Baby and break up

[Jay125]

Hi guys 

I really need some advice. I broke up with my ex around 3 months ago. We met in 2020 and had a remarkable start, the best ever for me. She is early 30s and I am late 30s. I was going through a divorce but was long separated and amicably. I had worried ofcourse though and my ex wife was living in my house so I moved in with my parents so had financial worries and legal concerns but other than that I felt fine to move in to a relationship. My partner was very in to me like no one has ever been and I was quickly welcomed to her family. Maybe these are red flags. But at the time I was smitten. We had a great passionate romance and she moved me in quickly and we decided to get pregnant. I wanted a child and she certainly did and I had never felt so in love (I had always been careful before and never trusted anyone with this responsibility). Our only child for both of us 

 

She fell pregnant straight away and we were happy. However, I found myself doing more and more. I took on all the chores, worked full time and cared for the pets she had etc. I wanted to help. I got most of the shopping, paid her a good rent,  and I found the passion fell away a bit but she was pregnant so that’s ok. I was extremely tired and she became a little more possessive. We were always doing stuff with her family etc but less so with mine. As I lived about 35 miles away from her home, I still had to work in my old job do had a long commute also. We started to argue more and if I got angry about something I felt was an injustice, she would banish me from the house for up to 2 weeks at a time with relatively few messages, leaving me in the dark as to whether we will still on or not. I would bet and plead and eventually she would let me back but I had to change, be consistent in her words and not get angry. 
This happened 4 times in total across 6 months. My friends and family were horrified. But I loved her and she was pregnant with my child. I wanted to go back. She got angry with me very early on as I stayed at my parents a couple of nights to get rest and she said most of her friends would dump their boyfriends die that. 

she told her parents about each argument and it made it awkward for me. I started to try and avoid seeing them. Her dad said she would be better off alone and she told me that, the week before she gave birth. I didn’t know if I would be at the birth or not until a day before baby came and I was invited back after the fourth and final exile. She said she would give me one chance to be a father basically. I was in turmoil by now as we had a new baby, she had a c section and her parents were against me though they didn’t make it obvious. I left my job and got one her way. I looked after my partner and did everything including night feeds etc and tried to help but I was worried I would be kicked out at some point so I had anxiety and got a counsellor for myself to help.  I was worried I had anger issues or something. But it was stressful. 
 

I found a message from her father saying I lacked empathy and the ability to be a good dad basically as I didn’t take baby to hospital one night as she had a cold and I thought it was too dangerous with Covid etc to take her in. There were no red flags (I am medically trained)

I saw the message and broke down and my ex got it out of me eventually and I told her I’d seen this message! I got upset with her father and called him some names which I regret and apologised for. I said I needed to speak to them and if this isn’t sorted it will be hard to continue. She said whatever is best and makes everyone happy!!! We argued one night as I felt destroyed and she hadn’t shown me any affection or love for a long time and I was utterly knackered as I had been doing everything for a long time and working etc. I felt unloved and under threat away from my home and lost. I loved my baby but ofocurse being a first time parent found it hard. So a lot to deal with. I felt she just wouldn’t hear me and my side and the reason for the arguments was righteous and in context of issues we had. I don’t always articulate well though. My weakness. She is more a stonewalling type whereas I het upset/irritated etc 

she kicked me out in the early hours, when baby was 6 weeks old. I wrongly went nc for 10 days. She had full support with the baby and has said I wasn’t needed many times so I knew she would be ok and I was contactable but as usual, she didn’t reach out either. I called by chance and the baby was ill and on second night in hospital and she hasn’t told me saying she thought I didn’t care. I was so upset and she blamed me for not going to hospital but I wasn’t told I could! My parents haven’t met our baby yet 

since then I tried to get her back. She has said I am not needed, she doesn’t need a dad, called me a dick, emotionally immature and has let me visit only weekly which has only just started in the last few weeks after what she described as horrible initial visits (they weren’t, no shouting etc, I was devestated and wanted her back, my family). I am in bits on visits as I still love my ex I feel and I adore my baby and I have to leave her behind. My ex lacks all empathy on visits and is never sad. I find visits so painful. I tried to respect space as she didn’t seem to want me involved but she recently complained she is angry I don’t text more and says I don’t care. This kills me. I texted more often since then as she said I could and I want to. They are still simple texts but it’s got better lately and I’ve asked for as much involvement as possible. My ex suggested we could go on day trips but once again is thinking about it now so leaving me hanging like in the relationship. If I pull away she breadcrumbs a bit. It is killing me and each day is so hard 

