I'm dating a nice woman but I'm conflicted

[bene]

On 6/20/2022 at 9:25 PM, ZA Dater said:

I'll do this a bit differently and say I was wrong about a lot of things, in fact dare I say fundamentally wrong.

For what it’s worth, I think you have made some progress in your black and white thinking. Since you have more real life experiences now, you are debating less about theoretical concepts about dating that exist solely in your head. 

30 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

To be honest there is one singular thing which is the most important to me, its a lovely wall paper over the cracks type materialistic solution but it is about as evasive as finding oil in the backyard, I bet everything on that, my entire life plan was built on that and yeah I have woken up to the fact its unlikely to ever happen. 

My entire long term goal is gone and nothing else really interests me.

What was the one goal?

[NotCallum]

ZA Dater, have you thought of looking up Dr Martin Seligman  on learned helplessness? Don't waste this woman's time if you're not in it to win it. How does she feel about you? Is she ok being treated like a chore? It's good you see her value and worth, but is it love? You seem filled with regrets, longingly looking over your shoulders at a past that never was. Are you sure you are not using her positive energy and kindness as a clutch? This 'dating' relationship seems so one-sided it's painful to read (for her, not you). She must see something in you to carry on dating you (it's been almost 7 months, hasn't it) - are you going to throw it all away because the ideal relationship you have in your mind will not fit the reality in front of you? 

Don't let her suffer unnecessarily. Were I her, reading this thread, I'd want to leave. Be kind to her, whatever you do. 

 

 

[Versacehottie]

Even Dr Seligman---the guru of positive psychology--would say that ZA is depressed!  

Sorry ZA, you keep looking for outside sources to change how you feel when you need to look inward and change your thought patterns. I could pick any one of your posts and highlight or bold all the clues that show that you are dealing with pervasive, fatalistic or hopeless thinking/thought patterns. In way those are just etched in grooves of neural pathways in your brain and you are defaulting regularly to the set in pathways which will most of the time have you seeing any situation negatively.  In other words, your outside circumstances could get objectively 1000 times better and you will still find fault or be uncomfortable. Prime example being that when out with the girlfriend and friends last night you feel extremely awkward and have what seems to be social anxiety---and yet you long for a more high-pressure situation of a girlfriend you hold on a pedestal/trophy girlfriend. You think that will make the social anxiety easier?? No, it will just ramp it up--plus the very likely reality that you wouldn't be able to get to that circumstance in life because your own thought patterns get in the way. 

Do you have any objections to getting professional help? I mean you don't even have to "admit" anything is wrong with you.  Much like here, you seem to be curious as to how you operate in this world, what makes you tick etc etc. You've spent a lot of time---quite a bit of it spinning your wheels as talking here is nice but if you need professional help and want real change then you should take it to the next level--here going over and over things in your life.  Why not take the approach that not necessarily that the professional will label you or make things even more doomed but only as experimentational on yourself. Like with your current belief that things are hopeless, what is the harm in learning some techniques and trying some of the things a professional might have to offer? 

Bottom line: you won't find this happiness, that seems so elusive for you, in another person. You have to find it in yourself first and learn how to manage your thought patterns. 

[SingFish]

4 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

Like with your current belief that things are hopeless

Believe things are hopeless and they likely will be, humans will let the perfect obscure the 'good enough' to confirm it!

A sense of playful curiosity about life would serve you well @ZA Dater 

[NotCallum]

Happiness is a state of mind, @ZA Dater. You are going to have to learn to leave your confliction at the door, and let it go. You can't change your past, you just need to acknowledge it, move past it whichever way works best for you (talk it out with friends or family, for instance) and learn to look at your life with fresh eyes, outside of your own mind. 

Whatever you do, do it with thoughtfulness, consideration, empathy and kindness to yourself and to those around you.

[ironpony]

Sometimes I feel that the chase is the best part but the dating part doesn't work later, so maybe just having the chase is better, but I also in doubt as well, since I feel that going through life with a partner, seems like it would make life easier, with two people supporting each other, rather than a person being on their own, their whole life.

[NuevoYorko]

I realize that you can't just change your personality or moods because it would be a good idea to do so - but I don't think it would be too much to ask of yourself to apply some of your clinically analytical approach to yourself and not just to all the systems of the world and the trajectory of your life which you believe have come together perfectly to thwart you.

You seem to have concluded that now, you know about dating, and it doesn't "work."

You don't know about it, though.  You are socially behind the curve and probably more similar to a young teenager of 13 -15 years in the sphere of interpersonal relationships.  

