How to develop indifference towards my husband

[RecentlyMarried]

@AnnamaI am very sorry that you go through the same. My therapist (who is trying hard to keep me from asking him to separate) says that many women feel the way we do; perhaps cultural reasons, we end up being taken from granted, who knows?! My husband also tells me that I am difficult, and certainly I have difficult sides to me; however, the facts are very straightforward. He may love me (I hope your ex does too), but he doesn't invest in the relationship - he uses the relationship to pursue things that he values (his career, his gigging). He leaves not just me, but also his child alone without him a lot of the times, and I am sure he loves his child. When I was raising my child by myself, and he was smaller, I always worked two jobs, one full time and one part time, but I'd refuse to take on work after 6 pm, for example, or on weekends. I'd strike a balance - of course that he doesn't do things the way I would do is normal and my therapist reminds me of this. However, time matters to me; time together. We continue to be married but, in my opinion, we don't have a relationship. Odd but that's how it is. He does some things for me; I was away on the weekend and he came around to walk my dog, drive my son to where he had to go, 1 hour away, on the Sunday, picked me up from the airport...he brought me a pot of flower last week, he asked me to go for a bike ride on the weekend, and he is still convinced that we will go on our honeymoon in a few weeks' time. But I can't see how this works; this isn't a relationship for me, and if it is, it is one that I find dysfunctional. In a sense, I am happy that this has happened. I realise that I did take on things that I didn't want to take on; a lesson for me. We are 49 and 48 years old. X

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, RecentlyMarried said:

My therapist (who is trying hard to keep me from asking him to separate) We are 49 and 48 years old.

See a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Ask for a referral to an ethical, qualified licensed therapist.

A therapist should be telling you what is in your husband's best interest or be ant-separation/divorce. Neutral and supportive is what therapy is intended to be.

Talk to an attorney about annulment/divorce and your options. You do not have to be an unpaid nanny. 

He needs to hire someone if he's out "gigging" all the time. You can leave at any time.

You also do not have to "ask him" to separate. You talk to an attorney and file for divorce. 

Reconsider going to a therapist who expects you to stick out an unhappy marriage "for cultural reasons" and who implies you need his permission to contact an attorney to decide whether to divorce.

[RecentlyMarried]

PS. just want to share something else. As I was away the weekend, I met a few people through work and over dinner I asked those who were married the secret of a happy marriage. One of these people, probably the smartest, asked me why I was unhappy in my marriage. He said a number of interesting things. One, I partly agree with, is that anger isn't just anger, but is always fear. So what were you scared of, when you got angry that he booked his gigs, forgot the birthday? The second thing he asked is why I took on things that I really didn't want to take on. I had made clear that I was convalescent; that his daughter was left without food and alone didn't mean I had to get out of bed and do things for her. It was his problem and for him to deal with (touche' really!). I think I really need to learn from this one. I said to him: 'you know, sometimes I do something small and I am happy to do it, but then I don't realise that it makes me tired, or that I am taking on too much...it happens with my son, I accumulate and then break down...it is a little bit like when you are working and there is some background noise, and you block it off, then all of a sudden you hear it, and you hear suddenly how much it has impacted on you, and then you have a meltdown'. And he asked me: 'if you don't know how you feel, how can you expect your son or husband to act upon it?'...Difficult one for me!! 

Then he said that in the Bible he found interesting that there are two sentences: one is 'love your brother as yourself' (something like that); but then in the parable of the rabbi, when the rabbi with the limp goes to Jesus and asks how to live a good life, Jesus apparently answered 'don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to yourself'. He said, why wasn't the first one enough? In my interpretation, he said, it was because the rabbi didn't love himself and Jesus knew. So he gave more practical concrete advice about actions, because he couldn't call him on self love. (that really hit me  ) And then we talked about unconditional love - he said, why can't you love your husband just as he is, late, unorganised, forgetful? You would love your child the same, wouldn't you? I said no. I said I really don't believe in this story of unconditional love, even with my own child. There you go maybe that's my learning curve here...again he asked me isn't it possible that you don't unconditionally love yourself? 

