The Three Tiers of Dating and Sexual Market Value

[Woggle]

Being short is not as much of a minus offline as people think. Spiderman is dating a woman taller than him right now.

[Girl Fade Away]

My boss is around 5'5" (he is shorter than I when I wear flats).  His wife is a gorgeous approx 5'8" (taller with heels) and they both have such a presence, individually and as a couple. 

Dynamite looking couple, I'd upload a picture but don't think it would be appropriate.

[GuitarGuy7]

Then when am I so terrible with women? 

Why do I keep getting rejected by every single woman? 

[SumGuy]

On 12/23/2021 at 2:13 PM, Elswyth said:

Gosh, for real. Believing in this sort of schmuck sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one... because nobody who would actually make a good partner would WANT a partner who believes this crap.

Like, if someone was having a hard time dating, you'd think they'd listen to regular people who have happy relationships with other regular people, rather than to a bunch of other unsuccessful people screaming into the echo chamber of r/TheRedPill (or wherever it is those dudes went after that subreddit got removed)....

Yah have to agree.  Have never seen these folks "... the chads, the stacys, the young attractive women, the tall good looking successful men, etc..."having an easy or more important fulfilling time of it, look past the image.  The frequency of ONS is not a measure of success for most even the afore said mentioned.

[Envy123]

There are plenty of people on the "bottom tier" who are in relationships. They choose to suppress their issues, but this is not sustainable as this will manifest somewhere else.

An example. An ex-coworker of mine used to complain that she couldn't get a relationship. She got one eventually. She still wasn't happy and ended up bullying people, including me. She was particularly jealous that I am in the jewellery industry and made nasty comments and abused me, until she finally blocked me.

That's why I'll always say to work on yourself first and only then get into a relationship.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Envy123

[Weezy1973]

On 12/25/2021 at 12:53 PM, GuitarGuy7 said:

Then when am I so terrible with women? 

Why do I keep getting rejected by every single woman? 

Your height and your autism together made getting dates difficult when you were younger, so then you lost confidence. And you haven’t recovered. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Envy123 said:

There are plenty of people on the "bottom tier" who are in relationships.

Agree. Just walk around town or the supermarket or stores. It's not all Hollywood A-listers who have partners.

It's everyday people, many of whom you might describe as "plain".

[elaine567]

But the  "bottom tier"  in this  classification is not about looks per se, it is about anyone who finds it hard or impossible to date.
 

[Envy123]

11 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree. Just walk around town or the supermarket or stores. It's not all Hollywood A-listers who have partners.

It's everyday people, many of whom you might describe as "plain".

When I meant "bottom tier", I meant the people who either:

1). have lots of issues in life and then proceed to go into a relationship head-first, instead of working on themselves and resolving the skeletons in their closet first.

or

2). struggle to find a partner throughout their entire life.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Envy123

[GuitarGuy7]

11 hours ago, Envy123 said:

When I meant "bottom tier", I meant the people who either:

1). have lots of issues in life and then proceed to go into a relationship head-first, instead of working on themselves and resolving the skeletons in their closet first.

or

2). struggle to find a partner throughout their entire life.

I wouldn't consider people in the first option bottom tier though. If you're able to get relationships fairly easily, you're definitely not bottom tier. Remember, when I'm talking about dating/sexual market value, I'm talking about your ability to attract partners, and higher quality partners as well. 

[Weezy1973]

21 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

Remember, when I'm talking about dating/sexual market value, I'm talking about your ability to attract partners, and higher quality partners as well. 

Like attracts like. There’s no reason for anyone to lack sexual partners or relationships. As stated previously, there are a number of self described incels that are perfectly capable of dating successfully. They just don’t like their options. Therefore they’re voluntarily celibate. And that’s fine. 

[GuitarGuy7]

I mean on the bright side, at least I won't have to pass on my crappy genetics onto the next generation. If I had kids, they'd probably have a whole range of issues and i'd be setting them up for failure from the start. So for the sake of mankind, it's probably best that I don't spawn more humans. 

 

[Envy123]

5 hours ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I wouldn't consider people in the first option bottom tier though. If you're able to get relationships fairly easily, you're definitely not bottom tier. Remember, when I'm talking about dating/sexual market value, I'm talking about your ability to attract partners, and higher quality partners as well. 

I didn't say that they got them easily. It is still dating on hard mode and took them a long time to do it. They still achieved it, despite the serious negative flaws that they have.

[dramafreezone]

13 hours ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I mean on the bright side, at least I won't have to pass on my crappy genetics onto the next generation. If I had kids, they'd probably have a whole range of issues and i'd be setting them up for failure from the start. So for the sake of mankind, it's probably best that I don't spawn more humans. 

I think you want success but you're not willing to put in the work to get there, simple as that.

