I'm dating a nice woman but I'm conflicted

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

At the end of the day, all I'm reading is that you're holding back because she's not as hot as the fantasy woman you obsess over.

If you do not tell her how you feel, my only hope is that spending more time with her will see you subconsciously align yourself closer to reality.

Without knowing what this woman looks like, it's hard to know exactly how far she is from your ideal woman, looks wise.  If she is your equal, that's the most important thing.

No-one would expect you to be with someone you find physicially unattractive.  At the same time, though, unrealistic people miss out on so much in life holding out for the unobtainable.

The bold is exactly what I am trying to do. The second point is maybe true to some extent but for me life would be extremely unsatisfying if I was not aspiring to be something more.

[ZA Dater]

16 hours ago, poppyfields said:

ZA, ask yourself this - one question.  Well, maybe two. 

Does she "enhance" your life? 

Are you and your life happier with her IN it or not in it? 

Not everyone in a healthy loving relationship feels a passionate physical or sexual attraction for their partner, there is no rule dictating that you should. 

What's important is that she makes you happy, you make her happy, you enhance each other's lives and you're both happier with each other in your lives than without.

 

Yeah its pretty much like the above, life is better with her in it and yes my life is enhanced. Happy for me is a bit of a foreign word, I'd say the highest degree of good I feel is "content", primarily because everything I do is objective driven, achieve the objective, move onto the next one.

[NuevoYorko]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

The bold is exactly what I am trying to do. The second point is maybe true to some extent but for me life would be extremely unsatisfying if I was not aspiring to be something more.

Are you aspiring to be something more?  

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Yeah its pretty much like the above, life is better with her in it and yes my life is enhanced. Happy for me is a bit of a foreign word, I'd say the highest degree of good I feel is "content", primarily because everything I do is objective driven, achieve the objective, move onto the next one.

It's OK to be content.

At the risk of semantics, there's a whole rabbit hole of the difference between 'happy' and 'content'.   Happy is a reaction to something which is happening to us, where as contentment is more about a state of being OK with who we are and the life we're living.   I've been in a very good, loving relationship for almost 30 years and the word I'd use to describe how I feel about it is 'content'.  It works for me.  I also practice gratitude.

However, when it comes to being objective driven....achieve and move on....in relationship terms, this is the mindset of a player.  A person who does what they can to reach that goal and then move on to the next conquest.   Whereas a sustained relationship needs people who are OK with being content for the long term.  Who count their blessings in life and both love and appreciate their partner.  

I feel like you have the mindset of a player but long for the love and companionship of a partner.   And unfortunately, you can't have both.  

One last question:  does this woman see you as a boyfriend or as a companion?   Would you say she's a "girlfriend"?

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

It's OK to be content.

At the risk of semantics, there's a whole rabbit hole of the difference between 'happy' and 'content'.   Happy is a reaction to something which is happening to us, where as contentment is more about a state of being OK with who we are and the life we're living.   I've been in a very good, loving relationship for almost 30 years and the word I'd use to describe how I feel about it is 'content'.  It works for me.  I also practice gratitude.

However, when it comes to being objective driven....achieve and move on....in relationship terms, this is the mindset of a player.  A person who does what they can to reach that goal and then move on to the next conquest.   Whereas a sustained relationship needs people who are OK with being content for the long term.  Who count their blessings in life and both love and appreciate their partner.  

I feel like you have the mindset of a player but long for the love and companionship of a partner.   And unfortunately, you can't have both.  

One last question:  does this woman see you as a boyfriend or as a companion?   Would you say she's a "girlfriend"?

I think the thing I need to do is let go of a lot of things, dating ideas and otherwise, which is not particularly easy. Make no mistake I am thankful being able to spend time with her its a very different feeling to any I have had before probably because I am not actually having to sell myself in the hope someone will find me attractive. Frankly history would suggest I am useless at that.

Maybe this example sums me up to a degree, its a stupid example but nevertheless. If I got offered a trip to France but could not go to Versailles, I'd probably not go because while I could see other things the point of trip would be lost. In short I will cut off my nose to spite my face to a degree because I want the best experience I can get. 

Back to dating, what I tell myself here is how lucky I am to find someone who accepts me and has a compatible lifestyle, among many other great personality traits. 

It would be true to say I have met many incompatible people but there is also a certain degree of charm to that, a "well it should not work but maybe it could" sort of philosophy, I need to try rid myself of that way of thinking.

Add to all this my very regimented lifestyle.

 

[ZA Dater]

21 hours ago, SingFish said:

Are you depressed? 

I think everyone has certain fantasies or dreams they know are unrealistic but you are very caught up in yours. 

