I cheated on my wife is there a chance I can ever get her back. I love her.

[vla1120]

3 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

I have had a inability to control my impulses. Especially with women. In the past. Before I fell for my wife. I didn't respect women. My wife is the first woman who has changed my mind. I  didn't push her for sex. I respected her too much. 

I thought I grew out of impulses of the past. I had not. I admit I talk myself into stupid s***. Like, for example. I saw my wife and baby. I was feeling some kind of way. I figured I could convince her to have sex with me.  Then she would forgive me.  I  snapped back to reality when I began touching her and she asked me to never touch her again. 

I am getting help. I know I have a lot of work to do.  I know that if the role was reversed.  I  would be in jail. I would have killed the guy. My blood boils thinking about anyone else touching my wife.  I know I have a long way to go. 

Ugh. You still don't respect women. I'm glad you are getting help. You should also talk to your therapist about your disrespect of women. Instead of respect your wife's feelings, you tried to convince her to have sex with you. You began touching her without her consent. You have a LOT of work to do. 

I don't remember whether you indicated whether your baby is a girl or a boy. If you have a daughter, just imagine her coming up against a boy/man with your mentality. Maybe that will help put things in perspective for you.

Yes. You do have a long way to go. Let her go. Work on yourself - not just the impulse control, but also your view of women and taking responsibility for your actions without placing blame on anyone else. Leave your wife alone unless it has to do with your co-parenting your child. Even then, just try to be a good co-parent without exerting any pressure or trying to influence your wife about your relationship.

[Lotsgoingon]

Absolutely you need to get to counseling asap. A really good one.

You're stil describing your wife as an angel and you indicate you didn't pursue sex with her because you "respected" her. 

Sounds like you might have some Madonna-Whore splitting going on. Google Madonna Whore Complex. It's dividing women into good girls (cute, hnest, nice, motherly--and asexual) ... and whores (sexy, powerful but not necessariy "nice" or maternal).

That whole complex has been this confining box that women have been fighting as part of equality. (No such role split going on with men. Guys can be dogs and great dads.)

But the Madonna-Whore thing has also jammed up many a man.  Sounds like you put your wife in the Madonna category. The friend/affair partner was in the whore category--calculating, demanding. And now you're feeling guilty because you betrayed an angel. No, you betrayed someone that you were deeply committed to--that's enough. Making wife an angel doesn't get you anywhere. Regular, flawed spouses deserve loyalty to. 

What happens is you undermine your desire and lust for your wife--by putting her in your angel category. 

 

 

 

[Italian Muse]

6 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Absolutely you need to get to counseling asap. A really good one.

You're stil describing your wife as an angel and you indicate you didn't pursue sex with her because you "respected" her. 

Sounds like you might have some Madonna-Whore splitting going on. Google Madonna Whore Complex. It's dividing women into good girls (cute, hnest, nice, motherly--and asexual) ... and whores (sexy, powerful but not necessariy "nice" or maternal).

That whole complex has been this confining box that women have been fighting as part of equality. (No such role split going on with men. Guys can be dogs and great dads.)

But the Madonna-Whore thing has also jammed up many a man.  Sounds like you put your wife in the Madonna category. The friend/affair partner was in the whore category--calculating, demanding. And now you're feeling guilty because you betrayed an angel. No, you betrayed someone that you were deeply committed to--that's enough. Making wife an angel doesn't get you anywhere. Regular, flawed spouses deserve loyalty to. 

What happens is you undermine your desire and lust for your wife--by putting her in your angel category. 

 

 

 

I understand what your saying. I meant I didnt have sex with my wife, while we dating until she was ready. I really grew to respect her. The way she carries herself I never had a woman that way. 

Most were very needy and didnt have much self respect.  My wife showed me how to respect women. Before I was a Dog I admit. She made me want to be good for her. 

My wide definitely has flaws. I call her an angel because others do. She always puts others first. She's very kind and always sees the best in others and treats everyone with respect.  