If you want to be a "Chad," then do that.  That takes improving your looks, improving your finances, dressing well.  "Chads" have invested in themselves, you have to do the same.  Many of them may have started off with natural attritubutes that you don't have, but such is life.  You have to work harder to get the same results as them.

I'm not going to sit up here and tell you that some don't have it easier than others with dating.  Of course they do.  Some people are just born with qualities, be it charisma, charm, humor, they didn't do anything to get that, they had it naturally. But it's not any different from those that are born skinnier, or taller.  They didn't do anything to earn that, they just had it naturally.  That said, none of that matters at this point, it's about how well you can do with what you have.

Some don't understand that their lived experiences don't apply to others.  If you were to tell some attractive male celebrity about your classes, he'd think you were ridiculous because he has no way of understanding anyone having difficulty attracting women.  So people that haven't lived anything close to your experience won't understand, so you have to ignore them in a sense.

I think I have lived close to your experience, and I don't totally disagree with your assessment of the "classes."   I only disagree that you're stuck at whatever level in which you currently reside.  It takes time, money and effort, but you can be a "Chad," it simply takes time and dedication.  Maybe it's not fair that you have to put in a lot of time and others may not have to put in as much, but that's the way it is.  You don't feel you should have to put in time?  Then you don't really want it bad enough.

Edited December 28, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Taramere]

On 12/25/2021 at 7:16 PM, Woggle said:

Being short is not as much of a minus offline as people think. Spiderman is dating a woman taller than him right now.

In fairness, Spiderman's expertise in climbing tall structures is well evidenced.

Quote

I mean on the bright side, at least I won't have to pass on my crappy genetics onto the next generation. If I had kids, they'd probably have a whole range of issues and i'd be setting them up for failure from the start. So for the sake of mankind, it's probably best that I don't spawn more humans. 

I've seen a lot of kids out there who tower over their parents.  I've also encountered plenty of short men who were very attractive to women.  I'd say they had personalities that somehow went with their height...and I don't necessarily mean larger than life personalities like Danny de Vito or whatever it is that Joe Pesci has.

Jockeys are generally very small, and lots of them seem to be womanisers.  Flat jockeys are usually between 4 ft 10" and 5 ft 6"...so an average height of 5 ft 2".  I'm not saying you have to pull on a pair of jodhpurs, but there are sports where being small is a distinct advantage.  

[Johnjohnson2017]

GuitarGuy7

You got to get rid of the hate you feel. People want to hang out around positive, upbeat people. They want to laugh and joke around. Work on your attitude as well as your appearance. Learn jokes, watch comedians etc. Also, cultivate yourself so you can converse about many topics. That might not help you with young immature women, but will definetely help with grownup women. Be very selective about who you would like to date. Recognize in advance which type of women you would not be compatible with and who would reject you. Don't ask out indiscriminately. Get to know someone before you ask them out. 

Internet dating is not for you. You want a situation where a woman can slowly get to know you. Improve yourself physically, culturally and mentally and you will find a woman who will appreciate you more than a friend.

[Shining One]

It comes down to statistical desirability. You have two attributes that are undesirable to women. Let's say a man with desirable attributes has to ask out three women to get one date, making his ratio 1:3. I'm statistically undesirable in my area due to ethnicity, so I have a 1:15 ratio. I have no idea what your ratio would be, but the solution is the same as mine: Add more numbers. Languishing about your lot in life accomplishes nothing. Accept the hand that fate has dealt you and put in the work. It certainly helps if you live in an area with a seemingly unending supply of women like I do.

[Foxhall]

2 hours ago, Taramere said:

Jockeys are generally very small, and lots of them seem to be womaniser

thats a good example of small guys who have no bother attracting the ladies,

[ ]

on the plus side they are fit guys and they would have benefitted from having to graft hard put in the hardship to get to where they are,

all that too gives a person an edge and a confidence -and attracting the women is a natural benefit.

have to fight your corner too find that inner steel to better yourself.

Edited December 28, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude

[GuitarGuy7]

44 minutes ago, Johnjohnson2017 said:

Recognize in advance which type of women you would not be compatible with and who would reject you. Don't ask out indiscriminately. Get to know someone before you ask them out. 

Internet dating is not for you. You want a situation where a woman can slowly get to know you. Improve yourself physically, culturally and mentally and you will find a woman who will appreciate you more than a friend.

I agree. I should play to my strengths and not to my weaknesses. 

Any avenue that's based on pure physical attraction and short term fun, I would probably do pretty terrible at. Meeting women on Tinder or at bars would probably be a waste of time since I'm assuming that bar games is mostly based on physical appearance and flirting skills, two things I am terrible at. I would probably do terrible with women who's idea of "fun" is drinking, partying, and hooking up. These women are more likely to look for short term fun, plus i'm not a drinker or partyer so what would we have in common? 

