Ongoing red flags in LDR (threads merged)

[ExpatInItaly]

5 minutes ago, SingFish said:

the people I did actually meet in person but they were not like the image they had created online. 

And that is my point, actually. 

Building up a lot of this false intimacy when you haven't met the person is risky, and can lead to serious disappointment when reality hits. It's precisely why I would advise against getting too attached (digitally or otherwise) to anyone when you have not met offline and cannot meet for a long time. 

[glows]

6 hours ago, Agentra said:

Meeting in 8 months
The long wait is on me. My first vacation will be in summer, when he will be recovering from his surgery. Many times he has suggested traveling to see me for a weekend, but dropping over 1500 on a weekend trip makes no sense. He has even suggested postponing his surgery, which I gave a hard "no" to. 

You seem to be quite grounded in your previous post but he is disturbingly irresponsible at making healthy choices or sound choices for himself. Even if this were to move past your initial meets, where do you see this going? Are you going to be the one to say no or oversee/supervise a person who can’t prioritize his own health or finances? 

With a history of abusive and troubled relationships be more wary and careful. Your isolation also puts you at a disadvantage. 

[BaileyB]

7 hours ago, Agentra said:

In past relationships at the 2 month mark I've slept over with the person plenty of times and to me it feels like the same thing. 

Except, it’s not. 

This relationship hasn’t progressed the way that another relationship would progress in person. You haven’t gone on dates, he hasn’t cooked you a meal, you haven’t snuggled on the sofa and had sex - 

You have formed an attachment and you are heavily invested with a man that you have never met in real life. The fact that you are online together while you sleep speaks to a very unhealthy attachment - as you say, it’s “a comfort” for the anxiety and loneliness you are both feeling. 

Again, virtual relationships appeal to people because it creates a sense of intimacy with no risk - but that is a false sense of intimacy because you have never actually met this person. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by BaileyB

[Alpacalia]

9 hours ago, Agentra said:

I'm doing my best to keep my head out of the clouds. We haven't met, chatting and calling isn't real life, but it feels very nice, this thing. For the first time I'm not looked at in a funny way or judged/compared, it feels good. If it works out, great, if it doesn't, it's been an experience and made me quite happy. I'll continue focusing most of my energy into my work and music, but I will enjoy this as well. 

If you're going to continue to pursue this and you're worried that he is rebounding (which is very likely) just pace things down a bit.

You don't want to become so dependent on it that you start neglecting other areas of your life.

Besides, you're not there to nurse him through a heart-break.

Good-luck!

 

[poppyfields]

11 hours ago, Agentra said:

The 10h phone thing.
Most of it we are asleep.

@Agentra   if you feel happy and loved, it's not my place to judge that as they are your feelings, so I won't, BUT

Ten hours on the phone, most while you're asleep, that's a bit much.  More than a bit much actually.

You're in the Baltics (my background also BTW   ), he is in the U.S, your phone bills must be outrageous!

One would think if he could afford that, he could afford a $1,500 round trip flight to visit you for a long weekend or something.  So I hope he's legit and not some sort of scammer.

You said a lot of it is on you though, so what's going on?   Does this long distance on line/phone relationship somehow feel safe to you?  Safer than an in-person relationship?

I have heard  of people describing it that way.  For one reason or another, they actually prefer long distance, that in-person relationships make them feel anxious and uneasy.   Pressured.

No judgment, just asking.  I do find it odd that you claim this is the healthiest relationship you've ever had which would lend credence to your preferring the long distance versus local since your previous relationships were local.

Anyway, to add a bit of positivity, I have a friend who had a long distance relationship (same as you, her Eastern Europe, him U.S.) for over a year!  They met on line also.

After a year, she was able to fly to the U.S., and when he opened the door to greet her, she literally jumped into his arms, he carried her off to the bedroom and they got married a year later.  This was several years ago and they are STILL married and living in California last I heard, and have a couple of kids.

I wish you both all the best.  💛

Edited February 11, 2022 by poppyfields

[ShyViolet]

10 hours on the phone, most of it while asleep, I'm sorry but that's just a bizarre thing to do.  That's not something that an emotionally healthy person does.  This is not a relationship, and you seem to be in denial about that.  You are clinging to this fake fantasy relationship because it gives you some amount of comfort and good feelings, but they are based on something that's not real.  This is an unhealthy situation because you are pouring all your time and emotional energy into this instead of having real, normal human interactions and developing a real relationship with a person who you can actually get to know in person.

