not everyone's (Post in OW, and that's where it is meant to be)

[nosybear819]

Wow Sami you got yourself all wound up huh? Seems like you got some built-up aggression and you're taking it out on all the wrong people. Try some yoga or...i don't know...maybe deep breathing techniques. Just a thought.

[RecordProducer]

All we can offer is Perspective. None of those perspectives is 'true'We're all looking for 'the answer', but all we will ever find is 'a suggestion'.

You are right. The definite answer will be given to you with time. With all humility I can offer you in giving you my perspective is that if you sit and wait or continue to do what you're doing at the moment, you will be provided with the truth sooner or later. Your MM will either leave his wife or continue to live with her. It depends on you how much you're willing to wait.

 

The other thing we're trying to give here is support (not always of what you're doing), advice on how to make things change in your favor, and consolation. You get to hear other people's unhappy endings and see what might happen to you eventually and you can choose which course of action you will take in order to get out as a winner.

[Sami_D]

...if you sit and wait or continue to do what you're doing at the moment, you will be provided with the truth sooner or later. Your MM will either leave his wife or continue to live with her. It depends on you how much you're willing to wait.

 

Thanks RP. Well I knew NC was going to be hard, but I didn't know it was going to be quite this hard. It would have been far easier had we had some kind of falling out, but we're doing it because (as you say), it is a way out of this MM/OW situation that we've got ourselves into.

 

I'd appreciate feedback from people on the most recent development. I fell off the NC waggon this morning and texted him . He texted back that he loves me, he misses me, he doesn't want things to end between us, and he thinks we should stick to the NC.

 

Any comments welcome.

[RecordProducer]

he doesn't want things to end between us, and he thinks we should stick to the NC.

I would say "...,BUT he thinks you should stick to NC." So now you have no choice. If he doesn't think he wants to communicate with you, contacting him would be intrusive on your part. When somebody pushes you away, all you can do is leave him alone.

 

By the way, I agree with the others who said that Art_critic always gives wise and non-biased advice. He strongly advises all OW against continuing the affairs and IMO, it's the smartest advice you will ever get. He cuts the BS and spills the reality in your face, but he is never rude so I don't get it why anyone would feel attacked by him. He is one of the LS' best advisors.

[Sami_D]

I would say "...,BUT he thinks you should stick to NC." So now you have no choice. If he doesn't think he wants to communicate with you, contacting him would be intrusive on your part. When somebody pushes you away, all you can do is leave him alone.

 

Yes, having 'no choice' in the NC is certainly helpful. I have spent the last 10 days worrying whether we did the right thing, whether he was wishing that I hadn't even suggested it, whether me just waiting for him while he spends more time with his daughter was kinder or less selfish.

 

I'm really glad he replied in the way he did. Because I now know that his heart is in doing this. I can do it if he can do it. I have to, for him.

[RecordProducer]

Certainly there are stories out there where the OW gets the MM.. But those are not success storiesYou cannot base a success on all the pain and hurt that has been caused to all of the innocents.

I would add, you cannot base success stories on lies. Imagine that you're married to a person who:

 

1.Comes to you one day and says: "Dear XY, I realized that I haven't been content with our marriage and want to divorce you and find happiness with someone else."

 

vs.

 

2. Divorces you and you find out that they have been cheating on you and lying to you for an extended period of time.

 

Who would you have more respect for?

 

Would you find excuses for your own spouse like you're finding them for your MM?

 

How would you feel if your MM did to you what he did to his ex-wife? You probably think that you're different, but some day some woman will be younger and prettier than you too.

 

I can't believe that MM who sleep with their wives and share everything with them on a daily basis are poor little creatures trapped in terrible marriages. There is an exit of any relationship and they are choosing the line of least resistance. The thought of a man who is cheating on his wife and sleeps tight at night makes me sick to my stomach.

 

I have spent the last 10 days worrying whether we did the right thing, whether he was wishing that I hadn't even suggested it,

You just suggested it, but he chose it! So it's not your fault.

[Sami_D]

In both your scenarios, is the MM supposed already to have found someone else? Or is 1. a scenario in which a MM hasn't found anyone but leaves a M anyway..?

