I cheated on my wife is there a chance I can ever get her back. I love her.

[Italian Muse]

23 hours ago, S2B said:

Are you still completely supporting your wife and child? How often/how long are you seeing your child?

Yes. I  support her 100% I saw my baby today. I want to see him every day, I told her today I have to see him every day. I will come to our house and I will not bother her. I will give her space and I will give her time so she can get some sleep.  Anything.  Not holding my son is tearing me apart.  

She agrees.  I spent the entire day with him today. 

[Italian Muse]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

No, she's not her normal self right now.  But that doesn't mean that she doesn't know what she wants

She thinks she wants a divorce but I dont think she should make that decision right now. 

We have a baby and I just need to save my marriage 

[basil67]

1 minute ago, Italian Muse said:

She thinks she wants a divorce but I dont think she should make that decision right now. 

We have a baby and I just need to save my marriage 

What you think about her decision is irrelevant.

You can't save the marriage if she doesn't want to.

[Italian Muse]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

What you think about her decision is irrelevant.

You can't save the marriage if she doesn't want to.

I know. She is just heartbroken and we need to really talk.  I think she believes that what she wants. I will honor her wishes.

[Italian Muse]

1 minute ago, S2B said:

But you don’t get to decide if she makes that decision right now. And if she does - you respect that decision.

how often are you seeing your counselor?

Tele Communication. I have full access.  Were meeting face to face twice a week. 

[Italian Muse]

3 minutes ago, S2B said:

But you don’t get to decide if she makes that decision right now. And if she does - you respect that decision.

how often are you seeing your counselor?

Twice a week 

[basil67]

I don't think she needs to talk.   And yes, she is quite comfortable with her decision.  However, I believe you will struggle to honor her wishes - everything you write is "I want" "I need" "I will"....there's nothing at all in your words that demonstrate an ability to honor her needs.

[Italian Muse]

14 hours ago, Jonttu said:

So you take ALL the blame, as if you are hellbent on protecting your AP, her former best friend? So far I have not seen you hold your AP to any accountability, as if she was even more innocent than you wife.

Your AP demanded you to stop having sex with your wife. So you did exactly what she wanted, not what your wife wanted.

Your AP has told you how much she loves you. Why don't you hook up with her instead of chasing after your wife?

It takes two to tango; you and your AP. Yet you claim that it is ALL your fault.

You and your AP should hook up. Your affair was based on lies and cheating, why drag your wife into the gutter?

Your inability to hold your AP accountable tells one fact - you are not even over your AP. So why don't you hook up with her?

It goes like this; when a woman respects a man, the man loves the woman. Seems like your wife has lost all respect for you, just like you lost all respect for her by sleeping with her friend behind her back.

How are you going to get your wife to respect you again?

I don't speak of the AP because I despise her. I just focus on what I did. I take responsibility for my part. I can't take responsibility for her part. 

[Italian Muse]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I don't think she needs to talk.   And yes, she is quite comfortable with her decision.  However, I believe you will struggle to honor her wishes - everything you write is "I want" "I need" "I will"....there's nothing at all in your words that demonstrate an ability to honor her needs.

I speak this way because I cant get her to speak to me. All I know is she wants a divorce. 

 She won't even look me in the eyes.  

[basil67]

It doesn’t make sense that your hopes and wishes are expressed as demands because she can’t bear to speak to you or look at you.  This is all sounding very self centred on your part.  

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, Italian Muse said:

I know. She is just heartbroken and we need to really talk.  I think she believes that what she wants. I will honor her wishes.

That's good OP (that you'll honor her wishes).

She's probably still in shock.

Give her space.

I urge you to realize the impact of your actions. This needs to be known, seen, and felt by her. Remorse over it is what will bring you to humbly broken humility. Embrace it. Face all of it and own it. That’s what a man does.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

. All I know is she wants a divorce. 

She will continue to talk to trusted friends and family as well as her physician and therapist and they will support her decision. She may have already talked to some attorneys for an initial consultation to hire the right one.

Whether or not you go to therapy won't make that much difference. It depends on how she feels, who she confides and what professional advice she is getting. It's not up to you.

 

[Taramere]

6 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

I saw her today.  I told her I loved her, I told her I was seeking counseling and I wanted to make this up to her, everyday for the rest of my life. She's extremely collected person,  she doesn't shout at me or call me out of my name. She will barely look at me. 

She just said she thinks its better we divorce. But she's hurting she's bot in her right state of mind. 

You will most probably get a letter from your wife's attorney soon, and I think you need to plan in advance how you'll manage that difficult stage in the process.  I would recommend finding an attorney with a good local reputation for collaborative work and a listening approach.  I know you've said you're not going to fight this, and that you'll give her everything she wants...but the chances are her attorney will urge you to get your own representation.  