Even now with what I have done, she hasn't belittled me. She hasn't called me names. [ ] 

I hate myself because I have always been proud of the fact that I was a good husband. I treated her with the respect she deserved.  And if she bragged about how lucky she was to have me. I felt pride in that. 

Now. I  ruined everything. I think she's having sex with a man she hardly knows now. I'm sure out of her hurt and not thinking through her actions. 

Her friend. My affair partner is the one who introduced them. She pulled that  because I refused to leave my wife, I was on the verge of breaking it off. So she made some terrible moves. So yes. I  have very little respect for her. Because of that. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language, violence

[Estes]

9 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

My affair partner is the one who introduced them. She pulled that s*** because I refused to leave my wife, I was on the verge of breaking it off. So she made some terrible moves. So yes. I  have very little respect for her. Because of that. 

Nobody forced you to do anything.

In every post you talk about yourself and how this has affected you. Here and there you throw in something about how affected SHE was- noticeably it's written AFTER the part about you.

Your lack of accountability and continued selfishness is astounding.

[heartwhole2]

1 hour ago, Italian Muse said:

I contemplated it every time I cheated. I would get nauseous sometimes after. I was depressed at the end.  Almost hoping to be "caught" because I couldn't confess something so terrible to my wife.

The other woman was telling me she loved me.  Demanding I stop having sex with my wife!! She even went as far as introducing my wife to this guy my wife is now hanging around with. I found out he wanted to sleep with her. So now I'm feeling resentment towards the other woman. I feel she set me up! Threatened to tell everyone about the affair,  she said she loved me.  I think her obsession with me, scared me.

I never suspected the fall would be this bad. I have so much regret. My heart is breaking.  I see how badly I hurt my wife. She's lost everything. Her family,  best friend and her health. She's extremely frail. I caused this. Her dizzy spells are back. I never thought I would cause this to happen.  I'm so ashamed and it feels like a death. 

Whoo boy. OK, so the person you were betraying your wife with behind her back turned out not to . . . follow some imaginary rules about how to be a nice and respectful cheater? Do you think on the spectrum of human qualities, the minority who cheat tend to be on the more kind, selfless, self-aware, humble, honest, and giving side of the equation, or the less kind etc. side?

Now interestingly, I've seen many MM at your stage in the process blame their wives for the affair. Mine did. But you are reserving all of that for the OW, the person who made no vows to you. So she turned out to be just as bad at being a friend as you are at being a husband. This doesn't mean you can blame her. Shouldn't you have thought, hmmmm, this seems like a bad idea. She must have an issue with self-worth if she's throwing herself at me. She can't be trusted if she would stab her best friend in the back and mess up our childcare situation. This will end badly.

Her "obsession" with you scared you . . . what exactly are you doing to your wife? Yes, OW is surely a hot mess express, but she's irrelevant now. My husband tried to claim that the OW "seduced him with sweetness." Um yeah, it's super sweet to ask someone to throw away his marriage for some sex on the side. What a sweetheart! What he meant was that he wasn't aware of his own issues with self-esteem, and that he couldn't believe someone would want him so much.

It is like a death. The future you both thought you would have is shattered now. Even if she gives you another chance, believe me that things will never be the same. Life can and will still be beautiful and poignant and you will have many things to be grateful for, but that simple trust and ability to take the strength of your marriage for granted will never be the same. Or, more likely, you are headed for divorce, and your futures will be with different partners. That wasn't what you envisioned when you brought a child into this world. Again, your counseling is a good place for processing this grief. Certainly the denial stage has not done you any favors.

[Italian Muse]

Just now, Estes said:

Nobody forced you to do anything.

In every post you talk about yourself and how this has affected you. Here and there you throw in something about how affected SHE was- noticeably it's written AFTER the part about you.

Your lack of accountability and continued selfishness is astounding.