 

"You probably think that you're different, but some day some woman will be younger and prettier than you too."

 

Is this a general comment to the board or to me in particular? I'll answer anyway I'm older than his W already. I'm not sure that how I look has anything much to do with it. We spent the first year of knowing each other never having met IRL.

 

As far as I'm concerned, He's the one making the 'excuses' (reasons). Or he has been. What I'm 'guilty' of is believing him when he says he's found it hard to leave his M. Personally, I don't like the idea of a man who will just up and walk away from everything just because he fell for someone else. Of course someone else will call that spineless. It's all a matter of POV.

[RecordProducer]

In both your scenarios, is the MM supposed already to have found someone else? Or is 1. a scenario in which a MM hasn't found anyone but leaves a M anyway..?

No, of course not! In the first scenario, he is NOT a cheater in any way; he terminates the marriage because he is unhappy with the wife.

Is this a general comment to the board or to me in particular? I'll answer anyway I'm older than his W already. I'm not sure that how I look has anything much to do with it. We spent the first year of knowing each other never having met IRL.

The comment was general, not referring to you specifically, Sami. It doesn't matter which features you pick (I just mentioned the most common ones), there will always be some woman who will be more understanding, more fun, better looking, smarter or whatever. If he is severely unhappy with the marriage he should end it. But I think these people are just bored with their lives and want some fun (this doesn't exclude love - loving is the best fun).

 

Just imagine that you're his wife. You think she is a bitch and he is perfect? He is cheating on his wife and he doesn't seem to have a problem with it. He only has a problem with leaving her and marrying you. How can you feel love for a liar? Doesn't the thought of him going home and making love to his wife make you sick? He has a regular family life. You are just one of his hobbies that he is very passionate about. But in a few years that passion will fade away. Do you really enjoy being somebody's transitional love toy? When he exhausts all the excitement he can get from you, he will get bored of you just like he is bored of his wife now. But you will probably never have the chance to live the boring daily life with him so he might want to keep you as additional fun for many years. Would you like to play that role of bringing some light in his not-so-exciting life and help him survive the grey days of his marriage?

 

It's probably very hard to find a faithful man anyway... but the place where you are least likely to find one is another woman's bed.

[Sami_D]

RP your post here is full of assumptions and inaccuracies which bear little resemblance either to the R I was involved in, or my own views (I think she's 'a bitch'?? what?).

 

If you wanted to debate things I've actually said, or opinions I hold, rather than things you assume that I think, then that would be a different matter.

 

What surprises me is that you actually contributed to my original thread on this R, so you could have based your comments on facts, rather than put out what sounds more like a general rant against affairs than anything specific to what I've posted on these boards.

[RecordProducer]

RP your post here is full of assumptions and inaccuracies which bear little resemblance either to the R I was involved in, or my own views (I think she's 'a bitch'?? what?).

And again, Sami, what I said didn't apply to your case necessarily. This thread is not really about your case, it's a general one, right? So I post my general opinion about OW/MM affairs.

 

But what applies to your case is the last sentence - that you should look for someone single and likely to be faithful. For your own sake. IMHO, you won't find happiness with a MM.

 

Your MM has twisted the whole thing in his favor; now HE is the one who wants to stick to NC and you long for him. I have a feeling that he will call you some day and say he loves you and wants to see you. After the depressing NC days, weeks or months, you will forget about the divorce idea and be happy to just be with him. I just feel that he is starting to play with you.

 

But even if that's not true, in any case, he chose not to see you so you need to move on. I am glad this happened sooner rather than later. If things end at this point you're not going to be totally crushed as you would be had he strung you along for years. If this is true love betwen you two, he can divorce his wife and ask for joint custody. Just keep the NC. Even Old Europe - the OW who became the ex-MM's wife - did NC for 6 months or so before he left his wife.

[Sheba]

RP your post here is full of assumptions and inaccuracies which bear little resemblance either to the R I was involved in, or my own views (I think she's 'a bitch'?? what?).

 

If you wanted to debate things I've actually said, or opinions I hold, rather than things you assume that I think, then that would be a different matter.