It does of course mean that you have to have a consultation with another professional where you tell them everything that's happened, and I can totally understand what an unpalatable prospect that will feel like.  Family lawyers hear all sorts of things, however, and it's pretty much a cert are that an experienced family lawyer will have heard far worse accounts of a marital breakdown than you'll be bringing to any meeting.  It would be a good idea for you to start looking around for an attorney now - maybe researching local recommendations.  Getting an attorney doesn't need to mean that you're getting ready to fight your wife.  Using attorneys means you can communicate on important matters (interim financial support, child care arrangements) without having direct contact with eachother - which, however much you want that direct contact, is highly likely to exacerbate tensions and drama.  

Your attorney will probably give you a lot of the kind of advice you've already had on here, along the lines of "if your wife feels that the marriage has broken down irretrievably as a consequence of adultery, you're not going to successfully defend a divorce."  However, your mindset generally seems to be that you won't fight her, but you do want to try to persuade her to reconsider.  There's no reason why an attorney can't respond to her attorney's correspondence in a way that reflects that position without prejudicing you.  If you instruct them to, that is.  There is a form of counselling that is geared towards the sort of situation you and your wife are in - where one party wants to end the marriage and the other doesn't.  It's called "discernment counselling".  This is something that your attorney could ask to be considered.  From what you're saying, I think you'd be looking for an attorney who's strong enough in their field to communicate confidently with whoever your wife instructs, but who's also strong on a very collaborative approach. 

While I understand very well why everybody's giving you the message to give up on your marriage, you don't want to...and you need to instruct an attorney who's going to respect that position, and who will reflect it in their communications with the other attorney.  Obviously that doesn't mean your attorney will be capable of saving the marriage for you, and there's a strong possibility that further down the line they will give you a message along the lines of "we've tried our best, but it's clear that your wife is very set on going down the divorce route."  However you're perfectly entitled to at least try, through your attorney, to persuade your wife to rethink her position on divorce and to perhaps suggest discernment counselling a bit further down the line when things aren't quite as raw as they are right now.

[amerikajin]

8 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

She wants a divorce.  

I'm sorry to hear that. Not surprising but still sad anyway.

Respect her decision, whatever it ultimately is, and just focus on being a good parent. As you said, you two are going to be connected in some way through your child. Maybe it's possible to become friends, or at least friendly, at some point. 

[Jonttu]

12 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

I hold my EX AP 100% responsible.  I hurt my wife, I  was unfaithful to her. Her friend is just as wrong. I clearly said that I wanted to end things with her. I mentioned that she wanted me to stop having sex with my wife. She was really jealous.  I stopped having sex with my wife because I was feeling so much guilt.  I have no feelings for anyone but my wife. Lust, isn't love. I love my wife. I absolutely despise my Ex AP. I dont speak of her much here. Because I have no words. So no I have no plans to hook up with her. And I feel much hatred towards her because she intentionally introduced my wife to a man that she knew was attracted to and pursuing my wife. 

Good that you don't protect your EX AP by taking all the blame, it was afterall 50-50 - unless one of you was raped of course, which is not the case.

How do you explain having no sex with your wife, because AP demanded you not to have sex with your wife, yet you say you stopped having sex with your wife out of guilt?!? Were you afraid of your wife telling AP if you would have had sex?

This I cannot understand, how an outsider, AP, practically ruled over your marriage?! I can understand your wife, because spouses should create a united front against outside threats, yet in her eyes you brought the enemy inside her home and united with the enemy. She has nobody to protect but your son and herself - alone. That is a crushing feeling for a spouse, it was why I left my son's dad with my son - he invited his mother to our home to bash me and he sided with his mother. You are as alone as one can be.

Have  you told your wife about these things? Have you tried to form a united front with her - against AP? You utter one good word about AP and you are back to square one. Somehow you need to tell your wife, that it is WE, you and her, who run the household and that you have now painfully understood what your role as a Protector of the family is.

She won't take you back if you repeat your love to her. She wants to be 100 % certain that you will ALWAYS be on her side, in bad times and in good times. When she is weak, you are strong. When you are weak, she is strong. Because you are spouses. Imagine her always beliving that you are the Protector of her family, only to find out that the ex-protector had brought her enemy to her house and to her bed; behind her back. I can very well understand that her foundation crumbled.

How strong are you within? Weakness is the last thing she wants to see.

How deep is your love? Lust is in the mind and the body, but not in the heart.

As for AP introducing this man to your wife.... she might have had a twisted good meaning, making sure that when you and her hook up, your wife is not left alone. Twisted, but so is the story also.

I support your wife. She has a family (minus the father) to take care of. She has to be both the mother and the father. If you succeed in proving to her, that you have grown to take the 'father's' place beside her, then you just might have a chance.

