Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Not everyone's MM is a cake eater. That has become evident to me over the past week of reading this whole site. None of the stories I've read here (in so many of the forums, from infidelity to religion) show a single, objective, certain view of how the OW/MM scenario could play out, or is. There is NO definitive perspective on this. That is for sure. What I've seen is (no matter what forum we're participating in) that we're all trying to exist in a world of emotion and necessity. We're all (however we came here) trying to do our best. We're all surviving or sinking, or holding on. What I've seen here is that while we're either grasping for help or trying to give advice, we're all only seeing things from our own perspectives and experience. Sometimes that makes us angry, or arrogant, sniping, selfish, or all-knowing; sometimes it makes us blinkered, or set in our ideas. All we can offer is Perspective. None of those perspectives is 'true'... it's just perspective... a way of looking at things. The extent to which that changes the pictures we all come here with is up to us. We're all living our own lives. No one can tell us what to do. We can only take what we find here and try to apply it. We're all looking for 'the answer', but all we will ever find is 'a suggestion'. God bless you all in your searches. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Sounds like you haven't liked any of the advice you have gotten.. A board like LS is good because it provides all the different perspectives.. It's up to you to make the final determination to what advice applies to you. I'm sorry that you haven't gotten any advice that tells you that having an affair with a MM is a good thing.. I think the reason you haven't is because there are no real winners in a OW/MM scenario.. Only losers... That is why there is no advice to the contrary Link to post Share on other sites
OldEurope Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Art, there are success stories in OW/MM situations. Sometimes these relations simply turn out to be the right people who have found each other and their subsequent marriage does work out. You might not find them all here on LS because this is largely a site catering to the negative situations. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Your a romantic... Certainly there are stories out there where the OW gets the MM.. But those are not success stories..Quite the opposite.. Those are failures. You cannot base a success on all the pain and hurt that has been caused to all of the innocents. This is the reason it is a failure Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 so, Art... an OW/MM situation that turns out a success is, to you, a failure? Well that should be taken into consideration by any OW who listens to your advice? eh? I guess, by your reaction to my post on the 'Betrayed Child' thread.. that you would always see any situation in which a MM with children got divorced was a BAD and wrong situation for the children. Are you not just extrapolating from your own life and applying that to every situation? Don't you think that that's somewhat questionable? Questionable? Or is it that your situation, your feelings (because later your father went on to be a serial cheater) are right? Can't you admit (just possibly) that you might be seeing all these situations through very BADLY tinted spectacles? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Sounds like you haven't liked any of the advice you have gotten.. I'm sorry that you haven't gotten any advice that tells you that having an affair with a MM is a good thing.. And just to answer this specific comment. Yes, if you followed the forums you comment on, you would know that I am in NC with MM. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 1. Not everyone's MM is a cake eater. 2. There is NO definitive perspective on this. 1. True. Some MM are truly unhappy in their marriages, and leave them to make a happier life with someone else. Others are truly unhappy and don't leave their marriages. Not all MM who don't leave are cakemen. A true cakeman, one who is not only not leaving, but never intended to because he is happy in his marriage (and cheats not because he is unhappy, but because his needs are compartmentalized) - is pretty rare, actually. Most MM are just regular old guys who are unhappy in some way or other, and when considering the risk/benefit and the loss will stay with what they perceive to see as the "least amount lost" - which in most cases, is to stay with the W. They may not be happy about it, but they stay nonetheless because it is easier. Cakemen stay because they want to and choose to - not based on anything other than the outright desire to have both a happy marriage and a happy affair. When it comes right down to it though, and the MM (regardless of whether he is a cakeman or not) leaves the OW and stays in his marriage, does it really matter what type of MM he is? He is staying married. Does knowing why really make it any easier? 2. You are right - there is no definitive perspective, but when the law of averages have the MM leaving the OW high and dry most of the time its easy to see how people might think there is a definitive perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
Quest2 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 We're all living our own lives. No one can tell us what to do. We can only take what we find here and try to apply it. We're all looking for 'the answer', but all we will ever find is 'a suggestion'. this is true, so why are you so upset? not mean any harm, just curious Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Well, I'm not upset, to be honest. Why do you assume I'm upset? Link to post Share on other sites
Quest2 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 It just seems that way to me, I might be wrong, so never mind Not all MM who don't leave are cake eater? they may not like it, but they are still enjoying both, and if your an OW how could he not be the only MM who are not cake eaters, are the ones we are not posting about in this particular forum Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Not all MM who don't leave are cake eater? they may not like it, but they are still enjoying both, and if your an OW how could he not be the only MM who are not cake eaters, are the ones we are not posting about in this particular forum How can you not like something you're enjoying? Not much sense there. I am not an OW. Not sure about the rest of your sentence. Link to post Share on other sites