I've taken accountability from the start. All I have done is tell how I take full responsibility and blame. Read all my post. I acknowledge everything about what my actions have done to her. 

I think you started reading my UPDATE post. Not the original.  Because the reason I posted anything because I was seeking advice on how I can make her better from the pain I caused.

[heartwhole2]

2 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

I've taken accountability from the start. All I have done is tell how I take full responsibility and blame. Read all my post. I acknowledge everything about what my actions have done to her. 

I think you started reading my UPDATE post. Not the original.  Because the reason I posted anything because I was seeking advice on how I can make her better from the pain I caused.

This reply isn't to me, but what we're trying to point out is that your posts are myopic. You can tell what a person is prioritizing by what they mention most often, most forcefully, etc. You say your concern is for your wife, but you have resisted everything she has asked of you. You even implied that you thought your financial situation gave you some right to expect reconciliation.

Read How To Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair by Linda J. MacDonald. You can buy it on Amazon.

[vla1120]

5 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

because I was seeking advice on how I can make her better from the pain I caused.

Distance yourself from her. Leave her alone and respect her boundaries. The only contact you should be having with her now is for co-parenting your child. Period. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Dude, google therapists in your area right now. Pick up the phone and schedule an appointment with someone.  Schedule with several people. Tell them you want to meet and see what they can do. Keep scheduling until you find someone who gets you, who feels great to visit and who is smart as ##%t. 

Right now you are in massive, massive pain, with guit, anguish, self-rejection, self-loathing, you probably feel stupid, hopeless, you blew up your life.  It's  impossible to think clearly when we're in massive pain. Can't be done. Brain is spending all its energy coping with the pain. You need someone to guide your thinking and healing. 

Google and pick up the phone and call some counselors. Today. In the next hour. Do you have money for that?

Feeling horrible can itself be a distraction if it's not tied to constructive action. We feel "good" about ourselves that we are feeling so bad and guilty. But that doesn't get you anywhere. Take some action. Sharing here is  ndeed action. Now go the next step. Do you know anyone who has been to therapy or counseling? If so, you can call them for recommendation. Otherwise google and just set something up. You can always change later.

 

[Italian Muse]

5 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

Whoo boy. OK, so the person you were betraying your wife with behind her back turned out not to . . . follow some imaginary rules about how to be a nice and respectful cheater? Do you think on the spectrum of human qualities, the minority who cheat tend to be on the more kind, selfless, self-aware, humble, honest, and giving side of the equation, or the less kind etc. side?

Now interestingly, I've seen many MM at your stage in the process blame their wives for the affair. Mine did. But you are reserving all of that for the OW, the person who made no vows to you. So she turned out to be just as bad at being a friend as you are at being a husband. This doesn't mean you can blame her. Shouldn't you have thought, hmmmm, this seems like a bad idea. She must have an issue with self-worth if she's throwing herself at me. She can't be trusted if she would stab her best friend in the back and mess up our childcare situation. This will end badly.

Her "obsession" with you scared you . . . what exactly are you doing to your wife? Yes, OW is surely a hot mess express, but she's irrelevant now. My husband tried to claim that the OW "seduced him with sweetness." Um yeah, it's super sweet to ask someone to throw away his marriage for some sex on the side. What a sweetheart! What he meant was that he wasn't aware of his own issues with self-esteem, and that he couldn't believe someone would want him so much.

It is like a death. The future you both thought you would have is shattered now. Even if she gives you another chance, believe me that things will never be the same. Life can and will still be beautiful and poignant and you will have many things to be grateful for, but that simple trust and ability to take the strength of your marriage for granted will never be the same. Or, more likely, you are headed for divorce, and your futures will be with different partners. That wasn't what you envisioned when you brought a child into this world. Again, your counseling is a good place for processing this grief. Certainly the denial stage has not done you any favors.

I do not blame anyone but myself.  I could have prevented this. I certainly do not blame my wife. She is completely innocent here. 