I'm not saying this to insult you.  It's just the way it is.  You would be in a much different place if you could acknowledge to yourself that you don't understand or know how to do dating and socializing.  You are in a place where you are learning how, or not.  

Why don't you just change your perspective on this, since evidently you are still torturing yourself by spending time with this woman who doesn't look like a model.  What are you bringing.  Try to bring something to groups of people you are with.  Make it your job.  You'll learn a lot if you do that.  

Question, though:  If she did look like a model, or captivate entire rooms full of people with her astute conversational abilities and charm, would you then be able to find time in your schedule for her?

[Trail Blazer]

@ZA Dater

Can you say with any certainty what she wants?  She's still around, so obviously something is working to some degree.  It does not appear as though your dating objectives do not align, though.  

You speak about her as though she's a Toyota Camry.  Useful, practical, reliable.  However, in your heart, you won't be content until you own that Prancing Horse (that's a Ferrari for the uninitiated)

It does not appear as though you yearn to be in her presence.  Women want more than for a guy to just settle.  Does she know that if you remain with her, you'd essentially be settling (in your mind)?

What are the deep and meaningful conversations you've had with her revolve around?  Do you guys talk as though you see being in each other's lives as a long-term goal?  This is where you'll find out if your objectives align.

Whilst you've certainly made some strides in the last year, I still see self-perpetuating dysfunction which you're unable to see through, let alone shake.  This melancholy of yours is pervasive, as a result, as you seemingly have no clarity or perspective.

Don't worry about what you don't have, or didn't do, at an arbitrary point in the past.  Relish the fact that you have discovered new opportunities to see the world, and act on them to create more positive experiences.

All the best.

[ZA Dater]

On 6/24/2022 at 5:49 PM, NuevoYorko said:

I realize that you can't just change your personality or moods because it would be a good idea to do so - but I don't think it would be too much to ask of yourself to apply some of your clinically analytical approach to yourself and not just to all the systems of the world and the trajectory of your life which you believe have come together perfectly to thwart you.

You seem to have concluded that now, you know about dating, and it doesn't "work."

You don't know about it, though.  You are socially behind the curve and probably more similar to a young teenager of 13 -15 years in the sphere of interpersonal relationships.  

I'm not saying this to insult you.  It's just the way it is.  You would be in a much different place if you could acknowledge to yourself that you don't understand or know how to do dating and socializing.  You are in a place where you are learning how, or not.  

Why don't you just change your perspective on this, since evidently you are still torturing yourself by spending time with this woman who doesn't look like a model.  What are you bringing.  Try to bring something to groups of people you are with.  Make it your job.  You'll learn a lot if you do that.  

Question, though:  If she did look like a model, or captivate entire rooms full of people with her astute conversational abilities and charm, would you then be able to find time in your schedule for her?

I had to apply a lot of critical thinking to this reply. Socialising is not much an issue, I really, really did try engage with these people but it got me nowhere because they did not seem to want to engage with me. Perhaps its wrong but to be honest if I can choose not to be in those situations I will not going to be in them. No argument from me that I am behind when it comes to dating, miles and incomprehensibly behind. I have never understood dating, all i have know is the people I enjoyed being with and who made me feel something. I enjoy spending time with her, its not even looks, she is pretty, she is smart, she is very thoughtful. 

I bring nothing to anything that does not revolve around work or my very narrow hobbies, that is just the fact, I have gone through life with little to no encouragement, if anything most of the time people talk behind my back. I have a great capacity to care. 

There are many people who depend on me and those people will always come before my own wishes.

[ZA Dater]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:28 PM, Trail Blazer said:

@ZA Dater

Can you say with any certainty what she wants?  She's still around, so obviously something is working to some degree.  It does not appear as though your dating objectives do not align, though.  

You speak about her as though she's a Toyota Camry.  Useful, practical, reliable.  However, in your heart, you won't be content until you own that Prancing Horse (that's a Ferrari for the uninitiated)

It does not appear as though you yearn to be in her presence.  Women want more than for a guy to just settle.  Does she know that if you remain with her, you'd essentially be settling (in your mind)?

What are the deep and meaningful conversations you've had with her revolve around?  Do you guys talk as though you see being in each other's lives as a long-term goal?  This is where you'll find out if your objectives align.

Whilst you've certainly made some strides in the last year, I still see self-perpetuating dysfunction which you're unable to see through, let alone shake.  This melancholy of yours is pervasive, as a result, as you seemingly have no clarity or perspective.

