That they don't end up with their AP is TRUE!

[vla1120]

I just learned yesterday that 8 years ago, when I was fighting cancer - just before I decided to leave my husband of 32 years - he was having an affair with a woman from his reenactment hobby. One of the reasons I left him was because he had cheated on me 18 years before, when I was pregnant with our youngest. When I told him I was leaving, he immediately went out on a dating website and started a relationship with a woman (and has been with her these 8 years.) Finding out yesterday that he was already having an affair with a woman from his weekend hobby, I was a little surprised that he so easily kicked her to the curb to go online and find another woman. I guess it is true that when a man is cheating with a woman, once he becomes "free" from his marriage, he does not alway pursue or stay with his affair partner. OW should pay attention to that tidbit of information.

[stillafool]

3 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

I guess it is true that when a man is cheating with a woman, once he becomes "free" from his marriage, he does not alway pursue or stay with his affair partner. OW should pay attention to that tidbit of information.

I agree and we've seen this happen time after time.. The MM doesn't want to be reminded of how his actions caused the demise of his marriage so he gets rid of the evidence - the other woman.

[Jonttu]

16 hours ago, stillafool said:

I agree and we've seen this happen time after time.. The MM doesn't want to be reminded of how his actions caused the demise of his marriage so he gets rid of the evidence - the other woman.

It takes an MM/OW to have a complete lack of morals to continue the A after the D.

Sadly my dad and his OW belong to that group. Both left their spouses. In our case dad cut off the whole family, including his three children,  sold beforehand our family's joint assets and racked up an insane debt on our house,  he left just before mom got notified of an impending eviction (dad had taken as many mortgages as possible without mom's knowledge), sued his own children for CS and pretty much left us as poor as possible.

While dad and his OW (and OW's children) travelled around the world, we hitch hiked to school and got used to not having food everyday.

When dad's money was gone, OW took her children and left him high and dry.  Who does dad start to date behind mom's back? Mom's best friend and for a whole year. Mom found out about it when they moved in together.

The latest I heard was dad taking his youngest daughter's best friend on expensive trips. They became an item. No remorse, absolutely none.

It takes an especially cold and calculating MM to continue with his OW - who also has the same traits - after the D. No shame.

To explain dad's OW; she and a group of her co-workers went to see a fortune teller. The fortune teller refused to see OW. Did OW feel shame? Nope. A month later she tried to see the same fortune teller, this time disguising herself and going with another group. The fortune teller refused again to see OW.

If even a fortune teller can sense the evil in someone, then it has to be bad. When mom called a fortune teller in despair, the man told her immediately "leave your husband, he is evil", before mom had a chance to say anything. This was during the cruel pick me -dance.

Do we children feel bad for never visiting dad? Nope. He lost that precious little thing called RESPECT from his children.

That is a thing most MMs don't realize - before it is too late. Loss of Respect.

We don't hate dad, we are indifferent to him. He hurt mom and badly, we saw everything. Maybe dad is jealous of the love we feel for our step dad, but who cares? We don't!

To MMs: It is bad enough to lose your spouse's respect, but just wait until you get to experience how your children don't respect you at all. Just wait until you get to experience how it is impossible to bond with your children, after they have lost all respect for their dad. To children their dad/MM ceases to exist.

When thinking about how many are out there effectively destroying what they once had, wtf are you thinking? Children see mom being hurt by dad and children piece together all the questions hanging in the air. They rally around the one who got hurt, not around the one who has been out there to get what HE wants for HIMSELF only.

To OP: Some care, some don't. beware of the latter ones!

[ExpatInItaly]

I would say it’s generally, but not always; true that cheaters wind up with their APs. 

I know 2 couples who are products of an affair (so one in each pair left their marriage for their now-partner) They’ve each been together a long time now, and one couple longer than the previous marriage.

However, I also realize they’re the exception. Most others I know didn’t   end up together in the end. 

[Prudence V]

20 hours ago, stillafool said:

The MM doesn't want to be reminded of how his actions caused the demise of his marriage so he gets rid of the evidence - the other woman.

I imagine this depends on the MM’s motivation for the A - if he’s wanting to “augment” the M, rather than escape it, then this is probably true. If OTOH the A is a symptom of falling in love with someone while still inconveniently married, it’s more likely the APs will end up together. 

[Prudence V]

3 hours ago, Jonttu said:

To children their dad/MM ceases to exist.

I’m sorry things were so awful for you. It sounds as though your dad treated you really poorly. 
 