 

What surprises me is that you actually contributed to my original thread on this R, so you could have based your comments on facts, rather than put out what sounds more like a general rant against affairs than anything specific to what I've posted on these boards.

 

Holy Cow! I thought RP was quite genuine in her efforts to explain her point of view. I wouldn't call it a rant, certainly, though I suspect RP is quite capable of writing an excellent rant should the situation call for a rant.

 

Sami D, based on your reactions to others on this thread, I feel you are engaging in some very energetic rationalizing. Rationalizing will make you feel good in the very short term but won't help you address your dilemma. Sadly, I forget the dilemma - I am far too distracted by the hostile responses to seemingly neutral posts.

[Sheba]

Not everyone's MM is a cake eater. That has become evident to me over the past week of reading this whole site. None of the stories I've read here (in so many of the forums, from infidelity to religion) show a single, objective, certain view of how the OW/MM scenario could play out, or is. There is NO definitive perspective on this. That is for sure. What I've seen is (no matter what forum we're participating in) that we're all trying to exist in a world of emotion and necessity. We're all (however we came here) trying to do our best. We're all surviving or sinking, or holding on.

 

What I've seen here is that while we're either grasping for help or trying to give advice, we're all only seeing things from our own perspectives and experience. Sometimes that makes us angry, or arrogant, sniping, selfish, or all-knowing; sometimes it makes us blinkered, or set in our ideas. All we can offer is Perspective. None of those perspectives is 'true'... it's just perspective... a way of looking at things. The extent to which that changes the pictures we all come here with is up to us.

 

We're all living our own lives. No one can tell us what to do. We can only take what we find here and try to apply it. We're all looking for 'the answer', but all we will ever find is 'a suggestion'.

 

God bless you all in your searches.

 

Having read the above, again, it would appear to me that Sami was merely stating her opinion, and not asking for advice. Unfortunately for her perhaps, others have opinions too and are wont to state them. Isn't that the beauty of all forums - the ready access to the opinions of others?

 

Sami, there is bound to be as many ways for the scenario to play out as there are married men screwing around on their wives. Each relationship is unique to some degree. I think there are clear trends and correlations, however, and those "truisms" are what are discussed here. What else can anyone do? Many people find this information very helpful.

[Sami_D]

Sheba, I think opinions are great. Otherwise why would I even be here? What I was saying was... that's what they are - opinions, not facts.

[lust4life]

I can't figure out what the thread topic was really suppose to be.

 

 

Do you think there is a catergory you want married men that commit adultery to fall into?

 

Or are you searching for a WHY did the guy you got involved with cheats?

 

 

My perspective has been bashed, picked apart many times but hey, I think that I will just put a little more of my perspective out there.

 

Why do men cheat? From reading about adutlery, gathering a sense of most sides of adultery, I came up with a much shallower opinion of why men cheat.

There appears to almost always be some sexual boundary in the marriage that the married man has decided he deserves to have and goes looking for it. I don't remember which board I was reading but was primarily an other woman board. One ow wrote that MM had asked her if she had any friends that might wnat to do a threesome, and then the thread went on from there to all the other sexual requests that MM had had of the other women that they were involved with. From that OW thread, I read the prespective of the OW saying she wasn't comfortable with it but was afraid to loose him if she didn't do it. And there were many others with some of the same feelings. Ex: MM said his wife won't swallow. MM said his wife doesn't really like other positions, MM said he' like to watch me have sex with someone else, how can he love me, MM said he wants to try anal, MM wants to tie me up.

 

I believe,it doesn't mean you have to, that MM are often after some sexual goal and if that goal isn't met they move on looking for it. If the adultery ends without discovery from the wife there is probably the same 'lacking' in the MM eyes in the adultery relationship as it is in the marriage, so he moves on.

 

From the betrayed wife view, I have also read this. He mentioned wanting _____ but I didn't think it was that important to him or that he was serious.

 

From the cheating spouse, I have also read a gamot of sexual 'reasons' and most are listed above.

[Sami_D]

My main motivation in posting the thread was that I was tired of hearing about 'cake-eaters'.

