I cheated on my wife is there a chance I can ever get her back. I love her.

[Italian Muse]

36 minutes ago, amerikajin said:

I think people question whether you mean it or whether you're just apologizing and saying "Yeah, my bad." I have no doubt that you have regrets and that you feel sympathy on some level for the harm you've obviously caused. But there's a difference between regretting the consequences of your selfishness and truly empathizing with your partner and allowing her to pick up the pieces.

Your posts are all about "How do I unf*** this? Simple answer: you can't. This will be on your permanent record. 

You can't change what you've done in the past, but you can change how you understand the past and learn from it to become a better partner, whether it's with your currently estranged wife or with someone else. 

However, for that to happen, you have to do more than apologize. You have to empathize and be willing to let her express her emotions with brutal honesty. That's going to be really hard because she's going to say things about you and about what you've done that are going to be harsh. And she's going to keep saying them. She's going to rip your ego to shreds, and you need to be able to take it like a man. 

But I think that's just part of it. The other part is really understanding what led you to behave this way. In some of your posts you write as though everything was mostly fine until you started the affair, but I don't really think that's the case. I think from your point of view something was missing or something wasn't quite right in your relationship. And if what you say is true that you're wife is already off fooling around with another man, it doesn't sound like she was a particularly healthy individual herself. 

I won't say a random impulsive act like sex outside the marriage never happens and that it can't kill a relationship, but I've been on this planet for nearly a half century now and in my experience, affairs rarely ever are the underlying cause of relationship problems. They're almost always a symptom of other problems or issues that are unresolved.

I made a rash judgement about my wife. This guy. He's someone she knows from work. I am really jealous when it comes to her. I was livid, driving by and seeing his car. What happened was, she's not been doing well. He was kind enough to stay around and make sure she was ok. To keep an eye out on the baby. He did take her to dinner. But it seems to be more of him leaning a shoulder to cry on. Not him making moves.

I appreciate so much your insight. I know no marriage is perfect. No one is perfect. I know I had a good marriage. I know we were deeply in love. I also know never in a million years would I have considered myself unfaithful. I never dreamed I would be getting divorced. I cannot pinpoint a relationship problem. We always communicated, I have a beautiful baby boy. Work is well, work. With Covid it's been hard. It's not enjoyable. If there's anything in my life to complain about, it's that.  I cannot think of anything that would cause me to cheat. 

Maybe my getting older? Having less attention. I'm grey and my wife is still youthful looking? I don't think I had a mid-life crisis. I haven't purchased a red sports car! My relationship with my wife, was mostly fine. Maybe it's me. My insecurities? My wife always yells me I'm handsome. She likes my grey hair. Now she can really take me seriously as a Doctor! I would always tell her how older patients always would seem to want to see a older Doctor and I felt pushed aside. 

I don't know. I really need to find out why? I will never remarry. I know that for sure. Because I'll always be Inlove with her. My focus is our son. I tend to leave things alone if I can't fix them. My marriage is definitely one of those things. 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

I have always had an issue with counselors.

Some people do not benefit from therapy. Especially cluster B personalities.

As you stated, "you were thinking with your penis". Your penis won't respond to a therapy either.

Your best course of action is to consult an attorney and leave your wife alone, including stalking and drive-bys

The more you do this the worse your divorce/custody situation will get.

Edited January 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[amerikajin]

6 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

I made a rash judgement about my wife. This guy. He's someone she knows from work. I am really jealous when it comes to her. I was livid, driving by and seeing his car. What happened was, she's not been doing well. He was kind enough to stay around and make sure she was ok. To keep an eye out on the baby. He did take her to dinner. But it seems to be more of him leaning a shoulder to cry on. Not him making moves.

Got it. 

Quote

I appreciate so much your insight. I know no marriage is perfect. No one is perfect. I know I had a good marriage. I know we were deeply in love. I also know never in a million years would I have considered myself unfaithful. I never dreamed I would be getting divorced. I cannot pinpoint a relationship problem. We always communicated, I have a beautiful baby boy. Work is well, work. With Covid it's been hard. It's not enjoyable. If there's anything in my life to complain about, it's that.  I cannot think of anything that would cause me to cheat. 

I think it's fear. People sometimes cheat because of anger, but it doesn't seem like you had anything to be angry about. Instead, this seems to be driven by insecurities and fears. Maybe it's a fear that your younger wife might want someone else. Maybe it's fear from dying of COVID or something else. Fear can lead to a desire to escape from life, which affairs can be for some people. 