 

3 hours ago, Jonttu said:

They rally around the one who got hurt,

This is true, but it’s not always the BS. Children have a front row seat to watch the whole lifespan of their parents’ marriage. If the BS treats the WS poorly, they’ll side with the WS despite the A. 
 

If either partner - BS or WS - is not a very nice person, then future relationships are unlikely to work out. And that includes relationships with their children. 

[Blind-Sided]

If someone has the mentality that cheating is ok... why would they be satisfied with one person?

[FMW]

My guy's dad has been married for 36 years to the woman with whom he was having an affair while still married to his mom.    

But I think it's true that most affair partners don't last.  Then again, most dating relationships don't last.  The factors that often go into affairs happening make lasting relationships even more unlikely.

[Jonttu]

1 hour ago, Prudence V said:

I’m sorry things were so awful for you. It sounds as though your dad treated you really poorly. 
 

 

This is true, but it’s not always the BS. Children have a front row seat to watch the whole lifespan of their parents’ marriage. If the BS treats the WS poorly, they’ll side with the WS despite the A. 
 

If either partner - BS or WS - is not a very nice person, then future relationships are unlikely to work out. And that includes relationships with their children. 

Oh he treated us really poorly, but he flat-out made sure, that mom was left with absolutely nothing. He didn't want us kids, but he also made everything in his power to ensure mom can't afford to take care of us. Mom again made everything in her power to shield us from the ugliest things. She even went to court representing us, so that we didn't have to go through it. Of course dad lost his case; he was wealthy and had a huge salary. Yet he sued us so he doesn't have to pay any CS. The jugdes laughed him out of the court and he had to continue paying CS, also for the many months he refused to pay.

Long story short; his OW forbid dad from ever seeing us or talking to us. The tiny respect we still had for him was gone in a flash, when he cowardly called us from his job. He was now hiding things from his OW also.

As a serial cheater he continued to cheat on OW during his business trips. At some point he made the mistake of giving his OWs our address, thinking he would pick their letters and cards up from our home?!?!

Mom could have informed OW but she didn't. What she did was send the cards to dad's new address, where he lived with OW. OW could then read all the cards where several women thanked dad for the passionate sex and wished to see him again.  In our eyes mom took the high road, because she only wrote his real address on the cards and put them in the mailbox. 

We had lived under the impression that mom was bad and dad was good. She never corrected us. Later on we found out that mom had every right to get mad at dad when we grew up.

Several friends asked us many times why we don't hate dad? I guess with the respect gone there was nothing to hate... let alone love. Cordial and polite indifference.

I never forget the cold look in dad's eyes when he left us. Mom collapsed on the floor pleading and crying for him not to leave, dad turned his head when we kids tried to comfort mom, who was on the floor. With the coldest eyes you can imagine. He didn't say anything, he just left us kids to take care of our mom, who was having a nervous breakdown. He never even called to ask how she or we are doing.

Mom was so loving and kind to us, that we weren't traumatised after her nervous breakdown. She never told us all the ugly things so that we could have a relationship with dad.

Dad went as far as portray himself as poor to us. We were meeting dad after the D and he took us to a pizza place. We ordered the cheapest on the menu, because dad ordered a pizza with no dressing and sighed. He even made us feel guilty for eating at all. He must have hated us, because we never spoke bad about mom or told mom how much dad badmouthed her to us.

The only good thing that came out of dad's infidelity was, that we are as adults the most faithful persons one can hope for. We have strict boundaries, we never take advantage of people and.... we are all unmarried. We saw first-hand how a 22-yrs old marriage can be destroyed just like that.

It doesn't mean that we are afraid of loving and being in relationships, we demand more than a paper, a real committment, even telling guys when starting to date them "Always remember that you are free to leave whenever you want, no explanations needed." and also forbid them for ever proposing to us, telling them that we will let the partner know when it is safe for him to propose, so that he doesn't have to humiliate himself. Also dad didn't destroy our faith in God. 

Mom met the love of her life, our step father, who was immediately welcomed into our family and very much loved, because he never hurt mom. Mom was immensly happy for the rest of her life. Although she passed away two years ago, we rather spend all holidays with our step dad. Never with dad. Step dad is Number One, dad is number two. Just like we were number two to dad.

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Jonttu

[mark clemson]

The prevailing wisdom on internet chat boards is that it's a low %. Clearly some do as there are sufficient personal anecdotes to support that.

