I'm dating a nice woman but I'm conflicted

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The 10's are reserved for those with material wealth, charisma and they know how to work with that they have, that is just the reality of life.

I'll be honest I aspired to that but quite clearly no amount of kindness and interest on my part is ever going to make the really attractive people interested in me. 

You are just not willing to ever move past this thinking, are you.

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The inherent problem here is me having to force myself to try be different and trying to reconcile what is to what I actually want, again this pattern runs across my entire life. I want X but I have Y, how do I make myself content with Y event though it's X that I really want?

You prove the point - those who are unhappy when single will also be unhappy if/when they are in a relationship. 

[Eternal Sunshine]

16 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

To be honest I am fast thinking nothing dating wise will actually work. The inherent problem here is me having to force myself to try be different and trying to reconcile what is to what I actually want, again this pattern runs across my entire life. I want X but I have Y, how do I make myself content with Y event though it's X that I really want?

Again there is a lot I like about her.

It comes down to: is Y preferable than being alone? For me it's either X or nothing. Alone is better than Y. For you it may be different. It took me many years of trying to force myself into relationships with Ys to realize that. Most people have their Ys and happy lives with them. I do wish it was the same for me.

Those that don't struggle with dating  and have Xs, typically have met their partner in early 20s or younger. Others have natural charisma which doesn't have much to do with looks or wealth. Or even outgoing personality. It's some kind of intangible confidence that you either have or you don't. If it's something that you don't have, there is little point n dwelling or complaining since I don't believe you can change it. I have been much happier since I focused on other areas of life that are working better for me.

 

[Trail Blazer]

19 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

For some reference I am nearly 38 and never dated anyone so its not like people have been falling over themselves to date me, its also not like I walk into the room and have my pick of the room either, where I move in life I am pretty much the worst option in any given situation. The 10's are reserved for those with material wealth, charisma and they know how to work with that they have, that is just the reality of life.

I'll be honest I aspired to that but quite clearly no amount of kindness and interest on my part is ever going to make the really attractive people interested in me. 

The only people who have been interested in me have been wholly incompatible.

What is your obsession with landing a "10"?  I get it, we all want someone we find attractive, but you seem to idolise landing a hot woman just the same as you would an exotic supercar.  Are you just wanting to show off?

I think the most successful guys who land dates do so without trying to land a 10 - they do so by trying to land someone who ticks all their boxes and doesn't put that woman on a pedestal because being a "10" is a bonus which doesn't define her actual worth.

I'm not going to say I'm dating "a 10" but what I am going to say is I had my mind set on a certain type of woman that I found attractive, who encompassed all the things that were important to me, and I've been lucky enough to find my unicorn who is everything I'd ever hoped for an more.

I don't put it down to sheer luck.  However, I don't put it down to being the best looking Chad that ever existed, either.  I'm far from rich, I'm no model and I've never been to college.  However, I believe I have an attitude which helps me succeed and achieve my goals in life, and that is what my girlfriend and many others before her found attractive.

Without trying to sound conceited, natural good looks or charm (of which I'm not saying I have an abundance of either) can only get you so far.  A foot in the door?  Yeah... but if you want to keep it that way, keep her happy, then brother, you've got to work out what makes your woman tick as well!

I dunno, man... just stop focusing on landing a 10, or even caring about the other guys who land 10s.  It's negative and toxic thinking which will only bring you down.  Work on yourself, work on your goals and work out whether what you want in life is even compatible with a relationship.

If you don't nail that last part, no amount of 10s are ever going to make you truly happy.

[BaileyB]

You can spend your life searching for what may be arbitrarily and superficially defined as the perfect “10.” 

Just remember, people grow older, beauty fades, money can be lost, and other people aren’t really as interested in your life as you may think.

So, you can continue to wait for your perfect woman (understanding that you are far from perfect yourself). Or, you can build a relationship with a good woman who is kind, and loving, and generous, and beautiful/attractive to you - 

Someone who loves you and brings joy to your life. Someone who listens to your fears, holds you when you are sad, celebrates your success, stands by you when you are struggling. 

It’s entirely your choice ZA. I know what I have chosen. He may not be the perfect ten by other standards, but he’s pretty darn close for me. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by BaileyB

[poppyfields]

ZA, I'm curious to know, what is a perfect "10" -- for you?  

The natural inclination is to say it's about looks/appearance but perhaps it's not that (or only that) for you.  It's not only that for me, which is why I ask.  It's always subjective; what's one man's 10, is another man's 6 and vice versa.   