[Lotsgoingon]

You cannot fix your wife.

She doesn't trust you to fix her pain and she shouldn't trust you that close right now.,  She has a right to her pain and has to experience her pain in order to begin the process of healing. She's a human being whose closest relationship was just shattered--and you imagine that a few conversations will change that? She was just hit by an 18-wheel truck and you think a band-aid is what she needs?

Did you watch the Julie Gottman video I linked to? Julie Gottman says betrayed partners have symptoms of serious PTSD and that's without seeing the betrayal directly with their own eyes. Your wife walked in on your guys, SAW you guys. That is the worst possible thing--she's likely having images of you two flashing intrusively in her mind.

You gotta drop this teenage thinking you're trapped in. And that's where going to a good therapist can help. No good therapist will let you think for a minute that you can do something now to fix things.

What you can do is begin to fix yourself and get to the bottom of this self-destructive affair you had. And while you're doing that, maybe ...maybe (you can't count on it) your wife will talk to you again. But frankly, you got to own your own stuff right now. She shouldn't talk to you while you're thinking as you do. 

Sounds to me like you aren't being serious and open with your counselor. I'm wondering if you even have the capacity to open up in a real way. You're stuck in a teenage mindset. 

Your thinking here is probably connected to why you had the affair in the first place.  Your understanding of relationships and pain and betrayal and the rest is about at a 14 year-old's level. Maybe lower. 

 

 

[amerikajin]

3 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

I don't know. I have always had an issue with counselors. Being a physician myself, I had to take classes in Psychology and it just all seems to appease.

I think the issue is that you're afraid of having your vulnerabilities pointed out to you. You're afraid that a counselor is going to judge you or point out things about your behavior that conflict with your self-narrative. 

I think this is maybe an example of your ego getting in the way. As a doctor you're probably used to others coming to you for help and treatment. In the ER or OR or wherever, you have a lot of power and control. You probably have some anxiety about dealing with a counselor because you're going to be the patient, the one who needs fixing. Right?

Quote

No counselor is going to tell me how to take her pain away.

Right, but that's not the reason to see a therapist. You need to understand yourself better so that you don't do this again, so that you acquire the awareness and self-regulatory skills to avoid repeating this terrible mistake. Also, this is a long shot, but if you actually make an honest go of it and take it seriously, you just might convince your wife to give you a second chance. That's a long shot though and don't for a moment think of just visiting a counselor's office as window dressing to trick your wife into coming back. Do it for the right reasons. 

[ quote removed]

Self pity has zero value. You need to take corrective action. Start by showing enough humility to accept that you need help, just the way your own patients need help when they come to you. I'm sure you've probably rolled your eyes at patients who end up in your care because they put off what were once minor problems until they became bigger ones. Well now the tables are turned. Get help.

Quote

I want to fix her, the love of my life, my best friend, the mother of my son. If I can't make her okay, I don't give a damn what happens to me.

 You cannot realistically expect to "fix" her (whatever that means) or help your son until you fix yourself first. You're the one who needs to be fixed, not her. Moreover, you have a son. Not giving a damn about what happens to you would make you a bad father, in addition to being a bad husband. Stop pitying yourself, and take corrective action.

Quote

I cannot believe that I hurt her this way.

Well, you did, so believe it. Wishing it away won't help. This is the real world and you're in it just like the rest of us. I'm guessing your wife is the one who can't believe that you hurt her this way. BTW, I meant to ask earlier, does her family know what happened? 

Quote

This is not who I am.

Yes it is. We are the sum of all our actions. We are who we are. As I've said, it doesn't define you as a whole person - I absolutely agree. But your affair will always be a part of your life story whether you like it or not.

Quote

She needed me, my wife...I'm the only family she has. She grew up alone. Hurt, betrayed and I did the very thing that she least deserved. 

I gotta admit. Reading that makes me hurt for your wife. Still, you came her looking for help and I hope you get it and some mutually satisfactory resolution.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language in quote

[Italian Muse]

6 minutes ago, amerikajin said:

Got it. 

I think it's fear. People sometimes cheat because of anger, but it doesn't seem like you had anything to be angry about. Instead, this seems to be driven by insecurities and fears. Maybe it's a fear that your younger wife might want someone else. Maybe it's fear from dying of COVID or something else. Fear can lead to a desire to escape from life, which affairs can be for some people. 

