Am I wrong for staying?

[Sienna-lee]

Where do I start with this whole mess? It might be a long message, hope I can write it all out coherently. A bit of backstory: 

I had been single for a long time before getting with my partner, and I told him about my past relationship traumas etc. I have been used and abused, physically, mentally and emotionally. He seemed to be understanding, and supported me fine. We didn't have the best start to our relationship, given that he was flirting with me, giving me all the signs he was interested yet the moment I pursued him, he ran away. We reconnected when he randomly sent me a message about 4 months later, saying he missed me etc. I did still have some feelings for him, we decided to meet up. The date went amazingly good, and we decided to give a relationship a go. We started out slow, and we have been together ever since. This was Aug 2019. We have been seeing each other for almost 2 and a half years now. I thought we were doing fantastic, everything we did was amazing, our relationship was amazing, wonderful etc. Everything you could want. We are so alike, we love the same things, do the same things, say the same things etc. You know what I mean. Perfect is the word I used. I told him so many times what I felt about him, how I felt about the relationship, told him he was perfect etc. I always made sure he was happy, and I thought he was. Sex was a big issue between us, being as he has issues. I wanted it, he kept saying no, or not initiating etc. He told me how he feels about his issues, and had a low sex drive and didn't really want sex. I understood, and didn't try to pressure him, but I did start to feel ignored and unwanted. But, everything we were made up for it. I was so happy. We did have some sex, but very little. And he didn't ask me once if I enjoyed it, nor did he ever ask me what I wanted. It was a case of get it over with and that was it for months on end. There was no other touching or any kind of contact. I was left feeling frustrated, but I understood how the issue was affecting him. Our relationship otherwise was going fantastic. I couldn't have wanted a better partner. Which leads me onto the massive problem we have.

One night back in late Nov last year, I had an anonymous message telling me he was cheating, and to look at his phone. This wasn't the first time I had such a message, there was one a few months in to our relationship, which he managed to convince me must be his bitter ex. I swallowed the story. I believed him. Well, this time I decided to look, and asked him if I could see his phone. We were outside a train station as I was leaving his place after staying the weekend. He was hesitant at first, but eventually gave it to me. Its password protected so I can't get on it without him. I told him I was checking something on his FB as mine was playing up, but I went through his text messages, and sure enough, in blocked contacts, there it was in all it's disgusting glory. Proof he was cheating on me. Messages and pics, the words he used were not him at all, I was shocked at what he said to this other man (the AP is a tranny, man who dresses up as a woman) This guy told my partner he was going to go blow someone else first to warm up for meeting my man, and my fella said that's ok as long as he is clean. I felt like my world had blown up into a billion pieces, my whole insides felt like they were falling out of my body. They drove to a layby where my fella got into the back of the car and they had sex, right there where my kids sit. To say I felt physically sick is an understatement. I had my phone out recording the messages, just so he couldn't deny it. I must have made a sound or something as my fella asked me what I was looking at, he said FB still...I just said no, and then he tried to wrestle the phone out my hands. I just looked at him and said it's true isn't it....you're sleeping with a tranny. He said excuse me...what? So I showed him what I had seen. He just went quiet, refused to answer me, didn't deny or try to say it's a joke or his friend used his phone etc. I knew then it was him. We had a bit of an argument, more me asking him for the truth, him refusing to answer. I eventually got out the car grabbed my bags and said was it worth it losing me for that. No reply. I slammed the door and walked away. I don't know how I managed to walk away as I wanted to collapse. How I kept the tears at bay I don't know. I think the anger kept me going. 