I am not saying I will stay with my husband; the relationship is inexistent...just share...I don't know, as a part of this journey xx

[RecentlyMarried]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

See a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Ask for a referral to an ethical, qualified licensed therapist.

A therapist should be telling you what is in your husband's best interest or be ant-separation/divorce. Neutral and supportive is what therapy is intended to be.

Talk to an attorney about annulment/divorce and your options. You do not have to be an unpaid nanny. 

He needs to hire someone if he's out "gigging" all the time. You can leave at any time.

You also do not have to "ask him" to separate. You talk to an attorney and file for divorce. 

Reconsider going to a therapist who expects you to stick out an unhappy marriage "for cultural reasons" and who implies you need his permission to contact an attorney to decide whether to divorce.

Hold on, I asked my husband to move out and he has moved out. He lives in his flat and I don't do any child care any more. I can't take on the legal papers now, psychologically. I want to wait for my biopsy and take it from there. However, my husband isn't practically burdening me any more in any way. As I said, if anything, he has helped out when I haven't been around. Walked the dog, taken care of my son. I think this marriage needs to end, but I am in my own home and I am doing nothing either for him or his child. My therapist is licensed; I don't have to agree with everything she says, but I do agree that I should make irreversible choices not just based on my anger, but once I am completely confident that I will not change my mind or regret it. Like many here, she has advised couple counselling, and my husband has also been asking for it. I haven't wanted to do it. Anyway, no worries on me taking on other things, because he moved back to his flat now x 

[stillafool]

19 minutes ago, RecentlyMarried said:

I want to wait for my biopsy and take it from there.

When will your biopsy results be back?  Wish you the best.

[stillafool]

53 minutes ago, RecentlyMarried said:

My therapist (who is trying hard to keep me from asking him to separate) says that many women feel the way we do;

I don't think I've ever heard of a therapist doing this.  Most stay neutral and aide you through the process.

[RecentlyMarried]

@stillafoolIt depends really; this has been misread in this chat as if my therapist was telling me to accept this as a fact of life. This was absolutely not the case. It was rather in the context of talking about how many women suffer the same. Anyway, here the issue isn't my therapist really. The issue is my husband and how he wants the benefits of a married life without the responsibilities that come with it (something that probably he doesn't even do intentionally, which perhaps is even more worrying).x 

[stillafool]

22 minutes ago, RecentlyMarried said:

Anyway, here the issue isn't my therapist really. The issue is my husband and how he wants the benefits of a married life without the responsibilities that come with it (something that probably he doesn't even do intentionally, which perhaps is even more worrying).x 

I'm aware the issue isn't about your therapist but about your neglectful husband who treats you as a servant.  From what you've told us your therapist seems to be telling you to just put up with it as many women do.  Very odd advice from a therapist since most stay neutral and aide you through your decision.  Did she advise you on how to develop indifference towards your husband?

[stillafool]

33 minutes ago, RecentlyMarried said:

The issue is my husband and how he wants the benefits of a married life without the responsibilities that come with it (something that probably he doesn't even do intentionally, which perhaps is even more worrying).x 

Was he attentive to you and your child before you married him?  What does he say when you've told him you want a divorce?

[RecentlyMarried]

40 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Was he attentive to you and your child before you married him?  What does he say when you've told him you want a divorce?

He has always been messy but yes, more attentive. Things started going very wrong when his child made a sudden decision to come back to England. He had taken another job, with longer hours, and his child had no school here in England, so for a few weeks there was a difficulty in how this could be handled. This being over the Christmas holidays, it was extremely difficult to find a school which would give us an answer. Meanwhile, 14 December, 3 days before his child arrived, I was diagnosed with a cancer and told to go surgery in 3 weeks time. So we had two blows one after another. When I told him I wanted to separate he had a massive crisis. He moved out as I asked him to, no problem on that front, and from that moment he has not asked me for anything for him or his child, which is good. He said I over react (because I don't know if I mentioned it, but I had a very deep crisis too in all this, and at some point felt that I didn't want to live any more). I said I might over or under react, but I react to something, and that thing exists. Then he said he wanted our marriage to work and proposed couple counselling; I said that in my opinion this was pointless. He insisted. Eventually I said OK, but he hasn't got round to find a therapist. Lately I asked him if he wanted me to look for one and he said that he'd appreciate it, but I haven't done anything about it, because I feel very low about the whole thing. 