[Agentra]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:03 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

Building up a lot of this false intimacy when you haven't met the person is risky, and can lead to serious disappointment when reality hits. It's precisely why I would advise against getting too attached (digitally or otherwise) to anyone when you have not met offline and cannot meet for a long time. 

I wholeheartedly agree. The thought of waiting for close to a year to meet up and then be unhappy is almost comical. But it's somehow really hard to hold back with this. 

On 2/11/2022 at 3:55 PM, glows said:

he is disturbingly irresponsible at making healthy choices or sound choices for himself. Even if this were to move past your initial meets, where do you see this going? Are you going to be the one to say no or oversee/supervise a person who can’t prioritize his own health or finances? 

With a history of abusive and troubled relationships be more wary and careful. Your isolation also puts you at a disadvantage. 

That does worry me. He is impulsive and sometimes seems to be in full on "rose coloured glasses mode". Then again he says it's motivating to have me around, how he wants to become a better man, make money and do more. Hence he's been working on his online business, writing music, putting more effort into his university work, and so on. I don't want to necessarily blame him and focus on the couple of impulsive suggestions/decisions he's made, considering that he also has ADHD and OCD (I feel like I'm doing a disservice to him by trying to explain this, but sometimes he gets a feeling of dread that something terrible is gonna happen. Just this morning he couldn't floss because according to his OCD that'd mean I'd end up having a bad day). I don't know if I should have mentioned this before, I can be a bit ignorant towards mental health. So I'm not sure how much his ADHD and OCD affect his behaviour towards "us". Sometimes I do think that maybe it is a fantasy for him, though. That when real life hits, perhaps he will end up disappointed. I don't know. I'm not sure what is wrong but something must be, otherwise I probably wouldn't be posting here. He has assured me plenty of times, about the rebound thing, future plans. But I don't want to blindly believe people. 

On 2/11/2022 at 4:30 PM, BaileyB said:

You have formed an attachment and you are heavily invested with a man that you have never met in real life. The fact that you are online together while you sleep speaks to a very unhealthy attachment - as you say, it’s “a comfort” for the anxiety and loneliness you are both feeling. 

Again, virtual relationships appeal to people because it creates a sense of intimacy with no risk - but that is a false sense of intimacy because you have never actually met this person. 

I hear what you say, I'm trying to see how it's unhealthy but I can't. Maybe I am in denial like it was suggested. Waiting 8 months to meet without that type of "intimacy" sounds counterproductive if our goal is to make this work?

On 2/11/2022 at 8:44 PM, poppyfields said:

You said a lot of it is on you though, so what's going on?   Does this long distance on line/phone relationship somehow feel safe to you?  Safer than an in-person relationship?

I have heard  of people describing it that way.  For one reason or another, they actually prefer long distance, that in-person relationships make them feel anxious and uneasy.   Pressured.

No judgment, just asking.  I do find it odd that you claim this is the healthiest relationship you've ever had which would lend credence to your preferring the long distance versus local since your previous relationships were local.

Anyway, to add a bit of positivity, I have a friend who had a long distance relationship (same as you, her Eastern Europe, him U.S.) for over a year!  They met on line also.

After a year, she was able to fly to the U.S., and when he opened the door to greet her, she literally jumped into his arms, he carried her off to the bedroom and they got married a year later.  This was several years ago and they are STILL married and living in California last I heard, and have a couple of kids.

I wish you both all the best.  💛

Thanks a lot for this, amazingly I also know a Cali man who married a woman from my country. They had their third baby just end of 2021! 
The question you asked made me think a lot. There is something about long distance to me that is "easier". I don't really know how to explore this and I realised I have thought about it a little bit here and there, then conveniently pushed the though out of my head, but I suppose it has a lot to do with me being as anti-social as I am. People are exhausting to me, truly. And I don't know how to talk to them because I lack the confidence in myself, so I just don't care enough to try anymore. So when I got talking to this guy, it was very refreshing because the conversation just flowed. When it didn't, he was talking and I was listening. Bonding over music, art, other common interests and views was nice. I don't mean to be shallow but he's also very attractive to me, so I'm sure I was flattered as well. But now it just all feels very sweet and genuine, and it makes me happy and he seems to be happy as well. 

Oh and, Google Hangouts - it's how we have calls free of cost 😄

On 2/12/2022 at 12:58 AM, ShyViolet said:

10 hours on the phone, most of it while asleep, I'm sorry but that's just a bizarre thing to do.  That's not something that an emotionally healthy person does.  This is not a relationship, and you seem to be in denial about that.  You are clinging to this fake fantasy relationship because it gives you some amount of comfort and good feelings, but they are based on something that's not real.  This is an unhealthy situation because you are pouring all your time and emotional energy into this instead of having real, normal human interactions and developing a real relationship with a person who you can actually get to know in person.