So who is this woman?  This "10" you're seeking?  What does she look like (to you) and I don't mean just physically.  

Of course you need to find her very attractive, but what else? 

Are you searching for specific qualities that would render her a 10 (in your eyes) or are you searching for a specific "feeling" you have about her? 

I think we're all searching for our own "10."  May not be what anorher person's idea of a 10 is but that's OK, all that matters is what WE think and how WE feel. 

This woman you're dating (if that's how you're labeling this) how would you rate her?  

My opinion?  Don't settle.  Your "10" is out there somewhere.   But you won't find her unless and until you love yourself first and believe you deserve her. 

Strive for that and once achieved, your "10" will show up, it may take time but she will come and worth the wait, I can almost promise you that. 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by poppyfields

[Versacehottie]

On 3/23/2022 at 6:07 AM, ZA Dater said:

For some reference I am nearly 38 and never dated anyone so its not like people have been falling over themselves to date me, its also not like I walk into the room and have my pick of the room either, where I move in life I am pretty much the worst option in any given situation. The 10's are reserved for those with material wealth, charisma and they know how to work with that they have, that is just the reality of life.

I'll be honest I aspired to that but quite clearly no amount of kindness and interest on my part is ever going to make the really attractive people interested in me. 

The only people who have been interested in me have been wholly incompatible.

I agree with Bailey about this^^^ pattern of thinking. What I bolded is a huge part of why you devalue those that like you...Instead of getting lost in the fun of it all and going with the flow of emotions that come with allowing yourself to emotionally connect with someone, you are constantly looking exteriorly to see how who you can acquire will make you LOOK to the outside world.  

The difference is you don't allow yourself to allow how you FEEL about the person and your growing relationship with the person (any person) to take flight,,,because you are constantly judging the relationship for how it will bolster your own personal esteem/your perceived perception of how others will see you as a man in this relationship. It doesn't take the women who like you into consideration--they are just objects that either allow you to get the self-esteem you crave or are preventing you from having it (like the current one). This is a you problem for the most part. Until you address the self-esteem part, you will likely struggle.  Even if a girl is a 10 and likes you, you will immediately find fault on the very fact she would be interested in you. Secondly, women who are 10s (and below) of substance would be hard-pressed to like you TBH because you don't truly like yourself. What is preventing you from having some sort of charisma? You can acquire more wealth but then you will likely just be a rich guy with self-esteem issues with women who present like a 10 on the outside but substance is lacking AND they are just using you for the money anyway. I know part of what I'm saying would seem to validate this belief system you hold, but really i would hope that you expand your mindset of what makes up a 10 as well as test that belief system when you are actually BRINGING something to the table in the dating. Being on a date with a woman that you already deem "beneath" you or a consolation prize isn't going to work. 

Second part of the bolded is you trying to get the "result" out of the object of your interest to validate yourself and then you believe your self worth will improve, thrive.  Think less of trying to "win" these people over (which if I remember most of your dates that's not really how they went anyway) but to match and or complement what they are by being a 10 yourself. A contained 10--with or without the other person. 

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, poppyfields said:

ZA, I'm curious to know, what is a perfect "10" -- for you?  

The natural inclination is to say it's about looks/appearance but perhaps it's not that (or only that) for you.  It's not only that for me, which is why I ask.  It's always subjective; what's one man's 10, is another man's 6 and vice versa.   

So who is this woman?  This "10" you're seeking?  What does she look like (to you) and I don't mean just physically.  

Of course you need to find her very attractive, but what else? 

Are you searching for specific qualities that would render her a 10 (in your eyes) or are you searching for a specific "feeling" you have about her? 

I think we're all searching for our own "10."  May not be what anorher person's idea of a 10 is but that's OK, all that matters is what WE think and how WE feel. 

This woman you're dating (if that's how you're labeling this) how would you rate her?  

My opinion?  Don't settle.  Your "10" is out there somewhere.   But you won't find her unless and until you love yourself first and believe you deserve her. 

Strive for that and once achieved, your "10" will show up, it may take time but she will come and worth the wait, I can almost promise you that. 

 

 

10 is a largely meaningless number it more refers to someone I find super attractive overall. I am largely torn here because there is a LOT I like about this current lady and it seems trivial to moan about the very few things I do not like. The fact she likes me is a big plus and I did not need to bend over backwards to try impress her is one, the fact we are pretty compatible is a big win in many respects. 