Reality is that, from the perspective of lasting a lifetime most relationships fail. This makes sense as it is apparently biologically ingrained in most people to be serial monogamists. (Monkeybranching via an affair is a form of "serial" IMO.)

There is also the question of defining success. Is a five year relationship a "failure"? Ten year? Depending on how one looks at this, some affairs may be "successful relationships" before the married AP ever leaves, and even if they never do.

My personal view is that a 10+ year relationship should be deemed a "success" even if it ends (even badly). That's of course only an opinion and 10 is an arbitrary (if nice and round) number. If one has a lower bar, than many relationships that weren't lifelong (affairs or no) can be seen as "successful relationships that ended" - something that is in fact perfectly normal.

Edited January 22, 2022 by mark clemson

[husbandcheating]

This is very interesting. Quite a few on this site has told me my husband will for sure be leaving me. 

[mark clemson]

^^ no one can say for certain. IIRC your husband and his OW are a bit more "entangled" than usual, for example with her putting money into saving accounts for your children. This sort of thing appears to be quite rare (although perhaps not among quite wealthy individuals?) Also the laws in your jurisdiction seem to make the financial hit of leaving less than it would be for many men.

Given the size of modern populations and the likely #s of people who cheat, even a small % such as 5% still likely equals 10's of millions of people worldwide, so your husband could certainly be among them.  Certainly there are no guarantees either way.

Edited January 23, 2022 by mark clemson

[vla1120]

5 hours ago, husbandcheating said:

This is very interesting. Quite a few on this site has told me my husband will for sure be leaving me. 

Because your circumstances are different. You are right, many do not leave. In fact, my husband begged me not to divorce him. Even after we divorced and I was remarried, he texted me one night that he still loved me and wished he could have me back. (Therefore, clearly cheating on his new girlfriend, at least emotionally.) 

Maybe my circumstance is a situation you would wish for yourself. We were married for 32 years and I am convinced he would not have left me. I even stayed 18 years after the last time I was aware he cheated. While I did a good job of pretending for that 18 years, the fact that he cheated with our neighbor, my best friend, was always in the back of my mind. Maybe you'll also get to the point that I did, @husbandcheating, where a breast cancer diagnosis had me wondering "Why am I staying with this lying cheater? When do I get to look out for my own happiness? When do I get to stop feeling like I am sacrificing my happiness to keep my family together?" I have grown quite a bit in the past 8 years. I will never again sacrifice my peace and happiness for someone else. I come first, now. 

[ExpatInItaly]

6 hours ago, husbandcheating said:

This is very interesting. Quite a few on this site has told me my husband will for sure be leaving me. 

That's because in your case, as outlined in your thread, it appears very likely that he eventually will. 

 

[vla1120]

16 hours ago, Jonttu said:

Mom met the love of her life, our step father, who was immediately welcomed into our family and very much loved, because he never hurt mom. Mom was immensly happy for the rest of her life. Although she passed away two years ago, we rather spend all holidays with our step dad. Never with dad. Step dad is Number One, dad is number two. Just like we were number two to dad.

I am sorry for your experiences with your dad. My daughters are now estranged from their father. Like your mother, I never speak ill of my husband to our daughters. He, in turn, would badmouth me every time he saw them. Now, my daughters have no desire to see him. My oldest reminded me the other day, the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. I am glad your mom found happiness and I am glad you have your stepfather. 

[Jonttu]

6 hours ago, vla1120 said:

I am sorry for your experiences with your dad. My daughters are now estranged from their father. Like your mother, I never speak ill of my husband to our daughters. He, in turn, would badmouth me every time he saw them. Now, my daughters have no desire to see him. My oldest reminded me the other day, the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. I am glad your mom found happiness and I am glad you have your stepfather. 

vla1120 I am also so sorry for your experiences, how could he do that to you???? No wonder your daughters are estranged from their father!!! Like you have taken the high road and never spoken ill about their father, he on the other hand has tried to poison them against you. Children know the difference.

My dad for example, he only left and came clean to mom when AP had given birth to their baby.  Yet mom took him back many times. We prayed for mom to kick him out for good, but she was not able to do that during their pick me -dance. It was bizarre to say the least, when dad came back we children shut him out of our family.  Every single time. Mom and dad had their thing, but we were indifferent to him.

Can you imagine, that he even blamed us children for his affair with AP? According to him the reason for his affair and the baby with AP was, that we children didn't jump in his arms when he came home from work (we were teenagers)?!?!