Please tell us if you two succeed, because a success story is worth gold. Good luck

EDIT: Without you your wife doesn't have a shoulder to cry on. That is why this new guy has taken your place. Try to think how you could provide and ensure her that she can always lean on you and cry on your shoulder.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Jonttu

[Jonttu]

11 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

I just need to save my marriage 

This!!! You have to show utmost - inner - strenght to her, make it clear to her that you want to save your marriage, that you want to protect your family and that she can now trust you 100 %, because you have experienced losing your family and will NOT do it again.

Inner strenght, not physichal strenght. If you have that, then everything is possible.

[Estes]

16 minutes ago, Jonttu said:

You have to show utmost - inner - strenght to her, make it clear to her that you want to save your marriage, that you want to protect your family and that she can now trust you 100 %, because you have experienced losing your family and will NOT do it again.

Inner strenght, not physichal strenght. If you have that, then everything is possible.

She will never be able to trust him 100% no matter what he says and does now. The affair was a dagger though the heart of their marriage.

She clearly wants divorce, and nothing he says or does will change that. Not even a boatload of "inner strength" whatever that is.

 

[vla1120]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:21 PM, Italian Muse said:

I have reached out to several counselors today. My hospital offers a  excellent mental health program.  Just from one consultation I see that I should have reached out a long time ago. 

I am glad you are more receptive to the therapy. 

11 hours ago, Italian Muse said:

Yes. I  support her 100% I saw my baby today. I want to see him every day, I told her today I have to see him every day. I will come to our house and I will not bother her. I will give her space and I will give her time so she can get some sleep.  Anything.  Not holding my son is tearing me apart.  

She agrees.  I spent the entire day with him today. 

I'm glad you get to see your son every day. This was one reason my husband and I stayed together after his infidelity. We both had the expectation that we wanted to see our children every day, tuck them into bed, see them off to school in the morning, and so because I could see that neither of us were really willing to compromise, I decided to stay with him so that there would be no custody battles, etc. I'd like to think we would have been able to co-parent successfully, but I did not want to take the chance. Just make sure you remain respectful of your wife's boundaries. If she decides to change the arrangements, go with the flow and allow her to do what is most comfortable for her. 

When you talked about how your ex AP wanted to be like your wife, it brought back some memories. My friend (with whom my husband had the affair) was childless. She had tried everything. She was almost 10 years older than me and had decided to stop trying when she turned 45. A couple months later, I found out I was pregnant. All these years I have believed that she went after my husband because she was jealous of my pregnancy and so she tried to take something that "belonged" to me to hurt me. It sounds like your ex AP might have had the same mentality. She was jealous of your wife and decided to take something away from her. 

I wish you luck because I will always prefer to see a marriage thrive and succeed over divorce. Getting past infidelity is very difficult, but it can be done. Part of the equation is realizing the she is not the one who needs to be "fixed" and there is really nothing you can do to "fix" it for her other than be sincere about working on yourself and showing her that she can trust you and depend on you, and that will take years - if she is even receptive. If she is not receptive, then just be the best co-parent you can be and prove to her that you are still in her corner and are there for her if/when she needs you.

[Jonttu]

6 minutes ago, Estes said:

She will never be able to trust him 100% no matter what he says and does now. The affair was a dagger though the heart of their marriage.

She clearly wants divorce, and nothing he says or does will change that. Not even a boatload of "inner strength" whatever that is.

 

Everything is possible.

*Inner strenght* - guys should know about it. When a woman senses inner weakness in a guy, it is a complete turn-off.

[amerikajin]

15 minutes ago, Estes said:

She will never be able to trust him 100% no matter what he says and does now. The affair was a dagger though the heart of their marriage.

She clearly wants divorce, and nothing he says or does will change that. Not even a boatload of "inner strength" whatever that is.

What we know is that she wants a divorce right now, which is completely understandable. 

That said, it is possible for couples to move on from an affair. It's never completely the same - that much I fully agree with. And the loss of trust is a wall that's hard to get through. 

I think that whether she follows through with the divorce will depend on her assessment of how strong the marriage really was before the affair, and also, the degree of contrition and commitment to self-improvement she senses from the OP. The wildcard is her ability to deal with the humiliation and shock of seeing him in bed with the babysitter. It's hard to 'un-see' that. For some people, it's just a traumatic image that's impossible to recover from and the only 'cure' is to remove that person from their life. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Couples with affairs can build trust again. 

The thing is it's a new trust--it's not a restoration of the old. I'm talking in metaphors here, but that's the way marriage counselors talk about this issue, and I have some experience knowing people in relationships where betrayal was involved.

But the OP needs to get his act together asap ... independent of winning the wife back. 