I got home and was feeling really bad, and I mean bad. I needed answers, I wanted to hear from him what was going on. He ignored my messages and my calls. He eventually replied to me, but didn't say much. He did talk on the phone at one point, and he confirmed he was meeting up for sex. I screamed out when he said it, the pain was unbearable. I almost went hospital to see if they could give me something to knock me out for a while. I tried to message him again, no replies, but asked me to a call a few days later. I vid called him, as I wanted to see his face when he told me the truth, as I can pretty much tell when he's lying. I wasn't prepared for what I saw though. He was an absolute mess. And I mean a massive mess. We talked through a few things, and I was totally shocked at how he was. He started sobbing like I've never ever seen before. This was absolutely heart breaking crying. It stabbed right at my heart. All the pain I was feeling kind of left me and I just wanted to grab him and hold him. He said I'm gonna miss you, and the way he said it, my god that struck me hard. He started holding his head in his hands and went quiet for a bit, then coldly said he wants to die. Something in the way he said it made me freeze, a massive chill shot through me. He meant it. We talked more, I was trying to get him out of the mind set he was in. He told me he has what he calls **black heads** where he goes into total self destruct mode. All he wants to do is destroy himself, and he finds the worst most disgusting ways to do it to himself. He's done it since he was a child, even almost going through with his plan to commit suicide. He told me of his past traumas, how he feels that no one can love him he's disgusting, ugly etc (his family were evil to him as a child) He doesn't want to live as all he does is hurt people. He said he never told me about his mental health as every time he told someone, they walked away. He didn't want to lose me. He told me it was only the once, nothing more had happened. I almost believed him. I ended up calling a suicide hotline here, he said he wouldn't call them, but said he would answer them if they called him back. I managed to get them to call, and he did respond. He spoke candidly with them. That was a relief and he said he wouldn't do anything stupid. 

Being as this is almost a novel, I shall cut most out and give a quick rundown of what happened afterwards. At first, he said it was just the once, so I quizzed him more on it, he admitted he knew this guy since 2017, had seen him for sex until we got together, but hadn't met up since, until that night. He swore that was it, he was in a dark place and this guy just happened to text asking him to meet up. I smelt a rat, so quizzed him over the next few weeks. He said he met the guy on a dating site, and got curious. That's all fine being as he was single at the time. But then it all came out that he had in fact been meeting up with this guy for sex through our entire relationship. He was cheating on me the whole time. He said they met about 8 times. He says it's because he feels disgusting about himself, he does disgusting things. He feels so sick of what he's done, he just wanted to be disgusted with himself, and seeing a man was his way of doing it. 

He also admitted to being on a dating site, POF, but again, as with seeing the guy, he lied about that too. I only got it out of him the last few days he was on at least 4 dating sites, and was paying for one adult site where he got access to dirty filthy webcams. He said it's only a handful of times he looked. 

I also found a list of local to him dogging sites stored on his PC, which he swears he never went to a meet. He got curious one night and looked, but never went. This was before we got together.

I believe it's what you guys call trickle truth, and I don't believe he has told me everything at all. I also think his excuse of his bad heads making him go see his boyfriend is a load of bull too. He went because he wanted to. I also think he was chatting with people on the dating sites, possibly meeting up but he is denying it completely. I can't prove he was, and I almost believe that's true. But not quite. 

But, I can see how bad he actually is. He has said he was wrong, he feels so bad, he is genuinely sorry. He sometimes has a meltdown and is sobbing so bad holding me saying he is so so so sorry. I know he actually means it. He truly IS sorry. He has seen how much he has hurt me. He didn't think I actually loved him. He says how can anyone love him, he's disgusting. He has spoken to his DR, who put him straight onto antidepressants, and referred him to a mental health crisis team. He has his 1st appointment on Thursday. I have stayed by his side, for now, as I can see he really wants to put it right. I am holding on to the fact that despite what's happened, I still love him. That's something I can't control. I think he may have an addiction to his guy, and dating sites. He was seeing him before we got together, and also on the dating sites too. I said that's all fine as it was before we got together, but as soon as we did, he should have stopped. He said he doesn't know why he didn't, but the guy thing is his was of hating himself. It's not about hurting me, or wanting to leave etc. I'm not 100% convinced this is the case, and sometimes it all comes to the surface for me and the pain hits me all over again. I get images in my head from the pics the guy sent, they are truly vile. To know my man had his hands on him, and the guy had his hands on my man....I feel sick. Also knowing the guy will sleep with anything that gives him the slightest attention, YUK. I did have an STD and HIV check, which thankfully came back clear. I was scared of being given HIV. I know our relationship is worth giving it a try, but the doubts I have that I don't know the full truth, and that he will do it again....He swears he's not ever going to do anything again. He feels a weight has been lifted from him now he can finally see how he was abusing himself. How I have made him want to be a better man. He is seeking help, he is apologising all the time, he is taking the right steps, but will it be enough. 

