So in marriage we only share happiness but not sorrows?

[CaraGrace]

My husband and I have been married for 2 years and dated for 9 years (in the meantime cohabited for 5 years) before that.

I'd say we've never have had any big fights - mainly because we're both the type of person who avoids conflicts and who're not very good at expressing ourselves. When he's upset he probably won't talk about it and forget about it very soon like many men do. And when I'm upset, sometimes I just remain completely silent, or sometimes when I do voice it out, he just doesn't really respond as if he's not listening. So we don't really fight because we don't talk about something deep enough to start a fight.

I knew that back then before we got married, when I was working as a PR at the showbiz, I whined a lot of my work because I was often treated very badly by some celebrities, their agents, and sometimes by the press/paparazzi. I was yelled at, or even swore at/humiliated at public by these people. But every time I talked about how upset/angry I got at work, he's like just half listening, not responding, or sometimes just completely zoned out. There were several times he asked me to stop talking. He said he's also stressed out at work and so all he wanted was to go home and relax. He only wanted to see me being a simple and happy woman who's never sad or being emotional. I understand that no one wants to hear someone whine and it's true that everyone feels stressful at work. But I think it's fair to say that there are several types of occupation that are more stressful than others - stressful not only because of workload but how much we're refrained from talking about or showing our feelings at work while oftentimes not getting basic respect from people... Jobs like customer services, like mine...

And I also worked very long hours and very often on weekends and holidays too, I never got the time to slow down or relax. So when he never really needed to work overtime and on holidays and got all the time to unwind and recharge (playing video games all the time after work), I never did. There were times when I worked for over 40 days straight (7 days a week, over 12 hours a day) for some of the biggest projects I took on those days... I'd say I actually handled stresses so much better than most people did already. There are people who would whine or get extremely upset just working overtime for one night. And take him as an example, he once quit the first company he worked in since he graduated, and got a position in another company (in the same field) for a change, but that new company was much more demanding and he needed to take on much more responsibilities, worked much longer hours, and dealt with much more difficult people, workplace politics etc... and he got so stressed out that he cried in bed one night. I knew what it's about without even asking and I just comforted him and said that if the new job was so stressful than it's ok that he quit it, even though he only started it for several months... Honestly I did think that he's weak and couldn't handle stresses properly, but if it made him so painful than there's no point, and I was not in the position to judge because I don't know his industry. He soon quit the job and went back to his previous company (and is still working there now). 

So I was very upset that in the other way round when I was sad at work, the only person I could talk to never wanted to listen, because he only wanted me to be a happy woman with no negative emotions, no troubles... So basically it's just like asking me to refrain from talking about and showing my true feelings just so everyone is happy and trouble-free - not only at work but also in front of him. I knew my own happiness is not anyone else's responsibility. So then I spent 5 or 6 years trying to change my career so that I could become a happier, emotionally healthier person. From switching to freelancing, to taking on other types of job that are not PR-related (which, at first, meant I faced a drastic drop in income by quitting something I've done for over 10 years)... I've tried very hard to make myself happier while also being able to build a career and make money on my own. Then in recent 2 years I finally quit PR altogether - and I'd say I have become happier and seldom whine about work. He doesn't have to hear me whine about work anymore. And I thought everything seemed fine this way.

But then since the covid situation started in 2020, my income has become very unstable because the types of job that I've been working on are affected by the on and off lockdowns situation. So while I was having several months of idle time, I tried it out and started a small wedding decor business. I've been handling all the problems on my own. I don't talk about it even when something's bothering me or worrying me. I'm completely on my own, I've dealt with difficult and disrespectful customers, but I've been trying to keep it all together... But then just a week ago, I encountered a very rude customer who tried to shift the responsibility and avoid the penalty charge after she had damaged the product she hired. When I insisted that the responsibility was on her, she hurled insults at me (there were over 10 whatsapp voice messages of insults) and threatened to bad-mouth me online. I was very upset and angry because on the day she collected the product, she was late for 2.5hrs but I was being considerate and forgiving enough to accept her excuse (which was clearly a lie) and waited for her without making her accountable (her order should have been treated as "forfeited" and she shouldn't have got the product nor her money back). So when she broke the product, she thought that I'd be nice/stupid enough to accept her excuses again so that the penalty charge could be waived. She was clearly taking advantage of my willingness to forgive, and probably also thought that I was gullible. I could not describe how much this hit me because I've been undergoing a huge struggle in how much to still trust people/how many chances to still give people etc.. after getting hurt and taken advantage of for far too many times in my life (I just ended a 20 years friendship after realising/accepting that I've been manipulated and taken advantage of for all these years, and my husband saw me struggled and broke down and still slowly recovering in the past two years)... I've been on the verge of turning into a bitter and heartless person just to protect myself from getting hurt again, struggling to choose to be kind and hopeful... This incident actually makes me feel like I want to give it all up... that I don't want to trust or help anyone ever again...

