How to cope

[CasiXI]

5 hours ago, spiderowl said:

Given a choice, would you rather continue with a sexual relationship with your friend AND your husband?

No. I think I liked the affection and 'holding' from her, when I thought it was all emotionally okay (I thought we could have that without anything sexual), but I don't want sex with her. If I could go back in time, I'd never go there with her at all, maybe with hopes of saving the friendship but I think that's unsalvageable now too. 

Is this something that you have done before?  If so, was your husband aware of whatever happened and how did he cope with it?

I've never been unfaithful before. I have probably engaged in some risky behaviours in other ways, but not since I was a teen, before I met my husband. 

 

[spiritedaway2003]

How I am reading is that you were emotionally distressed during a time when you needed comfort.  Boundaries got blurred with your friend and things escalated.  You realize that you didn’t want to take it so far and now the guilt of hurting your family, the  “shame” (perhaps?) of exploring with a same gendered friend and the anxiety of hurting and potentially losing the friendship of same friend is all weighing on your mind (even though the friendship in its current form is clearly not what you want). I am so glad you are seeking therapy.  Guilt and shame can weigh a person down so much and you would have to work very hard towards letting it go.  I actually get the sense that you tend to have very hard time saying no to people.

Generally speaking, the first step is to communicate and then go NC with your said friend.  You might be afraid of hurting her and you might feel more guilt since you “initiated”, but right now, you need to take care of yourself first.  Your former friendship ended the moment it became weird.  Many who have been through similar situations would wish for things to go back to what was, but that is wishful thinking.  Accept that and move forward.  It sounds drastic but going NC is a necessary first step in setting proper boundaries if you want to regain control of your life.   Since you are now at a point where you don’t want to continue the friendship as it is, you should accept and honor your own needs and boundaries.  Hopefully this distance should also give your friend the space to detach and heal too.

Otherwise, you will continue to feel emotionally blackmailed (and distressed) by the needs of your friend who wants more (neither helping you nor her). Yes she will be hurt but she will need to learn to cope as well, she too is an adult.  I think your husband and therapist can help provide support you in this action. It’s understandable. 

If you think your friend is tell the details to your husband, then it is better for your husband to hear it from you first. As far as whether you want to tell your husband about what really happened, there are consequences. Maybe he would be understanding. Maybe he wouldn’t.  I don’t lean towards a blanket tell/not tell as it is a very individual decision.  Only you can decide how much you can handle once you are in a more emotionally stable place and where you want your relationship to go.  

Take care of you first. Shore up boundaries with said friend first. Continue working with your therapist. One day at a time. Good luck.

[CasiXI]

36 minutes ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

How I am reading is that you were emotionally distressed during a time when you needed comfort.  Boundaries got blurred with your friend and things escalated.  You realize that you didn’t want to take it so far and now the guilt of hurting your family, the  “shame” (perhaps?) of exploring with a same gendered friend and the anxiety of hurting and potentially losing the friendship of same friend is all weighing on your mind (even though the friendship in its current form is clearly not what you want). I am so glad you are seeking therapy.  Guilt and shame can weigh a person down so much and you would have to work very hard towards letting it go.  I actually get the sense that you tend to have very hard time saying no to people.

Generally speaking, the first step is to communicate and then go NC with your said friend.  You might be afraid of hurting her and you might feel more guilt since you “initiated”, but right now, you need to take care of yourself first.  Your former friendship ended the moment it became weird.  Many who have been through similar situations would wish for things to go back to what was, but that is wishful thinking.  Accept that and move forward.  It sounds drastic but going NC is a necessary first step in setting proper boundaries if you want to regain control of your life.   Since you are now at a point where you don’t want to continue the friendship as it is, you should accept and honor your own needs and boundaries.  Hopefully this distance should also give your friend the space to detach and heal too.