So wise Loveshackers, can you give me some advice or guidance on this? Am I wrong to want to stay? 

[Wiseman2]

37 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said:

He has said he was wrong, he feels so bad, he is genuinely sorry. He sometimes has a meltdown and is sobbing so bad holding me saying he is so so so sorry. I did have an STD and HIV check, which thankfully came back clear.

You already know it's time to leave. Don't buy into the crocodile tears it's part of his sadistic game to get you to feel sorry for him.

[Sienna-lee]

34 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You already know it's time to leave. Don't buy into the crocodile tears it's part of his sadistic game to get you to feel sorry for him.

That's the thing, it's not fake tears. It's genuine and he is shaking a lot too. I'm going to be here when he has his appointment, as I want to be sure he is saying what he needs to say and telling his therapist everything. Not leaving out huge chunks of info to make it seem better than it is. I've told him there's no point doing it if he's still holding on to lies. He agrees, and said it's time he got his head sorted. He has tried before but had no support, and he felt like no one cared. He said he feels better now he has his meds, his head isn't as bad telling him he's stupid go kill yourself etc. He still feels it's there, but not as bad. I do feel genuine remorse from him. That's what I'm holding on to.

[vla1120]

1 hour ago, Sienna-lee said:

He says it's because he feels disgusting about himself, he does disgusting things. He feels so sick of what he's done, he just wanted to be disgusted with himself, and seeing a man was his way of doing it. 

 

1 hour ago, Sienna-lee said:

I get images in my head from the pics the guy sent, they are truly vile. To know my man had his hands on him, and the guy had his hands on my man....I feel sick.

I think there are a number of issues that need to be addressed, here. While it is wrong that he cheated and lied to you (and that in itself is reason enough to walk away), it sounds like he needs to sort out his sexuality. There is no shame in someone being attracted to the same sex, but it looks like he has been made to feel shame for his sexual proclivities. Gently, the real lie here might be his relationship with you, which (in his mind and many others) is considered to be more acceptable. 

I hope he takes the time to seek the mental health help he needs to determine his true sexuality and cope with the shame he feels because of it. It is good of you to be supportive of him now. I hope you can give him the freedom to explore and address his self-loathing related to his sexuality, if you truly love him and want him to be happy. 

[Sienna-lee]

29 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

 

I think there are a number of issues that need to be addressed, here. While it is wrong that he cheated and lied to you (and that in itself is reason enough to walk away), it sounds like he needs to sort out his sexuality. There is no shame in someone being attracted to the same sex, but it looks like he has been made to feel shame for his sexual proclivities. Gently, the real lie here might be his relationship with you, which (in his mind and many others) is considered to be more acceptable. 

I hope he takes the time to seek the mental health help he needs to determine his true sexuality and cope with the shame he feels because of it. It is good of you to be supportive of him now. I hope you can give him the freedom to explore and address his self-loathing related to his sexuality, if you truly love him and want him to be happy. 

This is a conversation we have had, and I have asked him several times again, is he bi or even gay. He outright denies it, and says he started out curious, which I've told him is fair enough. He then said he felt totally disgusted with himself afterwards. Hence why he uses the guy for his self hatred. He feels he is disgusting, he should have disgusting things done to him. He really hates who he is and what he's become. I've told him over and over it's ok to be bi or gay, just don't waste my time trying to look normal. He says that's deffo NOT the case. I can understand to some degree, but most people turn to drink or drugs, which are both as destroying as this. I will add he says it's only been oral sex done to him, and hand jobs from him to the other guy. He refutes they had full sex.Not that it makes it any better. I'm not totally convinced they didn't have full sex. My partner has sent a no contact request, has deleted his profiles and secret email (he had that years before we got together) and is seriously making the effort to make it right. He told me he's glad I know, as it's given him the push to finally put a stop to it, his own self torture and to seek the help he wants.