My life will never be the same. I know that I will NEVER remarry after this woman. My wife despite my action is the love of my life. I cant replace her. I know I would always be in love with her,  so pretending to love someone else would be living a lie. My focus is my son. My patients my family. I know I have single handedly destroyed my life.

[Italian Muse]

5 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Dude, google therapists in your area right now. Pick up the phone and schedule an appointment with someone.  Schedule with several people. Tell them you want to meet and see what they can do. Keep scheduling until you find someone who gets you, who feels great to visit and who is smart as ##%t. 

Right now you are in massive, massive pain, with guit, anguish, self-rejection, self-loathing, you probably feel stupid, hopeless, you blew up your life.  It's  impossible to think clearly when we're in massive pain. Can't be done. Brain is spending all its energy coping with the pain. You need someone to guide your thinking and healing. 

Google and pick up the phone and call some counselors. Today. In the next hour. Do you have money for that?

Feeling horrible can itself be a distraction if it's not tied to constructive action. We feel "good" about ourselves that we are feeling so bad and guilty. But that doesn't get you anywhere. Take some action. Sharing here is  ndeed action. Now go the next step. Do you know anyone who has been to therapy or counseling? If so, you can call them for recommendation. Otherwise google and just set something up. You can always change later.

 

I am seeing someone.  But counseling has never helped me. NOTHING is going to take the pain away from the woman I love. 

I will never feel ok after what I did to her. I betrayed her in the worst way, I disappointed her and let her down. I will never get over it. 

Our son is going to be affected as well. I cant believe I allowed this to happen. I am seeing a lot of the physical effects my terrible choices have caused. 

I deserve to be depressed.  My wife was in the ER because she's unable to keep food down. Having dizzy spells and has topped going to school because she has no child care and she cant focus.  

There's nothing a counseling session can do to fix this. If my wife ends up doing self harm I would be done for. I would never be able to live with myself.  

Edited January 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[Italian Muse]

25 minutes ago, Estes said:

Nobody forced you to do anything.

In every post you talk about yourself and how this has affected you. Here and there you throw in something about how affected SHE was- noticeably it's written AFTER the part about you.

Your lack of accountability and continued selfishness is astounding.

I have done nothing but take responsibility.  Review my post 

[stillafool]

Look, you need to calm down and get control of your emotions before you mess up more than just your marriage.  Have you thought about if you lose control and do something stupid you could also lose your career and then where would you be.   Yes it hurts when the one you cheated on is done with you and moves on to someone else.  Break ups hurt like death as that is what it is the death of your relationship.  Do you have friends IRL that you can spend time with and get support from?  It's best to not spend too much time idle or alone until you can get over the hump of this hurt.  Maybe if you have time off go on a small vacation to get your head together.  You've got to do something constructive for yourself before you end up doing something stupid.  Stop driving pass her house.

Edited January 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed quote containing language

[Lotsgoingon]

If counseling isn't helping, then you have a terrible counselor and don't have a bond.

Get to a different counselor.  Dude, you gonna have to be active and action-oriented here. You can't do the passive thing "i'm not getting much out of it." Well if you said that about an auto mechanic, you'd go to another mechanic. 

Get to a different therapist. You are incapable of sorting this out on your own. Incapable. Can't do it alone. 

[vla1120]

41 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

I am seeing someone.  But counseling has never helped me.

How many times have you tried therapy? You're either seeing the wrong therapist or you're not really putting in the work required to make the changes you need to make, or you're closed off to changing the things about yourself that lead to this predicament.

[Italian Muse]

2 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

How many times have you tried therapy? You're either seeing the wrong therapist or you're not really putting in the work required to make the changes you need to make, or you're closed off to changing the things about yourself that lead to this predicament.

I have been working with a counselor.  I feel like I need to help my wife heal. I need to fix the damage I caused,  then I can fix myself.  I need to put her first. 

