Really bad decision

[Lewis321]

So I fully expect to get some hate for this post but this is such a great community that offers great advice and support I am willing to take it. 

So I have 2 daughters with the same mother they are 10 and 8, the 8 year old has struggled with behaviour and emotional outburts since she was 3.5.

We have been through all avenues of support and she is currently awaiting a potential diagnosis of ADHD. 

Since she was born I have been her primary caregiver while mum worked full time, due to this, our daughters disruptive and violent behaviour and mum having in my view on reflection strong narssasistic traits we argued alot and drifted apart as alot of my time was taken looking after our 2 daughters and trying to manage the youngests behaviour. 

In March 2020 mum had a work affair and very abruptly left the family home and had no contact whatsoever with either of our daughters for a year and a half while I was left to look after them and pick up the pieces through covid. 

During this time the youngests emotional wellbeing gradually got more challenging and she kept asking me questions about mum that I simply couldn't answer as I was blocked on everything.

By coincidence as her behaviour was at its peak mum made contact wanting to see the girls, our oldest wants nothing to do with her which mum accepts. 

I decided it made sense to allow the youngest to spend some time with mum a few evenings per week to try and help her emotional wellbeing. 

This helped somewhat but she was still showing aggressive and violent outbursts and was targeting and attacking myself and her sister to the point I had to remove the oldest from the family home for her safety. After this the youngest completely trashed the house, food everywhere, breaking things, urinating and defecting on the floor. 

My head was a mess and I couldn't take it anymore so I told mum that she needs to be with her. Mum accepted and she moved to hers last October and we agreed both myself and the eldest could see her a few times a week. 

Immediately after she moved mum  stated that the youngest wants nothing to do with both myself and her sibling I we have been stopped from having any form of contact since. 

I have now initiated court proceedings and have just completed a section 7 report and am awaiting what will hopefully be the final hearing in March. 

I feel so incredibly stupid for letting her go knowing how much mum hurt them both when she left and what type of nasty person she is. I knew this was a possibility but I was far from thinking straight. 

I am so worried what the court will decide because the girls are separated and the courts surely will want them both living together. I'm afraid I will lose the eldest to her also. 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated if anybody has any thoughts or has been in a similar situation. 

Thanks for reading. 

 

[SingFish]

7 hours ago, Lewis321 said:

the courts surely will want them both living together.

Why?

If the oldest doesn't have contact with mother maybe this separation is best all round for now. The younger child needs the one on one. 

Hope everything is soon resolved for you all.

[Lewis321]

6 hours ago, SingFish said:

Why?

If the oldest doesn't have contact with mother maybe this separation is best all round for now. The younger child needs the one on one. 

Hope everything is soon resolved for you all.

Well all this is new to me never been through courts before. 

As far as I've read online it is very unusual for courts to order siblings to live separately. 

So I'm anxious as to weather they will order the youngest to move back with us or make the oldest move to mums. 

 

[SingFish]

2 hours ago, Lewis321 said:

Well all this is new to me never been through courts before. 

As far as I've read online it is very unusual for courts to order siblings to live separately. 

So I'm anxious as to weather they will order the youngest to move back with us or make the oldest move to mums. 

 

Do you have legal representation/social worker to advise you?

It sounds like your younger daughter needs one on one attention and is potentially a risk to the older in this case though. I think each case is supposed to be taken on its merit and your oldest is capable of expressing her wishes too. She doesn't even see her mom.

It must be very stressful the whole situation for you. 

[Wiseman2]

It's ok to feel terrible about your estranged wife/GF, however negative feelings and sentiments about her don't belong in parenting.

[ ] 

Keep all the ex hate away from your children. You're entitled to your feelings but a divisive attitude may make matters worse.

Edited February 13, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
doesn't address topic

[Lewis321]

55 minutes ago, SingFish said:

Do you have legal representation/social worker to advise you?

It sounds like your younger daughter needs one on one attention and is potentially a risk to the older in this case though. I think each case is supposed to be taken on its merit and your oldest is capable of expressing her wishes too. She doesn't even see her mom.

It must be very stressful the whole situation for you. 

So after doing some research I decided to represent myself. As far as I understand in family Court they mainly focus on the children wishes so legal representation wouldn't be much help. 

Yes you are right the youngest mainly needs one to one which is partly why I suggested that she move with mum. I just can't stop worrying that I might lose the eldest too. 

Social workers are the ones who are carrying out the section 7 report. 

I am so stressed. 

[Lewis321]

On 2/13/2022 at 12:14 AM, Wiseman2 said:

It's ok to feel terrible about your estranged wife/GF, however negative feelings and sentiments about her don't belong in parenting.

[ ] 

Keep all the ex hate away from your children. You're entitled to your feelings but a divisive attitude may make matters worse.