Otherwise, you will continue to feel emotionally blackmailed (and distressed) by the needs of your friend who wants more (neither helping you nor her). Yes she will be hurt but she will need to learn to cope as well, she too is an adult.  I think your husband and therapist can help provide support you in this action. It’s understandable. 

If you think your friend is tell the details to your husband, then it is better for your husband to hear it from you first. As far as whether you want to tell your husband about what really happened, there are consequences. Maybe he would be understanding. Maybe he wouldn’t.  I don’t lean towards a blanket tell/not tell as it is a very individual decision.  Only you can decide how much you can handle once you are in a more emotionally stable place and where you want your relationship to go.  

Take care of you first. Shore up boundaries with said friend first. Continue working with your therapist. One day at a time. Good luck.

Thank you so much for this, it was a really helpful reply x

[Amethyst68]

I'm confused why you are giving your AP more respect and consideration than your BH.

How would you feel if you found out your husband had an affair and then continued to meet up as just friends after you found out? 

Can't you see the high level of disrespect your husband is having to deal with at a time when HE should be your priority? I imagine he's waiting for you to take full responsibility for your actions and go NC and being disappointed each coffee date...

[CasiXI]

2 hours ago, Amethyst68 said:

I'm confused why you are giving your AP more respect and consideration than your BH.

How would you feel if you found out your husband had an affair and then continued to meet up as just friends after you found out? 

Can't you see the high level of disrespect your husband is having to deal with at a time when HE should be your priority? I imagine he's waiting for you to take full responsibility for your actions and go NC and being disappointed each coffee date...

At the risk of sounding defensive, I don't fully agree with this perspective, although I appreciate where it's coming from. 

In terms of how I would feel - I think I would feel desperately sorry for him if he was in this situation, or similar. My husband is definitely not a malicious person so I don't think I'd see the behaviour as malicious against me, or intended to disrespect me necessarily. I would want to support him, even if that meant us not remaining together, if one or both of us wanted to go seperate ways. 

[elaine567]

You are indeed placating and pandering to your AP, whilst rubbing your husband's nose in it.

No-one can stay friends with their AP and maintain their marriage at the same time.
Time to choose the one you want IMO.

[elaine567]

9 minutes ago, CasiXI said:

I think I would feel desperately sorry for him if he was in this situation, or similar.

Yeah sure you would...

No-one feels sorry for the person who cheated on them... hatred, anger, sadness, upset, disappointment, etc. maybe, but sorry very rarely...

[CasiXI]

18 minutes ago, CasiXI said:

At the risk of sounding defensive, I don't fully agree with this perspective, although I appreciate where it's coming from. 

In terms of how I would feel - I think I would feel desperately sorry for him if he was in this situation, or similar. My husband is definitely not a malicious person so I don't think I'd see the behaviour as malicious against me, or intended to disrespect me necessarily. I would want to support him, even if that meant us not remaining together, if one or both of us wanted to go seperate ways. 

Sorry, to clarify what I don't fully agree with... 

I don't disagree that continuing to go for 'coffee dates' would be disrespectful. I just don't think the situation is as straightforward as that, or that I intend to do this going forward. I did say I'd cut contact back to these brief meetings in public, but that's where I've got up to, rather than an ongoing fun thing I hope to keep going with. 

[CasiXI]

7 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Yeah sure you would...

No-one feels sorry for the person who cheated on them... hatred, anger, sadness, upset, disappointment, etc. maybe, but sorry very rarely...

It's an assumption and generalisation, to say that no-one feels that way.

I'm not expecting my husband to feel sorry for me, but I truly think I would be compassionate about it all, if he went on to have similar experiences to me. 

[stillafool]

On 12/16/2021 at 11:45 AM, CasiXI said:

12/16/21 Stillafool said:

She has fallen for you in a romantic way because of the first kiss and the sex. 

I think this is correct. 

Could it be that you're afraid of her because she has fallen for you in a romantic way (which is freaking you out); but you only see her in a friendship/sexual way.  In otherwords, you do want to have sex with her but you want her to stop acting like a love sick puppy?