I still want to leave it on the table to reconcile one day if we can sort this as we have a 5 month old and I love them both. She is not interested at the moment and was giving mixed signals before. I pay above and beyond as I choose too and I buy things for baby where I can. She has in the last week or two started to ask a bit morefor me to get stuff as I have begged to help and support them. Before she took the money but said didn’t want it or what can you do to help etc 

All Whilst respecting her space and boundaries. She says she doesn’t want to date anyone and is happy alone with baby and friends and family. She says things like if you really mean you want to help then you can get this etc. I don’t get it. I’ve made it clear I want help 

this feels like a long game for want of a better word. I’ve been lovely, dropped the talking about relationship stuff but said I love them both. I am concentrating on trying to get co parenting closely sorted first and foremost. I don’t want legal involvement yet as I don’t want to hurt my ex and disrupt her mothering alone which is hard. So I am being just kind and loving and have bought Mother’s Day gifts with meaning etc around out little girl 

 

i saw my girls first smile On Facebook. A lot isn’t shared with me. She covers social media with the baby and makes it clear I am not in the picture. This hursts but I feel it is toxic to block her 

what do I do guys? How do I play this? I am struggling so much 

sorry it’s so long 

[glows]

You do need to look into your rights as a father as neither of you are making any headway with coparenting. Your ex seems to be manipulating you as she knows exactly what you want which means you’ll do anything to hang in limbo and give until you can’t anymore. 

You found yourself in a very tough situation and made a series of choices that have rendered you still married to an ex-wife who is living in your marital home, homeless or living with your parents, broken up from this past relationship and estranged from your daughter. 

I think you’ve tried to push aside the legalities of things for awhile including not divorcing your ex-wife. I’d speak with a lawyer at this point and stop giving money to your ex girlfriend. Use the funds to hire a lawyer who’ll give you the legal advice you need to end your marriage and split up your portion of marital assets that belong to you and be a father and spend time with your daughter. At this rate you will be on the streets without help from your parents and never having known your daughter. Please don’t waste these precious years.

[Jay125]

6 hours ago, glows said:

You do need to look into your rights as a father as neither of you are making any headway with coparenting. Your ex seems to be manipulating you as she knows exactly what you want which means you’ll do anything to hang in limbo and give until you can’t anymore. 

You found yourself in a very tough situation and made a series of choices that have rendered you still married to an ex-wife who is living in your marital home, homeless or living with your parents, broken up from this past relationship and estranged from your daughter. 

I think you’ve tried to push aside the legalities of things for awhile including not divorcing your ex-wife. I’d speak with a lawyer at this point and stop giving money to your ex girlfriend. Use the funds to hire a lawyer who’ll give you the legal advice you need to end your marriage and split up your portion of marital assets that belong to you and be a father and spend time with your daughter. At this rate you will be on the streets without help from your parents and never having known your daughter. Please don’t waste these precious years.

Hi and thank you for taking the time to reply to my rambling. My divorce is now sorted and the house sold, my ex wife has been kind and amicable. I haven’t had loads of relationships despite divorce then a baby with another person (it looks like I have lol). I go in wanting the long haul but I’ve made poor choices. My concerns now are trying to see my baby and be kind and compassionate to my ex as she is still the mum and I do care and she is a good mum. I see you have pointed out manipulation, this is something my counsellor and friends say is a big issue with my ex and the silent exiles in the relationship fitted with that. Perhaps leading to my frustrations. I am trying to walk an impossible tight rope now. It’s pain like never before 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Jay125 said:

My divorce is now sorted and the house sold, my ex wife has been kind and amicable. My concerns now are trying to see my baby  

Sorry this is happening. It seems like way too much way too soon and all while in the throes of your divorce.

All you can do is apply to the courts for a court ordered custody and visitation schedule.

