BaileyB Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 54 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: I suppose our definition of "amazing" is very different. I would not personally be satisfied or amazed with a partner who doesn't have sex with me and is clearly averse to being physically intimate. To me, that isn't a boyfriend but rather a good friend or roommate. And even then, he fails because he's been lying to you and disrespecting you and your relationship the whole time. Good friends don't treat each other that way, in my books. Well said. OP, are you hoping to get married and have children with this man in the future? How do you think that’s going to go - given the fact that he has no interest in sex and he has other relationships on the side? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sienna-lee Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: What you know is the tip of the iceberg. He may be having sex with all sorts of people besides you so it's strange to say you're ok with his "being gay". You're hurting yourself by turning a blind eye to the real issues of cheating lying and leading a double life behind your back. Keep in mind that your entire relationship is a lie. He did not volunteer any of this info. Like most cheaters, he played the victim card when caught. If you want more pain and suffering, then stay otherwise cut your losses. There's no evidence of him sleeping with anyone else. Although I cannot know that for sure. What I mean with I am ok with him being gay is, if that's what he is, so be it. I cannot say anything against him. I can only be hurt as he has used me etc. Being gay/bi is nothing to be ashamed of. Just don't hurt other people in the process. He just says he doesn't know why he carried on seeing this guy when he got with me. He says he wanted to degrade himself. I've spoken with him many times telling him that wanting to be with a man isn't an issue these days. Does he feel disgusted in himself for being that way and not feeling as if he can be for fear of what people will think of him? I've told him no one really cares anymore. I've asked him over and over why does he want to be with me, he says he loves me, can't imagine his life without me. Playing the victim card possibly, but his breakdown was god awful. I mean I've seen people crying and begging and pleading, but he was on another level. He told me he wants to die again today as he is such an awful person. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sienna-lee Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 hours ago, BaileyB said: Are you planning to do regular STD checks in the future. Because, the chances that he will continue to have sex with other men are high. If you have sex with him in the future, I would assume that you are exposing yourself to stds. I will have another one in a few months as some things won't be spotted this early. Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said: Being gay/bi is nothing to be ashamed of. Cheating and lying are the issues, not who he cheats with or lies to you about. You seem to be confusing being politically correct with being with a liar/cheater. It doesn't matter if he was into BDSM sex or with whom. He cheated the entire time, led a double life and lied to you on a regular basis. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sienna-lee Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said: How can he make his sexuality "right"? He doesn't appear to have a natural sexual attraction to women (seeing as how he avoided sexual intimacy for you for so long) He clearly is sexually attracted to other men. That isn't something he can (or even should) correct or make right - it's just who he is. Even if doesn't want to be, it's obvious that is the real him. Whatever he identifies himself as or whatever therapy he does or remorse he expresses to you won't change his. Sure, he might delete his dating apps or cut his lover off, but that doesn't mean he will no longer be sexually attracted to men. And that is what really renders this entire relationship unsustainable, even if you forgive him for all the cheating and lying. I wouldn't want him to make his sexuality right, as I say if he wants a man, he can have one. He is attracted to women, he's always had relationships with women, he's only turned to this guy about 4 years ago. He told me he was on a dating site and this guy was pretending to be a woman, and lured men into wanting to try it being as he will **be the woman** He parades around in god awful trashy trampy clothes, and my BF said he got curious. Fair enough. Once they had met though, he said he felt disgusted with himself, but he carried on going back for 4 years and I've told him that I don't buy his story of being disgusted....I said he likes it just won't admit it. I've told him he enjoyed watching, as the whole thing is dirty, trashy, filthy, thrilling etc. My BF said he has seen this guy about 8 times in the last 2 and a half years he's been with me. I did say once was once too many. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sienna-lee Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 hours ago, BaileyB said: Well said. OP, are you hoping to get married and have children with this man in the future? How do you think that’s going to go - given the fact that he has no interest in sex and he has other relationships on the side? No marriage in the works right now, and deffo no kids were are both too old for that. He does have interest in sex, we did sleep together just not as much as I would have liked. Every few months I would say. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said: Once they had met though, he said he felt disgusted with himself, but he carried on going back for 4 years and I've told him that I don't buy his story of being disgusted....I said he likes it just won't admit it. I've told him he enjoyed watching, as the whole thing is dirty, trashy, filthy, thrilling etc. My BF said he has seen this guy about 8 times in the last 2 and a half years he's been with me. I did say once was once too many. He probably did feel disgusted with himself because he knows he can't control his desire. I guarantee he had sex with that guy every time he saw him. That is what drew him back to him. Now he's pretending he likes sex with women when before he was just trying to get it over with as you said. He's using you as a beard. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sienna-lee Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Cheating and lying are the issues, not who he cheats with or lies to you about. You seem to be confusing being politically correct with being with a liar/cheater. It doesn't matter if he was into BDSM sex or with whom. He cheated the entire time, led a double life and lied to you on a regular basis. I'm not confusing anything. I am seeing him breaking down, finally tearing down the walls he built up since he was a child, explaining how his head is and has been since then. He wants to die, he sees himself as unlovable, why would anyone want to be with him etc. His parents were quite awful to him. Treating his brother like a god and him like trash. He's grown up thinking he's worthless. He just wants to destroy everything in his life as he feels he doesn't deserve anything, how he has lost past relationships friendships etc due to his destructive behaviours, and how he wants to stop. He has to stop, he said I'm finally making him want to change, be a better man. When he says he is sorry, it's truly heartfelt apologising. I can't transfer his emotional state in typing it out. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Sienna-lee said: Treating his brother like a god and him like trash. Do you know how many people experience this with their parents? Plenty but they don't use it as an excuse to have sex with men. He needs to stop blaming his family for the fact that he is Gay and just embrace it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sienna-lee Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, stillafool said: He probably did feel disgusted with himself because he knows he can't control his desire. I guarantee he had sex with that guy every time he saw him. That is what drew him back to him. Now he's pretending he likes sex with women when before he was just trying to get it over with as you said. He's using you as a beard. Yeah he said he only got a b***job each time. I have told him I don't believe that, but he is quite strong on the fact he never had full sex, nor did he want to. Again, I am not buying that. They weren't in a relationship, the guy in question puts himself all over the internet going for anything that will give him the slightest attention. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said: They weren't in a relationship, I believe that. It's very easy for Gay men to have lots of casual sex. I bet this guy isn't the only one he's been with. The fact that the guy he chose to have sex with is very promiscuous is telling because he obviously didin't even care about STDs. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sienna-lee Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, stillafool said: I believe that. It's very easy for Gay men to have lots of casual sex. I bet this guy isn't the only one he's been with. The fact that the guy he chose to have sex with is very promiscuous is telling because he obviously didin't even care about STDs. I had that chat with him too, how he exposed me to god knows what, never mind his own health. He didn't say much on that. No surprise though Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 47 minutes ago, Sienna-lee said: I had that chat with him too, how he exposed me to god knows what, never mind his own health. No surprise though He doesn't care. He lied the entire time you were together. If he is suicidal he needs a psychiatrist, not hookups with men. You've only wasted 2 years. Now that you know the truth about his cheating, lying, complete disregard for you, cut your losses. Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: You've only wasted 2 years. Now that you know the truth about his cheating, lying, complete disregard for you, cut your losses. I agree. There is no way I would entertain the idea of staying with him, even for one more day. The whole relationship is built on a massive lie. OP, I get that you are incredibly hurt and your world has essentially just imploded. It can be very hard to separate the heart from the rational mind in these situations, because we're not usually ready yet to see the truth when we've been dealt such a crushing blow. This is a man you've loved for 2 years, so it's not as though you can just switch off your feelings. But remember this: the man you thought you loved is not the man he actually is. You're just meeting the real him. He has a whole deeply personal life that you're not part of. Real love cannot exist when you don't truly know the object of your affection. You loved the version he presented for you. But it wasn't real. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 On 1/12/2022 at 12:15 PM, Sienna-lee said: What I mean with I am ok with him being gay is, if that's what he is, so be it. Of course it’s fine if he is gay, that doesn’t mean that you should chose a gay man to be your life partner. If having a healthy sex life with your husband, having children together, and having a partner who you can trust not to be sneaking around with other behind your back and lying to you about it is important to you - this is not the man you should chose. On 1/12/2022 at 12:15 PM, Sienna-lee said: Playing the victim card possibly, but his breakdown was god awful. I mean I've seen people crying and begging and pleading, but he was on another level. He told me he wants to die again today as he is such an awful person. Kindly, this is not your problem. It’s his problem to solve - only he can come to terms with his sexuality and only he is responsible for his emotional well being. It is very manipulative and it puts you in a terrible position when he tells you that he wants to die. If that’s the case, you encourage him to seek professional help - that’s your responsibility here. It doesn’t mean that you make yourself his emotional crutch and allow him to pull you down while he is drowning… You can love and support this man as a friend, not a romantic partner. And even then, you need to establish some boundaries because lying to you and disrespecting you in this way is something to be very leery of - in any relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
vla1120 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 On 1/12/2022 at 5:48 AM, Sienna-lee said: I think he is in denial too. I did broach the subject gain last night, where he almost admitted he MIGHT be bi. He outright denied he is gay, but I am not believing that anymore. Although our relationship has been amazing. That is one thing I am clear on. It sounds like he's trickle-truthing you, to admit that he MIGHT be bi. The self-loathing might be a way for him to justify his behavior to you without taking responsibility for his actions. I just don't know. What about his family? Are they very religious? Would they disown him if they thought he was bi/gay? This situation reminds me of my daughter's first boyfriend in middle school (and best friend for many years), Many people suspected he was/is gay. His family is very religious and probably would disown him, which is why I think he stays in the closet. His family is very anti-LGBTQ. I think it makes it easier for him to give the appearance of "normalcy" by having a girlfriend. He also experienced a lot of self-loathing, suicidal tendencies, etc., and is in therapy now. This is probably why your story (and your boyfriend's predicament) pulls a little at my heart strings. I don't know that my daughter's ex ever had any experiences in secret on the side like this, but it would not surprise me. This is what happens when someone denies their true sexuality because of the fear of judgment/retribution by family and friends. Then, the shame of being caught only emphasizes the self-loathing. I wish the two of you had easier access to therapy. Are there perhaps support groups in your area that are free? Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 47 minutes ago, vla1120 said: I think it makes it easier for him to give the appearance of "normalcy" by having a girlfriend. He also experienced a lot of self-loathing, suicidal tendencies, etc. This is exactly what I suspect is going on with your boyfriend, OP. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said: This is exactly what I suspect is going on with your boyfriend, OP. Me too, for what it’s worth. One day, when he comes to terms and accepts his sexuality, I fear that he won’t want to be in a relationship with you. Something to think seriously about if you chose to stay in this relationship. Some men marry and have children only to come through this personal struggle (what your partner is experiencing now) and decide the truth about their sexuality and their very being can no longer be denied. They leave their marriages and go in search of the relationship they are truly meant to have in their lives. I have a coworker who did this - it was very hard on him to acknowledge the truth about his sexuality and then to share this truth with friends and family. He had been married for 25 years and he had adult children. It was also very hard on his wife - many years later, she is still very angry and very hurt. Edited January 13, 2022 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
