Society's idea of 'personality' is deceptive and the right person may not like it

[DrasticMeasurements]

Most of us have heard "it's your personality that turns women/men off". This is told to guys but I've seen slightly more women being told the same. The context of a good personality is predominantly seen as following:

-Overly extroverted/gregarious

-Witty sense of humor

-Is very playful, and can tolerate a partner playing "hard to get"

-The life of the party in a social setting

I don't find these things attractive, and I tend to distance myself from friends/acquaintances who are like that. I'm personally an ISTJ and don't see logic in having a sense of humor. Yes, I can laugh at other jokes, but I'm far more analytic and can use logic to calm situations. Think of John King from CNN making election predictions "90% of votes are in from this county." Instead of being someone shouting at the candidate who is ahead, I'd be saying "relax, the votes are from Philadelphia. The other guy can catch up".

 

Having said this, CHARACTER is what truly matters. Kindness, honesty and listening to someone. On those traits, relationships will stand. Without them, they fail. Now people will say looks don't matter because it's about what is on the inside that matters. If you mean inside as in having a flashy personality, then I'd disagree because good looks or physical fitness can make up for a charming personality when getting to know somebody. You can be a good looking person who is not a jerk or lacks character. It depends on the person. I've recently started realizing that I really like women who are in STEM fields/majors because they can relate to my pattern of thinking. I'd give the same advice to women who feel like asking "why do men like a chase" the answer is the decent ones DON'T. As I mentioned earlier, I don't hang out with guys who subscribe to this "chase" mentality as I'm more traditional. At first, I felt a bit jealous that someone I knew from church was striking up conversations in a loud pup (Pitch 25 in Houston) until the next hour he talked about "simping" and "nice guy syndrome" and then I figured out that I don't have to conform to Red Pill nonsense just to attract someone that doesn't share my conservative values. We barely talk anymore.

So that's my theory. If real nice guys (not fake manipulators) could work on their physical features and lose weight, they'd be in a much better situation without having to alter their personality (according to Red Pill logic) just to attract the women that aren't good marriage material. On top of that, I doubt that playing "hard to get" was a common pastime in days when Americans got married much younger. You didn't have time to play games when people married at 22, after a couple of relationships that supposedly followed the same pattern.

Tl:dr Character is essential for a good relationship and having a charismatic personality isn't the only thing that attracts everyone, especially a values-based person.

[poppyfields]

I don't think eirher good character or personality create attraction; I think it has more to do with the mutual energy between two individuals, along with mental, physical and sexual chemistry.  

These things cannot really be defined, they simply 'exist' between two people, they are intangible.

That said, to maintain that attraction and develop a good mutually-rewarding "healthy" relationship, good character comes into play as well as compatible personalities. 

What constitutes a compatible and 'good' personality is so subjective, some like outgoing and gregarious, some like more quiet and reserved, etc there is no "one size fits all," it's different for everyone.

So I DO agree with you about that!

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by poppyfields

[elaine567]

Thing is, life is hard for most.
So having a sense of humour and being fun is seen as something in a partner most find  attractive.
Who really wants to spend their life with someone who is humourless and is as dull as ditchwater?

It does not follow that people who are reserved and quiet are the one's with good character. 
One can be quiet and reserved and still be a nasty piece of work.

Most people do not work on the either/or principle.
They want as full a package as they can get. 
Good looks, charm, sociable, GSOH, reliable, kind, decent, honest and true.
Good personality and good character and good looks (or good enough looks.)

Mostly they want someone who fits into their life.

[Foxhall]

13 hours ago, DrasticMeasurements said:

Having said this, CHARACTER is what truly matters. Kindness, honesty and listening to someone.

Id say your right on that- character is what sustains a relationship,

many broken relationships Ive seen, are mainly due to once the initial charisma or wow factor fades away- they go seeking for that all over again rather than committing to the relationship,

Your overall thoughts strikes me as being a little rigid perhaps, but Im sure as you say you can find someone on a similar line of thinking,

I think its important to have a bit of intrigue and adventure about a person- not so much a sparkling personality- if you dont have the exuberant personality, you can find other ways to be interesting,

I have been told am a bit of a pandoras box, never quite know whats coming next, and I think the ladies like that.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, DrasticMeasurements said:

he talked about "simping" and "nice guy syndrome" and then I figured out that I don't have to conform to Red Pill nonsense just to attract someone that doesn't share my conservative values. We barely talk anymore.