I'm not sure. I understand where you are coming from, but for whatever reason I can't see it that way. The 10h "phone thing", if we just stopped that and called, say, 2h per day, how exactly would that be better? Yeah it would be less weird, but we'd just be taking away something that makes us feel "closer".  Maybe one day I will learn my lesson the hard way, maybe not and all will turn out happy, unicorns and rainbows and all. In my mind, some people think long-distance is a definite no-go. For others it's doable as long as you have a game plan with set dates. Then there are people who seem to think what me and this guy do is "sweet" and "how you keep long distance alive" (quoted from some people I talked to about this situationship). I try not to jinx anything by getting an idea in my head, like "It's unhealthy" or "this is how I'm supposed to do it", but I am scared sometimes it'll fail. I really don't want to be taken for a fool again. 

[Agentra]

I ended up aimlessly venting there I think. I am sorry, in my defense it's Monday and I haven't had coffee yet. 

Maybe I should mention that we are thinking about meeting end of summer instead, then also in October. It's when I have my holiday and, if everything goes perfectly, will be enough time for him to have properly healed from his surgery. It'd be 6 months instead of 8 months, which isn't that big of a deal, but it's something. He has his first appointment with his doctor in about a week, we will know more then. 

Financially speaking, he has already set aside enough for 3 trips. And once his online business gets properly set up and rolling, he will be able to work remotely and ultimately moving here wouldn't be a problem. So finances aren't a problem, I know where I stand, it's just the "what ifs" for me.

[glows]

It’s better that you organize your thoughts and think this through carefully so do not be sorry at all. 

There are what ifs in any scenario. Perhaps your focus is too much on this one man. If I were in your position I’d be dating and seeing others at the same time or this person would be at the bottom on the list of priorities. Chat for a few minutes every other day or a couple of times a week. If he appears to move to the same town or city, then meet up. The overinvolvement in each others’ lives seems like you’re both lacking in other real time support. I think it’s also preventing him from seeking treatment for his issues possibly and you aren’t spending enough time developing more of your own social circle and interests.

You acknowledged he’s good looking so there’s some physical attraction there. He’s drawn to you and you’re flattered. I don’t think that’s unusual. But the next attractive man in the coffee shop down the road may experience that same attraction to you so why are you choosing this one hours away? I think you’ve both met at a time when you’re both needing that company and this situation fills both your emotional needs but you know there’s a high chance this doesn’t work out. Enjoy the online company but don’t get too wrapped up in what ifs and set on things working. Walk away from this if it no longer works for you.

You may disagree that the 10 hours/day on a call isn’t unusual or unhealthy but I think that’s also you more than attached and unwilling already to realize that this may not work. You sense that he has mental health issues also that are out of your scope or understanding and it’s causing some conflict for you. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by glows

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Agentra said:

just this morning he couldn't floss because according to his OCD that'd mean I'd end up having a bad day

Is this not setting off warning bells to you? 

I don't mean to be insensitive to mental health, but I have to wonder if this man struggles with more than ADHD and OCD. Tread cautiously, as it sounds like there could well be other issues at play here. 

Don't let loneliness or feeling flattered steer your ship too much. The "parade of red flags" is trying to tell you something. 

[Perdu]

First of all, in the comments above there is a lot of sound advice that I don't want to repeat. Also, I think you also seem capable of detecting most of the red flags, so do take into consideration your guts/logic, not only the love hormones' rush.

Second of all, having been in several LDR, I do understand your worries. You have this too good to be true connection, that seems like a fantasy, but fills your current needs like never before. 

As far I see it, there are 2 separate issues to take into consideration:

1. The fact that you both seem to have invested so much, so quickly, without the reality check that in person interaction can offer you. You may think you know each other well enough to feel like you love each other, but the truth is that you don't. You have only seen certain sides of each other's lives;  you don't have the whole picture. When dealing with a lack of info, we tend to  fill in the gaps with desired missing pieces, so that the end result is satisfying to our expectations.

2. The fact that you live in different parts of the world. Sure enough, it's romantic and exciting, but, before thinking about relocating, are you both willing to invest in lots of traveling so that you can get to know each other better and see if the online connection is also good in real/regular life? I'm not talking about just taking vacations together,  because vacations are always exciting and that excitement can put things into the best light. I'm talking about traveling often enough so that you can spend time together also in mundane circumstances, in order to get a sense of how your life would be with that person if you'd live in the same city. I think the hardest part about starting to date long distance someone you hardly know is that you always have to keep questioning if it's worth the time and effort. Most of the people that dive into LDR don't think about it and, when they realize the required logistic strain, they quit. Hence the very low success rate.