At 38 I am running out of options to be honest, she is older than me. Realistically I'll never have kids and for me many a day is simply removing things off my life list which I cannot realistically accomplish. Unfortunately I simply know that I am not marketable in the dating world, years and years of meeting people I do like on some level suggests to me that this sort of person will never be interested in me. Then there is the fact I sacrificed by 20's for other things so I never really had the fun that other people had but again how suitable would I be for that, probably not really.

The bottom line is I enjoy spending time with her so I am just going to go with that for the time being but as another poster eluded to I do feel a certain degree of pressure.

[Trail Blazer]

22 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

10 is a largely meaningless number it more refers to someone I find super attractive overall. I am largely torn here because there is a LOT I like about this current lady and it seems trivial to moan about the very few things I do not like. The fact she likes me is a big plus and I did not need to bend over backwards to try impress her is one, the fact we are pretty compatible is a big win in many respects. 

At 38 I am running out of options to be honest, she is older than me. Realistically I'll never have kids and for me many a day is simply removing things off my life list which I cannot realistically accomplish. Unfortunately I simply know that I am not marketable in the dating world, years and years of meeting people I do like on some level suggests to me that this sort of person will never be interested in me. Then there is the fact I sacrificed by 20's for other things so I never really had the fun that other people had but again how suitable would I be for that, probably not really.

The bottom line is I enjoy spending time with her so I am just going to go with that for the time being but as another poster eluded to I do feel a certain degree of pressure.

But what is wrong with her?  She's not hot enough for you?

[chillii]

Just wondering , does she know your not physically interested za or , and also have you two talked at all about whatever this is to you both ?

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

I agree with Bailey about this^^^ pattern of thinking. What I bolded is a huge part of why you devalue those that like you...Instead of getting lost in the fun of it all and going with the flow of emotions that come with allowing yourself to emotionally connect with someone, you are constantly looking exteriorly to see how who you can acquire will make you LOOK to the outside world.  

The difference is you don't allow yourself to allow how you FEEL about the person and your growing relationship with the person (any person) to take flight,,,because you are constantly judging the relationship for how it will bolster your own personal esteem/your perceived perception of how others will see you as a man in this relationship. It doesn't take the women who like you into consideration--they are just objects that either allow you to get the self-esteem you crave or are preventing you from having it (like the current one). This is a you problem for the most part. Until you address the self-esteem part, you will likely struggle.  Even if a girl is a 10 and likes you, you will immediately find fault on the very fact she would be interested in you. Secondly, women who are 10s (and below) of substance would be hard-pressed to like you TBH because you don't truly like yourself. What is preventing you from having some sort of charisma? You can acquire more wealth but then you will likely just be a rich guy with self-esteem issues with women who present like a 10 on the outside but substance is lacking AND they are just using you for the money anyway. I know part of what I'm saying would seem to validate this belief system you hold, but really i would hope that you expand your mindset of what makes up a 10 as well as test that belief system when you are actually BRINGING something to the table in the dating. Being on a date with a woman that you already deem "beneath" you or a consolation prize isn't going to work. 

Second part of the bolded is you trying to get the "result" out of the object of your interest to validate yourself and then you believe your self worth will improve, thrive.  Think less of trying to "win" these people over (which if I remember most of your dates that's not really how they went anyway) but to match and or complement what they are by being a 10 yourself. A contained 10--with or without the other person. 

Here is the thing, I do not really emotionally connect with people. In some respects I experienced things in life which I hope nobody else has to experience and the only way I could get through those years was to simply make myself un emotional and switch everything off, I did that to protect myself and I have just stayed like that which has its benefits.  

I do not really mind how people see me, I grew up being teased mercilessly because I never liked what everyone else seemed to like or did what everyone else seemed to do. 

You are not wrong in the most part I find it particularly difficult not to  buy into dating as a transactional arrangement. Its telling its taken me 37 years to find some sort of mutual attraction, in the back of my mind that cant be forgotten. I can sort of forgive that barring the fact until now I have had next to zero attention from women. 

Again I bring nothing to the table in dating, there is next to nothing about me remarkable enough for most people, I am quite honest about that which is why I guess the few times I have conjured up ways to punch way about my weight I really enjoyed that experience.

Add to the above monumental regrets and it all sort of mixes into something very unattractive.

I am trying to open myself up to her more, she know most of this so is not putting a lot of pressure on me but its a monumental challenge and I continually have to push through the feel of "why am I doing this".

The flip to all of this is while I have had no dating luck I have sat on the sidelines and seen people really get it right and I am happy for them, I know people who seem to get this right, I look them and then look at me.....I eventually stopped doing this because it was doing more harm than good.

Everyone who contributes here keeps me in the game!