 

I don't want, or see any value in, a definitive list of categories into which any group of people will fit.

[Sami_D]

 

Your MM has twisted the whole thing in his favor; now HE is the one who wants to stick to NC and you long for him. I have a feeling that he will call you some day and say he loves you and wants to see you. After the depressing NC days, weeks or months, you will forget about the divorce idea and be happy to just be with him. I just feel that he is starting to play with you.

 

What do you think would be his motivation in maintaining NC when I said I was finding it hard? When I wondered what the point was, and feared that we were doing the wrong thing in trying for the divorce thing... that perhaps I could be OK with things as they were. He didn't JUMP at the chance. So... he's thinking what..? Playing hard to get? lol.

 

But even if that's not true, in any case, he chose not to see you so you need to move on. I am glad this happened sooner rather than later. If things end at this point you're not going to be totally crushed as you would be had he strung you along for years. If this is true love betwen you two, he can divorce his wife and ask for joint custody. Just keep the NC. Even Old Europe - the OW who became the ex-MM's wife - did NC for 6 months or so before he left his wife.

 

Read my earlier post. I have already said that I'm glad his response was what it was. It means (to me) that he is determined to do the right thing.

 

The whole point of NC was that we didn't continue with the OW/MM situation. Neither of us wanted to be involved in a strung out situation. That's evident, I think, to anyone reading our original thread.

 

Yes, this is true love. But often, that's not enough. I will always know that we loved each other, whether he leaves his wife or not. It's never been a question/contest of that sort. We've both been trying to do what's best, and possible, in this situation.

[Sami_D]

Sami D, based on your reactions to others on this thread, I feel you are engaging in some very energetic rationalizing. Rationalizing will make you feel good in the very short term but won't help you address your dilemma. Sadly, I forget the dilemma - I am far too distracted by the hostile responses to seemingly neutral posts.

 

Since you don't know what I'm supposedly rationalizing, then how can you make any sensible comment on this thread?

[Owl]

Sami D-

 

My main motivation in posting the thread was that I was tired of hearing about 'cake-eaters'.

 

I don't want, or see any value in, a definitive list of categories into which any group of people will fit.

 

 

I'm speaking from my 'perspective' as a BS. And as someone who isn't a counselor, but because of work I've done in my life I'm something of a student of human 'motivations'. I've learned that no one does something for 'no reason' at all...and I have learned to pay attention to those around me in an effort to understand their 'reasons'.

 

With that said, I find it interesting that you're making a huge effort to point out that people don't 'fall into categories'...like 'cake-eater', or whatever.

 

But, from my perpsective, people DO fall into a lot of those categories. I've spent a lot of time on this forum (LS in general), and on other forums as well, and it's sometimes amazing to note how everyone wants to believe that 'but my case is different'...when the more you delve into it, you find that in truth it's not.

 

Can you give me specific examples of cases where you feel that do NOT fit these general categories that you refer to? Yours, or others that you feel are so radically different that they don't fit what most of us deem as a category?

 

For example, you've noted that you've broken NC with your MM, and that he's told you that he loves you...but then turns around and says that you need to remain in NC. This is a VERY common strategy to continue 'cake-eating'...if you watch, the odds are that one of the two of you will again violate NC in the near future (within the next month), and this will allow the A to continue, while he's STILL continuing his relationship with his wife. By throwing in that "still in love with you", he's making it MORE difficult for you to maintain NC...not easier. It's an attempt at controlling your behavior by creating a specific emotional response in you with that statement.

 

What is your issue with these 'categories'? They exist because it's very true...people DO fall within normal behavioral and emotional norms...if we didn't, we'd NEVER understand each other. The value of these 'categories' is that it allows us to understand and even anticipate someone's behavior based on generic behaviors observed by other people who have behaved in a similar fashion...and using these categories allows us to use that information to identify the best course of action in dealing with people who fit into these 'categories'.

 

Not attacking you here friend...I just am making the observation that there is a reason why these 'categories' exist. Even a likely reason why you don't like them...because perhaps you feel that by falling into a 'category' yourself, it makes your own personal situation less unique...and therefore not as easy to say that 'but my situation is different' in an attempt to explain your behavior?

