I cheated on my wife is there a chance I can ever get her back. I love her.

[serial muse]

3 hours ago, Jonttu said:

Having been in his wife's shoes myself, the only thing I craved for was for him to show strenght and protect me, just by holding me tight and promising he would never again let anyone hurt me and definitely by him or his actions.

Safety is underrated. If the cheating man shows any weakness; longing for AP, not disclosing facts, trying to belittle his actions and invalidate my feelings .... that's that for me. I could never respect, love or trust him. I would never give a second thought to what he wants or what he is feeling, because then I would have to be the strong one and comfort him - at the expense of my suffering.

That is why I never told any bad things to my mom. She would collapse and all my energy would go to comfort her.

If OP has weakness and wants his wife to comfort him, then I understand if his wife wants a divorce and why she needs a shoulder to cry on.

OP either has the inner strenght or not. It is not a question of focusing on some 'attractiveness', it is about who you are.

Sure, of course. I've been in the BW's shoes myself. I was specifically responding to the suggestion that a lack of inner strength is a turnoff. Given that the OP has acknowledged that he's recognizing that one of his issues is related to aging and the desire to be attractive to a lot of people, I really don't think framing the discussion in terms of what might or might not be a turnoff for his wife is the way to go. The central issue here isn't whether or not he's attractive enough, whether in his own eyes or in hers. It's how he chose to deal with that insecurity. (He should, of course, work on that, but not out of a desire to increase his attractiveness, and more because it would make him a better person who is less likely to brush off the possibility of collateral damage if it soothes the ego.)

Similarly, there was a mention upthread somewhere about the "180 turn", which is a strategy usually aimed at betrayed spouses who are inclined to hysterically bond in the aftermath of an affair discovery. I don't think that's appropriate for this OP either, because it's specifically designed to try to make the person employing it more attractive to their spouse, and, well...see above.

Just saying that neither of these approaches are appropriate here. Trying to increase attraction just isn't the way to increase trust. Not the same thing at all. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by serial muse

[Jonttu]

9 minutes ago, serial muse said:

Sure, of course. I've been in the BW's shoes myself. I was specifically responding to the suggestion that a lack of inner strength is a turnoff. Given that the OP has acknowledged that he's recognizing that one of his issues is related to aging and the desire to be attractive to a lot of people, I really don't think framing the discussion in terms of what might or might not be a turnoff for his wife is the way to go. The central issue here isn't whether or not he's attractive enough, whether in his own eyes or in hers. It's how he chose to deal with that insecurity. (He should, of course, work on that, but not out of a desire to increase his attractiveness, and more because it would make him a better person who is less likely to brush off the possibility of collateral damage if it soothes the ego.)

Similarly, there was a mention upthread somewhere about the "180 turn", which is a strategy usually aimed at betrayed spouses who are inclined to hysterically bond in the aftermath of an affair discovery. I don't think that's appropriate for this OP either, because it's specifically designed to try to make the person employing it more attractive to their spouse, and, well...see above.

Just saying that neither of these approaches are appropriate here. Trying to increase attraction just isn't the way to increase trust. Not the same thing at all. 

Sorry, the word 'attraction' threw me off the handle. Apologies. Attraction is the very least that should be on his mind right now. IMO only 'inner' qualities are important at the moment.

His betrayed wife is leaning on the first strong and masculine shoulder, who should be her husband under normal circumstances, but it is understandable that she does not trust her husband... and why should she?

 

 

[Jonttu]

2 hours ago, Yosemite said:

I think that what is probably standing out the most to your wife is the timing of the affair. You've probably known the best friend almost as long as you've known your wife. So, why didn't this affair occur while you were dating your wife or before the wedding or while she was supporting you through medical school? The best friend was just as attractive back then and was younger so the temptation should've been greater, but you didn't cheat. You waited until your wife was 1) financially dependent on you 2) had a young infant to take of and 3) was dealing with the changes in her body from pregnancy.

I don't think that the timing of your affair is a coincidence and your wife probably doesn’t either. It comes across to me like you knew that she wouldn't like it, but wouldn't have any choice but to take you back because she needs you financially and to help with her baby. It comes across as very calculating and not at all like the "mistake" that you're trying to portray it as. You thought that you had your wife underneath your thumb and you could sleep with whoever you wanted because realistically she was going to have to stay in the marriage...that's probably what's hurting your wife the most and is destroying all the trust and love that she had for you.