Fear is possible COVID has really done a number. My wife is not much younger than me. We were so caught up in career and work, we had our baby later. Which will be my only because I'll be 46 and she's turning 44 and if we didnt have this second baby. This year. Well I don't know. . That's why I say I have no interest in remarrying.  At my age. My focus would be my son. 

 

[Italian Muse]

14 minutes ago, amerikajin said:

I think the issue is that you're afraid of having your vulnerabilities pointed out to you. You're afraid that a counselor is going to judge you or point out things about your behavior that conflict with your self-narrative. 

I think this is maybe an example of your ego getting in the way. As a doctor you're probably used to others coming to you for help and treatment. In the ER or OR or wherever, you have a lot of power and control. You probably have some anxiety about dealing with a counselor because you're going to be the patient, the one who needs fixing. Right?

Right, but that's not the reason to see a therapist. You need to understand yourself better so that you don't do this again, so that you acquire the awareness and self-regulatory skills to avoid repeating this terrible mistake. Also, this is a long shot, but if you actually make an honest go of it and take it seriously, you just might convince your wife to give you a second chance. That's a long shot though and don't for a moment think of just visiting a counselor's office as window dressing to trick your wife into coming back. Do it for the right reasons. 

Self pity has zero value. You need to take corrective action. Start by showing enough humility to accept that you need help, just the way your own patients need help when they come to you. I'm sure you've probably rolled your eyes at patients who end up in your care because they put off what were once minor problems until they became bigger ones. Well now the tables are turned. Get help.

 You cannot realistically expect to "fix" her (whatever that means) or help your son until you fix yourself first. You're the one who needs to be fixed, not her. Moreover, you have a son. Not giving a damn about what happens to you would make you a bad father, in addition to being a bad husband. Stop pitying yourself, and take corrective action.

Well, you did, so believe it. Wishing it away won't help. This is the real world and you're in it just like the rest of us. I'm guessing your wife is the one who can't believe that you hurt her this way. BTW, I meant to ask earlier, does her family know what happened? 

Yes it is. We are the sum of all our actions. We are who we are. As I've said, it doesn't define you as a whole person - I absolutely agree. But your affair will always be a part of your life story whether you like it or not.

I gotta admit. Reading that makes me hurt for your wife. Still, you came her looking for help and I hope you get it and some mutually satisfactory resolution.

 

The fear of seeking counseling isn't what bothers me. I think becoming a ER physician makes you realize how powerless we are are. I expect good outcomes,  but it's the ones that aren't that harshly reminds you that God is in full control.  I feel no power as a Doctor.

Especially now with Covid and all his variants, I feel less in control and dumb because I have no answers. I want to know why I am the way I am. But sitting on  a sofa and exploring my issues with someone just as imperfect as I am, I dont find comfort in that. 

I know I read in a medical journal somewhere Psychologists and psych doctors are the craziest of all. I dont mean to belittle anyone. I know it does help some people.  Maybe I would fair better in some outdoor manly retreat that I have to play survival and get my frustrations out. 

I'm a very private person.  I dont feel comfortable sitting down and talking.  I'm not afraid of someone calling me out. Or pointing out where I need to improve I welcome it.  

My wife she doesn't have a family. I'm her family our son. She always depended on me. We met when we were young. Became nest friends. My family took her in as our own. We have always had each other. 

 

[ASG]

2 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

How is this stalkerish? Im her HUSBAND!? I haven't stopped loving her. I d leave her alone, I see her when I visit our son. Even then, I try not to overwhelm her. 

Driving past her house to see if there are other cars in the drive way or if she's awake is the text book definition of stalkerish. 

You being her husband is neither here nor there. She doesn't want to be married to you anymore and has made it abundantly clear. You are separated. 

You try not to overwhelm her by trying to have sex with her? How does that work? 

[amerikajin]

57 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

Especially now with Covid and all his variants, I feel less in control and dumb because I have no answers. I want to know why I am the way I am. But sitting on  a sofa and exploring my issues with someone just as imperfect as I am, I dont find comfort in that. 

I know I read in a medical journal somewhere Psychologists and psych doctors are the craziest of all. I dont mean to belittle anyone. I know it does help some people.  Maybe I would fair better in some outdoor manly retreat that I have to play survival and get my frustrations out. 