I say that you should find your answers by thinking bout what do you want for your love life, at this moment:

-if you just want to experiment and see how it pans out without any expectations, sure, it can be a good opportunity for experience and personal growth (since you are young); as long as you are able to distance yourself and not get too involved in an early stage; try to achieve fulfillment by limiting your interaction with him and put more focus on hobbies, job, family, friends, potential dates etc;

- If you feel like you want something in terms of a more serious commitment, then take into consideration the red flags that you already sensed and have in mind that, before you two even meet, indulging yourself further into this fantasy will probably pave the pay to a future heartache.

[Agentra]

Hi,

Recently found out the guy I am seeing wrote a random breadcrumb to his ex the first month we were getting to know one another. We were not exclusive. As of now it has been almost 6 months we've been together.

My problem - well, I'm not dumb. I knew it was a breadcrumb, a way to reach out with a random question. That came up yesterday and, well, he went on denying that there was any intention behind that question. I knew I was right, I never am wrong about these things. After an evening, then night and morning of me technically ignoring him, telling him I am not interested in talking to him when he's lying to me, he manned up and told me the message was to see if she still cared. He claims he never responded to her response. Now, I cannot be sure about that. But after that message I think he did delete the social media app they used to communicate on, and nothing's happened since.

On one hand, we were not exclusive. He had gotten out of that relationships 2 months prior to when that message was sent. I have been through break ups, I know how it is. He didn't cheat on me, as we were not exclusive. I do worry about being a rebound but then again he has me convinced he prefers me over the ex any day (sorry if that sounds conceited, I don't know how to say it any other way).

What I have a problem with is that he is willing to lie to me about things like that. He was borderline gaslighting me yesterday, telling me how "he feels stabbed in the back" and what not. Then went on crying about how sorry he was. Not only is it unattractive to me but feels very disingenuous. If you were sorry, if you loved me, you wouldn't gaslight me or lie to me. 

I don't want to get hurt again. But I am not sure if a relationship is worth giving up on because I feel like I might. 

May you share your thoughts please? Thanks!

[basil67]

Unfortunately you backed him into a corner with your question.   The fact that you brought the issue up gave him the clue that you weren't happy, so he lied to try and avoid conflict.  Then you got him to admit to the lie and now you're mad and don't trust him anyway. And the really unfortunate thing is that even you admit that you weren't exclusive at the time so this whole argument need never have been had.  

I'm assuming you raised the topic because you worried that you might get hurt.   Thing is, getting hurt is always a risk.  The important thing is knowing that even if you do get hurt, that after a time of feeling bad that you'll come back and be OK.   The only way to live life without risk is to wrap yourself in cotton wool and never do anything.

I feel that you owe him an apology for putting him on the spot.  And try to be understanding that this question was going to be a no-win situation for him

Edited April 11, 2022 by basil67

[Wiseman2]

59 minutes ago, Agentra said:

  I do worry about being a rebound but then again he has me convinced he prefers me over the ex 

Sorry this happened. How long were they together? How long after they broke up did you two start dating?

How did you come across his private messages to her?

If you feel you're a rebound or he is still involved with or pining for her, cut your losses.

28 weeks dating is to enjoy each other and getting to know each other.

In this case, it's distrust, snooping, insecurities, etc. It's off to a bad start.

[Agentra]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Unfortunately you backed him into a corner with your question.   The fact that you brought the issue up gave him the clue that you weren't happy, so he lied to try and avoid conflict.  Then you got him to admit to the lie and now you're mad and don't trust him anyway. And the really unfortunate thing is that even you admit that you weren't exclusive at the time so this whole argument need never have been had.  

I'm assuming you raised the topic because you worried that you might get hurt.   Thing is, getting hurt is always a risk.  The important thing is knowing that even if you do get hurt, that after a time of feeling bad that you'll come back and be OK.   The only way to live life without risk is to wrap yourself in cotton wool and never do anything.

I feel that you owe him an apology for putting him on the spot.  And try to be understanding that this question was going to be a no-win situation for him

Thank you Basil, you raise an excellent point. I definitely decided that I was going to get an honest answer and I gave him no choice in the end. I understand he got scared. I'm a very "no bs" kind of person and if I don't like something, I remove myself from the situation in an instant. Both a good and a bad thing. 