The one thing that you weren't expecting was for a new man to enter the picture so quickly and that's what has got you so burned up inside...because you know that if your wife sleeps with this man, you will never get over  it and consequently YOU will probably be the one to end the marriage.

You didn't start this affair to end the marriage, you thought that you could get sex from a new woman and still keep your marriage even if your wife found out. But, this new man has thrown a monkey wrench in the whole thing and now there's a much higher probability than you had calculated that the marriage will not survive.

You played with fire and now there's a very real chance that you'll get burned.

Ouch. Awesome post. If it is the case then it has been pretty cold, calculated and brutal from both him and the AP.

Maybe that is why he happily went on with flirting and bonding with the AP, knowing in the back of his mind that it will lead to sex?

Why are waywards always thinking of themself as special? If their betrayed spouses would give out signals to the opposite gender, they would absolutely find a hord of eager men/women. 

Only difference would be, that the vast majority would immediately be alerted and walk away, instead of feeding the attraction. That is the difference between a WS and a BS.

 

[heartwhole2]

It's really hard to know what a person was subconsciously banking on since humans, especially those who choose to cheat, are pretty good at lying to themselves. So I won't claim to know if this was 100% calculating or not. But I do think it's almost certain that you figured, worse case scenario you'd get caught, but your wife would be so mad at her friend that you'd get off OK. If the idea of getting caught and what would happen never occurred to you for even one second, then you really have a lot to uncover. Why were you willfully ignoring the obvious natural consequences of your choices? Are you still doing that in other areas of your life? And if you did do the calculus and think, nope, someone who just had a baby and needs me financially will definitely never leave me, then you viewed your marriage as a transactional relationship, not a transformational one. And she's decided the terms aren't to her liking any more.

Look, "what is love?" is an age-old question. You claim to love your wife in the title of this thread. But what kind of love is it? Shallow or deep? Based on emotions or based on actions? Selfless or selfish? Do you love her, or are you afraid of being without her? Is your concern for her well-being (not a good track record if that's the case) or for your own?

 

23 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

I speak this way because I cant get her to speak to me. All I know is she wants a divorce. 

 She won't even look me in the eyes.  

[ ] So you are behaving in a selfish and irrational way because . . . your wife isn't doing what you want? If she would just have a conversation with you, then you'd stop violating her boundaries? Nope. You don't get to do the wrong thing just because someone else is not doing what you want. She's not abusing you. She's not harming you. She's responding to the harm you inflicted on her. That doesn't entitle you to try to manipulate her into taking you back.

The more I read your posts, the more I see a very large ego and much entitlement. Do you think that's a turn-on or a turn-off for your wife? Could it be that OW really is on your level when it comes to character and behavior?

Look, I believe that everyone is a human being deserving of dignity. I believe that all but the most disordered persons can learn new ways of being. I think there's hope for you, but the sort of person you should aspire to be would never try to trap someone who wants to get away. Sometimes loving means letting them go.

Edited January 31, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[Alpacalia]

7 hours ago, Jonttu said:

Everything is possible.

*Inner strenght* - guys should know about it. When a woman senses inner weakness in a guy, it is a complete turn-off.

I'm not sure it's beneficial to give the OP false hope at this point.

Chances are most likely that there's no coming back from this.

[Yosemite]

1 hour ago, Jonttu said:

Why are waywards always thinking of themself as special?

This is the million dollar question. 

[Italian Muse]

22 hours ago, Alpaca said:

That's good OP (that you'll honor her wishes).

She's probably still in shock.

Give her space.

I urge you to realize the impact of your actions. This needs to be known, seen, and felt by her. Remorse over it is what will bring you to humbly broken humility. Embrace it. Face all of it and own it. That’s what a man does.

 

 

Im trying to do all of these things. I'm also giving her space. I no longer pressure her, to tell me what she wants. I am trying to be respectful and thoughtful and take a deep breath,and let her have control. 

[Italian Muse]

19 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

She will continue to talk to trusted friends and family as well as her physician and therapist and they will support her decision. She may have already talked to some attorneys for an initial consultation to hire the right one.