[glows]

1 hour ago, RecentlyMarried said:

He has always been messy but yes, more attentive. Things started going very wrong when his child made a sudden decision to come back to England. He had taken another job, with longer hours, and his child had no school here in England, so for a few weeks there was a difficulty in how this could be handled. This being over the Christmas holidays, it was extremely difficult to find a school which would give us an answer. Meanwhile, 14 December, 3 days before his child arrived, I was diagnosed with a cancer and told to go surgery in 3 weeks time. So we had two blows one after another. When I told him I wanted to separate he had a massive crisis. He moved out as I asked him to, no problem on that front, and from that moment he has not asked me for anything for him or his child, which is good. He said I over react (because I don't know if I mentioned it, but I had a very deep crisis too in all this, and at some point felt that I didn't want to live any more). I said I might over or under react, but I react to something, and that thing exists. Then he said he wanted our marriage to work and proposed couple counselling; I said that in my opinion this was pointless. He insisted. Eventually I said OK, but he hasn't got round to find a therapist. Lately I asked him if he wanted me to look for one and he said that he'd appreciate it, but I haven't done anything about it, because I feel very low about the whole thing. 

Marriage counselling was his idea and it's not for everyone. Sometimes there is too much damage done. Do you think you would change your mind about marriage counselling in the future?

Edited March 17, 2022 by glows

[Acacia98]

3 hours ago, RecentlyMarried said:

Then he said he wanted our marriage to work and proposed couple counselling; I said that in my opinion this was pointless. He insisted. Eventually I said OK, but he hasn't got round to find a therapist. Lately I asked him if he wanted me to look for one and he said that he'd appreciate it, but I haven't done anything about it, because I feel very low about the whole thing. 

Perhaps I am being petty, but I think he should be the one to look for the therapist. He should take ownership of the idea and invest time and energy into it. To echo what others have said, he has been taking a lazy approach to your relationship, and this seems to be a continuation of the same.

If you end up being the one who makes the effort to make it happen, you will probably soon resent him for saddling you with a responsibility and extra work that you never wanted in the first place.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Acacia98

[Annama]

Thank you for your kind words.

At least your husband is trying and perhaps this will shake him a bit. I think it would be worth it to give it a go. This way, you will feel that you did what you could and won't ask yourself ...what if...

He is trying...small steps.

My partner saw me leaving with bags and helped me to pack the bags in a taxi. We have not exchanged a word with each other since. Sad. Would love to see him try slightly harder than a few text messages before I actually left.

You may feel relief now but it will hurt later if you will not try again. Human nature is not tricky...we do tend to take people who love us for granted 

I never did with my ex. But he did. He knew I loved him deeply. 

Dont doubt in what he says...maybe the honeymoon trip will actually happen. Have a bit of faith.

[dramafreezone]

6 hours ago, RecentlyMarried said:

@stillafoolIt depends really; this has been misread in this chat as if my therapist was telling me to accept this as a fact of life. This was absolutely not the case. It was rather in the context of talking about how many women suffer the same. Anyway, here the issue isn't my therapist really. The issue is my husband and how he wants the benefits of a married life without the responsibilities that come with it (something that probably he doesn't even do intentionally, which perhaps is even more worrying).x 

It sounds as if your therapist may be trying to offer a balanced vantage point.  I think the prospect of divorce is freely suggested by people far away from the situation with no investment.  The truth is divorces can be extraordinarily painful for everyone involved and not always worth it.  Sometimes it is unavoidable but I think the therapist is simply advising you to consider all avenues towards resolution/compromise, with divorce being an option of last resort instead of first choice (as it is too much these days).

I think counseling was a very reasonable suggestion from him, so curious that you would not even consider it.  What are the reasons why you think counseling would be pointless?  What harm would come of it?

Edited March 17, 2022 by dramafreezone

[RecentlyMarried]

Dear all just to let you know that my biopsy came back and it says that there are no residual abnormal cells. So now I have spoken to my husband and said that I would like a break and explained why.