Edited December 17, 2021 by stillafool

[Wiseman2]

Why not simply cut your losses and cut this woman completely out of your life?  Tell her you can no longer see her and then delete and block her and all her people from all your social media.

That solves a host of problems.

The guilt, getting rid of a toxic predator, making new sober decent honest friends and repairing your marriage.

You can also let this transgression die along with this toxic friendship.

 

[CasiXI]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

Could it be that you're afraid of her because she has fallen for you in a romantic way (which is freaking you out); but you only see her in a friendship/sexual way.  In otherwords, you do want to have sex with her but you want her to stop acting like a love sick puppy?

I don't want to have sex with her. 

[CasiXI]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why not simply cut your losses and cut this woman completely out of your life?  Tell her you can no longer see her and then delete and block her and all her people from all your social media.

That solves a host of problems.

The guilt, getting rid of a toxic predator, making new sober decent honest friends and repairing your marriage.

You can also let this transgression die along with this toxic friendship.

 

I have deleted and blocked on social media - her and all her people. 

I've not completely ghosted her though. I feel responsible, and being honest, haven't had the strength in the face of her saying it would be too awful for her. 

[stillafool]

5 minutes ago, CasiXI said:

I feel responsible, and being honest, haven't had the strength in the face of her saying it would be too awful for her. 

I know you'll feel guilty but she will get over it.  You will probably be doing her a favor by pulling away from her so she can get over you and find someone who will love her.  You being around is probably keeping her from healing at this point.

Edited December 17, 2021 by stillafool

[glows]

5 minutes ago, CasiXI said:

I have deleted and blocked on social media - her and all her people. 

I've not completely ghosted her though. I feel responsible, and being honest, haven't had the strength in the face of her saying it would be too awful for her. 

You can also choose to respond less and less over time. Eventually people move on. She'll likely get the hint. 

Spend more of your energy with your marriage and family.

[spiderowl]

You have initiated this affair, OP, for whatever reason.  It hasn't just been a one-off impulsive thing; you continued with it and continued to initiate sexual activity.  That is not something that I can imagine anyone who is wholly heterosexual doing.  I may be wrong but from my own (heterosexual) point of view, I just would never want to do this, not even for comfort.  I might spend time talking with a friend but if there was a hint of it becoming sexual, I would back out.  

Is this guilt for risking an affair rather than the fact that it was with a woman?  It is not as though you are a teenager or young adult, exploring your sexuality; you must have a pretty good idea of where you are in terms of sexuality by now.  I noticed that when you said your parents mentioned that it was a form of 'coming out', you did not disagree with that.  Maybe you do not feel attracted to this woman any more but would feel attracted to other women?

Your husband is being very understanding.  That suggests to me that he does not see this 'affair' (or however you have described it to him) as a threat to him.  

Things like this don't happen by accident.  You initiated and continued to initiate.  You do accept responsibility for that.  Maybe you want a female partner but just not her. Could it be you are dealing with repressed desires and that you don't want to admit to this yourself?  At some level, you must know that it might put your marriage at risk if you were to get involved with another woman.  If it were just a matter of having sought comfort with the wrong person, I don't think you would be feeling this tremendous anguish.  You would realise it was a mistake and try to put it behind you.  I just feel there is something missing from this story.

[CasiXI]

8 hours ago, spiderowl said:

That is not something that I can imagine anyone who is wholly heterosexual doing. 

I agree. It resulted in me having a bit of a sexuality/identity crisis. And one of the things I have spoken to my husband about is that my sexuality is not what he thought it was. We (he and I) refer to what happened as a 'lesbian affair'. 

Is this guilt for risking an affair rather than the fact that it was with a woman? 

I think it's about it being an affair rather than it being a woman, although I do think there is quite a lot of trickiness about that too. I would never, ever have considered myself homophobic or anything like that at all, but, having feelings for a same sex person and acting on them did shock me because it's a part of myself I didn't know. 

