basil67 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Girl Fade Away said: I DO have trust in our connection and also our love if it gets to that point. What I do NOT fully trust is that he won't hurt me. Well of course. Break ups happen. Divorces happen. Cheating happens. All you can do is hope for the best and have confidence in your resilience to bounce back if it all goes pear shaped. Ultimately, it's all about you and your ability to cope if things go bad. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 2 hours ago, basil67 said: Well of course. Break ups happen. Divorces happen. Cheating happens. All you can do is hope for the best and have confidence in your resilience to bounce back if it all goes pear shaped. Ultimately, it's all about you and your ability to cope if things go bad. I still think she's conflating the inherent risk of opening one's heart and being in a romantic relationship with what it means to trust a specific person. These are really different concepts. Trusting a person doesn't necessarily mean having complete confidence that the relationship will never end, or that you will never experience the pain of losing someone you love. All relationships eventually end, even if by the death of one, leaving the other alone. Trusting means you believe that the other person would not abuse your vulnerability for selfish motives. In a healthy relationship we recognize our (and the other's) vulnerability and we trust them to honor, respect and care for it. That's not a guarantee that you'll never experience the pain of loss, it's just having faith in a person. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Girl Fade Away Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, salparadise said: In a healthy relationship we recognize our (and the other's) vulnerability and we trust them to honor, respect and care for it. That's not a guarantee that you'll never experience the pain of loss, it's just having faith in a person. Sal, see emboldened. Absolutely, and I am able to open my heart for this reason. Not afraid to be vulnerable. I believe I already stated that in an earlier post. But to fully trust, to me (and we all define in our own way), means having complete confidence that your partner would never hurt you and to me that is a faulty concept. Because again we are all flawed, we all make mistakes, who can make such a promise to their partner that they will never hurt them? I think this is realistic NOT unhealthy. What is unhealthy (again to me) is believing relationships are fairly tales - me Cinderella, my boyfriend, Prince Charming, he will forever protect me from big bad wolf and we go running off into sunset together forever and ever. THAT is unhealthy. Even marital vows - I vow to love and cherish you till death to us part. How realistic is this seriously? Who can make such a promise? Where I live, divorce rate is 85%! Anyway, this thread is getting off track, did not mean to make it about me. I'm fine. I've had great relationships and will again. And when I do, I will be open and vulnerable to him as I've always been. I will have trust and faith in our connection and hope we grow and evolve together and be the best we can be for ourselves and each other. For as long as it lasts. I won't make him promise he will never leave, never hurt me because he's not perfect, nor am I. It's an impossible promise for either of us to make and I think this is realistic thinking. Thanks guys! 💛 Edited December 20, 2021 by Girl Fade Away Link to post Share on other sites
Author Girl Fade Away Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 6 hours ago, basil67 said: Well of course. Break ups happen. Divorces happen. Cheating happens. All you can do is hope for the best and have confidence in your resilience to bounce back if it all goes pear shaped. Ultimately, it's all about you and your ability to cope if things go bad. 100% agree basil, you get me (not many do, lol), so thank you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 43 minutes ago, Girl Fade Away said: Because again we are all flawed, we all make mistakes, who can make such a promise to their partner that they will never hurt them? I'm having trouble with the word "hurt." That's a passive and vague word. People will feel hurt at times in the best of relationships. Over years with someone, you will feel lots of hurt. Now that hurt can range from feeling criticized unfairly, to feeling picked on, to feeling ignored, to feeling the other person is putting up distance ... and on and on ... all the way out to the other person cheating on us ... and further out ... the other person carrying on a long-term cheating relationship and maybe stealing money from us. No one can or should promise to never "hurt" someone else. Heck maybe I'm a night owl and my partner is an early bedder and I forget to turn down the music one night. Or I forget that she told me she's going to bed earlier than usual--and she feels I'm hurting her because I forgot and played the music loud. My partner might feel hurt. OK, if I'm responsive, so what?! If I'm responsive and our relationship is solid, I'll apologize, lower the music or turn it off and be more mindful the next time. And she'll move on. Now if our relationship is crap, then every minor problem can become a war. No human relationship can exist without some emotional pain involved. Parents cannot parent without at some point "hurting" the kid--or rather without the kid feeling seriously hurt. Best friends will have a strong disagreement on occasion. Siblings have fierce wars and rivalries and wounds. We humans can recover and thrive because all of life has its ups and downs. We have to develop some sense of personal safety and a life outside our partner. I'm trying to figure out if you mean "betray" and "cheat" or "break up out of nowhere." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Girl Fade Away Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said: I'm trying to figure out if you mean "betray" and "cheat" or "break up out of nowhere." Apologies I wasn't more clear. Yes, by 'hurt' I mean betray, cheat/deceive, break up, leave. Re feeling secure and safe, no one not even my partner can make me feel 'safe.' I used to believe that but now I believe safety and security come from within, not from our partner. I realize my thinking may seem a bit "off" to some people but I truly believe at the end of day, we are all responsible for ourselves. And our own ability to feel secure and safe within ourselves and within a relationship. Relying on another person to feel safe and secure is placing a lot of pressure on that person to live up to what you need and should be giving yourself. If we don't feel such safety and security, then perhaps it's time to introspect to determine why. And also re-evaluate if it's the right and best relationship for you. Edited December 20, 2021 by Girl Fade Away Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 36 minutes ago, Girl Fade Away said: I realize my thinking may seem a bit "off" to some people but I truly believe at the end of day, we are all responsible for ourselves. And our own ability to feel secure and safe within ourselves and within a relationship. Relying on another person to feel safe and secure is placing a lot of pressure on that person to live up