Whether or not you go to therapy won't make that much difference. It depends on how she feels, who she confides and what professional advice she is getting. It's not up to you.

 

I know. I have given her space and I do respect her wishes. I've done the unforgiven and all I ask now of her to please not withhold my baby from me. 

[Italian Muse]

5 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

It's really hard to know what a person was subconsciously banking on since humans, especially those who choose to cheat, are pretty good at lying to themselves. So I won't claim to know if this was 100% calculating or not. But I do think it's almost certain that you figured, worse case scenario you'd get caught, but your wife would be so mad at her friend that you'd get off OK. If the idea of getting caught and what would happen never occurred to you for even one second, then you really have a lot to uncover. Why were you willfully ignoring the obvious natural consequences of your choices? Are you still doing that in other areas of your life? And if you did do the calculus and think, nope, someone who just had a baby and needs me financially will definitely never leave me, then you viewed your marriage as a transactional relationship, not a transformational one. And she's decided the terms aren't to her liking any more.

Look, "what is love?" is an age-old question. You claim to love your wife in the title of this thread. But what kind of love is it? Shallow or deep? Based on emotions or based on actions? Selfless or selfish? Do you love her, or are you afraid of being without her? Is your concern for her well-being (not a good track record if that's the case) or for your own?

 

[ ] So you are behaving in a selfish and irrational way because . . . your wife isn't doing what you want? If she would just have a conversation with you, then you'd stop violating her boundaries? Nope. You don't get to do the wrong thing just because someone else is not doing what you want. She's not abusing you. She's not harming you. She's responding to the harm you inflicted on her. That doesn't entitle you to try to manipulate her into taking you back.

The more I read your posts, the more I see a very large ego and much entitlement. Do you think that's a turn-on or a turn-off for your wife? Could it be that OW really is on your level when it comes to character and behavior?

Look, I believe that everyone is a human being deserving of dignity. I believe that all but the most disordered persons can learn new ways of being. I think there's hope for you, but the sort of person you should aspire to be would never try to trap someone who wants to get away. Sometimes loving means letting them go.

I do love her. I have a lot of issues to work through I never knew I had. I know I say this all the time, bit I don't know why I cheated. I was attracted to this other woman and I was sexually selfish. But. My wife is at no fault. I felt so guilty for cheating but couldn't stop. My wife did me everything. She's a wonderful wife. A wonderful Mom. We were best friend's and I step outside of my Marriage I cannot say why other than I saw this sexy woman I wanted sex with. She's not someone I would ever want to be in a relationship with. My sex life was great with my wife. I was just. Selfish and a disgusting.

Now I can't give my wife a good explanation. She wants a divorce and I just feel lost. I don't know what else to say. I just feel numb. I feel so much regret. Being caught was a relief. I hated the lying and deciet. I have no explanation for what I did. 

[Italian Muse]

22 hours ago, basil67 said:

It doesn’t make sense that your hopes and wishes are expressed as demands because she can’t bear to speak to you or look at you.  This is all sounding very self centred on your part.  

I can't explain anything. I don't know why I did what I did.

[Italian Muse]

5 hours ago, Alpaca said:

I'm not sure it's beneficial to give the OP false hope at this point.

Chances are most likely that there's no coming back from this.

I have now accepted there's possibly no coming back. She wants a divorce. I don't know how or why I cheated. She's my everything

[Italian Muse]

22 hours ago, Alpaca said:

That's good OP (that you'll honor her wishes).

She's probably still in shock.

Give her space.

I urge you to realize the impact of your actions. This needs to be known, seen, and felt by her. Remorse over it is what will bring you to humbly broken humility. Embrace it. Face all of it and own it. That’s what a man does.

 

 

I agree

[Lotsgoingon]

Dude, you have some ideas of why you cheated. If you want to go on with your life, you need to figure that out. You are probably editing your thinking and blocking yourself.

If you have no reasons, then that itself is a major problem for being in a healthy marriage. That means you are wildly out of touch with yourself, with no clue as to your motivations, your goals, your attractions, your strengths, your weaknesses, your secret fantasies and on and on.