Just to be clear I don't trash talk of show any hate towards mum in front of the children. I am just expressing my feelings here. However I worry that mum is brainwashing the youngest and poisoning her against me while she has her in her care. 

Only recently she has been involved with Neurodevelopmental team, before this it was behaviour support, CAHMS etc. Plus I lost almost a year due to covid. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
edit quote

[SingFish]

49 minutes ago, Lewis321 said:

I am so stressed. 

I can imagine. Sending you love and encouragement. You can only do your best in this difficult situation. 

[Wiseman2]

54 minutes ago, Lewis321 said:

Social workers are the ones who are carrying out the section 7 report. 

Is there a custody or child support dispute? Are there allegations of abuse/neglect? Why is this being ordered?

Stop stressing and bring your child to the appropriate doctors for a thorough evaluation. 

You're too  concerned with the parent "poisoning against" when your child's health needs to be addressed.

Ultimately you are both the parents and will both have to co-parent in a nontoxic manner for the best interest of the children.

[Lewis321]

8 minutes ago, SingFish said:

I can imagine. Sending you love and encouragement. You can only do your best in this difficult situation. 

Thanks, I am so worried that the youngest will want nothing to do with me. 

[Lewis321]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is there a custody or child support dispute? Are there allegations of abuse/neglect? Why is this being ordered?

Stop stressing and bring your child to the appropriate doctors for a thorough evaluation. 

You're too  concerned with the parent "poisoning against" when your child's health needs to be addressed.

Ultimately you are both the parents and will both have to co-parent in a nontoxic manner for the best interest of the children.

Yes we are in a custody dispute, mum has accused me of certain things regarding our youngest which I have had to prove otherwise. 

Like I said I iniated proceedings as mum won't allow us to have contact with the youngest. I would have no problem working with mum and of course want to get our daughter the right help but I can't do that is she is keeping her away from me so I'm naturally going to be worried about what else she is capable of. 

Part of my reason for initiating proceedings is because she is not willing to Coparent in a non toxic manner. 

Section 7 report was ordered by judge to decide where the kids live, how they see the other parent and sibling. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Lewis321

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, Lewis321 said:

Yes we are in a custody dispute, mum has accused me of certain things regarding our youngest which I have had to prove otherwise. 

Like I said I iniated proceedings as mum won't allow us to have contact with the youngest.

Bring the child in to the appropriate doctors for an evaluation. A doctor's testimony is in order here. Stop forcing the mother. It works against you. 

[Haydn]

3 minutes ago, Lewis321 said:

Yes we are in a custody dispute, mum has accused me of certain things regarding our youngest which I have had to prove otherwise. 

Like I said I iniated proceedings as mum won't allow us to have contact with the youngest. I would have no problem working with mum and of course want to get our daughter the right help but I can't do that is she is keeping her away from me so I'm naturally going to be worried about what else she is capable of. 

Part of my reason for initiating proceedings is because she is not willing to Coparent in a non toxic manner. 

Just a few things. She also has to prove you did the things she is accusing you of.

You will also have to prove that she parenting in a toxic manner as you mentioned.

This is why i would get a lawyer. 

Most courts in the UK (Not sure where you are) will try to give 50/50 joint custody as they see it beneficial to the children,  but maybe not in your case.

I would advise you to stay completely calm and polite and truthful when in court.

Difficult and i can see what a horrible situation you are in. 

I wish you the best outcome for all involved.

[Lewis321]

6 minutes ago, Haydn said:

Just a few things. She also has to prove you did the things she is accusing you of.

You will also have to prove that she parenting in a toxic manner as you mentioned.

This is why i would get a lawyer. 

Most courts in the UK (Not sure where you are) will try to give 50/50 joint custody as they see it beneficial to the children,  but maybe not in your case.

I would advise you to stay completely calm and polite and truthful when in court.

Difficult and i can see what a horrible situation you are in. 

I wish you the best outcome for all involved.

Thankyou. She can't prove the things she is accusing me of as I've already proved otherwise. But I can't prove she is alienating our daughter from us either. Yes I'm in the UK, what makes you say not in my situation? 

So far I have remained completely calm and child focused whereas on the previous hearing she was getting a little rattled and slightly more focused on accusing me of things. 

[SingFish]

23 minutes ago, Lewis321 said:

Thanks, I am so worried that the youngest will want nothing to do with me. 

Well that's hard but these things tend to unfold over time so be patient. It's all what is in the best interests of your children and you can request supervised visitation with the youngest whatever happens I would imagine. Let her mother see if she can help her, she has some serious behavioral problems, while you can focus on the older child for now?

 

[Haydn]

3 minutes ago, Lewis321 said:

Thankyou. She can't prove the things she is accusing me of as I've already proved otherwise. But I can't prove she is alienating our daughter from us either. Yes I'm in the UK, what makes you say not in my situation? 