But people can and do trust again after affairs--not always of course. But way more frequently than we typically think. 

[heartwhole2]

I believe couples can stay together past infidelity -- I've lived it -- but I don't think reassuring you of this fact is helpful because it's a two way street, and your wife is not willing to walk down that road. Your energy needs to be spent on dealing with the choices you do have -- how to work out the divorce and co-parenting amicably.

I would say that most of the time a BW with a young infant whose husband makes more than her will give reconciliation a try. The fact that your wife isn't means that she is really really sure she doesn't want the marriage. Perhaps it's the especially brutal nature of the betrayal, and the traumatic experience of walking in on you with her best friend. She's surely experiencing PTSD and if divorce is what she needs for her mental health, then for goodness sake please make that as easy on her as possible. Don't say that she's not in a right mind to make a decision . . . you don't get to give her PTSD and then use the PTSD that you gave her as an excuse to take away her autonomy in decision making. That is just incredibly twisted and condescending. This all started because of decisions you made without her knowledge or consent. When you did that, you forfeited the right to request anything of her as a wife.

You played Russian Roulette with your marriage. No one can undo that or take away the consequences of your actions. It's especially unfair that you are expecting the person who is bearing the most cost of your affair to give you a do-over. Honestly, I think you're nailing your own coffin every time you overreact or cross a boundary with her. It's just confirming her decision to end the marriage. If you can't manage your impulses and emotions and act in a selfless manner when everything is on the line, then how are you going to act in a year or two when you think the crisis is over and you can "go back to normal"?

[serial muse]

2 hours ago, Jonttu said:

Everything is possible.

*Inner strenght* - guys should know about it. When a woman senses inner weakness in a guy, it is a complete turn-off.

I think framing the issue as increasing her attraction for him somehow to save the marriage isn't going to help. The issue isn't that she isn't sufficiently attracted to him, or that he needs to somehow play mind games with her or spend even one hot minute trying to figure out how to reel her back in, or any of that sort of thing. No, no, no.

Transparency and sincerity, and less focus on his own attractiveness (inner or outer) will be his friends in this situation. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by serial muse

[Jonttu]

5 minutes ago, serial muse said:

I think framing the issue as increasing her attraction for him somehow to save the marriage isn't going to help. The issue isn't that she isn't sufficiently attracted to him, or that he needs to somehow play mind games with her or spend even one hot minute trying to figure out how to reel her back in, or any of that sort of thing. No, no, no.

Transparency and sincerity, and less focus on his own attractiveness (inner or outer) will be his friends in this situation. 

Having been in his wife's shoes myself, the only thing I craved for was for him to show strenght and protect me, just by holding me tight and promising he would never again let anyone hurt me and definitely by him or his actions.

Safety is underrated. If the cheating man shows any weakness; longing for AP, not disclosing facts, trying to belittle his actions and invalidate my feelings .... that's that for me. I could never respect, love or trust him. I would never give a second thought to what he wants or what he is feeling, because then I would have to be the strong one and comfort him - at the expense of my suffering.

That is why I never told any bad things to my mom. She would collapse and all my energy would go to comfort her.

If OP has weakness and wants his wife to comfort him, then I understand if his wife wants a divorce and why she needs a shoulder to cry on.

OP either has the inner strenght or not. It is not a question of focusing on some 'attractiveness', it is about who you are.

[Yosemite]

I think that what is probably standing out the most to your wife is the timing of the affair. You've probably known the best friend almost as long as you've known your wife. So, why didn't this affair occur while you were dating your wife or before the wedding or while she was supporting you through medical school? The best friend was just as attractive back then and was younger so the temptation should've been greater, but you didn't cheat. You waited until your wife was 1) financially dependent on you 2) had a young infant to take of and 3) was dealing with the changes in her body from pregnancy.

I don't think that the timing of your affair is a coincidence and your wife probably doesn’t either. It comes across to me like you knew that she wouldn't like it, but wouldn't have any choice but to take you back because she needs you financially and to help with her baby. It comes across as very calculating and not at all like the "mistake" that you're trying to portray it as. You thought that you had your wife underneath your thumb and you could sleep with whoever you wanted because realistically she was going to have to stay in the marriage...that's probably what's hurting your wife the most and is destroying all the trust and love that she had for you.

The one thing that you weren't expecting was for a new man to enter the picture so quickly and that's what has got you so burned up inside...because you know that if your wife sleeps with this man, you will never get over  it and consequently YOU will probably be the one to end the marriage.

You didn't start this affair to end the marriage, you thought that you could get sex from a new woman and still keep your marriage even if your wife found out. But, this new man has thrown a monkey wrench in the whole thing and now there's a much higher probability than you had calculated that the marriage will not survive.

You played with fire and now there's a very real chance that you'll get burned.