Yes, distance yourself from this fool. He's into hate groups and talking nonsense.

This PUA rubbish about "act like a cocky clown" is just regurgitated nonsense form manosphere sites. Think for yourself.

The best thing you can do is be yourself. Of course it's important to take care of your physical and mental health, stay in shape, good grooming, etc. Being free of addictions and bad habits. Be financially responsible and have your own place, car and job.

It's also important to have values, goals, integrity as well as a friendly, relatable, approachable personality.

[glows]

18 hours ago, DrasticMeasurements said:

Most of us have heard "it's your personality that turns women/men off". This is told to guys but I've seen slightly more women being told the same. The context of a good personality is predominantly seen as following:

-Overly extroverted/gregarious

-Witty sense of humor

-Is very playful, and can tolerate a partner playing "hard to get"

-The life of the party in a social setting

I don't find these things attractive, and I tend to distance myself from friends/acquaintances who are like that. I'm personally an ISTJ and don't see logic in having a sense of humor. Yes, I can laugh at other jokes, but I'm far more analytic and can use logic to calm situations. Think of John King from CNN making election predictions "90% of votes are in from this county." Instead of being someone shouting at the candidate who is ahead, I'd be saying "relax, the votes are from Philadelphia. The other guy can catch up".

 

Having said this, CHARACTER is what truly matters. Kindness, honesty and listening to someone. On those traits, relationships will stand. Without them, they fail. Now people will say looks don't matter because it's about what is on the inside that matters. If you mean inside as in having a flashy personality, then I'd disagree because good looks or physical fitness can make up for a charming personality when getting to know somebody. You can be a good looking person who is not a jerk or lacks character. It depends on the person. I've recently started realizing that I really like women who are in STEM fields/majors because they can relate to my pattern of thinking. I'd give the same advice to women who feel like asking "why do men like a chase" the answer is the decent ones DON'T. As I mentioned earlier, I don't hang out with guys who subscribe to this "chase" mentality as I'm more traditional. At first, I felt a bit jealous that someone I knew from church was striking up conversations in a loud pup (Pitch 25 in Houston) until the next hour he talked about "simping" and "nice guy syndrome" and then I figured out that I don't have to conform to Red Pill nonsense just to attract someone that doesn't share my conservative values. We barely talk anymore.

So that's my theory. If real nice guys (not fake manipulators) could work on their physical features and lose weight, they'd be in a much better situation without having to alter their personality (according to Red Pill logic) just to attract the women that aren't good marriage material. On top of that, I doubt that playing "hard to get" was a common pastime in days when Americans got married much younger. You didn't have time to play games when people married at 22, after a couple of relationships that supposedly followed the same pattern.

Tl:dr Character is essential for a good relationship and having a charismatic personality isn't the only thing that attracts everyone, especially a values-based person.

 

Negative comments are usually not endearing. Manipulative behaviour only gets the manipulator in hot soup especially as he/she finds that others draw away as true colours come through. And yes, of course character matters. 

Relationships are more complex than ensuring someone is of good character and people are not static. They change and are ever shifting. Adaptability matters.

Also, why box yourself in a four letter word “ISTJ” or cling rigidly to what the letters represent? Your letters may change in 10 or 20 years. Logic is needed anywhere. Balance is better.

Someone who is gregarious one day may not be the next. Someone in a relationship may feel more playful with a partner that brings that out in them as opposed to a previous partner. These are ever shifting. 

Remain true to yourself and your journey. Authenticity comes to mind. Others may call it integrity and I think that’s interchangeable. 

 

[mark clemson]

Hmm. I'm going to respectfully disagree with the premise here. I'm not at all sure that everyone is seeking a "life of the party" extreme extrovert type. Some folks probably are and some folks probably find it attractive, but I think many would feel otherwise and could be thinking "this person's not for me" for various reasons.