Quest2 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Quote: Originally Posted by Quest2 Not all MM who don't leave are cake eater? they may not like it, but they are still enjoying both, and if your an OW how could he not be the only MM who are not cake eaters, are the ones we are not posting about in this particular forum How can you not like something you're enjoying? Not much sense there. because of the statement not all MM who don't leave are cake eaters? I guess i took it as a MM with both a W and OW, if I took it wrong my bad the second sentence was towards the LB reply Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 I would like to hear some concrete examples about this. I think your last response was somewhat (for me at least) confused. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Quote: Not all MM who don't leave are cake eater? they may not like it, but they are still enjoying both, and if your an OW how could he not be the only MM who are not cake eaters, are the ones we are not posting about in this particular forum How can you not like something you're enjoying? Not much sense there. because of the statement not all MM who don't leave are cake eaters? I guess i took it as a MM with both a W and OW, if I took it wrong my bad the second sentence was towards the LB reply I'll just copy and paste this from another thread where I answered something similar: Cakeman = happy and content with marriage - infidelity stems from having a separate set of needs for W and OW. He is happy with both, and doesn't intend to do without either. Cakeman has separate compartments, each of which he can happily fill. At d-day the cakeman/woman makes a "choice" and lays low until he is ready to fill those compartments again. Cakeman/women don't see it as a choice between OW/OM and H/W. Its two separate things for them. Cakeman/woman sees nothing to 'fix' after d-day, just the need to shift things around to make the peace until the chaos dies down. There is some guilt at knowing the W and/or OW are hurt, but not to the extent that it causes the CM/CW to feel a need to change themselves. The separate needs don't come from being unhappy with one or the other. They are just there. Cakeman/woman will always have two containers, and therefore always have need for an outside relationship. Regardless of who CM/CW ends up with, they will cheat again in order to fill the newly vacant container. Unhappy MM - unhappy and discontent, infidelity stems from feeling that something is 'missing' in his set of needs and he plugs OW into those needs as a band-aid. UMM has only one compartment, and if he feels W is not filling that compartment up he will pour in OW over that and try to fill up any gaps. He becomes confused as the love he has for W gets mixed up and is forced to accomodate for the love he is building for OW. Not separate - he tries to put them both in the same container and fails miserably because he can no longer separate the love he feels for them both. One of them has to be sacrificed for the other. He doesn't want, and nor will he allow himself both, and he literally can't make the choice until he is forced to - guilt eats him alive. After d-day, the UMM will make a choice and identify 'fixes' and will make attempts to fix whatever it is that caused those gaps. Once those gaps are identified and fixed, the MM can move on and not have any outside needs. He can fill his container from within one relationship. If his container stays filled regardless of whether he ends up with W or OW, then he will not cheat. He will have no reason to want to. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 So once a man is married, LB, he is fecked? Do you really believe that a man, once he has married, belongs to one or another of those two definitons? Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 So once a man is married, LB, he is fecked? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Fecked in what way? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Well I edited my post before you replied. Not sure that my reply gives you any more. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Do you really believe that a man, once he has married, belongs to one or another of those two definitons? If he is having an affair - yes. He is either a cakeman who feels a need to fill up his "OW" container or he's a regular old MM who is with an OW in an attempt to fill some void he feels that is in his marriage. Do you know of any other categories? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 If he is having an affair - yes. He is either a cakeman who feels a need to fill up his "OW" container or he's a regular old MM who is with an OW in an attempt to fill some void he feels that is in his marriage. Do you know of any other categories? Well I don't know. I don't think this response of yours really answers much, to be honest. What are these 'voids'? Or 'containers'? Are your responses here much more than emotional? Link to post Share on other sites
LauraBancroft Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Your a romantic... Certainly there are stories out there where the OW gets the MM.. But those are not success stories..Quite the opposite.. Those are failures. You cannot base a success on all the pain and hurt that has been caused to all of the innocents. This is the reason it is a failure I agree that not every MM is a cake eater. Some are truly unhappy but that doesn't make them victims, I agree that they shouldn't be cheating and no one should cheat but there are circumstances that happen and well you know what they say "**** happens" so deal with it. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I don't think this response of yours really answers much, to be honest. What are these 'voids'? Or 'containers'? I've answered the same thing so many times and in so many ways, that I don't really go into the same depth about it anymore. Its pretty cut and dried really. When a person cheats, its for one of two reasons: the cheating is an inherent part of their character (in which they compartmentalize their emotions regardless of external influences), or they are cheating because they are compensating for some perceived lack of external fulfillment or happiness. If you are curious about the 'voids', 'containers' or heck - I've even used a puzzle as a metaphor for compartmentalization - you can cross-search my username with any of those keywords and come up with a plenty. Are your responses here much more than emotional? No. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sami_D Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 or they are cheating because they are compensating for some perceived lack of external fulfillment or happiness. Perceived or real? And how can YOU, personally, know, in all honesty? Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 1. Perceived or real? 2. And how can YOU, personally, know, in all honesty? 1. Who's to say it isn't both? 2. Why, that's easy. I'm omniscient and omnipresent. Heh... I'm not entirely sure where you are leading this so forgive me if I have some fun with this. It is Friday, after all. Link to post Share on other sites
brashgal Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Sometimes it's a little of both - my exh was missing something from our marriage so he strayed and actually was a cakeman in that he still enjoyed some things with me (including an active sex life) and a good mother for his kids and a great provider (I made a lot more money than he did). Plus he had OWs on the side. Flip to the day I decided I had finally had enough and so had he so he moved out. He continued seeing OW and they live together today (after she divorced her H). Three happy families? Hardly. My elder son doesn't respect him, her eldest doesn't respect her - I have no idea how her ex feels. It was a lot of crap to go through for their "happiness" and I'm not sure how happy they are - they appear to be but it could be smoke and mirrors. It would have been a lot easier for him to tell me "I don't want to live with you any more" and go sow his oats (she wasn't the first OW). You're right, everyone's story is different but darn - aren't there a lot of similarities and a lot of sadness created in the wake. Tra la... Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 It's not a matter of gray areas Laura.. It is a matter of what one considers right or wrong .. I consider affairs wrong ..Therefore there isn't room for a reason that the affair is okay. Link to post Share on other sites
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