[stillafool]

15 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said:

My partner has sent a no contact request, has deleted his profiles and secret email (he had that years before we got together) and is seriously making the effort to make it right. He told me he's glad I know, as it's given him the push to finally put a stop to it, his own self torture and to seek the help he wants.

I'm sure he has every intention of stopping but can he?  He's in denial about who and what he likes sexually.  He doesn't want to be gay.  I doubt if he is bi because he never wants sex with you.

[Wiseman2]

21 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said:

This is a conversation we have had, and I have asked him several times again, is he bi or even gay. He outright denies it

Many men who have sex with men do not identify as bi/gay from prisoners to men on the down-low, etc. Yes  he may have mood disorders/mental health issues.

But it's insulting to those who have these issues to imply that being on the down low, pansexual promiscuous behaviors, cheating, lying, scamming you, etc. are due to this.

Dating is not social work and meeting randoms for male-on-male sex has nothing to do with his mental health or bad childhood etc. He seems to be gaslighting you perhaps out of sheer sadism.

It's time to reflect why you are tolerating this and why you would want to be fooled over and over and over. Because all the sobbing and sorrys will not stop this hedonistic behavior (furthest thing from depression is hedonism).

[Sienna-lee]

11 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I'm sure he has every intention of stopping but can he?  He's in denial about who and what he likes sexually.  He doesn't want to be gay.  I doubt if he is bi because he never wants sex with you.

Ah he does want sex with me. I have asked him why did he not really want to before, he said he doesn't know. Maybe it was the guilt? I am 50/50 on this, I have a suspicion as you say, he is gay and doesn't want to admit it. I think that's something his therapist can work on. He has shown a lot more interest in me lately. 

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, Sienna-lee said:

He has shown a lot more interest in me lately.

Do you think it is genuine or is he trying to keep you?  

[Sienna-lee]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Many men who have sex with men do not identify as bi/gay from prisoners to men on the down-low, etc. Yes  he may have mood disorders/mental health issues.

But it's insulting to those who have these issues to imply that being on the down low, pansexual promiscuous behaviors, cheating, lying, scamming you, etc. are due to this.

Dating is not social work and meeting randoms for male-on-male sex has nothing to do with his mental health or bad childhood etc. He seems to be gaslighting you perhaps out of sheer sadism.

It's time to reflect why you are tolerating this and why you would want to be fooled over and over and over. Because all the sobbing and sorrys will not stop this hedonistic behavior (furthest thing from depression is hedonism).

This is what I have been thinking, how much can he blame on his MH issues. I have told him I don't buy into his cheating being blamed on his black heads. He says it's deffo that he wanted to degrade himself, and use it as a form of self destruct and self loathing. 

I have also said that it's no shame to be gay, no one cares these days. It's ok and fine if he is, and I will leave and let him pursue whoever he wants to, He says he doesn;t want it at all. He feels totally disgusted in himself. I really don't know what to think anymore

[Sienna-lee]

6 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Do you think it is genuine or is he trying to keep you?  

It's possible, but the intimacy is feeling very real. The way he looks at me and tells me he loves me, the way he says it. He says he loves me more now than he did before. He finally realises he has someone who loves him. 

[stillafool]

32 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said:

It's possible, but the intimacy is feeling very real. The way he looks at me and tells me he loves me, the way he says it. He says he loves me more now than he did before. He finally realises he has someone who loves him. 

That's great but what about his sexual performance?

[glows]

To answer your question in your OP, I don’t think you’re “wrong” for staying. I do think you seem very much taken in with a man who wasn’t making you happy at all to start, claiming that it’s perfect and wonderful except… that it wasn’t ever perfect or wonderful. You have a habit of painting roses and sunshine when things are not actually that way. 