glows Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 On 1/12/2022 at 10:31 AM, Sienna-lee said: I'm not confusing anything. I am seeing him breaking down, finally tearing down the walls he built up since he was a child, explaining how his head is and has been since then. He wants to die, he sees himself as unlovable, why would anyone want to be with him etc. His parents were quite awful to him. Treating his brother like a god and him like trash. He's grown up thinking he's worthless. He just wants to destroy everything in his life as he feels he doesn't deserve anything, how he has lost past relationships friendships etc due to his destructive behaviours, and how he wants to stop. He has to stop, he said I'm finally making him want to change, be a better man. When he says he is sorry, it's truly heartfelt apologising. I can't transfer his emotional state in typing it out. The most glaring issue is the way he feels about himself. Having encountered a person with this much self-loathing and helplessness in my past, in my opinion, there was no end in sight to the torture and self-harming behaviours, abusive treatment towards others, lies and manipulation that a person can engineer when that kind of self-hatred and loathing is present. All that is for the therapist or a psychologist to unravel. I'd truly think twice about this and your reasons for staying. I think it comforts you to know that there's a man who wants to be with you but his issues are too deep-rooted and unresolved to work with as a partner. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, S2B said: His interest is out of guilt for the way he hugely deceived you! Yes, and it won’t last. 3 hours ago, S2B said: I think that's something his therapist can work on. I don’t think so. I think he has much bigger issues to address because - 2 hours ago, glows said: The most glaring issue is the way he feels about himself. This is a man who is not in an emotionally healthy place. He is not a healthy or safe partner for anyone, of any gender. He shouldn’t be in a relationship with anyone right now. Edited January 14, 2022 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 3 hours ago, BaileyB said: Yes, and it won’t last. Agreed. No matter how much therapy or whatever else he does, OP, and no matter how much he knows you love him...this relationship has virutally zero chance of working out in the end. Link to post Share on other sites
smackie9 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Hey you do you...if you want stay and enjoy whatever you get from him that's fine, you are an adult you make your own choices....when it gets to a point where you are no longer getting what you need, walk. Basically, leave when you are ready to. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sienna-lee Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Hiya guys, just an update to say we found couples counselling, which we both want (and need) to do. He is having his individual therapy for his issues, which is good. His DR wants to up his antidepressants, so that's another thing. Although he says he feels woozy on them, he will carry on taking them if it means he gets better. Next couples counselling is individual, and it's my turn first. He said as he is having his own (tomorrow morning) it should be me who gets the first individual appointment. My session is on saturday morning. I am hearing what you all have to say, sometimes times it can work out, and sometimes not. There is no time limit on these things, I've read some leave immediately, some weeks, months or even years later. He has given me permission to look through anything I want, check phone records etc. He is adamant he isnt going back to his ways, he told the counsellor he feels relief as it's now over. He did it to disgust himself as he has always felt that way, he wanted to prove he is disgusting. Now he knows there is hope out there. Someone wants him, someone actually loves him, and someone is listening to, and helping him, with his issues. He has done some self harming, which I am not happy about. He has told the counsellor that too, so we need to speak to his DR to see if he can get any extra help. I'ts hard being with someone who has such bad depression/low self esteem etc, he hid it so well. But he was dying inside. And I never saw it. Yes he's a mess, but he's my mess, and hopefully, we can sort this together. If not, at least we tried. Its not going to be the most popular of opinions, and im sure I will get hate for it. I will update further on if anyone will be interested in how it's going? Thanks for reading, and the advice given. Link to post Share on other sites
glows Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 There's no hate here. It's only sad to see someone with their life ahead of them choose to stay in a difficult situation but it is your decision to make. Others may not agree. You might also want to look at support groups local to your area, perhaps families of loved ones coping with depression and destructive behaviours. Ask for resources during your counselling session. His depression sounds very severe so you're in for a bumpy ride. I think you need more than an internet forum for support. Keep in mind most here are laypeople with no specific speciality in providing care or trained support. Of course you are free to post as much or as often as you like. Take care. Link to post Share on other sites
LynneVicious Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 2:00 PM, Wiseman2 said: You already know it's time to leave. Don't buy into the crocodile tears it's part of his sadistic game to get you to feel sorry for him. This is exactly it. He’s manipulating you into feeling sorry for him. He didn’t feel so bad the last few years while cheating on you, did he? He’s sorry he got caught. Moreover, he’s a serial cheat. There’s no fixing that. To stay means you degrade yourself, your own values and truths. You’re worth more. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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