You also need to pay child support for the child. It's not negotiable with the child's mother, it's the child's right.

The relationship itself seems volatile and toxic. She doesn't have to let you live in her house but with a court order, she does have to let you have access to the child.

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Jay125 said:

she is a good mum.

No, she isn't.  She prevents her baby from spending time with her own father. That is not what "good mums" do. Good mothers don't needlessly isolate and alienate their children from their parent. You have your blinders on about how damaging this is to the child. 

Unforuantely, you rushed into a relationship and parenthood with someone you didn't know very well, who turned out to be emotionally abusive and volatile. This woman clearly wanted a baby more than she wanted you, and you need a lawyer now. 

She doesn't get to dictate the terms of visitation. Only a court can do that. You need to forget the idea of having a relationship with her (it's not going to happen) and start getting your legal ducks in the row for the best interest of your baby. Your little one deserves at least one stable parent who is looking out for her best interests, and you can be that parent. Her mom is failing at it. 

[Jay125]

35 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. It seems like way too much way too soon and all while in the throes of your divorce.

All you can do is apply to the courts for a court ordered custody and visitation schedule.

You also need to pay child support for the child. It's not negotiable with the child's mother, it's the child's right.

The relationship itself seems volatile and toxic. She doesn't have to let you live in her house but with a court order, she does have to let you have access to the child.

Thank you. I am dreading doing this but it’s coming isn’t it, you are right 

with payments, there is no formal agreement in place but I pay well above what is expected as I want to and can at the moment. I offer to help all the time and she asked me to get some bits the other day for baby which I grabbed as a nice opportunity to do something for my little girl. Once again, guns are falling largely silent. She expects me to message about baby and does not offer anything up. She suggested day trios together which I jumped at recently but once again she is thinking about it. I believe your advice is sadly very good! Thank you so much for replying and reading 

 

 

[Jay125]

8 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

No, she isn't.  She prevents her baby from spending time with her own father. That is not what "good mums" do. Good mothers don't needlessly isolate and alienate their children from their parent. You have your blinders on about how damaging this is to the child. 

Unforuantely, you rushed into a relationship and parenthood with someone you didn't know very well, who turned out to be emotionally abusive and volatile. This woman clearly wanted a baby more than she wanted you, and you need a lawyer now. 

She doesn't get to dictate the terms of visitation. Only a court can do that. You need to forget the idea of having a relationship with her (it's not going to happen) and start getting your legal ducks in the row for the best interest of your baby. Your little one deserves at least one stable parent who is looking out for her best interests, and you can be that parent. Her mom is failing at it. 

Thank you for your reply and reading my post. I appreciate it 

your advice is much appreciated. I have blamed myself for all this but I am starting to see the wood for the trees and that there is a high degree of manipulation and toxic control going on. I own the decision I made to have a baby and I did rush, this person may well be a narcissit and a particularly nasty one. This is what some have said. I just can’t bring myself anymore to argue. She is looking after my baby and at least in that regard doing a good job so I am trying to show care and compassion and not be selfish as she has said to me. She keeps me on a thread which is the part that is horrible and has no empathy. I am trying to tread so carefully here. I think the legal route is the only way. She suggested day trips recently all 3 of us and I am going to see how that unfolds. We are going for lunch with baby next week. But the suffering in between of so little information and so little interaction is killing me slowly. I am broken and I can’t believe this has happened. 

[SingFish]

1 hour ago, Jay125 said:

with payments, there is no formal agreement in place but I pay well above what is expected as I want to and can at the moment. I offer to help all the time and she asked me to get some bits the other day for baby

Keep a paper trail of proof ready for any court stuff.

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Jay125 said:

She keeps me on a thread which is the part that is horrible and has no empathy. I am trying to tread so carefully here. I think the legal route is the only way.

At this point, yes, it is. 

She wanted to have a baby and I don't believe she ever had any serious intention of maintaining a relationship with you. It was the baby she was after, not you. She has bullied you, manipulated you, and used her own baby as a pawn. That is reprehesible. 

Start looking around today for a reputable family law attorney who can advise you. Call them as soon as their office opens on Monday morning. Don't tell her you are speaking to a lawyer. Simply start getting the information you need to protect your own rights as the baby's father, and proceed according to the law. 