Ok this is an interesting question, sure I cannot jump of a bridge and fly but I do crave the sense I am good at something, the world I live in is devoid of any sort of praise, if anything each day bring more criticism, more drama and its just never enough.

I look around me, some people close to me really live good lives. 

 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

That is a profoundly immature and also tone deaf statement.

Do you think that LoveShack is populated with people who believe that "everyone has the same opportunity" to attract what you refer to as "10's"?   Anybody here believe that there are not people who are more attractive, charming, endowed with alluring features (maybe $ or prestige) etc. than we are?  

This is a freaking lonely hearts club discussion group, bro.  Jason Momoa?  George Clooney?  Brad Pitt?  You guys in here?  

Nope,  Just a bunch of us who have often found ourselves struggling and sometimes completely failing.  You kind of stand out, though, in your obsession with GETTING a "10" and how dissatisfied you are with this state of affairs.  

You can move past this, if you wanted to.

Ok you tell me how?

I am going to try and make this work but some days I just ask myself why I am trying to make it work when it is me who is wholly unsuited, I do not care about being hurt, I do care about her being hurt, years and years of disappointment in life mean that honestly next to nothing hurts me or elicits a great degree of emotion from me.

For example last night I got asked about my feelings, to be honest the best I could come up with was I felt really lucky to have met her and to spend time with her. 

 

[SingFish]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

some people close to me really live good lives. 

What does that look like?

If you are afraid of being happy you will likely self-sabotage or undermine your attempts to live a happy life.

Misery and negativity become habits. Maybe you just need to 'fake it 'til you make it' with happiness, change your thinking first off?

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

the best I could come up with was I felt really lucky to have met her and to spend time with her. 

 

That's a good start for a new relationship. 

Why are you having such conversations though? It's no one else's business except the two of you- you mean your partner asked you or someone else asked you? 

You over-analyze hings to the nth degree you'll never relax and enjoy life.

 

[Trail Blazer]

18 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The bold is exactly what I am trying to do. The second point is maybe true to some extent but for me life would be extremely unsatisfying if I was not aspiring to be something more.

You have to crawl before you walk.  Would you refuse to live in a modest house and instead live on the street until you can afford your dream house?

You refuse to date because you can't land a 10 and you justify doing it because you think it would be "settling for mediocrity".

Your first girlfriend is rarely your last, and dating from a teenager onwards gives you experience and knowldge about intimacy and relationships which ultimately leads to understanding what you want and what makes you happy.

I'm certainly not saying you should find someone you're not attracted to and then aspire to get someone better - or a concerted effort to "monkey branch".

I do think, though, that your whole outlook on relationships is flawed and there's something going on upstairs that's prevented you from engaging in functional relationships.

 

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

You have to crawl before you walk.  Would you refuse to live in a modest house and instead live on the street until you can afford your dream house?

You refuse to date because you can't land a 10 and you justify doing it because you think it would be "settling for mediocrity".

Your first girlfriend is rarely your last, and dating from a teenager onwards gives you experience and knowldge about intimacy and relationships which ultimately leads to understanding what you want and what makes you happy.

I'm certainly not saying you should find someone you're not attracted to and then aspire to get someone better - or a concerted effort to "monkey branch".

I do think, though, that your whole outlook on relationships is flawed and there's something going on upstairs that's prevented you from engaging in functional relationships.

 

As I have said before people are generally intolerant of people who have no relationship experience, I seem to have found the one person who does not seemingly buy into this and for that alone I am very lucky. I wish I had had that dating experience everyone else had but I feel that at nearly 38 I am not really in the position to pick and choose because well the fundamentals are so poor when it comes to experience. 

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, SingFish said:

What does that look like?

If you are afraid of being happy you will likely self-sabotage or undermine your attempts to live a happy life.

Misery and negativity become habits. Maybe you just need to 'fake it 'til you make it' with happiness, change your thinking first off?

That's a good start for a new relationship. 

Why are you having such conversations though? It's no one else's business except the two of you- you mean your partner asked you or someone else asked you? 

You over-analyze hings to the nth degree you'll never relax and enjoy life.

 

I think the first question is quite loaded, I think  all of us like something and aspire to something. Maybe the best way to put it is like this, you save and save for something and that feeling when you finally can actually get that thing. My sense is others and note not everyone do get to experience a sense of life accomplishment which for whatever reason I simply never ever find. Much of my life is spent benefitting others in the hope I may one day benefit too.

She asked me the question so I answered it in the way described. Look she is trying to get more out of me emotionally and I am trying but the walls go up pretty quickly.

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think the first question is quite loaded, I think  all of us like something and aspire to something.

Happiness comes from within. And when it doesn’t, it’s fleeting. While it’s healthy to have goals and work towards them, making the accomplishment of goals your source of happiness will pretty much guarantee unhappiness as there’s always a new goal to accomplish. 
 