I was very sad but I didn't talk to him about it, knowing that he wouldn't like to listen. I posted about it on facebook though. And on that day when he got home from work, he actually could tell that I was sad/looked weird and asked me what happened. I said that I'd rather not talk about it and if he wanted to know, he could read my post on facebook. Then for the past few days, none of us talked about this. He never asks, but it's clear that I still haven't completely recovered from the sadness and anger because I couldn't sleep nor eat well these days. I just feel as if I'm under water. Then today, while I was tidying up some wedding decor, I said I was upset that the said product was damaged... and just at the moment I started to recall how I was verbally insulted by the customer, he immediately stopped me and said, "yea I know, it's ok, don't talk about it" and then went on to the couch to watch TV. I was just shut off like that. I wonder if he has ever been verbally insulted by anyone at work and knows how it feels. I wonder if he knows the core of the problem - that I'm not only upset because I was insulted (and I don't think it's a nice thing to do when you know your spouse is insulted by someone but then you don't even ask or say a thing), but because this makes me start to convince myself that I don't have to be a good and kind person who always chooses to trust and forgive anymore... I'm on the verge of breaking down and he just doesn't care...

Edited January 15, 2022 by CaraGrace

[mark clemson]

The truth is that when people are venting their frustrations they're often not particularly pleasant to be around. A lot of it depends on how it is presented or talked about. Your husband may feel he is avoiding "toxicity" and to a certain extent he's justified in that. However, life is never perfect and in a LTR there has to be some ability to deal with curve balls and bad situations.

You may feel you are missing a sympathetic ear that should be there for you. He may feel like he doesn't want to encourage venting that he experiences mildly negatively.

Every couple is a little bit different but I can say definitively that ALL LT relationships require SOME level of compromise to be healthy. I'm not sure what compromise will work for the two of you, but it sounds like the current "let it pass" approach to your frustrations is no longer working for you. Consider going to marriage counseling and seeing if a MC can referee the situation for both of you so that you can develop ways for him to listen and support you without it devolving into a situation he's no longer comfortable with.

[basil67]

I have to start by saying that I'm shocked that you see your husband moving out of a scenario which doesn't work for him as being "weak".  I see your husband's response as being proactive.   And your criticism of him not handling stress well is unfair when this whole thread is about how you're unable to handle your own stress without support.    And  I know that you supported him that once.   But I bet that he used to support you before the complaints became endless.   

Your PR job sounded horrible, so you did the right thing ending that and moving on.  But taking on a role which involves working with brides is just nuts if you want a relatively stress free work environment.   I'm on numerous FB sewing pages and many professional dressmakers joke that the reason they (and other wedding professionals) charge double as soon as they hear the word 'wedding' is because of the brides they have to deal with.  They joke that extra money they earn helps pay for the alcohol they need to cope

It's time to rethink your latest venture and start to prioritise your mental health.   You're not sinking because he's not listening to you complain, you're sinking because you're working with bridezillas.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by basil67

[Els]

I think there's a limit to which we can reasonably expect "sorrow sharing". If your mum died or you had a miscarriage, and you needed a shoulder to cry on for a few weeks? That's 100% reasonable, any decent partner should provide that, and I will absolutely judge someone who did not.

