Myabee Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 We need to be whole in ourselves to even have a shot at a good relationship in the first place. That, however, requires a lot of work. It requires taking the time to care for ourselves and enough self-reflection to identify what issues we need to address. It’s not work you do once and you’re done. It’s ongoing, never-ending work. But it’s worth it. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hgm1920 Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 I had a long talk with him today.. I asked "if you love me how can you see me sad knowing that you can change it" His answer "i don't know" I said you say you love me more than anyone.those are words. Where are the actions that proves your love? His answer "i dont want to prove anything to anyone" I asked "if you really wanted to marry me, you would have married me by now, what do you think" His answer " i do love you.i want to marry you but there are two reasons i dislike you.one is you fight with me.2nd is you suspect me" --- whenever i try to discuss something with him he seems to think its a fight even though I'm just chatting.and whenever i discuss an issue he says I'm pulling up useless stuff because of PMS. So i asked are there any couples who does not have arguments.he says we are not an ordinary couple.i asked so since we are having an affair are we supposed not to fight at all? No answer to that. I said i don't suspect him, if he has nothing to hide he can be open about his chats. After all we started through chat so better to be open with each other than having blind faith, no answer to that---- I asked so if these two "issues" were not there, would he have married me. He says he has to think about his parents relatives and kid.... He says at the begining he thought a lot along the lines of " i can't marry her.i am married.so i will one day have to let her go" so he says he never thought about starting a life with me, he was always afraid that i ll leave with someone else one day and everyday he has made his mind strong to face that. All said and done he agreed to think about what he will do. He says even though there is a dislike there is a desire to marry me too. But he does not know how to deal with family pressure and how he will look after the kid... He says he saw signs of warning from his wife before marriage and still married her and now he cant take a risk again. (By risk he means marrying me while having those two "problems") At the end of the day im still left with "if you love me how can you see me waiting like this" He says he thinks about his happiness first. That is why he is hesitant to marry... Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hgm1920 said: At the end of the day im still left with "if you love me how can you see me waiting like this" At the end of the day there is not one hope in hell that he will marry you... You have to see that. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Eeejay Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Quote His answer "i dont want to prove anything to anyone" In other words, you're demanding he show you with actions that what he's saying is true and his response tells you that he doesn't really give a damn whether you believe him or not. He does not care about you or your feelings. Quote whenever i try to discuss something with him he seems to think its a fight even though I'm just chatting.and whenever i discuss an issue he says I'm pulling up useless stuff because of PMS. Umm...eww? What the heck? THIS is the guy you're wasting years of your life pining over? Can you imagine being married to him? Eww. Quote he says we are not an ordinary couple. Correction - you are not a couple. At all. Quote He says he saw signs of warning from his wife before marriage and still married her and now he cant take a risk again. (By risk he means marrying me while having those two "problems") Soooo...he feels like his life partner should be perfect and flawless, or else he's not happy and being married isn't worth it to him? Does he just want a yes-woman to kiss his feet and tell him he's amazing? Is he suggesting that HE is perfect and flawless? God... Quote He says he thinks about his happiness first. That is why he is hesitant to marry... Oh WOW. Okay, so, a) he thinks about his happiness first - tells you ALL you need to know about what kind of man he is and what kind of husband he'd be, and b) HE IS MARRIED. I don't understand where the disconnect is here, for you, OP. He IS married already. Just not to you. Quote At the end of the day im still left with "if you love me how can you see me waiting like this" This is all you're ever going to be left with. See, this 'long talk' didn't solve or change anything. Nothing about this situation will EVER change, no matter how long you wait. At this point, your situation is your own doing, not his. YOU need to make the choice to stop waiting and find someone better than this jabroni. In truth, he sounds like a complete waste of space if you ask me. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
EleanorRigby2000 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Hgm1920 said: I had a long talk with him today.. I asked "if you love me how can you see me sad knowing that you can change it" His answer "i don't know" I said you say you love me more than anyone.those are words. Where are the actions that proves your love? His answer "i dont want to prove anything to anyone" I asked "if you really wanted to marry me, you would have married me by now, what do you think" His answer " i do love you.i want to marry you but there are two reasons i dislike you.one is you fight with me.2nd is you suspect me" --- whenever i try to discuss something with him he seems to think its a fight even though I'm just chatting.and whenever i discuss an issue he says I'm pulling up useless stuff because of PMS. Write these statements out on paper. Read them to yourself several times a day. These are the only answers you need. As hard as it will be, leave him. He may love you, but it doesn't sound like he is in love with you. It also sounds like he is very emotionally immature. It is better to be single than to be in a relationship with a man who doesn't want to show you with actions how much he loves and cares about you. He also said he dislikes you, truth is he doesn't seem to know how to communicate and dislikes that you want to communicate. Trust and communication are the foundations of a great relationship. Without those, the relationship will suffer. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) Basically, you heard I love you but - I’m indifferent to your sadness and suffering. I put my own happiness first and I don’t have to prove anything to anyone. I love you but the problem here - is you! He shifted the blame to you - you are too demanding, too argumentative, and you don’t trust me (this married man who has lied to you for five years about his intention to divorce and marry you - why would you ever trust him!! But, he thinks you should…). You are irrational because you have PMS. I can’t leave my marriage - I have to think about my parents, my family, my kid. everyone else comes before you - including him. Read this again - this is the man you say that you love. The man that you have spent the last five years of your life waiting for - When there are this many excuses, he doesn’t love you. This is not love. Does he have any intention of marrying you? No. Is that a bad thing? No. You should be very grateful - he gave you the great gift of honesty. This is not a good man. This is not a kind man with strength of character. This is not a man that want in your life. I hope you walk away and never look back - Edited December 20, 2021 by BaileyB 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hgm1920 said: i asked are there any couples who does not have arguments.he says we are not an ordinary couple. You are not a couple. You are not two single people or two married people in a relationship. This is an extramarital affair and the rules and expectations are entirely different - 1 hour ago, Hgm1920 said: He says at the begining he thought a lot along the lines of " i can't marry her.i am married.so i will one day have to let her go" so he says he never thought about starting a life with me This is your answer here - he has never thought about marrying you and sharing a life with you despite what he has said - 1 hour ago, Hgm1920 said: he was always afraid that i ll leave with someone else one day and everyday he has made his mind strong to face that. Of course you will leave to be with someone else - no woman will wait indefinitely for a man who can’t offer her a legitimate relationship - marriage, family, etc… He has always known that one day you were going to stop buying what this fool is trying to sell you and find the self respect to leave. It’s time to do that - if you want a partner, a relationship with a man and all that bring (marriage, family, etc…) you will need to find the courage to leave this liar and go and find a good, honest, and single man - Edited December 20, 2021 by BaileyB 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
glows Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hgm1920 said: I had a long talk with him today.. I asked "if you love me how can you see me sad knowing that you can change it" His answer "i don't know" I said you say you love me more than anyone.those are words. Where are the actions that proves your love? His answer "i dont want to prove anything to anyone" I asked "if you really wanted to marry me, you would have married me by now, what do you think" His answer " i do love you.i want to marry you but there are two reasons i dislike you.one is you fight with me.2nd is you suspect me" --- whenever i try to discuss something with him he seems to think its a fight even though I'm just chatting.and whenever i discuss an issue he says I'm pulling up useless stuff because of PMS. So i asked are there any couples who does not have arguments.he says we are not an ordinary couple.i asked so since we are having an affair are we supposed not to fight at all? No answer to that. I said i don't suspect him, if he has nothing to hide he can be open about his chats. After all we started through chat so better to be open with each other than having blind faith, no answer to that---- I asked so if these two "issues" were not there, would he have married me. He says he has to think about his parents relatives and kid.... He says at the begining he thought a lot along the lines of " i can't marry her.i am married.so i will one day have to let her go" so he says he never thought about starting a life with me, he was always afraid that i ll leave with someone else one day and everyday he has made his mind strong to face that. All said and done he agreed to think about what he will do. He says even though there is a dislike there is a desire to marry me too. But he does not know how to deal with family pressure and how he will look after the kid... He says he saw signs of warning from his wife before marriage and still married her and now he cant take a risk again. (By risk he means marrying me while having those two "problems") At the end of the day im still left with "if you love me how can you see me waiting like this" He says he thinks about his happiness first. That is why he is hesitant to marry... He has a few good points. He’s reluctant to marry you. Respectfully, you ask questions that seem to already hold answers and don’t seem to be able to read between the lines or see from his actions that he’s not prepared to leave his wife for you. You continue to push for marriage when he hasn’t even left his current wife. What you have done instead is found out and heard it straight from him but the message has always been the same. You’ve always known the answers. It also sounds like he has deep regrets with his current marriage. That’s a lot of baggage he’d do better dealing with in therapy for some time before starting a new relationship. Why take that on and be his clean up crew? Don’t you deserve far more in a partner? Edited December 20, 2021 by glows 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 These sorts of conversations with him are a waste of time, OP. None of what he says changes his marital status, and he has been clear he isn't going to leave his wife for you. Asking about the hypothetcials is an incredible exercise in futility. You've already clung on this fantasy way too long. It's time to start facing reality - there is no future with him. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
HowToQuit Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 You know what you can do after this conversation, OP? RUN!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hgm1920 Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 It's 1.30am here right now.. i find that i cant sleep well thinking about this issue and i came online to read this thread.... i guess i now see that he thinks about his happiness 1st... Link to post Share on other sites