I'm a very private person.  I dont feel comfortable sitting down and talking.  I'm not afraid of someone calling me out. Or pointing out where I need to improve I welcome it.  

You're just making excuses. None of us who are reading and responding to your posts are perfect either, and yet here you are asking for our input, which makes zero sense to me. You're asking total strangers to help you find a way to work through this, and yet none of us have any training whatsoever. There are techniques that therapists use. They don't just lie you down on a couch and write prescriptions for Prozac. 

I mean at least our input is free - that's good, I guess. But it's not going to make you more self-aware or more accountable. You're going to repeat the same mistakes again if this is your choice.

Edited January 28, 2022 by amerikajin

[Lotsgoingon]

This makes no sense. None. Totally lame.

I'm a very private person.  I dont feel comfortable sitting down and talking. 

So EFFING WHAT that you're a private person?!  Everyone is private. Everybody is nervous going to a first therapy session. But therapists are amazing listeners, skilled listeners, compassionate listeners, who listen on multiple levels, not just to our content, but to the assumptions built into our way of thinking and talking.

You're in this life emergency--literally the life you apparently built and wanted--is now in tatters and you're prioritizing "privacy?! You got to be kidding me.

How about if a patient appears in the ER with a bad infection and wants you not show you the infection site because it's in a "private area"? You would respect that? No, you'd think that was the most immature, juvenile, self-destructive, petty, pathetic, kid-like response imaginable.  Raise your hand, bro--that's you right now. 

If you want to heal your marriage, then you move past your "privacy" hangup, which really in insecurity and fear.  And that's polite, what your avoidance really speaks of is cowardice, cowardice and emotional weakness.

Your wife absolutely should NOT return to someone so afraid of doing serious work to fix a mess he's made. 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Lotsgoingon

[heartwhole2]

Quote

I am seeing someone.  But counseling has never helped me. NOTHING is going to take the pain away from the woman I love. 

I will never feel ok after what I did to her. I betrayed her in the worst way, I disappointed her and let her down. I will never get over it. 

This is really defeatist. And the reason you have declared defeat with counseling before it's really begun is because your goal is selfish.

 

Quote

How is this stalkerish? Im her HUSBAND!? I haven't stopped loving her. I d leave her alone, I see her when I visit our son. Even then, I try not to overwhelm her. 

😳 It's stalkerish because you threw a giant grenade at the marriage and blew it to smithereens. You stopped acting like a husband then so you don't get to act like a husband now. Your inability to accept this comes across as aggressive, narcissistic, and entitled.

 

Quote

I deserve to feel bad, self hate whatever. I HATE myself for what I did. I want to fix her, the love of my life, my best friend, the mother of my son. If I can't make her okay, I don't give a damn what happens to me. 

I cannot believe that I hurt her this way. This is not who I am. If I can hurt her, I feel I am capable os just about anything. My whole life was revolved around making her life great. She needed me, my wife...I'm the only family she has. She grew up alone. Hurt, betrayed and I did the very thing that she least deserved. 

Does "making her OK" mean she takes you back? Or does it mean she is happy no matter what the outcome for you?

Don't you love your son? Doesn't he deserve a healthy father who models resilience and walking away from something that's not meant to be yours even when it's hard?


So to review, why do you need counseling?
To gain skills and insights which will help you be a healthy and whole person.If your self worth was provided by being a knight in shining armor (KISA) to your wife, then this is a blessing in disguise. Everything in our lives can be stripped away . . . people we love, our profession, our health. We need our self-worth to be based on knowing our inherent worth as a human. We need to treat others with respect and dignity.

Remember the book I mentioned? How to Help Your Spouse Heal After an Affair? It says you can help. It doesn't say you can heal your spouse. You can't heal your spouse, just as she can't provide your self worth. These are things we must do on our own. Your job now is to put on your oxygen mask because you are spiraling out of control. You can't be the father you need to be if you don't let down your defenses and start working on yourself. And after all of times you've violated your wife's boundaries post-affair, you really need to put any idea of reconciliation on the back burner for now. You are the one who should be saying, "We shouldn't even be thinking about reconciliation right now because I am obviously too fragile and selfish. I need to work on myself first."

[Italian Muse]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

This makes no sense. None. Totally lame.

I'm a very private person.  I dont feel comfortable sitting down and talking. 