[Italian Muse]

On 1/27/2022 at 9:25 AM, vla1120 said:

I'm glad you realize that. I stayed with my husband for 18 years after he cheated with my best friend. I didn't catch them in the act, my 5-yr-old daughter (at the time) caught them. I stayed because I was 7 months pregnant with our youngest when he was caught. I didn't need his financial support as I was the main breadwinner. Eighteen years after the event is when I divorced him. The reason was he really never took responsibility for cheating. He blamed me. We went to marriage counseling for years. At no time did he ever throw himself at my feet and beg my forgiveness, and yet, I stayed. Maybe, just maybe, if you throw yourself at her feet and beg her forgiveness, she might consider staying. BUT, you need individual therapy to figure out why, when you had a "good marriage", you slept with her best friend - which is a double whammy. You have to explore what was going through your mind, knowing that if your wife found out, she would be devastated. Unless you are willing to genuinely put in the work, any attempt at reconciliation will fail, even if she does give you the chance.

I have tried throwing myself at her feet. But she is really stand offish. She doesn't have much contact with me. I have sent text and emails and I've left phone messages. The last time I saw her, I tried to kiss her and she asked me to never touch her again. 

Everyone advises me to leave her alone, it's over, move on. I did screw up. But I will not just walk away. I love her too much. 

[glows]

Just now, Italian Muse said:

I have tried throwing myself at her feet. But she is really stand offish. She doesn't have much contact with me. I have sent text and emails and I've left phone messages. The last time I saw her, I tried to kiss her and she asked me to never touch her again. 

Everyone advises me to leave her alone, it's over, move on. I did screw up. But I will not just walk away. I love her too much. 

Id reflect on what love is. Carrying on like this doesn't look like love from an outsider's perspective. You're spiralling and trying to make up for loss of your marriage or realization that it's potentially over. I'd like to think love is a bit more cognizant and humble in its actions, less self-centered. Throwing yourself at her feet is to gain a reaction from her that's positive for you. You're focused only on yourself.

[Italian Muse]

On 1/26/2022 at 3:34 PM, S2B said:

Was this act of sex in your own bed at home?

No. I never had sex with her in my bed.Not that it makes it better, but I never did that.

[Italian Muse]

1 minute ago, S2B said:

This is really stalkerish behavior. You’ve harmed her! Leave her alone!

she doesn’t want the man you are - she wants a better version of who you’ve been! 

you haven’t offered her anything but the man who harmed her and ruined her life - of course she wants nothing to do with you. Start changing! Start DOING what that counselor has asked you to DO to change who you are! 

How is this stalkerish? Im her HUSBAND!? I haven't stopped loving her. I d leave her alone, I see her when I visit our son. Even then, I try not to overwhelm her. 

[amerikajin]

5 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

I've taken accountability from the start. All I have done is tell how I take full responsibility and blame. Read all my post. I acknowledge everything about what my actions have done to her. 

I think you started reading my UPDATE post. Not the original.  Because the reason I posted anything because I was seeking advice on how I can make her better from the pain I caused.

I think people question whether you mean it or whether you're just apologizing and saying "Yeah, my bad." I have no doubt that you have regrets and that you feel sympathy on some level for the harm you've obviously caused. But there's a difference between regretting the consequences of your selfishness and truly empathizing with your partner and allowing her to pick up the pieces.

Your posts are all about "How do I fix this? Simple answer: you can't. This will be on your permanent record. 

You can't change what you've done in the past, but you can change how you understand the past and learn from it to become a better partner, whether it's with your currently estranged wife or with someone else. 

However, for that to happen, you have to do more than apologize. You have to empathize and be willing to let her express her emotions with brutal honesty. That's going to be really hard because she's going to say things about you and about what you've done that are going to be harsh. And she's going to keep saying them. She's going to rip your ego to shreds, and you need to be able to take it like a man. 