[glows]

4 hours ago, Jay125 said:

Hi and thank you for taking the time to reply to my rambling. My divorce is now sorted and the house sold, my ex wife has been kind and amicable. I haven’t had loads of relationships despite divorce then a baby with another person (it looks like I have lol). I go in wanting the long haul but I’ve made poor choices. My concerns now are trying to see my baby and be kind and compassionate to my ex as she is still the mum and I do care and she is a good mum. I see you have pointed out manipulation, this is something my counsellor and friends say is a big issue with my ex and the silent exiles in the relationship fitted with that. Perhaps leading to my frustrations. I am trying to walk an impossible tight rope now. It’s pain like never before 

You’re in pain and that’s why you’re easily manipulated. Please speak with a lawyer in private and stop handing out more money to your ex than you can afford. You’ve tried doing this your way and it’s not working so do something else even if it means the courts involvement.

[Jay125]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

At this point, yes, it is. 

She wanted to have a baby and I don't believe she ever had any serious intention of maintaining a relationship with you. It was the baby she was after, not you. She has bullied you, manipulated you, and used her own baby as a pawn. That is reprehesible. 

Start looking around today for a reputable family law attorney who can advise you. Call them as soon as their office opens on Monday morning. Don't tell her you are speaking to a lawyer. Simply start getting the information you need to protect your own rights as the baby's father, and proceed according to the law. 

Thank you so much, I will. I need to work on myself too, just a state now. And clearly I am easily influenced and have issues with self esteem. I still regret my errors but they shouldn’t have lead to a break up of this. This is all just horrible. Thank you again for your helpful and supportive words 

[Jay125]

1 hour ago, glows said:

You’re in pain and that’s why you’re easily manipulated. Please speak with a lawyer in private and stop handing out more money to your ex than you can afford. You’ve tried doing this your way and it’s not working so do something else even if it means the courts involvement.

Thank you, you are right 

[Jay125]

2 hours ago, SingFish said:

Keep a paper trail of proof ready for any court stuff.

Thank you. Everything is electronic so a good audit trail plus all the messages between us 

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, Jay125 said:

Everything is electronic so a good audit trail plus all the messages between us 

 All you need to to is contact the courts and apply for whatever custody and visitation rights you have. There's nothing to prove, except that you are the father. You will be required to support the child. That is also determined by the courts.

Nothing about custody/child support is retroactive. Once you are granted a visitation/custody schedule from the courts you will see your child according to that. Once a  child support order is issued you will have that amount to pay until the child is 18.

[Jay125]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

 All you need to to is contact the courts and apply for whatever custody and visitation rights you have. There's nothing to prove, except that you are the father. You will be required to support the child. That is also determined by the courts.

Nothing about custody/child support is retroactive. Once you are granted a visitation/custody schedule from the courts you will see your child according to that. Once a  child support order is issued you will have that amount to pay until the child is 18.

Thank you 🙏 

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Jay125 said:

I still regret my errors but they shouldn’t have lead to a break up of this.

What you're still not really grasping is that this was likely always doomed, OP. 

She's too unstable and erratic for the relationship you seek. So, even if you were the perfect gentleman, this  almost certainly would have crashed and burned anyway. 

[Jay125]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What you're still not really grasping is that this was likely always doomed, OP. 

She's too unstable and erratic for the relationship you seek. So, even if you were the perfect gentleman, this  almost certainly would have crashed and burned anyway. 