I keep coming  back to you calling your wife an "angel." I think you secretly saw her as gullible and someone you could fool and cheat on because I don't think you really respected her--and by respect I mean I don't think you had fear of angering and betraying her. I'm guessing that's why you are so shocked that she is dating. Angels don't move on so quickly. So she has blown up your "angel" theory of your wife. 

Spouses annoy each other in fantastic marriages, so for you to call her an angel and seem to mean it is strange to me. I'm wondering if you were the dominant partner and if she catered to you. That's not an angel. That's just someone who catered to you. And now I'm remembering your words about privacy and seems to me that you might be someone who resisted introspection and real thinking about your life. Well that horse can't run but so far in our modern, complicated, rapidly changing society where people have extremely high expectations and demands on marriages and marriage partners. Time for you to develop some self-awareness. It's one of the most important survival tools in modern society, probably all societies, but absolutely required in our complicated world these days. 

Time to learn about yourself. Because look, let's say in a few years you want to date again, no woman worth anything will want to date someone who has no clue as to why he destroyed the life he was so in love with. I'd tell any woman I knew to stay the heck away from you. Worse, I would suspect you of holding back and not speaking the truth. But here I do believe you when you say you have no clue. Time to get one. And btw: life is so much richer when you can understand yourself. When you do that and you notice say that you are feeling drawn towards a self-destructive move, you can catch yourself, you can prevent yourself from getting into tempting situations in the first place. 

[Italian Muse]

15 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Dude, you have some ideas of why you cheated. If you want to go on with your life, you need to figure that out. You are probably editing your thinking and blocking yourself.

If you have no reasons, then that itself is a major problem for being in a healthy marriage. That means you are wildly out of touch with yourself, with no clue as to your motivations, your goals, your attractions, your strengths, your weaknesses, your secret fantasies and on and on.

I keep coming  back to you calling your wife an "angel." I think you secretly saw her as gullible and someone you could fool and cheat on because I don't think you really respected her--and by respect I mean I don't think you had fear of angering and betraying her. I'm guessing that's why you are so shocked that she is dating. Angels don't move on so quickly. So she has blown up your "angel" theory of your wife. 

Spouses annoy each other in fantastic marriages, so for you to call her an angel and seem to mean it is strange to me. I'm wondering if you were the dominant partner and if she catered to you. That's not an angel. That's just someone who catered to you. And now I'm remembering your words about privacy and seems to me that you might be someone who resisted introspection and real thinking about your life. Well that horse can't run but so far in our modern, complicated, rapidly changing society where people have extremely high expectations and demands on marriages and marriage partners. Time for you to develop some self-awareness. It's one of the most important survival tools in modern society, probably all societies, but absolutely required in our complicated world these days. 

Time to learn about yourself. Because look, let's say in a few years you want to date again, no woman worth anything will want to date someone who has no clue as to why he destroyed the life he was so in love with. I'd tell any woman I knew to stay the heck away from you. Worse, I would suspect you of holding back and not speaking the truth. But here I do believe you when you say you have no clue. Time to get one. And btw: life is so much richer when you can understand yourself. When you do that and you notice say that you are feeling drawn towards a self-destructive move, you can catch yourself, you can prevent yourself from getting into tempting situations in the first place. 

I call my wife a angel because she's amazing.  She is FAR from gullible or someone I thought was easy to cheat on. She is very strong and she has  been independent from the day I met her. 

She has no family she has achieved success all on her own. She is on the verge of a PhD on her own. She depends on me financially because she just had our baby. She has always been strong and independent,  I know she doesn't need. She has been with me because she wanted to be, because she loved me. Not because I was the money maker or anything,  she makes plenty of money. She was just in a traditional wife role because we just had a baby. I want to financially support her. Tables turned she could certainly support me!

I love her. She's a Angel because she has a kind and pure heart. No more no less. I do nor understand why everyone is having issues with me calling her an Angel. 

She's kicked me from our house and is seeking a divorce. Nothing she has done since I destroyed our marriage is the actions of anyone who is gullible or foolish. I just want to save our marriage.  

SHE'S NOT  dating. Iwas wrong in saying she was. This guy. He has feelings for her, but to her he's a friend. He has been helping her out. Only because she wants nothing to do with me. 