But if you're complaining about your job, day after day, week after week, perhaps month after month? Then it just gets far too much. If your job is really so upsetting to you that you are bringing your angst about it home on a daily basis for a long period of time, then IMO it's your own responsibility to figure out how you can lessen this strain on your relationship - perhaps by quitting your job, just like how your husband did. Also... you could have picked ANY business you wanted during those idle months... but you picked a wedding business?!? Really??? 😅

Look, some jobs are just not suitable for some personalities, period. I turn into an absolute monster if I get woken up in the middle of sleep, so I know that any job that requires being "on call" is completely off-limits for me. On the other hand, I'm a product owner and get customer complaints all the time, it doesn't bother me much. It sounds like dealing with customer complaints and customer stress is not compatible with your personality... so maybe consider that you're in the wrong line of work?

Relationships NEED "happy moments" to thrive. Sorry, but they do. The happy moments are what connect us, they are what we remember when we think of each other, they cement the bond that we have. If your life is really so unfortunate that 99% of your moments together are "sorrows" (i.e. you were diagnosed with cancer), then that's just really unlucky and you two have to make the best of the hand you were dealt. But your life ISN'T that unfortunate. People change careers and change jobs all the time! You are CHOOSING to destroy your marriage this way. You need to make different choices if you want it to survive, IMO.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Elswyth

[CaraGrace]

12 hours ago, Elswyth said:

But if you're complaining about your job, day after day, week after week, perhaps month after month?

I kind of expected this kind of feedback... I can only say it's not "day after day, week after week, month after month"... but that's how most people would assume. I mentioned that in the past when I worked on PR, I barely have holidays. There have been times that I didn't see him or talk to him for a whole month or two because I was non-stop working. So yes perhaps in the very little time that we're together, there may be half of the chance that I wasn't happy because I was stressed out at work, but half of the time I also just acted happy and silly and just have fun with him. It's kind of the same now, just that we basically see each other every day but I can say that 80% of time I'm the happy wife who just watches TV, movies, jokes around with him etc., so that he doesn't have to deal with anything that is negative, even though sometimes I just cry on my own. So if all he can take is the happy side of me, and when it's not fun to be around me when I have emotions that he just zones out... well, I should just be married to a counsellor maybe? Cos I can't ask anyone to listen to me except a paid therapist.

[CaraGrace]

On 1/16/2022 at 11:10 AM, basil67 said:

I have to start by saying that I'm shocked that you see your husband moving out of a scenario which doesn't work for him as being "weak".  I see your husband's response as being proactive.   And your criticism of him not handling stress well is unfair when this whole thread is about how you're unable to handle your own stress without support. 

I said that because he was only few months in that new job. But I also said that I knew I was in no position to judge. I just had that flash of feeling that he gave up too soon, considering that the reason he changed job was that he knew the original company that he worked in was among the "weakest" in the industry, and he wanted to try working at the more prestigious ones. So when he gave up only a few months into it (hadn't even passed the probation period), I had a feeling that he hadn't tried hard enough or hadn't given more time to see if things could work out, etc. But then I thought if he had reached the limit that he could handle then there's no point keep trying. There is no right or wrong in it. Feeling is feeling. If he felt that way, he felt that way. I also supported him and encouraged him to quit the job if it didn't work for him. And it was he himself who asked me first if I thought he was weak/gave up too soon, I can say that the first answer popped up in my head was "yes", but I said "no". And I said if it made him feel so bad, it's not worth it. I know I can still be seen as being "mean" and "critical" because I had that thought of seeing him being "weak". But at least I didn't turn a deaf ear to him when he needed someone to listen and comfort him.

 

[CaraGrace]

13 hours ago, Elswyth said:

Also... you could have picked ANY business you wanted during those idle months... but you picked a wedding business?!? Really??? 😅

I'm sorry that I picked the wrong job again then

[CaraGrace]

On 1/16/2022 at 11:10 AM, basil67 said:

And  I know that you supported him that once.   But I bet that he used to support you before the complaints became endless.

So I supported him "once" only? That's how you assume... But you think he has definitely supported me many times before I become an unbearable woman..