If you think dating a beautiful, modelesque woman will make you happy, you’re wrong. I mean it might for a brief moment, but then that feeling will go away. 
 

So when you say you see people with happy lives, I suspect what you see is people with lives you envy and imagine they must be happy. And they might be,  but it won’t be because of the lives they manage to live. It’s because of their attitude. Happiness comes from within and all sorts of people living all sorts of different lives from the very simple to the extremely ornate are happy. 

[bene]

23 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Maybe this example sums me up to a degree, its a stupid example but nevertheless. If I got offered a trip to France but could not go to Versailles, I'd probably not go because while I could see other things the point of trip would be lost. In short I will cut off my nose to spite my face to a degree because I want the best experience I can get. 

Actually this is a good example. When I travel, more often then not the best experiences are quite unexpected. A quaint alley, a nice cafe, a glass of wine in a terrace overlooking the city. The main sights can be exhausting and overcrowded in real life. Yes, you tick off a box but it isn’t necessarily where memories are made. Do you see the analogy here?

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Happiness comes from within. And when it doesn’t, it’s fleeting. While it’s healthy to have goals and work towards them, making the accomplishment of goals your source of happiness will pretty much guarantee unhappiness as there’s always a new goal to accomplish. 
 

If you think dating a beautiful, modelesque woman will make you happy, you’re wrong. I mean it might for a brief moment, but then that feeling will go away. 
 

So when you say you see people with happy lives, I suspect what you see is people with lives you envy and imagine they must be happy. And they might be,  but it won’t be because of the lives they manage to live. It’s because of their attitude. Happiness comes from within and all sorts of people living all sorts of different lives from the very simple to the extremely ornate are happy. 

I guess it depends on what one actually wants which is very subjective, sure I too once wanted kids and a family life but I need to face fact that is not possible, hardly reason to be happy is it? 

It is what it is.

 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, bene said:

Actually this is a good example. When I travel, more often then not the best experiences are quite unexpected. A quaint alley, a nice cafe, a glass of wine in a terrace overlooking the city. The main sights can be exhausting and overcrowded in real life. Yes, you tick off a box but it isn’t necessarily where memories are made. Do you see the analogy here?

Oddly I can think of nothing in 38 odd year which was unexpected and positive. Nearly being stabbed by a sibling one morning, having every single significant birthday ruined by said sibling, sitting alone because I had no friends. Every unexpected thing has been deeply unpleasant and those that were not, they were ultimately disappointing. 

My escape then as now is to imagine something better.

There is a lot to me I do not post on this forum but maybe it would give context. 

[BaileyB]

OP, you have actually found yourself a relationship with a woman and yet, here you are on loveshack debating the same old beliefs you have about yourself and dating. Date I say, the thing that you seem to enjoy most is the debate. And, I wouldn’t even call it debate anymore, it descends at times into another rehashing the same old topics… 

At some point, you need to decide to stop analyzing and start living. The analysis isn’t going to bring you happiness… it simply keeps you busy.

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

My escape then as now is to imagine something better.

You have something better - why is it not enough for you? Happiness is a choice!

[Weezy1973]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I too once wanted kids and a family life but I need to face fact that is not possible, hardly reason to be happy is it? 

It is what it is.

 

Considering I got married and started a family in my mid-40s, not sure why this isn’t possibly for you. Of course I went to therapy as well to sort through my crap, but you seem unwilling. 

[BaileyB]

21 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Considering I got married and started a family in my mid-40s, not sure why this isn’t possibly for you. Of course I went to therapy as well to sort through my crap, but you seem unwilling. 

Especially considering you are currently dating a woman who (by your own account) seems quite interested in having a relationship with you. 

[poppyfields]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

She asked me the question so I answered it in the way described. Look she is trying to get more out of me emotionally and I am trying but the walls go up pretty quickly.

ZA, she may not realize it, but you being you, just as you are right now (emotionally unavailable for lack of a better way of describing) is precisely why she's drawn to you, attracted to you. 

This hasn't been mentioned but I would venture to guess SHE is also emotionally unavailable otherwise she would not be sticking around for as long as she has. 

You're "actively" unavailable, she's "passively" unavailable - they're two sides of the same coin. 

This situation suits her just fine, so don't worry about it.  

That's not to say you should not  keep learning, growing, evolving and improving because you should. 

But stop feeling guilty for "leading her on," you're not. 

She knows exactly whats happening and as I said, this situation suits her perfectly otherwise she wouldn't continue dating you. 

Like attracts like and IF you were to change anything about yourself, become more open, emotional and available for a committed relationship, I can almost guarantee her interest and attraction would diminish.

That's usually how it plays out in these types of relationships.