I am just really jealous of this situation.  But I have no say in how she lives her life at this point sadly.

 

 

 

 

[heartwhole2]

You have a big disconnect between your words and your actions, and because of that most people would give very little credence to your words at the moment.

Your words:
I love my wife.
She's an angel.
The OW is terrible.
I was selfish.

Your actions:
You cheated on your wife, but this was no ordinary affair. You chose an affair partner who was both your wife's best friend and your childcare. You had sex in your own home when there was a chance of your wife walking in on you. I'm trying to word this kindly, but if you weren't adding extra malice to your affair for some subconscious reason, then you are an incredibly poor assessor of risk. Is there anything in your background that would cause you to be self-destructive? Were you raised to believe that the world revolves around you? Were women viewed more as accessories and less as autonomous humans in your upbringing?

After being found out, you have acted out in socially unacceptable ways and have been seemingly clueless as to why this is wrong. This makes me wonder again about your subconscious views about women. You have acted in embarrassing, violent, and possessive ways, and when called out on it you said you had to act this way because your wife wouldn't listen to you . . . it seemingly never occurred to you that she could be an autonomous person with a right not to listen to you.

Now maybe I am wrong to imbue any of this with male/female dynamics because there are certainly scorned women who react in a "you will not reject me" way, though generally I'd guess their actions would be more subtle. Do you have trouble with other inter-personal relationships? Have you blown up at anybody at work? Did you have any prior relationships where things ended badly?

There has to be more here. A family member has married someone who is always getting fired from his jobs, kicked out of church (I mean, how often does that happen?), etc. This is a 60 year old man, but every time he happens, he is 100% convinced that he is the victim. I even had an acquaintance reach out who knew him from a job to explain that he can't be trusted. Surely he is unaware of how he is bringing this on himself, and if he were to gain that insight, he could stop blowing up things that are important to him and suffering the consequences. In his case, my assessment is that he is very insecure and he takes it poorly when somebody doesn't kiss the ground he walks on. He tries to get attention by telling offensive jokes, which can obviously backfire. And he'll lie when he gets caught, so people don't trust him.

So try to step outside of yourself and look at the situation as an un-invested bystander. What do you see when you see a guy with jealousy issues? What do you see when someone can't respect boundaries? What do you see when someone takes huge risks with the possibility of blowing up everything good in their life? What do you see when someone doesn't worry about how their actions will impact their spouse? What do you see when someone won't take no for an answer? What do you think of that guy?

[spiderowl]

On 1/28/2022 at 5:18 AM, Italian Muse said:

Thank You everyone for the advice. I've taken away this. Seek help. Talk to someone. Give her peace and space. 

 I went for a run. Listened to meditation and I really tried to get my mind right. It helped. Especially since, I was feeling I should at least drive by my house. See if she was awake, if there was a light on.

well it wasn't. But I saw this man's SUV parked in my driveway. I know my wife isn't a easy woman. But why [ ] else would a man be at her place at 12:13 at night. 

I have to say I put up this random post, because I am talking myself out of running up into this house and finding out why [ ]  he's alone with my wife.

I am really trying hard here. I'm rereading these post. Especially the ones that tell me. To leave her alone. Respect her space. 

I know I'm in the wrong but this is literally driving me crazy. The way this guy is just diving in and making moves. Ok. I rest my case. I had to get this off my chest. Losing my mind over here. 

You really need to control yourself here, Italian Muse.  Your wife is a free agent and can see whoever she likes.  The SUV guy is free to see her too without any harassment from you.  You are acting like you possess her and you don't.  I am not saying this to hurt you but to make you realise that you are in danger of blowing up with jealousy and possibly ending up with a restraining order.  This would not stand you in good stead during the divorce or with respect to access to your child.

When you were unfaithful to your wife in such a blatant and 'in her face' way, you gave up any right to complain about her seeing anyone else.  Don't confuse jealousy with caring about your wife or talking about her as if she is less moral in any way.  You are the one who cheated originally not her.

I was trying to think how I would feel in her position.  I come home and find my beloved husband in bed with my best friend.  I would be totally shocked and hurt beyond belief.  I would push everyone away while I tried to process the hurt.  I would not want to see you or hear any excuses - no excuses would be good enough.  I would be thinking, even if I forgave him this, I could not get that image out of my head.  Even if I forgave him for cheating, I would not be able to trust him again.  