I'm never going to be right on this because being a person who complains is wrong in the first place. But what I say is he's never capable of holding difficult/unpleasant/in-depth conversation or discussion. I mean if I complained too much about work, would he be able to try to talk to me and figure out what's really upsetting me or the root of problem? Yea maybe it's me picking the wrong career, maybe it's me holding on too much on things that weren't worth it, maybe I was too blind keep trying and believing these would all pay off someday... But no, he chose to turn a deaf ear.

And let's not talk about my complaints about my work cos it's too trivial to everybody.. but there has always been things that I think are important and needed to be discussed with him but he never would face it, like whether to have kids or not. As I said we've been dating and living together for quite a lot of years before getting married, and he was always the one who wanted to get married and have kids. I never really wanted kids. Before we got married, there were many many times when he hinted that we would have kids, like when we bought a new apartment he always said we needed to set aside one room because there would be a 'third person' (our kid) living here... and every time he said things like that I'd say it's not going to happen. At some point I thought it's not ok if we still haven't reached a common ground on this, and I wanted him to know why I don't want kids. There have been a few times I wanted to really sit down and talk about it seriously, but every time he would just stop me and said he didn't want to talk about it right now, or that he thought it's a too serious topic to discuss and he's exhausted after work/he's having a headache, etc... It's he not willing or being able to hear and talk about things he doesn't want to hear and accept. I tried a few times but then I gave up. I just let it be. I know he's not the kind of man who sees having kids as the goal of marriage/being with someone, it's not like if I don't want kids then he would considering marrying someone else who would. So if we don't talk about it, and never agree or compromise on it, it would still be 'fine'. It would just be like he will keep bringing it up/hinting, and I will keep saying it's not going to happen, maybe until I reach my menopause then he'd accept it's not going to happen but never understands why. Yea but he will be fine as long as I keep being the happy woman, happy wife, who never complains and talk about sh*ts he doesn't want to hear...

Edited January 17, 2022 by CaraGrace

[Els]

Okay, so there's more blaming of your husband, and no addressing the question that two of us put to you: Can you consider changing jobs?

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, CaraGrace said:

 who never complains and talk about sh*ts he doesn't want to hear...

Actually that's a good policy. Don't take your work home with you.

If you are stressed out and crying etc, it would be best to see a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support.

Think of your home life as a sanctuary and escape from work not a place to complain about this much.

While spouses are supportive, going on and on about work complaints won't help your work issues or your home life.

How is he supposed to solve your work unhappiness if you don't do anything about your work or stress or anxiety about it?

[CaraGrace]

53 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

Okay, so there's more blaming of your husband, and no addressing the question that two of us put to you: Can you consider changing jobs?

I changed more than once, I can change again. Yes, I said I was wrong to have picked the wrong career again. The problems are all on me. I figured that many of you here don't bring your stress and anxiety at work to home. You are all very good at handling stress and emotions and are only happy in front of your spouse. Then how about avoiding discussion of important issues? 

You're going to say there's more blaming of my husband, but I'm saying I don't think he's capable of understanding my feelings/willing to listen. In the first few years we were dating and many of the times when I had dinner with his mum, she wasn't very nice to me. I used to buy things for her on some special occasions like birthdays, christmas, mother's day etc., and every time she would ask me why I bought those things/what were those things for/what's so special about them, and said that she didn't need/use them. Sometimes she took them without saying thank you/looked very unimpressed, sometimes she just gave them to her daughter just right in front of me, sometimes she asked me to take it home myself because she didn't want it... etc... I thought it was rude. And I wondered if she didn't like me and intentionally made me feel embarrassed. (Her daughter and son-in-law also bought her things and she never refused or looked unimpressed. And there were times when I didn't buy her things on special occasions, she would have things to say... like I didn't show any courtesy...) After these things have happened far too many times, I said to my husband (then boyfriend) that I thought her mum didn't like me, and was rude to say/act the way she did when I bought her things. He said I was being sensitive and said 'that's the way she is', asked me to not be bothered by that. He said I thought too much because he didn't like there's anything wrong. Then I just learned to suck it up and swallow my feelings whenever I thought his mum was being rude/mean. Then before we got married, our two families finally met up for dinner for the first time. After the dinner, he was so unsettled on our way home and said, 'I think my mum is being so rude and mean, don't you think so?', then I was like, 'it's not the first day she's being this way, you said it's just me being sensitive, then why does it bother you now?' He said that he thought the way his mum talked to my mum was rude and mean and was afraid that my family had a bad impression of her. And he also said his mum has been like this for all these years, citing examples of her saying mean things to others and said that she was a crazy woman... I comforted him and said perhaps she didn't realise it because 'it is the way she is', and I didn't think my mum was offended. He's then less bothered by it but it's since when he finally admitted that his mum was mean and that it wasn't just me being sensitive. I think it's a very good example that he cares only when it hits him. When something happens to me, he thinks it's me being sensitive and unreasonable, but actually he can be bothered by the same thing when it affects him in some way. 