Lol, I so understand your daughters. None of us wanted to speak with dad when he called. There was nothing to talk about except the weather. Normal cordial and polite discussions, with him bashing mom and us ignoring the bashing, always negative. We never told mom how he bashed her, it was so mean-spirited.

The few times we saw dad we were out of money, so we asked him for 10 dollars on those occasions. We always paid back, always. Mom didn't tell us much about the court hearing, only asked about the money. Dad claimed in court that we borrowed huge amounts of money from him and never paid him back?!? That is how low he went. Fabricating lies about his own children.

She also told that we had told dad, that mom was on vacation trips abroad and she left us without any money. She went on one business trip, that is all. Dad tried to paint her as some 'reckless mother who rather party than takes care of her children'. When we asked how dad justified suing us to court to get rid of CS, mom told that dad explained to the judge how he has one baby and another baby on the way, hence he can't pay the court-ordered CS to us any longer. No wonder he was laughed out of the court by the judges, lol

We don't know all the gruesome details, mom shielded us from that. Mom was both dad and mom to us, strong and loving. Dad was always a weak coward in our eyes. After the court hearing I was seriously sick one day, along comes dad crying and explaining that he is not a villain - to his seriously ill daughter. I remember how tired I was, trying to tell dad many times that it is okay. Not once did he apologize though, he was only playing the victim. We have not brought up the court case to him - ever. We could do that if we hated him, but since we are indifferent we only try to keep relations as polite and cordial as possible. Neither has dad brought it up either.

Aaw our stepdad, he is something else. He took care of mom until the end. He told last Christmas how they 'danced' to the toilet. That is the most beautiful way to describe her last days, when mom couldn't walk they 'danced'.

Two years has passed and he is still the main figure for us, included in absolutely everything. He has no children of his own, which makes it even more easier. He made mom so happy, it was awesome to see them together, mom never said one bad word about him either. Seeing that our stepdad made mom happy was all we needed, he was immediately embraced by us. Mom no longer needed to be protected by her children, because stepdad protected her.

Adulterers never understand the profound and huge impact their actions have on other people, how much and how many they hurt when selfishly satisfying their own personal needs (wants). Like in your family, I can only imagine how deep the wounds are

Good thing though that your daughters are indifferent to their dad. It isn't forced, it comes naturally. In our case we never ever dream of dad, never. There is nothing to be 'resolved', nor is there nothing lurking in our subconcsiousness. I guess that when your daughters have witnessed your suffering, how their own dad has inflicted even more suffering upon suffering on their mom, there is no way he can ever win their respect, love or friendship.

He must be furious when seeing how you are showered with their respect, love and friendship. Self-reflection among adulterers is very rare, like in their dad's case. Somehow you just know inside of you, that there will be no personal growth, no self-reflection, naturally leading to indifference.

OP take care of you and your daughters, that is what matters. You deserve all the happiness possible

 

 

 

[ilikept]

On 1/22/2022 at 3:48 AM, vla1120 said:

 I was a little surprised that he so easily kicked her to the curb to go online and find another woman. I guess it is true that when a man is cheating with a woman, once he becomes "free" from his marriage, he does not alway pursue or stay with his affair partner. OW should pay attention to that tidbit of information.

I just addressed this on another thread by an OW who's MM is in the process of divorcing and she basically making housekeeping plans for when they ride off into the sunset together.  

In practical terms it's like this -   if a MM wants to get with other women,  he has very limited options and is limited to whatever woman(s) is willing to sneak around and hook up with him on the side.    [ ] 

But assuming he is reasonably attractive and successful,   he will have a lot more options and higher quality options on the open dating market.  

It's women that frequently will "trade up" and will monkey branch from one partner to a Bigger Better Deal when she can.  

Men on the other hand will try to add more to the mix and will add additional to the harem rather than trading one for another.   So when they divorce and get on the open dating market,  they are able to date in a higher quality bracket and have many more options and able to spin plates.  

Most won't ride off into the sunset with the OW.  

Edited January 24, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
group berating

[vla1120]

On 1/23/2022 at 10:11 AM, Jonttu said:

Aaw our stepdad, he is something else. He took care of mom until the end. He told last Christmas how they 'danced' to the toilet. That is the most beautiful way to describe her last days, when mom couldn't walk they 'danced'.

Aww. I am glad your mom found your stepdad! I am hoping to find someone as caring and kind as him....someday. Thank you for your kind words. You are strong and resilient!