It is not as though you are a teenager or young adult, exploring your sexuality; you must have a pretty good idea of where you are in terms of sexuality by now. 

I would have said the same, but apparently not? 

I noticed that when you said your parents mentioned that it was a form of 'coming out', you did not disagree with that.

No, I didn't. 

Maybe you do not feel attracted to this woman any more but would feel attracted to other women?

I'm not sure about that. I think, in terms of general attraction without acting on it, I'm more interested in men but possibly would also find women attractive in the future? It's very rare that I do actually find another person attractive though. I'm not sure I ever found my friend attractive! I've never been unfaithful in any other relationship in my life, not just in my marriage, and don't expect to ever be again. 

Your husband is being very understanding.  That suggests to me that he does not see this 'affair' (or however you have described it to him) as a threat to him.  

I think he did, initially. Or maybe not *that specific person*, as he sees her as having nothing to offer and said he would not worry if I ran off with her because he expected I'd quickly see it wouldn't work and return home. But the security of our relationship was threatened by *my behaviour*. He was upset and angry, and wanted to know that he and our family was my priority. We had endless talks. I'm rarely not with him and he always knows where I am and what I'm doing. I'm always contactable. We also have a very happy life together. He had a previous experience of being cheated on, and trying to fix the relationship by chasing and trying to 'spoil' the woman who cheated. This didn't work and just made him feel awful, and used. He said he wouldn't do that again, but felt reassured by me doing the work I am doing. I think he and I have always had a shared understanding that human beings, and relationships, are complex. 

Could it be you are dealing with repressed desires and that you don't want to admit to this yourself? 

I don't want another partner. Maybe coming to terms with the sexiality aspect is part of what I need to do, though. Weirdly, one thing I was almost grateful for, was that this part of me was uncovered, because it means I can know it and deal with it. But it doesn't make me want to leave my marriage, just as the existence of other men in the world doesn't. 

At some level, you must know that it might put your marriage at risk if you were to get involved with another woman. 

I think it would end it. Husband is understanding, but there is a limit to that. 

I just feel there is something missing from this story.

Maybe it's all the details of the platonic aspects of the friendship? Our kids are friends, I've trusted and confided in her for many years. I have a history of being stalked when I was younger, and I think some of my memories and anxieties about that have been triggered so some of my fear might be misplaced? I'm not sure. 

 

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, CasiXI said:

, haven't had the strength in the face of her saying it would be too awful for her. 

That her problem. She is a manipulative predator.

Focus on your own physical and mental health and your family. 

[CasiXI]

Hello again everyone. 

Since I last posted, the only contact I've had with my (ex) friend has been to cancel existing plans (which had been historical but rearranged because of the pandemic) and to tell her I can't see her. 

I was checking her social media daily (I'm not sure why - out of anxiety I think. I guess I wanted to have a way of telling how things were with her) but have now stopped that, too. 

Therapy is going well for me, I think, although it's early days. Last week, the therapist said it sounded as though the non-sexual intimacy of the friendship had felt very comforting to me. I cried. She asked why that made me upset and I wasn't sure but I think it was very comforting, although the phrase 'sleeping with the enemy' also came to mind. I miss the friendship and the person, too, or at least what I thought they were. 

I'm still struggling so much with feelings of deep shame. About secrecy and betrayal... I can't make sense of how things went the way they did to feel able to explain it and I feel really quite traumatised when I think about it. If I had some kind of breakdown or mental crisis, which is what my friend now thinks, how must that feel for her, if at the time she believed it was something else? 

I feel like I've done irreparable damage to the people I love the most in the world, and to myself. I don't know how it's possible to get over that. And because it evolved and happened over a long period of time, with me never feeling in control or safe in the situation, how can I ever trust myself or any friendship again? 

I'm not expecting answers to these questions, just saying how I feel, and giving an update. Thank you for reading. 

 

[Will am I]

I know you're not expecting answers but you seem to be in a place of hurt. So I'm answering anyway.