Anyway, I think I'm just upset because I don't think what I give him is reciprocated, or that he cannot put himself into my shoes. But anyway, I should talk to a counsellor or therapist, because it's my problem and he doesn't need to listen to me.

[elaine567]

3 hours ago, CaraGrace said:

As I said we've been dating and living together for quite a lot of years before getting married, and he was always the one who wanted to get married and have kids. I never really wanted kids. Before we got married, there were many many times when he hinted that we would have kids, like when we bought a new apartment he always said we needed to set aside one room because there would be a 'third person' (our kid) living here... and every time he said things like that I'd say it's not going to happen.

This is the fundamental disconnect in your marriage.
He wants kids and you working all the hours and moaning about it is not something he wants to hear about.
He has zero interest in your "stresses" and work pressures as he is probably a bit sore and resentful.
All he hears is you saying it is never going to happen, so  he doesn't want to know why you don't want kids. Why is immaterial, he doesn't want to listen to your excuses...

He placates and pacifies himself with games and relaxing and not getting into arguments.
What he really feels is uncertain, is he "over it" or is he getting more and more bitter about never being a father, it is hard to say, but one thing is sure,  he is in no mood to be your emotional support system... 

All is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Your marriage needs a lot of work and it may not last. Having kids is very important to some, it is a huge life event, and it may actually be why his mother doesn't like you.
Getting married to a guy who wants kids and telling him it is never going to happen was not the best idea, it could be seen as an actually pretty cruel thing to do...

[Els]

5 hours ago, CaraGrace said:

I changed more than once, I can change again. Yes, I said I was wrong to have picked the wrong career again. The problems are all on me. I figured that many of you here don't bring your stress and anxiety at work to home. You are all very good at handling stress and emotions and are only happy in front of your spouse. Then how about avoiding discussion of important issues? 

You're going to say there's more blaming of my husband, but I'm saying I don't think he's capable of understanding my feelings/willing to listen. In the first few years we were dating and many of the times when I had dinner with his mum, she wasn't very nice to me. I used to buy things for her on some special occasions like birthdays, christmas, mother's day etc., and every time she would ask me why I bought those things/what were those things for/what's so special about them, and said that she didn't need/use them. Sometimes she took them without saying thank you/looked very unimpressed, sometimes she just gave them to her daughter just right in front of me, sometimes she asked me to take it home myself because she didn't want it... etc... I thought it was rude. And I wondered if she didn't like me and intentionally made me feel embarrassed. (Her daughter and son-in-law also bought her things and she never refused or looked unimpressed. And there were times when I didn't buy her things on special occasions, she would have things to say... like I didn't show any courtesy...) After these things have happened far too many times, I said to my husband (then boyfriend) that I thought her mum didn't like me, and was rude to say/act the way she did when I bought her things. He said I was being sensitive and said 'that's the way she is', asked me to not be bothered by that. He said I thought too much because he didn't like there's anything wrong. Then I just learned to suck it up and swallow my feelings whenever I thought his mum was being rude/mean. Then before we got married, our two families finally met up for dinner for the first time. After the dinner, he was so unsettled on our way home and said, 'I think my mum is being so rude and mean, don't you think so?', then I was like, 'it's not the first day she's being this way, you said it's just me being sensitive, then why does it bother you now?' He said that he thought the way his mum talked to my mum was rude and mean and was afraid that my family had a bad impression of her. And he also said his mum has been like this for all these years, citing examples of her saying mean things to others and said that she was a crazy woman... I comforted him and said perhaps she didn't realise it because 'it is the way she is', and I didn't think my mum was offended. He's then less bothered by it but it's since when he finally admitted that his mum was mean and that it wasn't just me being sensitive. I think it's a very good example that he cares only when it hits him. When something happens to me, he thinks it's me being sensitive and unreasonable, but actually he can be bothered by the same thing when it affects him in some way. 