So EFFING WHAT that you're a private person?!  Everyone is private. Everybody is nervous going to a first therapy session. But therapists are amazing listeners, skilled listeners, compassionate listeners, who listen on multiple levels, not just to our content, but to the assumptions built into our way of thinking and talking.

You're in this life emergency--literally the life you apparently built and wanted--is now in tatters and you're prioritizing "privacy?! You got to be kidding me.

How about if a patient appears in the ER with a bad infection and wants you not show you the infection site because it's in a "private area"? You would respect that? No, you'd think that was the most immature, juvenile, self-destructive, petty, pathetic, kid-like response imaginable.  Raise your hand, bro--that's you right now. 

If you want to heal your marriage, then you move past your "privacy" hangup, which really in insecurity and fear.  And that's polite, what your avoidance really speaks of is cowardice, cowardice and emotional weakness.

Your wife absolutely should NOT return to someone so afraid of doing serious work to fix a mess he's made. 

 

Your absolutely right.  I have had patients that have had embarrassing 

 

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

This makes no sense. None. Totally lame.

I'm a very private person.  I dont feel comfortable sitting down and talking. 

So EFFING WHAT that you're a private person?!  Everyone is private. Everybody is nervous going to a first therapy session. But therapists are amazing listeners, skilled listeners, compassionate listeners, who listen on multiple levels, not just to our content, but to the assumptions built into our way of thinking and talking.

You're in this life emergency--literally the life you apparently built and wanted--is now in tatters and you're prioritizing "privacy?! You got to be kidding me.

How about if a patient appears in the ER with a bad infection and wants you not show you the infection site because it's in a "private area"? You would respect that? No, you'd think that was the most immature, juvenile, self-destructive, petty, pathetic, kid-like response imaginable.  Raise your hand, bro--that's you right now. 

If you want to heal your marriage, then you move past your "privacy" hangup, which really in insecurity and fear.  And that's polite, what your avoidance really speaks of is cowardice, cowardice and emotional weakness.

Your wife absolutely should NOT return to someone so afraid of doing serious work to fix a mess he's made. 

 

I agree with you.  You are absolutely right.  I  have had patients with embarrassing injury.  Mostly men. Who reacted in a crazy manner. I see now that I need help. I have been stubborn,  mostly from my pride. I always have a need to do everything myself and not ask for help, even when I need it. It's not because I think I am better than anyone else. Far from it. I know I am a smart man because I work hard at research and I stay curious.  Anyone can accomplish what I have. With effort. So I do not perceive myself as some brilliant man who's cured cancer or anything.  I dont belittle the counselor who is far more knowledgeable than I. 

I have reached out to several counselors today. My hospital offers a  excellent mental health program.  Just from one consultation I see that I should have reached out a long time ago. 

I realize I have a issue with ageism,  my own. I'm getting older and I have a bit of a struggle with that. Like I used to be a really hot guy! Believe it or not!!!!! I'm not unattractive but I did like the way ladies would swoon over me. Its become less. Maybe that was a cause of the cheating a small portion.  She would always butter me up. I  loved it. My wife always compliments me too but its different coming from someone else. 

This other woman was a friend of my wife. But she is younger and I  ate up the flattery.i didn't take her seriously.  I  didn't consider her a woman. Not the kind I would respect.  So using her for sex. It didnt bother me. I had no respect for her. She was a friend of my wife but she always seemed to worship my wife. Saying she's what I hope to be someday.  

I let my disgusting pride and ego win. But all I got was a HUGE LOSS. I do need help. I always looked for acceptance I was never good enough growing up. I have a very unhealthy family as a child.  Even though I accomplished great things it was never enough in my family. I let this take control of my mind. I see this now. Even when my wife would say I was great. I felt a need for more acceptance.  So I failed us. I fell for a woman who falsely made me believe I was perfect. 

I do realize I have a lot of work ahead 

 

[stillafool]

When is the last time you saw your wife?  What is she saying to you when you tell her you want to make this up to her?

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, S2B said:

Are you still completely supporting your wife and child? 

Financial support for them will have to continue before during and after the divorce.

She has friends, family, doctors therapists and an attorney for support in other areas. 

 

[Jonttu]

On 1/25/2022 at 11:50 PM, Italian Muse said:

I am not making any excuses and I take all the blame. Im utterly disgusted with myself.  I hate myself for what I have done to my wife.

