I still don't get it.

[pepperbird2]

After reading many threads on where as well as on other sites, I am still brought back to the same question.


How can someone cheat on their spouse/relationship partner? How can they see them ,day after day, and not have guilt eat them up inside? Even if their husband/wife is terrible, how can they engage in dishonesty over an extended period of time?

I’m not trying to be judgmental-I just don’t understand it. 

[central]

It's good that you don't understand it, since that means you'd be very unlikely to do this to any partner of yours.  However, human nature being what it is, a huge number of people manage to cheat without remorse, and many (if not most) get away with it.  Some may experience guilt, but the rewards they experience can outweigh it so they do it anyway.

[vla1120]

That's a loaded question!

From my perspective (having been cheated on a number of times in my 32-year-marriage, but always trying to keep my marriage intact), I think the wayward spouse probably justifies it by telling themselves the same thing they tell their affair partner. "My wife/husband doesn't care about me. We don't sleep together. He/she is emotionally abusive to me. I've never had the connection with him/her that I have with you." etc., etc., etc.  In my case, my husband said I treated him like a piece of furniture, so he sought affirmation elsewhere. Of course, my side of the story was quite different. 

As far as why it doesn't eat them up inside, I guess everyone has a differing degree of a moral compass. Some people would never cheat on their taxes, others do it yearly with no thought. Two friends might be at the supermarket and see an elderly woman drop a $20 in the parking lot. One friend might pick it up with the intent to keep it. The other might snatch it out of her and return it to the woman. The woman who might have kept the $20 could believe herself a good christian because she attends church every Sunday. We tend to convince ourselves that our own moral compass, whatever it may be, is acceptable.

Edited March 8, 2022 by vla1120

[Alpacalia]

It's better that you don't understand.

A person may place personal pleasure above intimacy or love with their partner.

My assumption is that they compartmentalize guilt out of self-gratification over the well-being of their partners.

It takes only a short time for a relationship to die if each party takes the other for granted.

The hope is that you never get cheated on.

Please don't let anyone cheat you. Keep your eyes open and don't take your heart to the first person who looks at you without grimacing. Don't become enamored with the first person who smiles at you. Looking at this person's life is more important than the feel-goods.

The most important thing is to be ready to let them go. 

A relationship can only be as strong as the willingness of each individual to leave it. 

[chillii]

Some spouses would deserve it though nonetheless . Sounds rough l know but believe me and not even ever having been a cheater myself but man, l've seen couples where the way one of them acts, l would not feel one damn thing cheating on her or him if it was me. But why don't they just be honest and leave the marriage or relationship first then , l don't know.

But under normal situations though nah, l can't understand how someone could do it either.

 

[MilesLeftToGo]

6 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

After reading many threads on where as well as on other sites, I am still brought back to the same question.


How can someone cheat on their spouse/relationship partner? How can they see them ,day after day, and not have guilt eat them up inside? Even if their husband/wife is terrible, how can they engage in dishonesty over an extended period of time?

I’m not trying to be judgmental-I just don’t understand it. 

I agree with you. I do not understand it either, like especially when you are still telling the person you are in the relationship with that you love them. That is what gets me is how can you have these intimate moments and feelings and expressing these emotions and feelings yet they are cheating? It is so weird and bizarre. It is also my greatest fear is being cheated on. Makes me extremely insecure in a lot of situations that I do not feel comfortable about because I am so afraid of being cheated on. Its like my phobia.

[Agentra]

Selfishness. 

[DKT3]

I believe its for different reasons that they are able to justify it, ranging from wrong but I get it, to down right horrible. 

Example, not everyone places the same value or importance on the sexual acts. Truth is some simply view sex as an activity you share with someone and it doesn't go deeper than that.  Those are usually is not big deal, get over it types. Some believe they won't hurt the spouse because they are smarter and will never get caught. 

I recall some time ago we had a WW who stayed married to a horrible BH for far too long and cheated on him. This isn't actually as common as many WWs would have you believe. Then there was a WH who had sex with his wife a handful of times over a decade...the wife was actually the posters. Again not as common as WHs would have you believe.  Wrong but you can get it.

The horrible, we actually see here very often. I'm the perfect spouse,  I'm flawless and my horrible BS does nothing right, its all there fault and then they have the nerve to be upset because I've met the perfect person that gets me. 