Anyway, I think I'm just upset because I don't think what I give him is reciprocated, or that he cannot put himself into my shoes. But anyway, I should talk to a counsellor or therapist, because it's my problem and he doesn't need to listen to me.

Hun... I'm exhausted even reading all that. Honestly. And I'm not even listening to it every day...

Just to be clear... I'm not saying he's totally in the right here. FWIW, I'm actually with you on the kids thing. If you made it clear before getting married that you never wanted to have kids, and he went ahead and got married anyway knowing that, then that decision is on him, and he shouldn't be trying to pressure you to change. Having kids is a huge commitment to make and not something to do if you don't want to, especially for the sake of the kid involved. Considering the informed decision that he made, the onus is on him to either make peace with that or call it quits.

But just like how the onus is on him to make that choice for himself... the onus is on you to manage your own mental health and anger. There is so much unhappiness and anger that I see bubbling beneath your surface, I don't even know where to begin. Yes you absolutely need to talk to a counselor, NOT "because your husband won't listen to your complaints", but simply because being so unhappy and angry all the time can't possibly be healthy for you.

Of course most of us aren't perfect, we do vent sometimes, but not nearly to the extent that you do. I am perplexed that you think venting 20% of the time you are home (your own words, not mine) is "very little". Everyone has issues at their job, but assuming you see your husband 3 hours a day, 20% of 3 hours a day is 36 minutes of complaining. I don't know anyone who could listen to that every day and stay sane. I definitely couldn't. And if I found myself complaining that much every day about my job, my top priority would be switching jobs.

I do hope you manage to find happiness in your marriage.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Elswyth

[basil67]

@CaraGrace Just six months ago, you wrote about becoming aware that it was unfair to treat your husband and friends as a dumping ground for your problems.  What happened since then to have you forget that insight?

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/602249-im-worried-that-i-might-be-a-narcissist/#comments

[elaine567]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Just six months ago, you wrote about becoming aware that it was unfair to treat your husband and friends as a dumping ground for your problems. 

Yes but whether it is unfair or not is immaterial, as she feels she doesn't have the support system she  so desperately needs.
Her husband/friends are not stepping up to the mark for her.
Her whining/venting/complaining may be over the top but she feels she needs to lean on someone and her husband is nowhere to be found any more.
It is frustrating and annoying for her. 
He has zoned out.
Like so many posting here, she wants him to be the person she wants him to be and that is so often a complete non-starter.
We can only really control ourselves.
She said in her previous thread, therapy which IMO would be appropriate and more productive for her,  is unaffordable.

[Els]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

@CaraGrace Just six months ago, you wrote about becoming aware that it was unfair to treat your husband and friends as a dumping ground for your problems.  What happened since then to have you forget that insight?

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/602249-im-worried-that-i-might-be-a-narcissist/#comments

I read that other post and now I understand why the OP thinks that changing jobs might be futile... and I probably agree with her. It sounds like in the space of a few years, she has gone through THREE completely different jobs and all of them have resulted in so much "stress" that it is wreaking havoc on her mental health. Perhaps the issue then is not her job, but rather the inability to compartmentalize her job or to set boundaries. Indeed, in the last thread she seems to have attained a much better idea of where to go from here.

OP, I hope you actually give therapy a try. You said "seeing a therapist just to whine doesn't seem necessary and is unaffordable too... ", but that is NOT why people are suggesting therapy. A therapist is not a dumping ground any more than your husband is, they are there to offer cognitive behavioral strategies to help you manage your stress and emotions and racing thoughts. Online therapy might be more affordable, some even have free online tools and courses that you can start with. I'd strongly recommend ThisWayUp.