 

Again, don't take it as an attack...it's not. You've stated your opinion on 'categories'...now I've stated mine. I'm interested in your reasoning behind your opinion.

[Sami_D]

So you and RP think he just wants to continue the Affair, and I should just get on and contact him again and get on with it, and forget my good intentions?

[Owl]

So you and RP think he just wants to continue the Affair, and I should just get on and contact him again and get on with it, and forget my good intentions?

 

By no means, my friend. I'm personally against affairs...I was always against them, even BEFORE my wife began an EA.

 

What I'm telling you is that since you KNOW that this is what is likely to happen, you're now armed to change the game and do it differently.

 

I'm suggesting that you either tell him to get stuffed (or not talk to him at all), change your phone number, email, etc... and make it hard or impossible for him to initiate contact with you, and then batten up your own hatches to help yourself remain in NC with him. If you're doing this with good intentions, then you can understand the value of doing so for him and for his family.

 

From my perspective, if you hold to NC you're taking this into your own hands...you're upholding your own self worth.

 

And on top of that...I'm of the opinion that this frees you up to find the right person for YOU. One who honors you (and themselves) enough to not get involved with you while they're already involved with someone else. Perhaps it could be MM, a ways down the road after he's ended his marriage. Or perhaps its someone out there you haven't met yet.

 

So, what's your side of the categories issue here?

[Sami_D]

We were advised to go NC at this time in order to see if he could leave his W (see the original thread - MM says he's leaving his wife)

 

As far as I'm concerned, his determination to maintain NC is because he wants to do the right thing.

 

Sorry, I just don't buy into this 'MM is a tosser' mentality.

[Sami_D]

Bchange your phone number, email, etc... and make it hard or impossible for him to initiate contact with you, and then batten up your own hatches to help yourself remain in NC with him.

 

I would bet all the money and property I own, and far more besides, that this man will NOT contact me unless he has left his wife.

 

I know some of you don't believe that, but I have total faith in him.

[Owl]

And you could well be right, Sami. I agree...not EVERYONE fits into a mold...just most people.

 

I'm curious tho'...what reasons do you think that he won't violate NC? Do you think that it's because he's going to work on his marriage? Or just that he's too stubborn and prideful to break down himself? Or what?

[Sami_D]

No, he's not stubborn or prideful (that's me you're describing ).

 

He won't break NC because I told him that's what I want. There is no way he would be disrespectful of what I want. I know him.

 

I don't think he's working on his marriage. We already split up last year for several months because he wanted to give his marriage another try for the sake of his children. However, I do think that he's seeing if he can manage to live in that environment, without me... that's the point of the NC.

[Sheba]

Sami,

 

I think you are in love with your MM and don't want to think of him as a "cake-eater" . Your original point was that not all MM fell into this category, and in response to other posters you have tried to distinguish your MM from the cake-eater. For example, you pointed out that he did not take advantage of the knowledge that you were having a difficulty maintaining "no contact".

 

So, I feel quite certain that you are trying to generate reasons why your MM is/was quite unlike the stereo-typical MM referred to in many posts on this forum, and therefore why your relationship with him was different than the disparaged cake-eater/cake relationship. I call that rationalizing - you are looking for self-satisfying reasons things are/were more idealized in your relationship so that you can avoid the pain of feeling you were tricked or mistaken.

 

I think you may not have been tricked or mistaken, but still may be cake. Your MM is trying to work things out to keep his family together. He may be the one who was "tricked" or mistaken into believing, temporarily, that he could feel good about having an affair with you, or that he wanted to end his marriage. In any case, he now wants to work things out with his wife, he has children who need him and you will probably feel better sooner if you are able to convince yourself the relationship is over and move on with your life.

 

I think debates about the relative merits of one person's affair with a married man over another person's are counter-productive to your need to get past this painful point in your life.

 

Oh, and this: I think I am able to make sensible comments for two reasons. First, I was once a MW involved in a relationship with a MM. We each divorced our respective spouses and live together now. Second, I am a lawyer with a family law practice.

Good luck.