I think you need to accept that this is over and leave your wife to find her own happiness without your interference and jealousy.  If you want to work on anything, work on building trust with her, respecting her space, being a total gentleman, and caring for her from a distance by not messing her about financially.  If you stick to this kind of behaviour, it will show her that you do know how to respect her, despite the way you have treated her so far.  She needs to be able to trust you and feel safe.  At the moment, she does not want to talk but I think if you gave her time and left her to it, she might at some point open up a discussion.  It might only be to confirm a divorce, but nothing you can do now is going to dissuade her from that if that is the way she decides to go.  All you can do now is to accept she has freedom to enjoy her life or seek comfort how she chooses, while you focus on building trust from a distance.

Edited January 31, 2022 by spiderowl

[mark clemson]

If your wife is really going for other men right now just after this and in the initial throes of divorce, perhaps she is not really the "angel" you seem to be making her out to be?

Maybe she just "needs something" but I find it odd that she would (apparently) be so quickly starting to see other people. Perhaps it's just a misguided attempt to "cope" with distress, but it seems like an extremely emotionally hurt person would more likely be nursing their wounds and "not ready for anything yet" due to emotional distress.

Dunno. Everyone's different, but it would seem like possibly she's had pent up "interest" in other men for a while now, and is taking the opportunity to start looking into that. I could certainly be wrong. But I've read a LOT of BS's here state how they're "not ready for anything" during their initial Dday shock/distress period (which can easily last months from what I can tell). At any rate, for her to be looking around (IF she's really doing that?) recently after a Dday and with the divorce papers not even filed seems "off" IMO.

Edited February 1, 2022 by mark clemson

[heartwhole2]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

If your wife is really going for other men right now just after this and in the initial throes of divorce, perhaps she is not really the "angel" you seem to be making her out to be?

Maybe she just "needs something" but I find it odd that she would (apparently) be so quickly starting to see other people. Perhaps it's just a misguided attempt to "cope" with distress, but it seems like an extremely emotionally hurt person would more likely be nursing their wounds and "not ready for anything yet" due to emotional distress.

Dunno. Everyone's different, but it would seem like possibly she's had pent up "interest" in other men for a while now, and is taking the opportunity to start looking into that. I could certainly be wrong. But I've read a LOT of BS's here state how they're "not ready for anything" during their initial Dday shock/distress period (which can easily last months from what I can tell). At any rate, for her to be looking around (IF she's really doing that?) recently after a Dday and with the divorce papers not even filed seems "off" IMO.

Yeah, but it's not just the initial throes of divorce; she's suffered a trauma at the hands of her husband and her best friend. I'm not saying this is a good time for her to be dating, but I don't think it means anything is off. She needs to replace all of that emotional support from her two most important people who are now horribly untrustworthy. And she is feeling rejected as a romantic partner. Maybe it's ego-soothing. Maybe it's a rebound. Maybe she's just a grown woman who gets to say, "My life sucks right now and if I want to enjoy a little fun, then I'm going to."

I think the important factor that's different from most affairs here is how traumatizing and personal the discovery and choice of affair partner were. So instead of feeling that mate-guarding instinct and being motivated to save the marriage, she's just totally eviscerated. I think it's possible for something like to numb you completely to your WS.

OP, you said your role with her was to be her KISA. I don't see how you can get back to that. What are you going to save her from . . . yourself? Because you've hurt her more than anyone on the outside ever could. It may be that the marriage met her needs because it made her feel safe. And now there's no way to imagine it as a place of safety again, not when you hurt and humiliated her in that way and then wouldn't take no for an answer. And maybe this guy is just a friend, or maybe he's the KISA of the moment, or maybe he's a FWB. But you know what? It's not your business. She has ever right to separate from you (most people would say she was crazy if she didn't). She has every right to make her own decisions now. It's possible that she's setting you up as well . . . if you keep violating her privacy and acting crazy, she can get a restraining order and the upper hand with custody matters. Or if there's any part of her that is open to reconciliation, then maybe this is part pay-back, part a test. Can you learn to control yourself when everything is on the line? Because if you can't, then what kind of a bet are you? 