I think there's plenty of "low-key" easygoing types who aren't super-social but also are nonetheless good conversationalists or considered to have an "attractive" personality (or perhaps a "neutral" one, but they have other good qualities that generate attraction/interest).

I think a lot of the impact of personality is in the "negatives" - easily triggered to anger, obviously bitter, tendency to lash out/vent on their partner, spacey, too into niche hobbies, awkward/poor social skills, addictive behavior, etc, etc.

[chillii]

Yeah agree with above and as for life of the party, there's usually only 1 or 2 in the whole place anyway, that's reality. Very few people have that and most women steer clear of too much of it anyway and few take them seriously, same with men of women.

All kinds of people and personalities in marriages and relationships op, anything you could think of. All these lists around the net come from clone world l think and the people writing them must want a formula to pick up the masses bc the rest are all different people. And yeah depth of character is highly valued to among those that actually have some themselves it's about somebody that thinks and feels at least similar to you about things op or at least the important things. When you find that your onto something . 

Edited December 27, 2021 by chillii

[DrasticMeasurements]

23 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Hmm. I'm going to respectfully disagree with the premise here. I'm not at all sure that everyone is seeking a "life of the party" extreme extrovert type. Some folks probably are and some folks probably find it attractive, but I think many would feel otherwise and could be thinking "this person's not for me" for various reasons.

I think there's plenty of "low-key" easygoing types who aren't super-social but also are nonetheless good conversationalists or considered to have an "attractive" personality (or perhaps a "neutral" one, but they have other good qualities that generate attraction/interest).

I think a lot of the impact of personality is in the "negatives" - easily triggered to anger, obviously bitter, tendency to lash out/vent on their partner, spacey, too into niche hobbies, awkward/poor social skills, addictive behavior, etc, etc.

Some of the negative personality traits are predominant in a lot of people. The question is, how defining it is. If they always lash out or shut out the other person, then it's a reflection of their character and total turn off. But if it's a one-time thing or they had a bad day or two, that's acceptable if they can communicate an apology. Social skills can be basic manners or expected politeness.

 

An interesting point about "pick up" ideologies, they originated in Toronto, CA. Plus, when I used to scoop out flirting and necessity of banter on certain spheres of the internet, I was surprised to find that the people on thestudentroom.co.uk (British wesbite) generally said it's as important in a relationship as air. Which can suck if you're on the ASD spectrum or introverted since banter is based on quick wit. My point is that sexual tension is likely normal if you're attracted to somebody, but in more liberal societies or the bar culture here in U.S., it's something the guy has to "build up"/neg and show his sexual side without being a creep, which is a civilian minefield. Physical attraction can be that sexual tension, complementing or taking the place of someone who isn't good at flirting, especially in areas where overtly sexual advances are inappropriate.

[mark clemson]

46 minutes ago, DrasticMeasurements said:

if it's a one-time thing or they had a bad day or two, that's acceptable if they can communicate an apology. Social skills can be basic manners or expected politeness.

Quite true.

 

46 minutes ago, DrasticMeasurements said:

My point is that sexual tension is likely normal if you're attracted to somebody, but in more liberal societies or the bar culture here in U.S., it's something the guy has to "build up"/neg and show his sexual side without being a creep, which is a civilian minefield. Physical attraction can be that sexual tension, complementing or taking the place of someone who isn't good at flirting, especially in areas where overtly sexual advances are inappropriate.

Yes, social skills are quite important in flirting/build up to romance + there are myriad opportunities to get it wrong in specific instances, unfortunately. No doubt ASD makes it substantially more difficult. Also some people seem to mess things up (deliberately or no) e.g. by sending "signals" then backing out after some free drinks or dinners, etc. C'est la humanity.

IF you're a quite good looking male, IMO there's no real reason to mention anything sexual at all. Just meet + make conversation, smile a lot and be friendly, etc. After a few dates many (not all) women should essentially start to bring up the sex aspect themselves as they will want to have sex and/or "lock you down" into an established relationship (which sex often will do if you aren't "multidating"). However, reading body language can be quite important if you go this route, as e.g. you should be able to "read" her leaning in (or not rejecting your "lean in") to kiss. Holding hands for a while, e.g. on a walk together, before kissing is a good sign, as IMO typically if you've been holding hands for a reasonably extended time beforehand a kiss is much less likely to be rejected.