Thank you so much for this. I’ve spent the last weeks blaming myself for this nightmare and she has certainly made it clear it is my fault in her eyes. I’ve tried to get her to see the other side and I said she had some narcissitic traits (lack of empathy etc) to which she was extremely angry. My crimes were being moody at times and creating some arguments/catty comments,  but this was because I couldn’t understand why the months of affection were going and I seemed to be unimportant, not to mention the long banishments which caused me to miss scans of baby etc. I didn’t feel loved at all or cared about in the end and I was busting a gut running the house, a job, then a baby. She never really did anything for me at the end and had a long mat leave which is still ongoing so could have done a bit. She said she wanted a family (us 3 together) and took me back on this premise but ultimately she couldn’t have done or she would be nicer now and this would be easier and she would reach out to try once and for all to repair it as baby is so young. She seems at ease with it. I’ve been exemplary recently and offered everything, stopped any arguing, bitterness etc, but she just doesn’t seem to care and won’t let me in anytime soon. She says I need to stop being ‘woe is me’. Then she will get angry if I don’t contact for a day or two but it hurts to do so just to get a couple lines of text back. What’s the point, I’m missing it all. She looks happy and is enjoying our baby. She seems ignorant of the the damage this will do to baby one day and once baby is aware, she will miss her dad and that doesn’t seem to register. Not to mention all the other mess that can come with separation. I am a sensible and professional guy, I never dreamt this would happen to me. 
So again, your words and particularly the quote above are going to really help me and will become daily chants for me. I am consumed with guilt and loss. 

[glows]

20 hours ago, Jay125 said:

Thank you so much for this. I’ve spent the last weeks blaming myself for this nightmare and she has certainly made it clear it is my fault in her eyes. I’ve tried to get her to see the other side and I said she had some narcissitic traits (lack of empathy etc) to which she was extremely angry. My crimes were being moody at times and creating some arguments/catty comments,  but this was because I couldn’t understand why the months of affection were going and I seemed to be unimportant, not to mention the long banishments which caused me to miss scans of baby etc. I didn’t feel loved at all or cared about in the end and I was busting a gut running the house, a job, then a baby. She never really did anything for me at the end and had a long mat leave which is still ongoing so could have done a bit. She said she wanted a family (us 3 together) and took me back on this premise but ultimately she couldn’t have done or she would be nicer now and this would be easier and she would reach out to try once and for all to repair it as baby is so young. She seems at ease with it. I’ve been exemplary recently and offered everything, stopped any arguing, bitterness etc, but she just doesn’t seem to care and won’t let me in anytime soon. She says I need to stop being ‘woe is me’. Then she will get angry if I don’t contact for a day or two but it hurts to do so just to get a couple lines of text back. What’s the point, I’m missing it all. She looks happy and is enjoying our baby. She seems ignorant of the the damage this will do to baby one day and once baby is aware, she will miss her dad and that doesn’t seem to register. Not to mention all the other mess that can come with separation. I am a sensible and professional guy, I never dreamt this would happen to me. 
So again, your words and particularly the quote above are going to really help me and will become daily chants for me. I am consumed with guilt and loss. 

You're already at odds with her and are trying to work out a schedule or times to see your child. Calling your ex girlfriend or mother of your child narcissistic or accusing her of having narcissistic traits is counterproductive. No one would likely react to that under the best of circumstances and this is some of the worst circumstances to be saying this. Second, if she really is narcissistic just stop. Stop giving her the attention she needs. You're doing everything that you shouldn't be doing around a narcissist. The concern right now is to establish your rights as a father, custody and proper child support. 

[Jay125]

2 hours ago, glows said:

You're already at odds with her and are trying to work out a schedule or times to see your child. Calling your ex girlfriend or mother of your child narcissistic or accusing her of having narcissistic traits is counterproductive. No one would likely react to that under the best of circumstances and this is some of the worst circumstances to be saying this. Second, if she really is narcissistic just stop. Stop giving her the attention she needs. You're doing everything that you shouldn't be doing around a narcissist. The concern right now is to establish your rights as a father, custody and proper child support. 

I agree. It is the one major error I’ve made post break up. I have since been very kind, compassionate, respectful and patient. I have been supportive where I can be and appreciative as outlined above. It was a heat of the moment expression of my feelings in an argument. I was then told I couldn’t see baby until after new year (it was late December) so I paid. I can’t win any argument with her and I just don’t have it in me now to fight, I just don’t want negativity at all. The last few visits have been nice, I am getting a little bit more in messages (pictures) and she has said day trips together are possible. 
Therefore I am not going to get annoyed and will support but I will take advice on here and get legal advice at this stage. Thank you for your helpful worlds and support ❤️ It’s just the most horrendous time at the moment 

[glows]

3 minutes ago, Jay125 said:

I agree. It is the one major error I’ve made post break up. I have since been very kind, compassionate, respectful and patient. I have been supportive where I can be and appreciative as outlined above. It was a heat of the moment expression of my feelings in an argument. I was then told I couldn’t see baby until after new year (it was late December) so I paid. I can’t win any argument with her and I just don’t have it in me now to fight, I just don’t want negativity at all. The last few visits have been nice, I am getting a little bit more in messages (pictures) and she has said day trips together are possible. 
Therefore I am not going to get annoyed and will support but I will take advice on here and get legal advice at this stage. Thank you for your helpful worlds and support ❤️ It’s just the most horrendous time at the moment 

Take care and glad to hear this. Keep us posted.