[Italian Muse]

10 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

You have a big disconnect between your words and your actions, and because of that most people would give very little credence to your words at the moment.

Your words:
I love my wife.
She's an angel.
The OW is terrible.
I was selfish.

Your actions:
You cheated on your wife, but this was no ordinary affair. You chose an affair partner who was both your wife's best friend and your childcare. You had sex in your own home when there was a chance of your wife walking in on you. I'm trying to word this kindly, but if you weren't adding extra malice to your affair for some subconscious reason, then you are an incredibly poor assessor of risk. Is there anything in your background that would cause you to be self-destructive? Were you raised to believe that the world revolves around you? Were women viewed more as accessories and less as autonomous humans in your upbringing?

After being found out, you have acted out in socially unacceptable ways and have been seemingly clueless as to why this is wrong. This makes me wonder again about your subconscious views about women. You have acted in embarrassing, violent, and possessive ways, and when called out on it you said you had to act this way because your wife wouldn't listen to you . . . it seemingly never occurred to you that she could be an autonomous person with a right not to listen to you.

Now maybe I am wrong to imbue any of this with male/female dynamics because there are certainly scorned women who react in a "you will not reject me" way, though generally I'd guess their actions would be more subtle. Do you have trouble with other inter-personal relationships? Have you blown up at anybody at work? Did you have any prior relationships where things ended badly?

There has to be more here. A family member has married someone who is always getting fired from his jobs, kicked out of church (I mean, how often does that happen?), etc. This is a 60 year old man, but every time he happens, he is 100% convinced that he is the victim. I even had an acquaintance reach out who knew him from a job to explain that he can't be trusted. Surely he is unaware of how he is bringing this on himself, and if he were to gain that insight, he could stop blowing up things that are important to him and suffering the consequences. In his case, my assessment is that he is very insecure and he takes it poorly when somebody doesn't kiss the ground he walks on. He tries to get attention by telling offensive jokes, which can obviously backfire. And he'll lie when he gets caught, so people don't trust him.

So try to step outside of yourself and look at the situation as an un-invested bystander. What do you see when you see a guy with jealousy issues? What do you see when someone can't respect boundaries? What do you see when someone takes huge risks with the possibility of blowing up everything good in their life? What do you see when someone doesn't worry about how their actions will impact their spouse? What do you see when someone won't take no for an answer? What do you think of that guy?

You have said many thoughtful things. I reread your post a couple times and then pondered it. 

I realize I have a lot of issues. I think I have always felt I had control. I have had other romantic relationships that have ended badly. 

My wife is the only woman I have ever fallen in love with. The only woman I have felt was worthy of all respect. It was mostly from the way she Carrie's herself,  the other women I have been involved with have always been, wild.

I have been learning a lot about my faults and my thoughts. I am not okay, and I realize I have a lot of work. 

[Italian Muse]

21 hours ago, S2B said:

We’re you cheating while she was pregnant? How long did that last?

No, I wasn't cheating while she was pregnant.  It started after she the OW began babysitting our son. 

[Italian Muse]

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

If your wife is really going for other men right now just after this and in the initial throes of divorce, perhaps she is not really the "angel" you seem to be making her out to be?

Maybe she just "needs something" but I find it odd that she would (apparently) be so quickly starting to see other people. Perhaps it's just a misguided attempt to "cope" with distress, but it seems like an extremely emotionally hurt person would more likely be nursing their wounds and "not ready for anything yet" due to emotional distress.

Dunno. Everyone's different, but it would seem like possibly she's had pent up "interest" in other men for a while now, and is taking the opportunity to start looking into that. I could certainly be wrong. But I've read a LOT of BS's here state how they're "not ready for anything" during their initial Dday shock/distress period (which can easily last months from what I can tell). At any rate, for her to be looking around (IF she's really doing that?) recently after a Dday and with the divorce papers not even filed seems "off" IMO.

She isn't interested in other men. This guy. Apparently he is being a good friend. I know she's definitely not chasing other men. He's just hanging around now. I feel because I'm no longer in the picture. He has his fingers crossed that he will  weasel his way into her heart, by always being a shoulder to lean on.  