He said OK I hear everything you say and let me think about it. Then he said he realised how wrongly he'd treated me and that he'll try to do better and said to please not cancel the honey moon. He talked in a balanced way and put his point of view across. I am obviously pleased he does recognise the treatment but not pleased he pushed the boundary again...when I said I needed him he pushed to do his things when I say I need space I find him on the doorstep.

Now I will let this sit. I decided to go away with friends on the weekend and will do the same next week. Try just to take care of myself now

 

Thank you all xxxxx

[Annama]

What a wonderful news ! Really happy to hear that! You must feel such a massive relief! 

Really happy for you. 

How do you feel about your husband these days? Why did you proceed with the break if he started to work on things?

[stillafool]

9 hours ago, RecentlyMarried said:

Dear all just to let you know that my biopsy came back and it says that there are no residual abnormal cells. So now I have spoken to my husband and said that I would like a break and explained why.

So happy to hear that your biopsy came back clear as I know that's a huge relief off your mind.  What does a "break" mean that you asked of your husband.  Is that a separation or are you just going on vacay with your friends?

[glows]

10 hours ago, RecentlyMarried said:

Dear all just to let you know that my biopsy came back and it says that there are no residual abnormal cells. So now I have spoken to my husband and said that I would like a break and explained why.

He said OK I hear everything you say and let me think about it. Then he said he realised how wrongly he'd treated me and that he'll try to do better and said to please not cancel the honey moon. He talked in a balanced way and put his point of view across. I am obviously pleased he does recognise the treatment but not pleased he pushed the boundary again...when I said I needed him he pushed to do his things when I say I need space I find him on the doorstep.

Now I will let this sit. I decided to go away with friends on the weekend and will do the same next week. Try just to take care of myself now

 

Thank you all xxxxx

Can you clarify the part in bold? You said you needed him for what? He pushed to do “his things” meaning what things? When a person needs space it doesn’t sound good and breaks aren’t meant to be used like a threat or ultimatum. If he’s on the “doorstep” so are you. 

Breaks just prolong the poor dynamic you both have. He apologized but you’ll have to decide if anything has changed in your marriage and you won’t be able to do that if you’re taking “breaks”.

That’s good news about the biopsy and a relief. Is there further follow up? I hope it continues with the all clear.
 

[stillafool]

15 hours ago, RecentlyMarried said:

He said OK I hear everything you say and let me think about it.

Why does he have to give you his permission for the break you want to take?

[RecentlyMarried]

Hi I reply to you all. First, thank you for sharing my relief! 

@AnnamaI hope this has been a moment for him of realising; however am not convinced that he truly wants to 'work on our marriage'. Also because quite frankly, the fact that, for example, he goes off and organises his free time without consulting me for me is not a marital issue; for me is him acting as a moron. Either I accept it, and I don't, or he changes it. I will see it over time! He did admit that he had treated me wrongly; he realises that he at times brings to the relationship dynamics that are not healthy and that are responses to previous relationships; he also told me a couple of things about me that make him withdraw and I take the points, so we did have a sensible conversation and he did take a good bit of ownership. He also said, and I felt he was genuine, that he loves me very deeply and is very committed to our marriage. But I am skeptical; words are easy.   

@stillafoolI agree with you, he shouldn't give me permission, in fact I am ambivalent about his response. In one way he took ownership and recognised he treated me wrong, but in the other, he just thought 'ok I will just act differently now' regardless of what I asked. Once again, he goes off and does what he wants ignoring what I say. I am partly pleased obviously because I wouldn't want to divorce; who would want that; but I am not feeling entirely reassured by the way he responded. I will have to see over time. To be precise, in terms of breaks, I just said to him the truth; that maybe we should just spend some time by ourselves, and that I need that; that when I am around him I don't have fun any more, neither does he; I am always in bad mood because I feel treated badly and I am turning into a person I am not and don't want to be; that I have strong reservations around going together on honey moon (which is due in two weeks) because I can see an absolute disaster coming out of it, and don't want to spend time in a miserable way. I don't need the honey moon as 'test'; I already know that I have been unhappy in the marriage since the day after the op. And finally, that I don't feel any more even to make love with him, and I am so tired of inexisting issues with him. I just want a rest and not think about us, not have that bad mood (that's why the 'indifference' post); I just want not to feel the way this relationship has made me feel in the last two months. I didn't say how long I wanted; I said very calmly what my feelings are.