But I think that's just part of it. The other part is really understanding what led you to behave this way. In some of your posts you write as though everything was mostly fine until you started the affair, but I don't really think that's the case. I think from your point of view something was missing or something wasn't quite right in your relationship. And if what you say is true that you're wife is already off fooling around with another man, it doesn't sound like she was a particularly healthy individual herself. 

I won't say a random impulsive act like sex outside the marriage never happens and that it can't kill a relationship, but I've been on this planet for nearly a half century now and in my experience, affairs rarely ever are the underlying cause of relationship problems. They're almost always a symptom of other problems or issues that are unresolved.

Edited January 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[Italian Muse]

3 hours ago, S2B said:

I’m saying your ego is in the way. Why haven’t you learned how to manage your ego with the counselor?

why hasn’t counseling worked for you?

I don't know. I have always had an issue with counselors. Being a physician myself, I had to take classes in Psychology and it just all seems to appease. No counselor is going to tell me how to take her pain away. I deserve to feel bad, self hate whatever. I HATE myself for what I did. I want to fix her, the love of my life, my best friend, the mother of my son. If I can't make her okay, I don't give a damn what happens to me. 

I cannot believe that I hurt her this way. This is not who I am. If I can hurt her, I feel I am capable os just about anything. My whole life was revolved around making her life great. She needed me, my wife...I'm the only family she has. She grew up alone. Hurt, betrayed and I did the very thing that she least deserved. 

Im sorry for rambling, I just feel so undeserving of anything right now. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[vla1120]

26 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

Everyone advises me to leave her alone, it's over, move on. I did screw up. But I will not just walk away. I love her too much. 

But see, this is where you have an issue. You already made a choice that resulted in this situation. The same way you made your choice, she now gets to make her choice. This is not YOUR choice to make anymore. You really need to back off and leave her alone. Otherwise, you're behavior is bordering on stalking. You're going to get yourself in trouble. Live with the poor decision you made, take the steps necessary to ensure you never do this again (or - as you said - if she is the only woman you can ever love, accept that you've lost her and go about sleeping with whomever you please) and let HER live her life and make her choice without interference or strong-arming from you. Respect her boundaries. 

[vla1120]

What you deserve is to go into therapy with an open mind. If this therapist is not working for you, find one that will. It took me decades to finally find a therapist who "got" me and is actually helpful. You're right, quite a bit of the time, they are not effective, or they just spew psycho-babble that I could look up online by myself. However, when you find the RIGHT one - the one who will call you on your BS and make you look in the mirror and self-reflect, then you have some hope of perhaps understanding why you did this and what you can change to keep you from making the same mistake in the future. If you believe it won't work, then it won't. You are an intelligent man. You have resources at your disposal. You can find the right therapist if you put in some effort.

Edited January 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language in quote

[mark clemson]

Many people legitimately have self control issues of one kind or another. However, we really can't allow that to become an excuse for behavior or society starts to break down.

You can't "nice" someone into loving you if they're no longer attracted/can't trust, or into respecting you again if they've lost respect. Being "willing to agree to anything, you can have it all" in a divorce likely won't fly with a judge (who typically must approve an agreement) anyhow although I suppose there are always exceptions.

At any rate, from a "winning her back" perspective you may actually be better off asserting yourself and your rights in a divorce, and "doing the 180" (which you can research online). The 180 is reasonably effective applied psychology IMO and there is A CHANCE it will have her begin to respect you again and start to come around to reconciliation. The chance is NOT HIGH but IMO it's actually more likely to work than simply "losing your spine" and "caving", as it may engender some respect. "Chasing" too much (as it sounds like you have been doing) is IMO much more likely to backfire than to work, again due to the "psychological dynamics" (for lack of a better term) involved.

Botttom line: IMO you're better off trying the 180. If it works (unlikely but I suspect a greater chance than what you've been doing) great, and if it doesn't you've started off on an independent course, which may well be the only option you have anyhow.

Edited January 28, 2022 by mark clemson