 

What if you didn't feel so guilty? I am writing this because I think you have a bigger problem dealing with your own feelings of guilt and shame than anything else.

 

You wrote in your first post that you at one point felt anger towards your friend for "abusing you". But did she? You were at a point where you desperately needed a pair of soft arms around your shoulders and even more desperately needed the intimacy. The impact of the same sex parent passing away is much bigger than we sometimes expect. The impact is not only emotional but also spiritual. On the emotional level you had a big distance with your mother because of the nasty things in the past. But these factors do not make the spiritual break any lighter. Sometimes even heavier. The result is that your mother's passing has impacted you much stronger than you anticipated.

 

So things got physical. Maybe they shouldn't have. Maybe it's not so big an issue as you make oit out to be.

I think you should come clean with your husband. As a man I can say that the idea of my wife getting physical with another woman is much less threatening and much less painful than with another man. If I felt she would really need this intimacy in a F/F relationship, I would probably allow it. If your husband responds in an understanding manner, would that lighten your feelings of guilt and shame?

 

[CasiXI]

On 4/22/2022 at 2:41 PM, Will am I said:

I know you're not expecting answers but you seem to be in a place of hurt. So I'm answering anyway.

Thank you - your reply felt really helpful. 

My husband knows everything other than the detail or seriousness of the sexual acts. He knows all the emotional aspects, the detail of the non-sexual intimacy like bed sharing, cuddling, kissing. And he knows there was a sexual element, and that there are details I have not told him. I think that to tell him the detail of the sexual parts would be painful but not empowering or productive. 

We have had many lengthy and emotional talks about what happened. Maybe I need to keep talking to him, and share how I am feeling. It's now been almost a year since the last sexual contact between me and the friend but I still struggle with how to move past it every day. I've done/am doing all I can to work on myself. I guess it's a work in progress. 

 

 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, CasiXI said:

I think that to tell him the detail of the sexual parts would be painful but not empowering or productive. 

He has a right to know that you cheated on him and it was not just emotional but sexual.   It really doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman it's still infidelity.

[Will am I]

I don’t think details help. They might hurt, they might make husband feel inadequate. And really what do they add to the story? 

“things got sexual”

he may or may not inquire what that means, like “how sexual”

It makes sense to give a global description. Was it kissing and touching with clothes on / under clothes or naked / was there touching directly on the most sensitive parts and maybe if it was brief or building up towards orgasm. 

Something like that contains all the relevant information for him to estimate how far the heart has strayed and how strong the f/f feelings are. It should be enough to base you response on as a life partner.

Any more details only add to the pain.

[Will am I]

[] 

 

Back to the topic:

I believe that CasiXI has a bit more sharing to do when it comes to the seriousness and possibly also about the frequency of the sexual escapades. Details, only relevant of she wants to copy these details into her marriage life. I don’t think it’s anywhere near that stage yet.

I advice gradual sharing. The biggest and most important point to expose if how it started and what was underneath. Spouse has to understand why she went off track in the marriage,  that’s at the heart of what needs to be repaired.

If spouse has listened and understood both partners have committed to the will of fixing the situation together, than it’s time to share more. But only if and when it adds to the healing process. Throwing everything on the table without seeking to confirm love and commitment in the relationship, that’s just violent.

Edited April 25, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Response to deleted post

[Wiseman2]

On 12/15/2021 at 6:35 PM, CasiXI said:

I have set very tight boundaries with my friend (meeting for coffee only, my partner always knows) 

Excellent. Work on your physical and mental health and sobriety. 

It would be best to make new friends and discontinue associating with this toxic "friend".

Join some groups and clubs, volunteer, get involved in sports and fitness, take some classes and courses.

Most of all, surround yourself with sober healthy people. If you have bisexual feelings, that's ok, but you're committed and married to a man right now so acting out is cheating.

Get rid of this predatory "friend". 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Wiseman2