy or not up to this point is probably the best indicator of your chances in the future. 
 

Be honest in your appraisal. If the relationship you had during those 3.5 years was everything you hoped for, aside from being part time, that’s a good basis to start from. But if there were ways he treated you, or dynamics you resented, or imbalances of power or caring, then that suggests issues that are likely to manifest again. Some issues might be soluble with counselling, but sometimes patterns are too deeply ingrained and are resistant to sustainable change. You need to be honest with yourself about your past relationship, in evaluating the chances for the future.