to what you need and should be giving yourself. Your thinking isn't off at all. Yes, everything starts with our own personal peace and security. many of us have dated people we loved greatly but ran into frustration because the person really couldn't receive and build on that love. With one of my exes, she needed extreme affirmations every day--the acceptance of the previous day never lasted. She couldn't reassure herself or hold onto the memory of being loved. But she was emotionally abused by her mother. I met her mom when my ex was in the hospital once, and I was stunned. The mom had NO maternal instincts. I was way more tender. I could rub my ex's arm or kiss her on the forehead and adjust her pillow. Her mom could do NONE of that. And I'm sure that is a big reason my ex had trouble feeling loved. Now, this gets interesting because we can meet people who do help us feel more secure. It's not magic--as if they can pour "security" into our veins. That's the fantasy that causes ruin---thinking that getting loved by someone solves our problems. Nope. But someone who is loving and who sees us--really sees and accepts us--can give us a boost towards inner peace. We are inherently social creatures--so we don't develop peace and security all by ourselves. Interesting, some of my exes--including some who dumped me and some I dumped--definitely help me appreciate myself. Didn't matter so much that they didn't want to be with me or me with them. I was left with some great perspectives on myself. This was when their praise or perspectives were really really specific. Generic praise doesn't really last. But really specific stuff--when I feel truly seen and aceepted and maybe even a bit stunned and initially embarrassed about a quirk--totally lasts. Link to post Share on other sites
dramafreezone Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 14 hours ago, Girl Fade Away said: I DO have trust in our connection and also our love if it gets to that point. What I do NOT fully trust is that he won't hurt me. I don't think true love is about not getting hurt. It's always a risk. But that other person is risking too right? You may hurt him, so you're not the only one risking. With love you get out what you put in. To get the maxiumum trust in that person you have to give it yourself. Trust is earned, it just takes time to build, but if you find that your trust isn't growing over time then that's probably an issue to tend to. Is it him that's giving you a real reason not to trust more or are you letting past negative experiences influence this one? What I do know is that if the potential negative outcome dominates your thoughts you won't have as good of a relationship as you can have, and you won't make the best decisions for yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 On 12/19/2021 at 12:00 PM, Girl Fade Away said: Hey guys (and gals), hope everyone has been enjoying the holidays! So I've been doing quite a bit of soul searching lately, reading and talking to others, and I'm beginning to wonder now if absolute true love and passion can exist without at least some emotional turmoil. Without any jealousy, possessiveness, emotional upheaval. .... Not sure why but reading that made me feel a bit sad.. Thoughts? Of course you can have through the roof passion without emotional turmoil, and without jealous or possessiveness. Caveat, we are all human an may for a moment (and by a moment mean a minute) feel a bit jealous or possessive but it last but a minute and is not retained. It is easy not to feel jealous or possessive when one has trust along with such passion, as you know there is nothing ever to worry about. It really comes down to trust and functional communication. One doesn't need fights to have passion either, I can tell you from direct experience. Sure disagreements but where each person seeks understanding, no yelling, no venting of spleen and certainly no accusations, no blaming. The most passionate and erotic relationships have had are also the most calm, nurturing and romantic. Passion of course does often come with attachment, as it is hard to be without that person. :) The relationship you quoted about, the very definition of dysfunction. Saying that you need drama and emotional turmoil to get passion is just a dysfunctional person's apologetics and rationalization for being in a unhealthy relationship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Girl Fade Away Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: I don't think true love is about not getting hurt. It's always a risk. But that other person is risking too right? You may hurt him, so you're not the only one risking dramafreeze, I never said true love isn't about not getting hurt. To the contrary, going back to what basil67 posted, the ability to be resilient and KNOWING you will be OK no matter what happens, whether you get hurt, or hurt your partner, or hurt each other. I also understand love and vulnerability involve risk. You must be willing to risk getting hurt, otherwise imo you have no business being in a RL in the first place. That is where resilience, along with good self-esteem and confidence come into play. 16 minutes ago, SumGuy said: The most passionate and erotic relationships have had are also the most calm, nurturing and romantic. That's nice to hear SumGuy, I hope I get to experience that someday. 16 minutes ago, SumGuy said: The relationship you quoted about, the very definition of dysfunction. Saying that you need drama and emotional turmoil to get passion is just a dysfunctional person's apologetics and rationalization for being in a unhealthy relationship. I agree, hence the reason for this thread. Edited December 20, 2021 by Girl Fade Away Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Linking to this recent thread by Alpaca that seems to bear on much the same issues. Believe any general answers I would put in this thread were covered there + there is other good content as well... MC 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Saying that romance involves the risk of getting hurt is like saying that driving a car has a risk of getting into a crash. Or like saying that eating a good meal at a restaurant has risks of getting hurt (pre-covid risks--maybe the food has Salmonella or a fight breaks out at the restaurant or I get a rude server). It's not a risk I think about. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 True that ^ All of life is a risk. And living a cloistered life without perceived risk is a risk in itself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 It is very much possible. The best couples I have seen including my wife and I have great passionate loves in a healthy without negative drama. Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 12 hours ago, Girl Fade Away said: Apologies I wasn't more clear. Yes, by 'hurt' I mean betray, cheat/deceive, break up, leave. I completely trusted that the women in my stable relationships wouldn’t do those things. In my tumultuous relationships I didn’t trust the women. That’s what caused the turmoil, but also extended the intensity. Trust is the the foundation of every healthy relationship. And certainly more important than lust / passion / intensity etc. Link to post Share on other sites
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