Getting hurt is one thing, but I am terrified of being manipulated and gaslighted again. I do not want to be treated like a fool again. I was left traumatised after my last relationship. 

I can sympathise with where he was coming from, but I also feel like I'm not being unreasonable. A day or two after texting his ex and getting a response that was, I believe, rather cold, he told me he loved me. He claims at that point he "hated her" and wanted to know "she was hurting for hurting him". I understand the ego aspect of it. But I don't want a past rejection to be the reason he told me he loved me. What if she had been nicer to him? Would he have gone behind my back then? No idea. 

And the fact that he was okay with lying to me makes me feel uneasy. 

23 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. How long were they together? How long after they broke up did you two start dating?

How did you come across his private messages to her?

If you feel you're a rebound or he is still involved with or pining for her, cut your losses.

28 weeks dating is to enjoy each other and getting to know each other.

In this case, it's distrust, snooping, insecurities, etc. It's off to a bad start.

They were together for 7 months. We started officially dating close to 4 months after that relationship. But by the time that message was sent we were already very-very close.

He mentioned the messages to me a couple times, I never snooped, not my thing. I always felt weird about it but didn't know what to say. He went more in-depth about these messages yesterday and I started seeing the dishonesty about his intentions through what he was saying. 

I don't think he is pining for her. I think the reason for that message was ego. But if you read my response to Basil, the fact that he was so willing to lie to me and then tell me he "loved me" just a day or two after that exchange scares me. Again, what if she had been "warmer" towards him? 

It's the same actions my ex took. And I got royally screwed over with him. 

[Agentra]

God damn, am I being unreasonable? I really have no idea. All I know is I feel hurt and confused right now.

[basil67]

43 minutes ago, Agentra said:

But I don't want a past rejection to be the reason he told me he loved me. What if she had been nicer to him? Would he have gone behind my back then? No idea. 

What's going on in your relationship now which made you bring up this history?   Are you feeling unloved or unappreciated?   I'm wondering if raising this issue is a symptom of feeling legitimately uneasy.  

[Agentra]

11 minutes ago, basil67 said:

What's going on in your relationship now which made you bring up this history?   Are you feeling unloved or unappreciated?   I'm wondering if raising this issue is a symptom of feeling legitimately uneasy.  

Honestly no, it's been great! He makes me very happy. We were just talking about random things, about a mutual friend who'd been messaging us both, then he randomly mentioned the breadcrumb text. I caught onto it, is the thing. He said how it was "advice" he was after, but I knew he was lying. I really can't tolerate lying. So I called him out on it. Then his reaction was to dig the hole deeper.

Is it one of those "white lies" and I'm being too sensitive about it?

[ExpatInItaly]

Is this the guy who lives on another continent that you have never met in person?

[Agentra]

12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Is this the guy who lives on another continent that you have never met in person?

Yep. We would have met in a month. But now I'm not sure. I don't know what to do. I've been really happy so far. 

[ExpatInItaly]

2 minutes ago, Agentra said:

Yep. We would have met in a month. But now I'm not sure. I don't know what to do. I've been really happy so far. 

Someone who lives this far away can easily make you think things are wonderful, because it's so easy to hide the truth. 

The "parade of red flags" you mentioned in your other thread? This here is another one. 

[Agentra]

2 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Someone who lives this far away can easily make you think things are wonderful, because it's so easy to hide the truth. 

The "parade of red flags" you mentioned in your other thread? This here is another one. 

I don't know what to do, what to say or what to ask. I wish I had one big no-no staring at me in the face, not a bunch of questionable things that make me feel scared. 

I've been really happy, we'd made up a plan to close the distance, we had the money, all of it. 

[introverted1]

3 hours ago, Agentra said:

He claims at that point he "hated her" and wanted to know "she was hurting for hurting him".

This is way too fraught, imo.  The opposite of love is indifference, not hate.  If he "hates" her, this tells me emotions are still running high. And wanting to know that your ex is "hurting for" you is another sign that things are not over.  I don't think he's over her, not by a long shot.

42 minutes ago, Agentra said:

Yep. We would have met in a month. But now I'm not sure. I don't know what to do. I've been really happy so far. 

So you haven't even met this guy?  Sorry, but I am firmly in the camp that you can't really know someone or have a relationship with them when you haven't even met.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by introverted1

[notbroken]

If you've never even met him, then move on with someone local.  Hard to have a real relationship with someone you can't see regularly. 

 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Agentra said:

I wish I had one big no-no staring at me in the face

Never having met and being worlds away are pretty "big no-nos".

Since this meeting seems like it won't materialize, step away from this and date local available men.