Don't worry about what you don't have, or didn't do, at an arbitrary point in the past.  Relish the fact that you have discovered new opportunities to see the world, and act on them to create more positive experiences.

All the best.

This bold part is what I am grappling with at the moment, I simply do not know how to approach this. I grew up thinking years ahead making plans years ahead, working toward long term goals but as I got older I saw people dying around me, getting sick, suffering tragedy and it was then I realised that most long term planning is nothing more than a wish rather than an assurance. She is pushing me on the above bold point and honestly there is nothing I can do, I am giving everything I have at the moment. 

As for cars, they bring me the most joy in life. For what its worth her and I share this which is quite rare and I lucky to share that with her. 

Contentedness will only really arrive when I at least accomplish one of my goals. 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

As for cars, they bring me the most joy in life.

It's good that she shares an interest in cars, but how do you think she'd feel if she knew that an inanimate object brings you more joy than she does?  

[SingFish]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I enjoy spending time with her, its not even looks, she is pretty, she is smart, she is very thoughtful. 

And that's it for dating! Honestly. 

The life goals thing is something we all have to come to terms with. I'd like to win the Nobel Prize for literature and so far all I've done towards it is write half a book...! I'd be happy just to finish it now though. There's a difference between pipe dreams and reality, @ZA Dater

Just live.

[Trail Blazer]

20 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

This bold part is what I am grappling with at the moment, I simply do not know how to approach this. I grew up thinking years ahead making plans years ahead, working toward long term goals but as I got older I saw people dying around me, getting sick, suffering tragedy and it was then I realised that most long term planning is nothing more than a wish rather than an assurance. She is pushing me on the above bold point and honestly there is nothing I can do, I am giving everything I have at the moment. 

As for cars, they bring me the most joy in life. For what its worth her and I share this which is quite rare and I lucky to share that with her. 

Contentedness will only really arrive when I at least accomplish one of my goals. 

Couples don't sit around making long-term goals about remaining with each other just in isolation.  Couples comprise of two individuals, individuals that both have their own wants and needs. 

Functional couples listen to what each individual wants and needs.  Functional couples plan together, a future, where both parties' goals align.

What do you want in the next two, five, ten years time?  Do you want this woman in your life, to help realize these goals?  And, equally, do you take a keen interest in her goals and harbor a desire to help her achieve hers as well?

Buddy, it's not that hard.  You should know in your heart if you see a future with this woman.  If you have to try to convince yourself you do, then you don't.  

In saying that, since you don't fall under the normal dating scope, perhaps no woman is someone you'd see a future with.  At least, not for the right reasons. 

A hot woman is like an asset that you desire to possess, but her looks have zero bearing on whether she would be appropriate and/or compatible to plan a future around.

Think about what you want.  Think about what she wants.  Think about whether, together, you guys can help each other reach your individual goals.  Think about whether you're compatible to develop new life goals together.

Perhaps you're just not suited to being in a relationship.  Or, perhaps you need to concede your limited capacity to provide a woman what she needs in a relationship. 

And, in that case, you need to help this woman understand your limited capacity to be a life-long partner.  I am sure she has an inkling already, and as patient as she may be, her patience may run out in time.

As for cars, that's great.  My mentioning of cars was merely an analogy.  Whilst it's good you share a common interest, it's much more important to ascertain whether you share a common goal.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Trail Blazer

[ZA Dater]

On 6/27/2022 at 6:19 PM, Trail Blazer said:

Couples don't sit around making long-term goals about remaining with each other just in isolation.  Couples comprise of two individuals, individuals that both have their own wants and needs. 

Functional couples listen to what each individual wants and needs.  Functional couples plan together, a future, where both parties' goals align.

What do you want in the next two, five, ten years time?  Do you want this woman in your life, to help realize these goals?  And, equally, do you take a keen interest in her goals and harbor a desire to help her achieve hers as well?

Buddy, it's not that hard.  You should know in your heart if you see a future with this woman.  If you have to try to convince yourself you do, then you don't.  

In saying that, since you don't fall under the normal dating scope, perhaps no woman is someone you'd see a future with.  At least, not for the right reasons. 

A hot woman is like an asset that you desire to possess, but her looks have zero bearing on whether she would be appropriate and/or compatible to plan a future around.

Think about what you want.  Think about what she wants.  Think about whether, together, you guys can help each other reach your individual goals.  Think about whether you're compatible to develop new life goals together.