HowToQuit Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Hgm1920 said: He says he thinks about his happiness first. That is why he is hesitant to marry... Given his strong push back on “suspicion” coupled with his proclaimed need for happiness and the fact that you two have not been intimate… he is 100% shagging someone else! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 'he's never thought about a life with you' He could not be any clearer about having zero plans to have a proper relationship with you, let alone marry you. I'm coming in late here, but in the years this affair has been going on, has he ever said anything about wanting a future with you? I'm wondering if you've been imagining something which has never been an option 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, basil67 said: in the years this affair has been going on, has he ever said anything about wanting a future with you? Based on what she has shared, he tells her that he loves her and he wants to marry her - but that has never been backed up by any actions. He has never kissed her, this has never progressed to become an actual relationship, and he has made absolutely no move to divorce. In fact, he’s told her all along that he won’t divorce - for a variety of different reasons including his family, her family, his child, etc… In one breath, he says he wants to marry her but in the next breath, he says he is not leaving. She has clearly chosen to believe the words that she wants to hear - regardless of the fact that it is quite literally all he has ever offered/promised her. So yes, she has been imagining something that was never an option - he said the words, and she believed them despite all evidence to the contrary. It’s a really difficult lesson to learn. Edited December 20, 2021 by BaileyB 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Myabee Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Hgm1920 said: had a long talk with him today.. I asked "if you love me how can you see me sad knowing that you can change it" His answer "i don't know" I said you say you love me more than anyone.those are words. Where are the actions that proves your love? His answer "i dont want to prove anything to anyone" This is typical conflict avoidant behavior.. My XMM sounds just as versed in bs as this guy. Really, 5 years is a long time to be in an affair that's going no where. You need to jump ship. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bittersweetie Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 I saw a saying today and think it could apply to your situation: "If you're receiving mixed signals, take that as a no." I agree with PP. It is time to move on. Please read up on sunk cost fallacy...I feel like you think because you've already invested five years, you need to invest more. You do not. Please put yourself first in 2022. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird2 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) OP, your story is really sad, and sorry to say it, he doesn't love you. When you love someone, you want what's best for them and what hurts them hurts you. He doesn't care if he;s hurting you so long as you are the good little OW and don't disrupt his life. I know you think of him as this good guy who is just being kowtowed by his wife, but really, stop and think about it for a minute. The way he's rating her is the way he treats women. There's shades of it in how he treats you-he's pretty mean to you-and he isn't taking your feelings into consideration. Even f he did marry you tomorrow, do you think he would suddenly change into mr. trustworthy who treats women well and cares what you think? You deserve better than this. Edited December 20, 2021 by pepperbird2 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hgm1920 Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 3 hours ago, HowToQuit said: Given his strong push back on “suspicion” coupled with his proclaimed need for happiness and the fact that you two have not been intimate… he is 100% shagging someone else! He is with me online on chat most of the day... i dont think there is anyone else... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hgm1920 Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 3 hours ago, basil67 said: 'he's never thought about a life with you' He could not be any clearer about having zero plans to have a proper relationship with you, let alone marry you. I'm coming in late here, but in the years this affair has been going on, has he ever said anything about wanting a future with you? I'm wondering if you've been imagining something which has never been an option Yes many times we have talked about marriage. Even which hotels to book for honeymoon.. where we will live, how we will travel to work etc Link to post Share on other sites
ElBee Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Just now, Hgm1920 said: Yes many times we have talked about marriage. Even which hotels to book for honeymoon.. where we will live, how we will travel to work etc It’s called future faking and is all a part of the fantasy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hgm1920 Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 hour ago, pepperbird2 said: sorry to say it, he doesn't love you. When you love someone, you want what's best for them and what hurts them hurts you. He doesn't care if he;s hurting you so long as you are the good little OW and don't disrupt his life. "When you love someone you want what's best for them and what hurts them hurts you" that is what i have been telling myself and him. He just never discusses it. Saying "i don't know" or "yes i'm sad but i need to be there for my kid" etc Loads of people get divorced. And still are good parents. If his marriage is loveless as he says i don't understand why he needs to be in it just for the kid ...... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hgm1920 Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, ElBee said: It’s called future faking and is all a part of the fantasy. I will read about future faking today.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hgm1920 Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 My heart says he loves me. My mind/ brain says hey if he loves you why isnt he marrying you. Why isnt he caring about your pain. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Just now, Hgm1920 said: "When you love someone you want what's best for them and what hurts them hurts you" that is what i have been telling myself and him. He just never discusses it. Saying "i don't know" or "yes i'm sad but i need to be there for my kid" etc Loads of people get divorced. And still are good parents. If his marriage is loveless as he says i don't understand why he needs to be in it just for the kid ...... Why not? Kids are important and his wife provides the care for his child. Why would he want to introduce strife and chaos into his kid's life? Trouble is you are providing the attention that allows him to stay in his marriage. He needs you both. One is just not enough. Future faking is a big part of many affairs, I am surprised you don't know about it. It takes the fun and fantasy into the future. It gives the affair a seriousness and an importance it usually doesn't have. One MM on here said that he future faked because it was fun but he never in a million years thought his OW would take it seriously. He thought, she, like him was merely indulging in a fantasy life. She did take it seriously, and was devastated when he told her of course he didn't mean it, he was married, how could he possibly have a life with her... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hgm1920 said: Why isnt he caring about your pain. Why would he? Your pain is not his pain... He takes what he can get from you to make himself happy, the fact you are not happy is of no consequence. Like so many men in affairs. It is all about HIM. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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