 My wife is an angel.  She's perfect. She deserves the best. I know I truly screwed up. My wife caught me in bed with her closest friend. The affair lasted three months. I thought I was falling for the other woman. I cannot tell you why I did what I did. I was physically attracted to this woman. She's beautiful.  She was attracted to me.  It started with her babysitting our baby boy. I'm a ER physician and my wife is working on her PhD.  She was the best to care for him. She did so in our home. 

 When my wife caught us. We were in bed in the guest room. My son was asleep in his crib. I came home early from my shift. It was a mistake.  I was feeling guilt. The lying to my wife, the betrayal. I told her that I wanted to end it and I had to tell my wife, she broke down and was saying she loved me etc. I was stupid and weak. No excuse. 

 Nedless to say, all hell broke lose and she kicked me out. Its been a month. I have been trying everything in my power to make this up to her. I cant lose her. She mentioned divorce and I have been in a bad place. I send her flowers and dinner, and I have respected her space. 

 We have spoken, I have been completely transparent with her. I told her EVERYTHING  the whole truth. She's broken. She's so thin and she's avoiding me. She let's me visit my baby but she barely speaks. My family they're disgusted and disappointed in me.  

 I found out that she had dinner with another man and I lost my s***. I confronted him. I  ended up drinking and I know I deserve whatever I get, but the jealousy is eating me up. I have sent her letters and flowers begging her to please, please dont file for a divorce.  I went to her work, and I just wanted to see her, to talk,  take her to lunch. She told the security I am stalking her. I'm no longer allowed at the building.  She leaves our son with my parents so I can visit.  She seems to hate me. 

 I  am worried about her.  She's very depressed and I just need to know what the hell I have to do, so she will speak to me. Maybe marriage counseling when she's ready. I will do anything.  I cant lose her. 

 We had a good marriage I know I will never find another woman as wonderful as her. I own all this, I am not looking for sympathy.  I  am losing my mind. I have been talking to a counselor and it's not helping me.  He seems to be steering me to try and accept that I've lost her. To let her go. But I cant. I won't. 

 I sent her a text, I want to come home. I am sick of living in a hotel. I miss my son. I miss her. Will live in the guest house. Whatever. I can't be in limbo. But I refuse to lose my wife. 

She works but is studying more than she works, so she needs my financial support. I dont want to anger her more, or pressure her. So I am trying to tread lightly here. How can I convince her to speak to me. I cant keep living without her and my son. I dont want her to keep seeing this other man. What can I do? I have been giving her time and space. I did come in heavy, demanding to see her, showing up at all times of night. I have laid back.

 I will financially support her, but I need us to work on our marriage.  I've never cheated on her before. I've always been open and honest with her.  I will do whatever it takes. 

I need some advice. I need a fresh perspective.  I am overthinking because I'm overwhelmed. Thank You in advance. 

 

So you take ALL the blame, as if you are hellbent on protecting your AP, her former best friend? So far I have not seen you hold your AP to any accountability, as if she was even more innocent than you wife.

Your AP demanded you to stop having sex with your wife. So you did exactly what she wanted, not what your wife wanted.

Your AP has told you how much she loves you. Why don't you hook up with her instead of chasing after your wife?

It takes two to tango; you and your AP. Yet you claim that it is ALL your fault.

You and your AP should hook up. Your affair was based on lies and cheating, why drag your wife into the gutter?

Your inability to hold your AP accountable tells one fact - you are not even over your AP. So why don't you hook up with her?

It goes like this; when a woman respects a man, the man loves the woman. Seems like your wife has lost all respect for you, just like you lost all respect for her by sleeping with her friend behind her back.

How are you going to get your wife to respect you again?

[Taramere]

35 minutes ago, Jonttu said:

So you take ALL the blame, as if you are hellbent on protecting your AP, her former best friend? So far I have not seen you hold your AP to any accountability, as if she was even more innocent than you wife.

 

If your perception is that the OP sees the affair partner as more innocent than his wife, it's hard to imagine you've read this thread in its entirety.

[Jonttu]

4 minutes ago, Taramere said:

If your perception is that the OP sees the affair partner as more innocent than his wife, it's hard to imagine you've read this thread in its entirety.

Trust me, I have read it in its entirety. Reason for my comment was, that nobody told him to hook up with AP. There was mutual lust.

Then it bothered me when reading how he told he hasn't slept with his wife and withheld affection out of guilt - that is what he told his wife after DDay. Then he writes later on, that AP demanded him to stop having sex with his wife.