So far I have remained completely calm and child focused whereas on the previous hearing she was getting a little rattled and slightly more focused on accusing me of things. 

Just that things are not going to be so clear cut in regards to the bad relationship with Mum and there lies trouble. (Sadly for all involved)

You have probably seen this so please ignore if you have or have gone to them.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/making-agreements-about-your-children/

But they do have vast experience. 

I think regrettable as it is, even if you get what you want, this will go on for longer than anyone would like.

Best of luck.

[Wiseman2]

On 2/13/2022 at 1:50 AM, Lewis321 said:

 I can't prove she is alienating our daughter from us either.

No you can't "prove" this. Nor should you pursue this war. In fact that neither of you has pursued appropriate medical evaluations in 4.5 Years is rather alarming.

[ ] 

You're trying to "prove" something that is an assumption and completely intangible.

A child this disturbed needs attention and you admittedly Asked the mother to take her because you couldn't handle it and didn't seek the appropriate medical care .

Stop the hating and war with her mother. Focus on getting appropriate medical care for this child.. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic

[Lewis321]

5 minutes ago, Haydn said:

Just that things are not going to be so clear cut in regards to the bad relationship with Mum and there lies trouble. (Sadly for all involved)

You have probably seen this so please ignore if you have or have gone to them.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/making-agreements-about-your-children/

But they do have vast experience. 

I think regrettable as it is, even if you get what you want, this will go on for longer than anyone would like.

Best of luck.

Thankyou. 

[Lewis321]

39 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Bring the child in to the appropriate doctors for an evaluation. A doctor's testimony is in order here. Stop forcing the mother. It works against you. 

I don't understand what you mean by stop forcing the mother? 

[Lewis321]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:04 AM, Wiseman2 said:

No you can't "prove" this. Nor should you pursue this war. In fact that neither of you has pursued appropriate medical evaluations in 4.5 Years is rather alarming.

[ ] 

You're trying to "prove" something that is an assumption and completely intangible.

A child this disturbed needs attention and you admittedly Asked the mother to take her because you couldn't handle it and didn't seek the appropriate medical care .

Stop the hating and war with her mother. Focus on getting appropriate medical care for this child.. 

Not setting out to prove things against mum just trying to explain my situation. Believe me I have spent years chasing the appropriate medical help, took her to doctors twice they brushed it off. Endless waiting lists etc. As I've already said I am unable to help her now as I cannot get contact with her 

[ ] 

Edited February 13, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic

[Wiseman2]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:17 AM, Lewis321 said:

 I am unable to help her now as I cannot get contact with her 

 Are you barred from seeing her for some reason? Why did the courts order that? Do not panic. Focus on the other child and allow the troubled child to remain with the mother until some  more appropriate medical help is available.

[ ] 

At any rate, stop the court battles. it's not helping. Now that you've been cleared of abuse/neglect, let it rest.

Edited February 13, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic

[Lewis321]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:24 AM, Wiseman2 said:

 Are you barred from seeing her for some reason? Why did the courts order that? Do not panic. Focus on the other child and allow the troubled child to remain with the mother until some  more appropriate medical help is available.

[ ] 

At any rate, stop the court battles. it's not helping. Now that you've been cleared of abuse/neglect, let it rest.

Sorry Wiseman2 maybe I'm not being very clear with what I'm saying. 

I'm not barred from seeing her, it's just a case of since she's been living with mum mum won't allow any contact, hence my court claim to try and get some contact back. So far the courts haven't ordered anything other than for a section 7 report to be carried out to assist the court in making a final order with regards to access and living arrangements. I am focu9on the other child and letting things be with the other child and mum. I'm not interfering. All I can say from my experience is the GP and heath service have been so inconsistant and pushing me from pillar to post I have been trying for years. Unfortunately I have to go through court otherwise I'd never see her again but I'm not setting out to battle with mum. I just want to see our daughter and for the sisters to be able to see each other. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Lewis321 said:

I'm not barred from seeing her, it's just a case of since she's been living with mum mum won't allow any contact

Why isn't there a court ordered custody/visitation agreement?

Edited February 12, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Lewis321]

17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why isn't there a court ordered custody/visitation agreement?

That is what is in the process of being judged. Until then there is no court ordered agreement hence my claim and why I can't see her. 

[Stret]

10 hours ago, Lewis321 said:

Well all this is new to me never been through courts before. 

As far as I've read online it is very unusual for courts to order siblings to live separately. 

So I'm anxious as to weather they will order the youngest to move back with us or make the oldest move to mums. 

 

Under the circumstances where it is not safe for the siblings to live together, it is unlikely that the Court would order for them to have to live together. Get evidence of the younger one trying to harm the older child - a text to a friend or family member about it at least...