Well. We'll see how that works out for him. Anyway. I  didnt mean to co.e across as saying my wife is out chasing men. 

She's in the throes of depression.  

[heartwhole2]

20 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

You have said many thoughtful things. I reread your post a couple times and then pondered it. 

I realize I have a lot of issues. I think I have always felt I had control. I have had other romantic relationships that have ended badly. 

My wife is the only woman I have ever fallen in love with. The only woman I have felt was worthy of all respect. It was mostly from the way she Carrie's herself,  the other women I have been involved with have always been, wild.

I have been learning a lot about my faults and my thoughts. I am not okay, and I realize I have a lot of work. 

This theme keeps cropping up . . . the implication that it's OK to treat the crazy ones poorly, that respect is conditional.

Why were you dating people you didn't respect? Why did you have an affair with someone you didn't respect? No one is forcing you to do this. Do you take advantage of people in other areas of your life if you think they are not angels?

Likewise, if your wife has a relationship with someone new, that's her choice. No one is forcing her to do it. (You've tried coercing her into continuing a relationship with you, and it hasn't worked, right? So if she's seeing someone, it's by choice.)

And maybe some day, you can look at someone making poor decisions, which you have done a lot recently, and offer them more compassion and dignity. Don't take advantage of them just because they don't have their act together like your wife did before you cut her down to size. (Do you think that, on some level, that was your intent?) Again, I'm not trying to rag on you. I'm just trying to help you figure out why you threw the grenade. In other areas of your life, how do you handle it when there's something stressful that you'd rather just ignore? Do you have super-human abilities to stick your head in the sand? Do you have impulse issues in other areas?

[mark clemson]

12 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

She isn't interested in other men. This guy. Apparently he is being a good friend. I know she's definitely not chasing other men. He's just hanging around now.

12 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

 I'm not saying this is a good time for her to be dating, but I don't think it means anything is off. She needs to replace all of that emotional support

Okay. I think IF she were out looking to genuinely romantically bond/start relationships with new men, that would suggest to me she had been thinking about that option for a while. "Rebounding" very soon after a Dday in a LT marriage seems off to me (at least in the sense that the option of looking for new partners must have been something the person had at least been thinking about for a while).  But as noted that doesn't appear to be the case + the emotional support aspect indeed makes sense.

Edited February 1, 2022 by mark clemson

[heartwhole2]

35 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Okay. I think IF she were out looking to genuinely romantically bond/start relationships with new men, that would suggest to me she had been thinking about that option for a while. "Rebounding" very soon after a Dday in a LT marriage seems off to me (at least in the sense that the option of looking for new partners must have been something the person had at least been thinking about for a while).  But as noted that doesn't appear to be the case + the emotional support aspect indeed makes sense.

Well, in case it's useful to OP, I'll share that after DDay I thought (sort of subconsciously, sort of not) about reaching out to an old boyfriend who seems to pop up every few years being vaguely flirty. He had just broken up with a long term girlfriend and I was sure I could cry on his (metaphorical) shoulder and engage in sort of EA/sexting if I wanted to. And I thought about how it would feel good to be wanted instead of the old ball and chain making my husband give up his girlfriend, poor lad. But of course, I think I'm generally honest with myself and self-aware, and I always try to look into the future and see how things might play out, and I didn't see any good coming of that except a temporary ego boost. And ultimately my self-interest (no messy entanglements to unravel) and my compassion (no need to use someone else to make myself feel better) swayed me against it. But it was a very real impulse that I am sure is shared by many BW. Having your husband cheat on you when you've just made him a father is quite the kick in the teeth and it's normal to want to self-soothe and maybe inflict a little revenge.

[mark clemson]

Honestly it's something I could possibly see myself doing if I were cheated on. But then again I look at other women all the time, and make no claims to be some sort of "angel", at least in the sense I think OP meant about his wife. I'm more a horndog type by nature.

Seems to me that someone who's happy enough stay in the marriage, but might have thoughts (not actions) of "extramarital activity" might react this way, particularly if they're hurt but not so highly traumatized by a Dday that they zero interest in romantic activity.

Anyhow, I had no intent of this turning into debate club. I stated my opinion above and definitely believe it's ONE valid way to look a things, BUT it's apparently not relevant to OP's specific situation anyhow.