So which one was it? Did he obey AP or did he feel guilt? In the end it was AP who got what she wanted, while his wife was left without any sexual attention or physical attraction.

OP only said bad words about AP after he found out, that she had introduced this man to his wife. Not before that. Hence the 'innocence' word.

[Taramere]

14 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

I let my disgusting pride and ego win. But all I got was a HUGE LOSS. I do need help. I always looked for acceptance I was never good enough growing up. I have a very unhealthy family as a child.  Even though I accomplished great things it was never enough in my family. I let this take control of my mind. I see this now. Even when my wife would say I was great. I felt a need for more acceptance.  So I failed us. I fell for a woman who falsely made me believe I was perfect. 

I do realize I have a lot of work ahead 

 

Life is particularly difficult for children growing up in a dysfunctional environment, because they don't have the autonomy to walk away from it - neither do they have positive experiences to use as a reference point that will help them to recognise dysfunction when they're living in it.  Often, all they can really do to survive through it is to develop ego defence mechanisms to ward off any bad feelings they're getting from the family that's supposed to offer them love and protection but doesn't, or offers it sporadically - or even in some cases offers it in ways that provide an unhealthy degree of pandering that doesn't help the child prepare for the world.

And that family - the parents - may be doing that to them because it's' all they knew growing up.  Ego defence mechanisms can be useful to protect us in a moment of trauma, but when we get in the habit of using them all the time there's a high cost to that.  It sounds as though this initial consultation has already tapped into something relevant for you.  What you're saying really makes sense. If you've been brought up to believe that nothing you do is ever good enough, then it's natural to have a constant feeling of failure. People with that abiding sensation often feel driven to accomplish spectacular things to prove to those they grew up with that they're not a failure. 

But in practice "spectacular" can easily be confused with "invoking envy in others".  Driving a flashy car, living in an imposing house, dating beautiful people and so on.  These are the things we associate with egotistical behaviour...and it's a mindset that consumerist societies do tend to celebrate and encourage.  Until of course the egotism results in the person getting into the sort of situation you've outlined here.  

Working as a doctor in ER indicates a high level of competence.  It certainly wouldn't be something that would look like failure from most people's perspectives, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if your family took your accomplishment in that area as a sign that they were right to instil a fear of failure into you from an early age.  And maybe it did serve some purpose in motivating you to prove them wrong...but the personal and emotional fall out from that style of motivating people in a very negative, anxiety provoking way can be immense.

It does sound as though the early stages of this counselling are proving helpful for you.  Making improvements does require a certain amount of stripping away of the ego defence mechanisms, but that's a delicate process - especially when those defence mechanisms are habits you developed early on to protect you from traumatic situations.  One of the difficulties of LS is that a lot of us do come from a place of knowing bits and pieces about psychology.  Knowing what terms like "projection" or "denial" etc entail...and why they can be unhelpful or even destructive in our interactions with others.  But counselling is the safest and most appropriate environment for a person in crisis to start properly looking at why they developed certain coping mechanisms at a previous point, and how those coping mechanisms are adversely affecting their behaviour and relationships now.

I hope the counselling goes well, and presumably working in the same field your wife will also be able to access a high quality service to help her through this difficult time.

[amerikajin]

19 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

Your absolutely right.  I have had patients that have had embarrassing 

 

I agree with you.  You are absolutely right.  I  have had patients with embarrassing injury.  Mostly men. Who reacted in a crazy manner. I see now that I need help. I have been stubborn,  mostly from my pride. I always have a need to do everything myself and not ask for help, even when I need it. It's not because I think I am better than anyone else. Far from it. I know I am a smart man because I work hard at research and I stay curious.  Anyone can accomplish what I have. With effort. So I do not perceive myself as some brilliant man who's cured cancer or anything.  I dont belittle the counselor who is far more knowledgeable than I. 

I have reached out to several counselors today. My hospital offers a  excellent mental health program.  Just from one consultation I see that I should have reached out a long time ago. 

I realize I have a issue with ageism,  my own. I'm getting older and I have a bit of a struggle with that. Like I used to be a really hot guy! Believe it or not!!!!! I'm not unattractive but I did like the way ladies would swoon over me. Its become less. Maybe that was a cause of the cheating a small portion.  She would always butter me up. I  loved it. My wife always compliments me too but its different coming from someone else. 