Of course anything looks better than what he was before, shunning you or avoiding sex. As shocking as all this is and painful, you now seem less frustrated and placated because he’s begging for forgiveness, telling you he hates himself and saying he needs you and loves you. You finally have what you always wanted even if it means your heart is shattered and in a million pieces. Did it have to shatter? No.

And secondly, there is nothing more alarming to me than hearing someone hates his or herself. All sorts of alarm bells start ringing off in my mind. Do you not question hearing this while also hearing in the next breath that he loves you? He can’t love himself and he says he loves you? He may think he loves you. I think he just feels relief for himself. He has a long way to learning to love himself. 

Sadly you’re caught in the crosshairs once again, believing things are better than what they actually are. You mentioned you have kids. There is no way I’d ever put myself in this position if I had dependants with me or still raising kids. You’re a mother first and foremost so be there for them regardless of anything else going on. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by glows

[Sienna-lee]

25 minutes ago, stillafool said:

That's great but what about his sexual performance?

He seems fine, we have been making sure each other is satisfied. He says he's enjoying it. 

[Sienna-lee]

5 minutes ago, glows said:

To answer your question in your OP, I don’t think you’re “wrong” for staying. I do think you seem very much taken in with a man who wasn’t making you happy at all to start, claiming that it’s perfect and wonderful except… that it wasn’t ever perfect or wonderful. You have a habit of painting roses and sunshine when things are not actually that way. 

Of course anything looks better than what he was before, shunning you or avoiding sex. As shocking as all this is and painful, you now seem less frustrated and placated because he’s begging for forgiveness, telling you he hates himself and saying he needs you and loves you. You finally have what you always wanted even if it means your heart is shattered and in a million pieces. Did it have to shatter? No.

And secondly, there is nothing more alarming to me than hearing someone hates his or herself. All sorts of alarm bells start ringing off in my mind. Do you not question hearing this while also hearing in the next breath that he loves you? He can’t love himself and he says he loves you? He may think he loves you. I think he just feels relief for himself. He has a long way to learning to love himself. 

Sadly you’re caught in the crosshairs once again, believing things are better than what they actually are. You mentioned you have kids. There is no way I’d ever put myself in this position if I had dependants with me or still raising kids. You’re a mother first and foremost so make sure you’re able to be there for them regardless of anything else going on. 

 

 

 

 

I hear what you are saying. Its something I have thought about a lot. Is he only keeping me because he doesn't have anyone else etc. Our relationship has been amazing though, and he has said that it is deffo real. He has opened up to a couple of his close friends and said the same to them, how he has messed up and needs to work on his issues. I will raise this subject with him about how can he love me if he doesn't love himself. I shall also ask again about his sexuality, if he's confused etc. I will let you know his answer. It's late here in the UK so it will be tomorrow.

My kids are not young, my youngest is 17 so all adults now. No issues there. 

[ShyViolet]

To put it bluntly, yes it would be wrong to stay.  This guy is a mess.  "But I love him" is not enough.  You will never really be able to trust anything he says.  He's shown himself to be a liar.  You're literally putting your health at risk by being with him.  He could give you HIV.

[ExpatInItaly]

Not going to sugar-coat this one: it would be incredibly foolish to stay, yes. You are only going to get hurt again. 

This man cannot b<and should not be trusted at all. He's been lying to you the whole time, and you have never known the real him. Now you know the real reason he never wanted sex with you - he is in deep denial about who he really is (and so are you) and his sexual identity. You aren't what he's attracted to, through not fault of yours or his. It just is. That explains a lot about your relaitonship, which sounds far from the perfect relationship you badly want to believe you have. 

I'm sorry. I would be done before the sun goes down today. I would also book a full STI screening, including HIV. You have no idea what he's exposed you to, or who he's really been with (regardless of the other's gender or sexual identity) I would not for a moment trust him with my personal health. 

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, Sienna-lee said:

 he is gay and doesn't want to admit it. I think that's something his therapist can work on. 

Therapy will not make him loyal or committed to you or honest or "straight". His sexual orientation is not the issue.