Perhaps you're just not suited to being in a relationship.  Or, perhaps you need to concede your limited capacity to provide a woman what she needs in a relationship. 

And, in that case, you need to help this woman understand your limited capacity to be a life-long partner.  I am sure she has an inkling already, and as patient as she may be, her patience may run out in time.

As for cars, that's great.  My mentioning of cars was merely an analogy.  Whilst it's good you share a common interest, it's much more important to ascertain whether you share a common goal.

I have pretty much given up on most of mine as they fall into the unattainable category, which oddly seems to be where everything I like falls into. For me its just a case of making the best of what I have now. I'll be honest we do not talk about goals per se, we tend to talk about today rather than tomorrow though she does love to plan things. The fact of the matter is she is older than me, we have had very different life experiences, she has done the kids thing, I wont ever do the kids thing, we both have had similar traumatic events in our lives, we live very similar lives in some respects. Seeing as I do not have friends, everyone I know really likes her so this is great.

What I want is largely irrelevant because the hand I have been dealt does not align with those wants at all so its a case of taking the odd crumb here and there and enjoying that rather actually have the full cake in front of me. There are two things I absolutely detest in life and they both have a direct link to my dating life.

1: Being told as a kid how handsome I was. Absolute rubbish, I'd have been better off being told "now you know you are really quite odd looking"

2: "You should be so proud of what you have accomplished" another totally pointless comment because the truth is I have accomplished nothing I set out to accomplish.

The fact is I sacrificed much of my life for the betterment of others. 

Life would be a lot easier if I never aspired to anything. Easier still if I do not have to spend it around people who have what I aspire to and will never get. I have just grown increasingly tired of watching everyone accomplish things and while I keep trying I never seem to accomplish anything at all.

For a set of circumstances I have become irreparably damaged. Maybe some people are just born loners. 

 

 

[Trail Blazer]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have pretty much given up on most of mine as they fall into the unattainable category, which oddly seems to be where everything I like falls into. For me its just a case of making the best of what I have now. I'll be honest we do not talk about goals per se, we tend to talk about today rather than tomorrow though she does love to plan things. The fact of the matter is she is older than me, we have had very different life experiences, she has done the kids thing, I wont ever do the kids thing, we both have had similar traumatic events in our lives, we live very similar lives in some respects. Seeing as I do not have friends, everyone I know really likes her so this is great.

What I want is largely irrelevant because the hand I have been dealt does not align with those wants at all so its a case of taking the odd crumb here and there and enjoying that rather actually have the full cake in front of me. There are two things I absolutely detest in life and they both have a direct link to my dating life.

1: Being told as a kid how handsome I was. Absolute rubbish, I'd have been better off being told "now you know you are really quite odd looking"

2: "You should be so proud of what you have accomplished" another totally pointless comment because the truth is I have accomplished nothing I set out to accomplish.

The fact is I sacrificed much of my life for the betterment of others. 

Life would be a lot easier if I never aspired to anything. Easier still if I do not have to spend it around people who have what I aspire to and will never get. I have just grown increasingly tired of watching everyone accomplish things and while I keep trying I never seem to accomplish anything at all.

For a set of circumstances I have become irreparably damaged. Maybe some people are just born loners. 

 

 

That all sounds a bit melodramatic.  You have a good career, you're seemingly financially secure, and now you have a relationship with a woman who must have good qualities, otherwise you'd have found a reason to leave her a long time ago.

Dude, you're doing better than most.  Especially in your country, where so many don't have the privileges which have seemingly been afforded to you.

If you adjusted your attitude to be grateful for the advantages you do have, you'd be able to see and take advantage of the opportunities in life that have been afforded to you.

You know what?  Not everyone is going to look like Chris Hemsworth or Brad Pitt.  Most guys struggle on dating apps.  Many guys don't have a decent career.  Many are born into poverty and have nothing.

I'm not suggesting you've not had a hard life.  I don't know your background.  What I am suggesting, however, is that at least on the surface, you have a lot to be grateful for.  

[basil67]

You should be so proud of what you have accomplished" another totally pointless comment because the truth is I have accomplished nothing I set out to accomplish. 

This comment is not pointless. Rather, they just let you in on the secret to life.  Learning to counting your blessings is essential if you wish to find contentment with life.   Of course, you do not have to listen to the advice, but your refusal to do is is the cause of most of your despair.

Edited July 6, 2022 by basil67

[NuevoYorko]

16 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

What I want is largely irrelevant because the hand I have been dealt does not align with those wants at all so its a case of taking the odd crumb here and there and enjoying that rather actually have the full cake in front of me.