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, chillii said:

Just wondering , does she know your not physically interested za or , and also have you two talked at all about whatever this is to you both ?

This is an interesting question because I am not disinterested, I did dial things back quite a lot, again I am not sure I back myself to make any degree of success out of this. 

[ClearEyes-FullHeart]

Hi ZA, I am curious what your parents’ relationship was and whether you saw a positive example in them or other family. Just curious as I don’t remember seeing much about that but I could have missed it. 

[BaileyB]

At what point does she want to have sex? 

[Weezy1973]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:07 AM, ZA Dater said:

Here is the thing, I do not really emotionally connect with people...I did that to protect myself and I have just stayed like that which has its benefits. 

But the costs severely outweigh the benefits. You will continue to have regrets unless you figure this out. I know you've tried therapy and have written it off, but again I'd strongly suggest trying therapy. And tell them this exact thing.

 

On 3/25/2022 at 7:07 AM, ZA Dater said:

You are not wrong in the most part I find it particularly difficult not to  buy into dating as a transactional arrangement. Its telling its taken me 37 years to find some sort of mutual attraction, in the back of my mind that cant be forgotten. I can sort of forgive that barring the fact until now I have had next to zero attention from women.

You have had plenty of attention from women and have had plenty of dates. Just not with women or from women you've been interested in. Try to keep things in perspective. Saying "zero attention from women" is inaccurate.

 

On 3/25/2022 at 7:07 AM, ZA Dater said:

 Again I bring nothing to the table in dating, there is next to nothing about me remarkable enough for most people, I am quite honest about that which is why I guess the few times I have conjured up ways to punch way about my weight I really enjoyed that experience.

You are remarkable (like everyone) because you're the only you around. Now you might not have the general charisma or looks to attract younger model / yoga instructor types, but that doesn't mean you aren't attractive or remarkable. And you haven't conjured up any way to punch above your weight. Generally this happens extremely rarely and there are usually mitigating factors when it does. The value of dating and getting into a relationship IS the connection. Whether you punch above your weight or not is meaningless (and very unlikely to happen).

[ZA Dater]

19 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

But the costs severely outweigh the benefits. You will continue to have regrets unless you figure this out. I know you've tried therapy and have written it off, but again I'd strongly suggest trying therapy. And tell them this exact thing.

 

You have had plenty of attention from women and have had plenty of dates. Just not with women or from women you've been interested in. Try to keep things in perspective. Saying "zero attention from women" is inaccurate.

 

You are remarkable (like everyone) because you're the only you around. Now you might not have the general charisma or looks to attract younger model / yoga instructor types, but that doesn't mean you aren't attractive or remarkable. And you haven't conjured up any way to punch above your weight. Generally this happens extremely rarely and there are usually mitigating factors when it does. The value of dating and getting into a relationship IS the connection. Whether you punch above your weight or not is meaningless (and very unlikely to happen).

For me this makes the entire idea a lot less attractive in general. I have spent most of my life on my own with few friends never mind gf's so its very difficult for me to see much value in connection versus having coffee with someone who superficially is very attractive. You are right the value should be the connection but for me as time goes on this becomes a lot less relevant. 

Yes, its great to spend time with her, yes its great to have similar interests and ABSOLUTELY all the issues are with me but I cant help but wonder even if I did date say an A  whether I would ultimately just arrive in the same place I am know. 

Look I try and make dates with her interesting and she seems to enjoy them which is nice. Ultimately I I think I am probably just doomed to just be on my own forever simply because I cannot reconcile an idea to a reality. 

Maybe I just prefer living in a dream world.

[Weezy1973]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yes, its great to spend time with her, yes its great to have similar interests and ABSOLUTELY all the issues are with me but I cant help but wonder even if I did date say an A  whether I would ultimately just arrive in the same place I am now.

Yes, you would end up in the same place as long as you refuse to address your issues that keep you from connecting to others. Human connection is about as fundamental a need as there is which is why people develop such ingrained defensive mechanisms out of a fear that they're not "worthy" of connection. And that's you. Your whole life is essentially designed as one big defense mechanism.

 

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Maybe I just prefer living in a dream world.

And this is a perfect example. But if you were truly happy living in a dream world, none of your threads here would exist. You'd just be happily living your dream world life. The only way forward is to address those issues. It's hard, but in the end it will be worth it. What other alternative is there?

Edited March 28, 2022 by Weezy1973
Spelling

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

But if you were truly happy living in a dream world, none of your threads here would exist. You'd just be happily living your dream world life.