[Jay125]

2 hours ago, glows said:

Take care and glad to hear this. Keep us posted.

Will do thanks 

just advice for now to equip me, as I want to give a bit more time 

but I will be ready 

[Jay125]

Hi all. Just thought I would update you as you have all been so kind to reply and these replies have really helped me. I’ve never felt this hurt or sad before and I feel at a real crossroads 

I have met my ex and baby a couple of times in last 12 days . One because I had been offering help so ex asked me to pick up a few bits which I did and stayed in the house briefly (so I am allowed in afterall) and next time was lunch last week. It went well. We spoke about relationship and she was a little warmer than before. Wanted to know what I was doing in spare time but still said she wouldn’t mind if I moved on. But then did not rubbish the idea of reconciliation like before by saying no chance etc, so much warmer than last time but still cold. Said she doesn’t think she can forgive me for some of the things I said (maybe when I called her father names after I saw his awful text). I said I still cared and would like to repair it but I know she is awful To me  in my heart and depriving baby of dad contact. She says it happens all the time when couples break up, so she lacks insight in to our babies needs I think where I am concerned. I’ve offered help all the time, and bought teething things for baby and clothes last week. Plus Mother’s Day stuff from our daughter. She Said I could give her less money than I do but don’t know if just being polite. Texts are daily and she replies but I always have to initiate. And replies are short and she isn’t yet taking my help to look after baby. Asking for my advice though here and there. Posts more on fb than sends me, baby photo wise.  Bit better than before but then I am playing ball and being a doormat completely. I don’t want to stress her out or the baby. 
re the day trips she mentioned recently, I brought this up again and she said baby steps needed so is not ready yet. I’ve asked when next visit can be and still no confirmation. Practically begged 

she says it’s still my fault about all this and that it’ll happen again etc (I’ll get Cross or be inconsistent) there is no regard for the other side of things. I have been nothing but supportive in all this since as it is my desire to be so. 

I agree this is serious control and manipulation as said above and unhinged behaviour from ex 

so I have got legal advice as advised and I will action if this doesn’t improve shortly 

 

what do you think? 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Jay125

[spiritedaway2003]

You are on the right page. There doesn’t seem to be a lot to salvage with your relationship based on how cold and conditional it appears to be.  You still have custody rights as a parent.  Pursue that legal counsel if things don’t improve.  She does not have the right to keep you from seeing your own child. Good luck.  

[Acacia98]

2 hours ago, Jay125 said:

So I have got legal advice as advised and I will action if this doesn’t improve shortly. 

This is the right thing to do. 

The other bit of advice I'd give you: Set aside any illusions that you can reconcile with your ex, and look up "going gray rock." You need to learn to do that if you have to interact with your ex in the long term. Do this for the kid. The kid deserves to have at least one parent who is emotionally healthy and is not trapped in an abusive relationship.

[Jay125]

13 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

This is the right thing to do. 

The other bit of advice I'd give you: Set aside any illusions that you can reconcile with your ex, and look up "going gray rock." You need to learn to do that if you have to interact with your ex in the long term. Do this for the kid. The kid deserves to have at least one parent who is emotionally healthy and is not trapped in an abusive relationship.

Thanks for that. I’ll look that term up 

people on here have said it sounds like abuse I have had as have friends and family and I feel quite bonded to this person so I think it has been or is at the moment. I have counselling which is helping now too. I didn’t see ot myself until after and I spoke to others about what she was doing and how she is 

I will be that parent who is stable that is my goal. She is great with baby and cares well for her but there is an issue if you want to just go it alone so stoically and block the father out I guess? And breadcrumb