This other woman was a friend of my wife. But she is younger and I  ate up the flattery.i didn't take her seriously.  I  didn't consider her a woman. Not the kind I would respect.  So using her for sex. It didnt bother me. I had no respect for her. She was a friend of my wife but she always seemed to worship my wife. Saying she's what I hope to be someday.  

I let my disgusting pride and ego win. But all I got was a HUGE LOSS. I do need help. I always looked for acceptance I was never good enough growing up. I have a very unhealthy family as a child.  Even though I accomplished great things it was never enough in my family. I let this take control of my mind. I see this now. Even when my wife would say I was great. I felt a need for more acceptance.  So I failed us. I fell for a woman who falsely made me believe I was perfect. 

I do realize I have a lot of work ahead 

 

I'm not minimizing what you've done to your wife but you don't need to be kicked when you're already down.

In any case, I think it does take some courage to accept responsibility for such a massive error in judgment, and it takes some courage to admit that you don't have the answers and you need help. 

Find help for the right reasons. Not to get your wife back, but to help you become a more self-aware and selfless person. 

[Italian Muse]

12 hours ago, Jonttu said:

So you take ALL the blame, as if you are hellbent on protecting your AP, her former best friend? So far I have not seen you hold your AP to any accountability, as if she was even more innocent than you wife.

Your AP demanded you to stop having sex with your wife. So you did exactly what she wanted, not what your wife wanted.

Your AP has told you how much she loves you. Why don't you hook up with her instead of chasing after your wife?

It takes two to tango; you and your AP. Yet you claim that it is ALL your fault.

You and your AP should hook up. Your affair was based on lies and cheating, why drag your wife into the gutter?

Your inability to hold your AP accountable tells one fact - you are not even over your AP. So why don't you hook up with her?

It goes like this; when a woman respects a man, the man loves the woman. Seems like your wife has lost all respect for you, just like you lost all respect for her by sleeping with her friend behind her back.

How are you going to get your wife to respect you again?

I hold my EX AP 100% responsible.  I hurt my wife, I  was unfaithful to her. Her friend is just as wrong. I clearly said that I wanted to end things with her. I mentioned that she wanted me to stop having sex with my wife. She was really jealous.  I stopped having sex with my wife because I was feeling so much guilt.  I have no feelings for anyone but my wife. Lust, isn't love. I love my wife. I absolutely despise my Ex AP. I dont speak of her much here. Because I have no words. So no I have no plans to hook up with her. And I feel much hatred towards her because she intentionally introduced my wife to a man that she knew was attracted to and pursuing my wife. 

[Italian Muse]

On 1/28/2022 at 7:17 PM, S2B said:

I know many brilliant physicians who have done counseling - with a very open mind - and a willingness to set their ego aside= to have very very good results of making solid changes for a better union/relationship outcome.

so your “I’m a physician” reason doesn’t add up for me!

it’s you…and your unwillingness to be open to changing who you are at your core…that’s the problem - and what will keep the marriage from reconciling.

the attitude is ‘not sorry I did it - just sorry I got caught’ that’s also a big problem.

 

any counseling you do - will need to be a commitment from you - at least once a week for a few years! Are you willing to do that?

I'm willing to commit to however long. I'm DEFINITELY sorry I did it. I'm relieved I got caught. It's over. I lost the love of my life but, the weight off my shoulders,  the lying, the guilt. Thank God it's over. 

I saw my wife today. I was very respectful, but I told her I loved her and I let her know that I  am seeking help. I would spend every day for the rest of my life making up to her what I did.  Even if we reconcile or not. We share a son. We will share grandchildren someday,  so we will always in some manner in each others lives. 

I am willing to put in the work. I want to change.  

[Estes]

What does SHE want??

 

 

[Italian Muse]

1 hour ago, Estes said:

What does SHE want??

 

 

She wants a divorce.  

[Italian Muse]

15 hours ago, stillafool said:

When is the last time you saw your wife?  What is she saying to you when you tell her you want to make this up to her?

I saw her today.  I told her I loved her, I told her I was seeking counseling and I wanted to make this up to her, everyday for the rest of my life. She's extremely collected person,  she doesn't shout at me or call me out of my name. She will barely look at me. 

She just said she thinks its better we divorce. But she's hurting she's bot in her right state of mind. 

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, Italian Muse said:

She just said she thinks its better we divorce. But she's hurting she's bot in her right state of mind. 

No, she's not her normal self right now.  But that doesn't mean that she doesn't know what she wants