Edited December 27, 2021 by mark clemson

[DrasticMeasurements]

As far as humor is concerned, I'd say a major reason why I'm more serious is due to my exposure with "funny" people in early high school. Due to problems with ARD I was in courses with the "problem" students (it got better by Junior year). It wasn't just bullying I faced but also putting up with their shticks in class like telling the teacher that scolded them: "girl you trippin" so everybody laughed. They also made lots of sexual and drug jokes in between all the cursing and they seemed so entertaining. As of now, most of them are in prison or on their third child with a guy/girl who left them. If you watch Beyond Scared Straight, a lot of the dumb kids on that show are smiling at the inmates and treating it like a joke.

For a while I felt that if this is what women meant by wanting a funny guy, I didn't understand it.

I believe humor can be a sign of higher intelligence just by knowledge of humor styles like puns or sarcasm, not necessarily by being funny all the time.  Also, it's common to have a serious personality and throw out one good joke in a while instead of shooting from the hip like the clowns I was around. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by DrasticMeasurements

[DrasticMeasurements]

The reason I can't do flirting is because I'm not witty enough. If I was asked to name 5 famous people in history who were NOT politicians, it would take me a full minute. Yet, I can do data research and advanced calculus equation. Having a silver tongue seems to be an innate trait and all the games I partake with people (Jeopardy, Scatter-gories, Guess that) shows that I'm not the fastest guy in the room.

When people say intelligence is attractive, I sure hope it's more than verbal banter. Being good at math counts also.

[chillii]

Another one just letting all this internet stuff screw you up, just stop it and relax.You don't force some flirting thing with just anyone and everyone, you don't force it anytime or even have too. lf a lady turns up that you are actually genuinely interested in especially as something serious, it'll all take care of itself.                                          

As for intelligence, some of the supposedly most intelligent people l've come across are so as dumb as dog shyt in other ways or so unaware, it just baffles the mind. lntelligence or so called, comes in many shapes and forms and once again when you meet that someone your actually serious about it'll just be a whatever and take care of itself. The rest of them don't matter.

Edited January 8, 2022 by chillii

[Foxhall]

11 hours ago, DrasticMeasurements said:

If I was asked to name 5 famous people in history who were NOT politicians, it would take me a full minute. Yet, I can do data research and advanced calculus equation.

haha, Id probably be the opposite, name the people in 5 seconds but be unable to do the other,

Intelligence takes many forms, my memory people do say is quite sharp, but I am slow enough then in other areas,

In terms of attracting women, I think actually practical intelligence may be something they value more , such as being able to do odd jobs like plumbing or  fixing a roof tile, (again not so good at that either unfortunately!)

 

[Weezy1973]

20 hours ago, DrasticMeasurements said:

The reason I can't do flirting is because I'm not witty enough.

I don’t think being flirty and being witty are necessarily correlated. You probably don’t have much confidence so likely get nervous and can’t think quickly when you’re in a position to flirt with a woman you think is attractive. You just need to practice more to desensitize yourself.

[mark clemson]

There is a concept of "emotional intelligence" which is distinct from "intellect" and so you have, e.g. charismatic or "clever" socialite or rabble-rouser types who may or may not be great e.g. at written tests.

I had a boss like this who, while not stupid, was definitely not the brightest bulb at a large science-oriented company, but was VERY good at keeping track of people, their roles, and "how they could be useful", and she advanced to a senior leadership position primarily by leveraging these skills while leaving some of her rivals unimpressed (but beaten, heh).

The idea of a "nerd" who is gifted intellectually but has poor social skills is also common enough to be cliché.

Edited January 9, 2022 by mark clemson

[mark clemson]

There is also the idea of a modern "geek" who is smart but has maybe stronger social skills than some super-smart folks. For example this distinction is the core idea of the video below:

 

 

[S2B]

Yes, any person can be super smart - but not capable of a quick answer.

speed of intelligence shouldn’t matter - as long as you know - you know.