It's the cheating, lying, backstabbing, risk-taking and general character flaws that are the most damaging to you.

It's unclear why you are coddling and mothering a cheater, liar and reckless promiscuous risk to your physical and mental health.

Talk to your doctor. Be frank about your BF being promiscuous and pansexual.

Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support. You may need insight into your reasons for doing this to yourself.

 

[Sienna-lee]

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

he is in deep denial about who he really is (and so are you) and his sexual identity. You aren't what he's attracted to, through not fault of yours or his. It just is. That explains a lot about your relaitonship, which sounds far from the perfect relationship you badly want to believe you have

I think he is in denial too. I did broach the subject gain last night, where he almost admitted he MIGHT be bi. He outright denied he is gay, but I am not believing that anymore. Although our relationship has been amazing. That is one thing I am clear on.

 

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I would also book a full STI screening, including HIV

I already have done, all clear. 

[Sienna-lee]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Therapy will not make him loyal or committed to you or honest or "straight". His sexual orientation is not the issue.

It's the cheating, lying, backstabbing, risk-taking and general character flaws that are the most damaging to you.

It's unclear why you are coddling and mothering a cheater, liar and reckless promiscuous risk to your physical and mental health.

Talk to your doctor. Be frank about your BF being promiscuous and pansexual.

Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support. You may need insight into your reasons for doing this to yourself.

 

True, therapy will only help him admit the truth (I hope) I am fine with it if he is gay, I will move on. It will hurt, but I did what I could to help the man I love. 

My DR wouldn't care what my BF is, I've had an STD check, all clear. Not sure where you are from but here in the UK we don't just get given therapy. We can find a therapist and pay for it ourselves, but I am not in a position to be able to afford it. The only help you get here is if you are self harming/suicidal or a danger to others. Otherwise you're on you're own. And even then, the waiting list can be over a year to be seen. 

[ExpatInItaly]

27 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said:

I think he is in denial too. I did broach the subject gain last night, where he almost admitted he MIGHT be bi. He outright denied he is gay, but I am not believing that anymore. Although our relationship has been amazing. That is one thing I am clear on.

I suppose our definition of "amazing" is very different. I would not personally be satisfied or amazed with a partner who doesn't have sex with me and is clearly averse to being physically intimate. To me, that isn't a boyfriend but rather a good friend or roommate. And even then, he fails because he's been lying to you and disrespecting you and your relationship the whole time. Good friends don't treat each other that way, in my books. 

How is that amazing? 

[Wiseman2]

14 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said:

 therapy will only help him admit the truth (I hope) I am fine with it if he is gay. 

What you know is the tip of the iceberg. He may be having sex with all sorts of people besides you so it's strange to say you're ok with his "being gay".

You're hurting yourself by turning a blind eye to the real issues of cheating lying and leading a double life behind your back.

Keep in mind that your entire relationship is a lie. He did not volunteer any of this info. Like most cheaters, he played the victim card when caught. 

If you want more pain and suffering, then stay otherwise cut your losses.

[ExpatInItaly]

14 hours ago, Sienna-lee said:

is seriously making the effort to make it right

How can he make his sexuality "right"?

He doesn't appear to have a natural sexual attraction to women (seeing as how he avoided sexual intimacy for you for so long) He clearly is sexually attracted to other men. That isn't something he can (or even should) correct or  make right - it's just who he is. Even if doesn't want to be, it's obvious that is the real him. Whatever he identifies himself as or whatever therapy he does or remorse he expresses to you won't change his. 

Sure, he might delete his dating apps or cut his lover off, but that doesn't mean he will no longer be sexually attracted to men. And that is what really renders this entire relationship unsustainable, even if you forgive him for all the cheating and lying.

[BaileyB]

17 hours ago, Sienna-lee said:

Am I wrong to want to stay? 

I would leave, without a doubt. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Sienna-lee said:

I've had an STD check, all clear.

Are you planning to do regular STD checks in the future. Because, the chances that he will continue to have sex with other men are high. If you have sex with him in the future, I would assume that you are exposing yourself to stds.