So enjoy it while it lasts, be happy. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by poppyfields

[SingFish]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Oddly I can think of nothing in 38 odd year which was unexpected and positive. Nearly being stabbed by a sibling one morning, having every single significant birthday ruined by said sibling, sitting alone because I had no friends. Every unexpected thing has been deeply unpleasant and those that were not, they were ultimately disappointing. 

My escape then as now is to imagine something better.

There is a lot to me I do not post on this forum but maybe it would give context. 

I am really sorry you were abused/neglected. These things do affect long term safety/security, getting close to someone triggers all kinds of emotions and anxiety, I think a therapist can help you with this. 

[bene]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Oddly I can think of nothing in 38 odd year which was unexpected and positive. Nearly being stabbed by a sibling one morning, having every single significant birthday ruined by said sibling, sitting alone because I had no friends. Every unexpected thing has been deeply unpleasant and those that were not, they were ultimately disappointing. 

My escape then as now is to imagine something better.

There is a lot to me I do not post on this forum but maybe it would give context. 

I think you would benefit from discussing this with a good therapist because these things will haunt and sabotage you. It’s a good start that you have self awareness to see how traumatic experiences have influenced you but I don’t think your own recourses are enough to heal you.

[basil67]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:06 PM, ZA Dater said:

Ok this is an interesting question, sure I cannot jump of a bridge and fly but I do crave the sense I am good at something, the world I live in is devoid of any sort of praise, if anything each day bring more criticism, more drama and its just never enough.

I look around me, some people close to me really live good lives. 

You're highly articulate and to my recollection, are good at your job.  Do your peers and management seek your skills and knowledge in particular areas?  If the people you work for give bonuses for good work, do you get bonuses?  If so, that's praise.  Most of us don't get overt praise when we are adults.  There is no more "well done John/Mary" - instead we have to look at people's behavior and actions to see if we are valued.  

I find it very hard to believe that you receive criticism and drama on a daily basis.  But if it's true, what criticism and drama did you receive today?  What did you get criticised about two days ago?   This is a serious question.  

On 4/21/2022 at 10:01 PM, ZA Dater said:

I think the thing I need to do is let go of a lot of things, dating ideas and otherwise, which is not particularly easy. Make no mistake I am thankful being able to spend time with her its a very different feeling to any I have had before probably because I am not actually having to sell myself in the hope someone will find me attractive. Frankly history would suggest I am useless at that.

Maybe this example sums me up to a degree, its a stupid example but nevertheless. If I got offered a trip to France but could not go to Versailles, I'd probably not go because while I could see other things the point of trip would be lost. In short I will cut off my nose to spite my face to a degree because I want the best experience I can get. 

Back to dating, what I tell myself here is how lucky I am to find someone who accepts me and has a compatible lifestyle, among many other great personality traits. 

It would be true to say I have met many incompatible people but there is also a certain degree of charm to that, a "well it should not work but maybe it could" sort of philosophy, I need to try rid myself of that way of thinking.

Add to all this my very regimented lifestyle.

As you've just discovered, the idea that one has to sell themselves to be found attractive is a fallacy.  This is why it doesn't work.

Now, I do understand having a person who in theory ticks all the boxes but for some reason doesn't attract us sexually.  It's a primal thing.  But the trip to France thing...these are thoughts you should be able to rationalise.  So when you say 'no' to the trip, do you then see photos of everyone having a great time and regret your choice?  

I asked before how she sees the relationship with you.  Does she see you as a boyfriend or as a companion?  That she's been around for so long without sex (that you've mentioned) does indicate that that she may see you as a companion.

[NuevoYorko]

On 4/21/2022 at 5:01 AM, ZA Dater said:

 

Maybe this example sums me up to a degree, its a stupid example but nevertheless. If I got offered a trip to France but could not go to Versailles, I'd probably not go because while I could see other things the point of trip would be lost. In short I will cut off my nose to spite my face to a degree because I want the best experience I can get. 

 

Ok.  Here is a good example of how your preferred approach to everything being on a strictly linear scale is messed up.

First,  a caveat:  If you are interested in Versailles, but that's  the only thing in France that interests you,  it makes sense to not go to that country if Versailles is off the table.   No argument from me. 

But, Versailles does not objectively represent THE BEST of France.   And, is THE BEST experience you can get possibly staying home and bemoaning your fate on your computer for many hours a day?   Maybe a BETTER experience than that would be to go to France and do stuff that's good in France.  Of course, you'd have to be open to experiencing what was there; rather than spending your time being sour about not being in Versailles.  

If you've never  been to France, how do you even know? 

 

 

[Weezy1973]

One thing is for certain @ZA Dater. Since you started seeing this woman, you post on here much less frequently. I think that’s probably a good sign.