[DrasticMeasurements]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

I don’t think being flirty and being witty are necessarily correlated. You probably don’t have much confidence so likely get nervous and can’t think quickly when you’re in a position to flirt with a woman you think is attractive. You just need to practice more to desensitize yourself.

That can be true, and another bit of the story is true: inability to stand out. In a group of people, the wittier one is generally more popular and if you're not great looking, you don't feel much of a chance of making a good first impression if you aren't witty and it's practical to feel that way. It's a theory I have; confidence-performance upward/downward spiral: where if somebody is in an uncomfortable position, the lack of self-assurance will further degrade performance. Vice-versa if you're well-endowed.

In other words: Confidence matters as much as other things like your looks. Aiming for an attractive date when you're average looking is like trying to fight a Japanese Zero with an older biplane. There were rare, lucky aces in WWII who were very brazen like that, but overall, it's a healthy realistic combination of confidence and competence. So you're partly correct. It's easy to get tied up in working out/fat loss to improve my standing and forget that confidence is the first step, even if it's not the final step.

[basil67]

23 minutes ago, DrasticMeasurements said:

In other words: Confidence matters as much as other things like your looks. Aiming for an attractive date when you're average looking is like trying to fight a Japanese Zero with an older biplane. 

Dating leagues are well established.  Those who don't have great looks may not get a super attractive date - this isn't news..  But let's face it, most of us are degrees of average so the odds are that we will end up with someone who is also average.   It doesn't mean that you can't look for someone who's personality is where it's at.

[chillii]

2 hours ago, DrasticMeasurements said:

That can be true, and another bit of the story is true: inability to stand out. In a group of people, the wittier one is generally more popular and if you're not great looking, you don't feel much of a chance of making a good first impression if you aren't witty and it's practical to feel that way. It's a theory I have; confidence-performance upward/downward spiral: where if somebody is in an uncomfortable position, the lack of self-assurance will further degrade performance.

 

Sure with some of it , if your just talking dates. But who cares about just dates, well apparently with many round here that's about as deep as they go, probably the problem. It really beats me why so many struggling people think and worry about the masses. l never had any problem getting that special someone but l couldn't care less about the masses, matter of fact l'd rather be my very different self any day of the wk. Bc you spot that very special someone, really special , and she spots you , none of anything else matters. You are who you are and so is she. and as l say all the time, the rest don't matter, and either does mr or ms social butterfly . Matter of fact , give me the girl over on her own and not fitting in bc l'd just about guarantee she will be a deep deep soul with 10x the hidden gems than miss social butterfly where what you see right there is all she has. And women say the same thing about that quiet guy.

This is all pretty normal stuff , l really don't know why all the singles round here twist themselves up into so many knots and chasing all these dead ends when being you actually your best chance of anything real. And that couldn't last if you aren't you anyway.

But eh, if you wanna be some fake MR playboy sure, knock yourself out with all of it.

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[Trail Blazer]

On 12/26/2021 at 11:22 AM, poppyfields said:

I don't think eirher good character or personality create attraction; I think it has more to do with the mutual energy between two individuals, along with mental, physical and sexual chemistry.  

These things cannot really be defined, they simply 'exist' between two people, they are intangible.

That said, to maintain that attraction and develop a good mutually-rewarding "healthy" relationship, good character comes into play as well as compatible personalities. 

What constitutes a compatible and 'good' personality is so subjective, some like outgoing and gregarious, some like more quiet and reserved, etc there is no "one size fits all," it's different for everyone.

So I DO agree with you about that!

 

100 percent agreed.  The bolded is what draws you to someone, good chatacter and personality will determine if you stay with them.  Really, we're talking about the differences between attraction and compatiblity.

Where many people go wrong is when they think that they should be compatible with people they're attracted to.  Unfortunately, this doesn't happen very often.  For those lucky enough to find both in the same person, for they are truly blessed. 😇

 

[chillii]

Yeah of course and that stuffs the most basic and natural very first of the building blocks but so many don't even seem to be attune to or aware of these things yet, without them you have nothing. lt also seems like many must be driving way way out of their lane too but don't seem to grasp that either.