@glowshis things...I meant, the day after the op he went back to work, and he has two jobs, leaves at 830 am and comes home at 930pm; I asked very clearly not to be put in charge of his daughter, for various reasons, and one was that I was recuperating; it took him 3 weeks to find a babysitter. And again it took me to say 'she can't stay with me any longer' for him to act and find one. Weekends, as I said, he booked stuff (he plays in a band, as a cover when the other musician isn't available), every single saturday without even discussing whether I had plans. When I said that this for me was not right, he said yes you are right, and he kept doing it. That's what I mean by 'his things' and pushes the boundaries. I absolutely agree that breaks should not be used as ultimatums and I did not give him ultimatums in fact. I just told him very frankly how I feel. Now, whether me being very candid made him think a bit more deeply about what he wants, or whether this is the reaction of the 6 year old boy who behaves well when is about to lose the toy I don't know, because I am not in his head. I know that he is not a bad person, and I feel he is genuine when he says that he loves me very deeply, I know that I am not perfect either and I know that I don't want to divorce but also that I can't go on the way we have been for the last two months.

For the biopsy, yes follow up in July. And I think more regularly from now on. But SO SO SO relieved that all the cancer cells have been taken out now. 

All the best to you all for a wonderful Sunday! 

 

[Wiseman2]

13 minutes ago, RecentlyMarried said:

  I know that I don't want to divorce but also that I can't go on the way we have been for the last two months.

Focus on your health and well-being. Do you need to stay married for healthcare insurance? 

Are you still living apart?

 

[RecentlyMarried]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:57 PM, dramafreezone said:

It sounds as if your therapist may be trying to offer a balanced vantage point.  I think the prospect of divorce is freely suggested by people far away from the situation with no investment.  The truth is divorces can be extraordinarily painful for everyone involved and not always worth it.  Sometimes it is unavoidable but I think the therapist is simply advising you to consider all avenues towards resolution/compromise, with divorce being an option of last resort instead of first choice (as it is too much these days).

I think counseling was a very reasonable suggestion from him, so curious that you would not even consider it.  What are the reasons why you think counseling would be pointless?  What harm would come of it?

Yes that is exactly the point. It isn't like i separate and divorce and we are all happy...

I think Counselling wouldn't be helpful to address some of the issues because we'd end up arguing in front of the therapist. I am not against the idea in general. Is just at this point of the relationship I think it would just turn up to be a place where we just go and have an argument. 

[RecentlyMarried]

16 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Focus on your health and well-being. Do you need to stay married for healthcare insurance? 

Are you still living apart?

 

No. We can't get divorced before 3 years here in England but we don't have the health insurance worry at least. I have my own house where I live with my child so I am alright. That is exactly what I am trying to do...just focus on my own wellbeing (hence the indifference plea initially). I genuinely don't know if I want to continue this relationship but I am in no hurry. Is not like I need to find a place to stay and things like these.

[vla1120]

On 3/26/2022 at 4:04 AM, RecentlyMarried said:

Dear all just to let you know that my biopsy came back and it says that there are no residual abnormal cells. So now I have spoken to my husband and said that I would like a break and explained why.

Excellent news about the biopsy! Concentrate on your own health and welfare. His actions speak louder than words. While he has helped you out here and there, he acknowledges that he is being unfair to you when he schedules his weekend gigs without any consideration for you, but continues the same behavior. That's not promising. You do what is best for you. I hope you are finding peace and some time to reflect. 

[glows]

5 hours ago, RecentlyMarried said:

Hi I reply to you all. First, thank you for sharing my relief! 