[GuitarGuy7]

I think right now though, I should be taking a break from women. Iv'e already wasted a ton of time being obsessed with women and girls and absolutely not getting anywhere. 

Sometimes, I wish I could just make myself aromantic and asexual. I'd probably be 2x happier in life if I didn't care about women. 

[Happy Lemming]

40 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I agree. I should play to my strengths and not to my weaknesses.

Are there any amateur venues where you could play your guitar for a set or two??  Coffee shops, small pubs, etc.??  I remember this small used bookstore (in one town I lived in), the owner allowed struggling musicians to play there (to get exposure).  Anything like that in your town/locality??  I imagine that may be a way to play towards your strengths...

43 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

Any avenue that's based on pure physical attraction and short term fun, I would probably do pretty terrible at. Meeting  at bars would probably be a waste of time since I'm assuming that bar games is mostly based on physical appearance and flirting skills, two things I am terrible at. I would probably do terrible with women who's idea of "fun" is drinking, partying, and hooking up. These women are more likely to look for short term fun, plus i'm not a drinker or partyer so what would we have in common? 

Not everyone who goes to a bar/pub is a "bar fly" or a heavy drinker, etc.  Some people just stop off for a drink after work, or have a few beers with a friend while watching the game.

I met a very nice and very professional Nurse Practitioner at an Irish Bar one night.  She was there with a woman friend, just having a drink when we struck up a conversation. This woman was NOT a heavy drinker and neither was I. We exchanged numbers and dated for a while. And "no" our dates did not revolve around drinking and going to the bars. 

I think you want to make up excuses as to why you don't want to go into a bar/pub (or other public venue) and put in the work to meet women.  If you are afraid that is fine, I'll help you beat that fear.  What I can't fix is... lack of motivation, if you really want to date and meet women, you have to try... you have to be willing to put in the effort.

[GuitarGuy7]

Yeah, i'm never going to be a chad. 

Telling me that I could become a chad with enough hard work, is like telling a short kid who's slow and with poor athleticism that he could play D1 basketball if he worked hard. 

We all have different levels of potential in various aspects of life. Don't get me wrong, anybody can improve at anything, but some people simply have more potential than others. 

If I worked hard for many years, I might be able to find a decent girlfriend who may not be super attractive, but is maybe cute. But with my potential, i'm never going to be the type of guy who's going to sleep with a lot of women (unless I pay for it) and i'm probably not going to have any one night stands or hookups. I'm the type of guy, due to my limited potential, where i'll probably only have one or two sex partners in my life. And that's just assuming I work hard and get everything right. I have a very good chance of being a virgin into my thirties, and maybe even my forties. 

[GuitarGuy7]

Now if my main problems were fixable then it might be possible. For instance, if I were 6 ft tall with broad shoulders but girls didn't like me because I was 100 pounds overweight, then it might be possible that I become chad tier if I lost weight and became fit. 

My problems though (height and autism) are not fixable, therefore I will never become a chad even if I did everything right. BUT that doesn't mean that I can't find a girlfriend someday, it's just going to be harder the average person and I may have to wait longer, of course I knew this already. 

[Happy Lemming]

7 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

 BUT that doesn't mean that I can't find a girlfriend someday, it's just going to be harder the average person and I may have to wait longer, of course I knew this already. 

Are you presently trying??  And I don't mean putting yourself on some OLD app...

Are you going out into the real world and trying??  When is the last time you went to a public venue and tried to talk to people?? 

A girlfriend isn't going to come knock on your door, you have to get out there and try.

[Foxhall]

9 hours ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

If I worked hard for many years, I might be able to find a decent girlfriend who may not be super attractive, but is maybe cute. But with my potential, i'm never going to be the type of guy who's going to sleep with a lot of women (unless I pay for it) and i'm probably not going to have any one night stands or hookups. I'm the type of guy, due to my limited potential, where i'll probably only have one or two sex partners in my life. And that's just assuming I work hard and get everything right. I have a very good chance of being a virgin into my thirties, and maybe even my forties. 

Good that you are realistic actually,

maybe go easy on running yourself down so much, there will always be someone else to do that for you.

your target for this new year could be even being able to make a woman friend or two on the year, that you will feel more positive by this time next year,

there was a good piece on one of these threads a while ago,

about the a-z guide,

if your in the company of a woman and struggling for something to say,

start going through the letters- a is for avocado, b is for Brazil,  

as an opening line refer to the environment around you, compliment her handbag or her jewellery or something.

Obviously there will be more to it than holding a conversation, but without that you can stay at home.

if your with another shy person- you will have to take the lead try and bring the conversation along and that will help her settle

being able to hold a conversation will at least get you to the table, 

some women will be easier to talk too than others but if you feel your able to start conversations and things that will help build your confidence.