 

 

 You just described this woman you're seeing and then go to how you have to take the "odd crumb here and there" since you can't "get" what you want.

Do you realize how this comes off?  

 

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

You should be so proud of what you have accomplished" another totally pointless comment because the truth is I have accomplished nothing I set out to accomplish. 

This comment is not pointless. Rather, they just let you in on the secret to life.  Learning to counting your blessings is essential if you wish to find contentment with life.   Of course, you do not have to listen to the advice, but your refusal to do is is the cause of most of your despair.

I'd contend that comments like that are just said to make people feel better. 

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

 You just described this woman you're seeing and then go to how you have to take the "odd crumb here and there" since you can't "get" what you want.

Do you realize how this comes off?  

 

Its all about the context. Ultimately I do have it quite good but when one has spent years planning what one actually wants and then the horrible reality is that is not possible, even you will need to admit that takes some getting used to....Do I really have a dating future with her, who knows really but its not like people are lining up to date me. 

My life is full of regrets but none more so than not dating like other people did.

[AndyCapp99]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Its all about the context. Ultimately I do have it quite good but when one has spent years planning what one actually wants and then the horrible reality is that is not possible, even you will need to admit that takes some getting used to....Do I really have a dating future with her, who knows really but its not like people are lining up to date me. 

My life is full of regrets but none more so than not dating like other people did.

Wait, so you’re continuing to date this woman because you have no other options “lining up”.?

 

So she’s not good enough for you but you’re keeping her around because she’s all that wants you? 
 

Damn. I hope she finds all this out. Poor woman. 

[Venus080411]

22 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Its all about the context. Ultimately I do have it quite good but when one has spent years planning what one actually wants and then the horrible reality is that is not possible, even you will need to admit that takes some getting used to....Do I really have a dating future with her, who knows really but its not like people are lining up to date me. 

My life is full of regrets but none more so than not dating like other people did.

You should let this poor girl go.  Every time I read your posts I just feel for this girl.  Do not string her along.  It is not fair to her.

[Lisa]

This thread has had a clean up.  Please show OP the courtesy of talking to him - not about him.

[basil67]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd contend that comments like that are just said to make people feel better. 

Yes, of course you say that.  Cynicism is a personality trait which makes it hard for us to trust good advice from others....and indeed, to learn gratefulness.  This, along with envy which is also very dominant in your personality are undoubtedly holding you back in terms of friendship, romance, a probably a number of your other goals in life.  

There's a whole lot of psychological research into the positives that 'gratefulness' can bring to our lives.  Sure, it's not a cure-all, but if you were to improve your outlook by 30%, this is a huge improvement.  And being more positive will bring more positivity your way and then your life improves further.   

But you're not the only one who's unable to be grateful.  Here's more about it https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/why_is_gratitude_so_hard_for_some_people

Edited July 6, 2022 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

On 7/6/2022 at 3:04 PM, AndyCapp99 said:

Wait, so you’re continuing to date this woman because you have no other options “lining up”.?

 

So she’s not good enough for you but you’re keeping her around because she’s all that wants you? 
 

Damn. I hope she finds all this out. Poor woman. 

No I actually do like her. We get along really well, there is a lot of light conversation, its not about life goals, its about our interests, our work days, hobbies, its not planning for 5 years down the road type of conversation.

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yes, of course you say that.  Cynicism is a personality trait which makes it hard for us to trust good advice from others....and indeed, to learn gratefulness.  This, along with envy which is also very dominant in your personality are undoubtedly holding you back in terms of friendship, romance, a probably a number of your other goals in life.  

There's a whole lot of psychological research into the positives that 'gratefulness' can bring to our lives.  Sure, it's not a cure-all, but if you were to improve your outlook by 30%, this is a huge improvement.  And being more positive will bring more positivity your way and then your life improves further.   

But you're not the only one who's unable to be grateful.  Here's more about it https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/why_is_gratitude_so_hard_for_some_people

 I suppose it would not then surprise you to know I trust very few people, almost none in fact. Remember for me almost everything is about attempting to the near impossible so I fail and never really succeed but there is always an allure to the near impossible. I suppose I could try bring these challenges into this current dating set up but that does not seem to be fair to me and I wont lie my cold heart has been melted by the sheer goodness she brings to my life. 

Its nice having someone who cares and I try give back as much as I can, I try to show feelings. Most of my irritation is  really because I am not where I want to be in life.