@AnnamaI hope this has been a moment for him of realising; however am not convinced that he truly wants to 'work on our marriage'. Also because quite frankly, the fact that, for example, he goes off and organises his free time without consulting me for me is not a marital issue; for me is him acting as a moron. Either I accept it, and I don't, or he changes it. I will see it over time! He did admit that he had treated me wrongly; he realises that he at times brings to the relationship dynamics that are not healthy and that are responses to previous relationships; he also told me a couple of things about me that make him withdraw and I take the points, so we did have a sensible conversation and he did take a good bit of ownership. He also said, and I felt he was genuine, that he loves me very deeply and is very committed to our marriage. But I am skeptical; words are easy.   

@stillafoolI agree with you, he shouldn't give me permission, in fact I am ambivalent about his response. In one way he took ownership and recognised he treated me wrong, but in the other, he just thought 'ok I will just act differently now' regardless of what I asked. Once again, he goes off and does what he wants ignoring what I say. I am partly pleased obviously because I wouldn't want to divorce; who would want that; but I am not feeling entirely reassured by the way he responded. I will have to see over time. To be precise, in terms of breaks, I just said to him the truth; that maybe we should just spend some time by ourselves, and that I need that; that when I am around him I don't have fun any more, neither does he; I am always in bad mood because I feel treated badly and I am turning into a person I am not and don't want to be; that I have strong reservations around going together on honey moon (which is due in two weeks) because I can see an absolute disaster coming out of it, and don't want to spend time in a miserable way. I don't need the honey moon as 'test'; I already know that I have been unhappy in the marriage since the day after the op. And finally, that I don't feel any more even to make love with him, and I am so tired of inexisting issues with him. I just want a rest and not think about us, not have that bad mood (that's why the 'indifference' post); I just want not to feel the way this relationship has made me feel in the last two months. I didn't say how long I wanted; I said very calmly what my feelings are.

@glowshis things...I meant, the day after the op he went back to work, and he has two jobs, leaves at 830 am and comes home at 930pm; I asked very clearly not to be put in charge of his daughter, for various reasons, and one was that I was recuperating; it took him 3 weeks to find a babysitter. And again it took me to say 'she can't stay with me any longer' for him to act and find one. Weekends, as I said, he booked stuff (he plays in a band, as a cover when the other musician isn't available), every single saturday without even discussing whether I had plans. When I said that this for me was not right, he said yes you are right, and he kept doing it. That's what I mean by 'his things' and pushes the boundaries. I absolutely agree that breaks should not be used as ultimatums and I did not give him ultimatums in fact. I just told him very frankly how I feel. Now, whether me being very candid made him think a bit more deeply about what he wants, or whether this is the reaction of the 6 year old boy who behaves well when is about to lose the toy I don't know, because I am not in his head. I know that he is not a bad person, and I feel he is genuine when he says that he loves me very deeply, I know that I am not perfect either and I know that I don't want to divorce but also that I can't go on the way we have been for the last two months.

For the biopsy, yes follow up in July. And I think more regularly from now on. But SO SO SO relieved that all the cancer cells have been taken out now. 

All the best to you all for a wonderful Sunday! 

 

Thanks for clarifying. You’ve called him a moron so that does suggest a lot of resentment. If you’re looking upon a person with such spite I don’t think it will last. He’s not the person you’re looking for ultimately in a partner. Perhaps being diagnosed with cancer and a little time was all it took to peel those initial layers of romance off and see each other for who you are. 

5 hours ago, RecentlyMarried said:

No. We can't get divorced before 3 years here in England but we don't have the health insurance worry at least. I have my own house where I live with my child so I am alright. That is exactly what I am trying to do...just focus on my own wellbeing (hence the indifference plea initially). I genuinely don't know if I want to continue this relationship but I am in no hurry. Is not like I need to find a place to stay and things like these.

It’s two years of separation before divorce in the UK, not three. This may bring a decision closer than previously thought. You both don’t sound compatible at all.

It takes awhile to get used to the idea of divorce being a tool to set yourself free instead of thinking of it as a failure on your parts of the marriage. That’s something counselling can help you navigate and stop beating yourself up over making that choice or letting others’ guilt and opinions or society’s expectations influence you. I think people who have never been through it cannot comment on the validity of divorce if they’ve never been pushed to that decision or seen the benefits of divorce in the long run. There’s no reason to prolong the miserable nature of your lives together if it’s not working.