Edited January 9, 2022 by chillii

[Trail Blazer]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:59 AM, DrasticMeasurements said:

Most of us have heard "it's your personality that turns women/men off". This is told to guys but I've seen slightly more women being told the same. The context of a good personality is predominantly seen as following:

-Overly extroverted/gregarious

-Witty sense of humor

-Is very playful, and can tolerate a partner playing "hard to get"

-The life of the party in a social setting

I don't find these things attractive, and I tend to distance myself from friends/acquaintances who are like that. I'm personally an ISTJ and don't see logic in having a sense of humor. Yes, I can laugh at other jokes, but I'm far more analytic and can use logic to calm situations. Think of John King from CNN making election predictions "90% of votes are in from this county." Instead of being someone shouting at the candidate who is ahead, I'd be saying "relax, the votes are from Philadelphia. The other guy can catch up".

 

Having said this, CHARACTER is what truly matters. Kindness, honesty and listening to someone. On those traits, relationships will stand. Without them, they fail. Now people will say looks don't matter because it's about what is on the inside that matters. If you mean inside as in having a flashy personality, then I'd disagree because good looks or physical fitness can make up for a charming personality when getting to know somebody. You can be a good looking person who is not a jerk or lacks character. It depends on the person. I've recently started realizing that I really like women who are in STEM fields/majors because they can relate to my pattern of thinking. I'd give the same advice to women who feel like asking "why do men like a chase" the answer is the decent ones DON'T. As I mentioned earlier, I don't hang out with guys who subscribe to this "chase" mentality as I'm more traditional. At first, I felt a bit jealous that someone I knew from church was striking up conversations in a loud pup (Pitch 25 in Houston) until the next hour he talked about "simping" and "nice guy syndrome" and then I figured out that I don't have to conform to Red Pill nonsense just to attract someone that doesn't share my conservative values. We barely talk anymore.

So that's my theory. If real nice guys (not fake manipulators) could work on their physical features and lose weight, they'd be in a much better situation without having to alter their personality (according to Red Pill logic) just to attract the women that aren't good marriage material. On top of that, I doubt that playing "hard to get" was a common pastime in days when Americans got married much younger. You didn't have time to play games when people married at 22, after a couple of relationships that supposedly followed the same pattern.

Tl:dr Character is essential for a good relationship and having a charismatic personality isn't the only thing that attracts everyone, especially a values-based person.

The reality is that people are so varied in what they find appealing in others that you could pretty much be anyone and someone will find you attractive.

In a broad sense, yes, your personality can make or break you.  But really, what are you to do?  You can't change who you are, so you can only try to focus on being the best version of yourself.

Intelligence can be measured in different ways.  A buddy of mine is academically average.  Sure, he's probably fine at grasping basic math concepts, and can use arithmetic to a satisfactory level. 

However, where my buddy's strengths lie are in his ability to sell snow to an eskimo.  He's very quick-witted, charismatic and emotionally intelligent.  He can read a room like few can, and generally doesn't put a foot wrong interpersonally.

I've also known people who were academically brilliant, but put them on the spot about anything outside of their field of expertise and they'll be reduced to a stuttering mess, turning to water when they can't "think on the spot."

My advice to you is stick to what you do best and focus on being the best you can be.  There's no doubt that being as well-rounded in society as possible will more likely draw people to you than not; however, being authentic and not trying to be something you're not is key.

As for your buddy subscribing to Red Pill ideology; good for you for walking away and not getting drawn into it.  It can be tempting for many guys, but at the end of the day its a toxic rabbit hole to go down which rarely helps guys develop cachet with women.

Just finally, as has been mentioned previously, attraction is a seperate concept to that which describes characterisitcs which determine good long-term compatibility.  Compatibility helps you retain someone, but it rarely allows you to attract someone alone.

[Trail Blazer]

32 minutes ago, chillii said:

Yeah of course and that stuffs the most basic and natural very first of the building blocks but so many don't even seem to be attune to or aware of these things yet, without them you have nothing. lt also seems like many must be driving way way out of their lane too but don't seem to grasp that either.

As you get older and gain more life experience, you start to notice the things younger people do which you yourself needed time to figure out yourself.  I thought I knew "chicks" when I was 19, but at double the age, I now know that I really had no idea.