And yet, when presented with the possibility of a real relationship with a woman, his focus is still on the fantasy - 

[Trail Blazer]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:44 PM, ZA Dater said:

For me this makes the entire idea a lot less attractive in general. I have spent most of my life on my own with few friends never mind gf's so its very difficult for me to see much value in connection versus having coffee with someone who superficially is very attractive. You are right the value should be the connection but for me as time goes on this becomes a lot less relevant. 

Yes, its great to spend time with her, yes its great to have similar interests and ABSOLUTELY all the issues are with me but I cant help but wonder even if I did date say an A  whether I would ultimately just arrive in the same place I am know. 

Look I try and make dates with her interesting and she seems to enjoy them which is nice. Ultimately I I think I am probably just doomed to just be on my own forever simply because I cannot reconcile an idea to a reality. 

Maybe I just prefer living in a dream world.

Yes, you are living in a dream world.  You don't want to connect with women, you just want to have a 10 to claim as a trophy.

What would you do with a 10 if you landed one?  How much time would you spend analyzing before you wanted to have sex?

 

[NuevoYorko]

23 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

But if you were truly happy living in a dream world, none of your threads here would exist. You'd just be happily living your dream world life. The only way forward is to address those issues. It's hard, but in the end it will be worth it. What other alternative is there?

A dream world doesn't necessarily mean all happiness.  It also provides drama and triggers emotions.   But, actual relationships with other live human beings is not necessarily required.  This dream world is a safe place for a person who doesn't really want to interact with others.

OP:  I've followed your threads and commented often.  You are very immature in the realm of interpersonal relationships.   I'm glad that you've connected with a woman to hang out and share times with.  Evidently you aren't physically or romantically drawn to her.  That's too bad, but it happens.  

The problem really comes in when you try to cast a parallel comparison between your feelings about this woman and what you persist in referring to as "A 10."

Please stop placing this woman on an inferior place on a linear scale.  You just aren't into her in "that way."  Leave it there.  

 

[ZA Dater]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:01 PM, Weezy1973 said:

Yes, you would end up in the same place as long as you refuse to address your issues that keep you from connecting to others. Human connection is about as fundamental a need as there is which is why people develop such ingrained defensive mechanisms out of a fear that they're not "worthy" of connection. And that's you. Your whole life is essentially designed as one big defense mechanism.

 

And this is a perfect example. But if you were truly happy living in a dream world, none of your threads here would exist. You'd just be happily living your dream world life. The only way forward is to address those issues. It's hard, but in the end it will be worth it. What other alternative is there?

To be fair I think a part of me simply wanted to see if the reality would compare to what I had in mind which it does not really. For reasons of mostly my own doing.

I have often said that maybe I prefer the idea to the reality, just never been able to actually find the reality.

For nearly 38 years I have never had anyone so I ask myself does it really matter, should I simply settle for the sake of it, resigned in the knowledge what I had in mind was never possible to begin with? 

[ZA Dater]

22 hours ago, BaileyB said:

And yet, when presented with the possibility of a real relationship with a woman, his focus is still on the fantasy - 

Because that's ultimately what I want but I also need to accept that is not possible, this is a very recurring theme. I'll try open myself up more to her and see. 

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I ask myself does it really matter, should I simply settle for the sake of it, resigned in the knowledge what I had in mind was never possible to begin with? 

You should never, ever settle.  It would be a grossly selfish action on your part to do so.   If a woman isn't the one you're delighted to spend the rest of your life with, set her free to find someone who thinks she's wonderful. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

To be fair I think a part of me simply wanted to see if the reality would compare to what I had in mind which it does not really.

Reality rarely compares to fantasy. 

[jspice]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

To be fair I think a part of me simply wanted to see if the reality would compare to what I had in mind which it does not really. For reasons of mostly my own doing.

I have often said that maybe I prefer the idea to the reality, just never been able to actually find the reality.

For nearly 38 years I have never had anyone so I ask myself does it really matter, should I simply settle for the sake of it, resigned in the knowledge what I had in mind was never possible to begin with? 

If you decided to “settle” for this woman, and she actually accepted that and you, given what you’ve written here, I would have to question her self esteem and self worth. 
 

it would be a different story if you were giving her something back but according to what you write, you’re not. What you’re doing is selfish and I have to wonder why she’s allowing this. 

[BaileyB]

In December, when you first posted, you said you had been on four dates with the woman. It’s now been four months.

At some point, you will need to progress this relationship or let her go. 

If you are not feeling it by now, you really should let the woman go so that she can find a man who is excited to be with her. No woman wants to be in a relationship with a man who has to convince himself because she doesn’t meet all of his expectations.