All cheaters and cheating is not equal,  I think most cheaters do suffer a great deal of guilt and shame, some sooner then others. 

[Johnjohnson2017]

1 hour ago, DKT3 said:

I believe its for different reasons that they are able to justify it, ranging from wrong but I get it, to down right horrible. 

Example, not everyone places the same value or importance on the sexual acts. Truth is some simply view sex as an activity you share with someone and it doesn't go deeper than that.  Those are usually is not big deal, get over it types. Some believe they won't hurt the spouse because they are smarter and will never get caught. 

I recall some time ago we had a WW who stayed married to a horrible BH for far too long and cheated on him. This isn't actually as common as many WWs would have you believe. Then there was a WH who had sex with his wife a handful of times over a decade...the wife was actually the posters. Again not as common as WHs would have you believe.  Wrong but you can get it.

The horrible, we actually see here very often. I'm the perfect spouse,  I'm flawless and my horrible BS does nothing right, its all there fault and then they have the nerve to be upset because I've met the perfect person that gets me. 

All cheaters and cheating is not equal,  I think most cheaters do suffer a great deal of guilt and shame, some sooner then others. 

WW = Wonder Woman?

BH= Bounty Hunter?

Sorry I don't understand what WW WH BH stand for.

[mark clemson]

^^ mouse over the acronyms and it will show you, but it's wayward wife and betrayed husband.

[mark clemson]

On 3/8/2022 at 9:24 AM, pepperbird2 said:

I’m not trying to be judgmental-I just don’t understand it. 

Since every "cheater" is different, just like every BS is different, have you discussed with your husband his specific motivations? People can generalize all they like, but that would seem to be the most direct and relevant response. Since people change over time, the answers he gives may pertain more to "who he was back then" but nonetheless.

I do think it's true that some folks see it as a much bigger deal than others, just as some people see fur, eating meat, killing whales, possessing firearms, not paying taxes, etc, etc as much bigger deals than others. Monogamy is simply not a true human universal, particularly for "top-tier" males, where it is sometimes generally acknowledged and even expected (depending on the specific culture) but really even more generally than that.

Edited March 9, 2022 by mark clemson

[SingFish]

There's pressure on people to get married, pressure to have kids, but these things aren't for everyone in an era when personal freedom and autonomy have become so important. It would be better to explore ethical non-monogamy before committing for life to one person I think.

[understand50]

One of the hardest things to come to terms with, especially, if you reconcile, to seeing clearly that they cheated because they wanted to. The why can be many different reasons, but the actual act was from free will.  Now, I will concede, that some can get drunk or have other issues that rob them of free will, but for the topic of this thread, the cheating is done from free will.  What is hard, at least was for me, was knowing she decided to do this, and even though we were, and still are married, she went ahead with it. The why was, I assume the usual crap, she has never really explained, and she, in truth may not really know her self.   Point is, it came down to she wanted to cheat, and then did. 

My two cents.

[Pumpernickel]

On 3/8/2022 at 12:24 PM, pepperbird2 said:

How can someone cheat on their spouse/relationship partner? How can they see them ,day after day, and not have guilt eat them up inside? Even if their husband/wife is terrible, how can they engage in dishonesty over an extended period of time?

Aside from the morals, I have never been able to wrap my head around how married people who engage in affairs deal with the logistics involved. I have never understood this. All the planning, the time away from the spouse/family, the money spent – all that stuff has to be explained at home somehow. I would feel extremely stressed. I wouldn't be able to sleep and function. 

[Els]

Cheating is sadly very common in cultures where divorce is highly stigmatized. In some cases the couples are so far gone that the other person is just a platonic roommate that they hate but can't leave. I don't think either person in these cases is particularly surprised that their partner is cheating, as they aren't even really in a relationship anymore except legally. (Why don't they discuss opening the marriage up? Who knows - probably same as the answer to "why is divorce stigmatized so much?")

I agree that couples in such situations should just split up instead so that they're both free to pursue their own relationships. It's the honest, merciful, right thing to do.

[RebeccaR]

5 hours ago, Pumpernickel said:

Aside from the morals, I have never been able to wrap my head around how married people who engage in affairs deal with the logistics involved. I have never understood this. All the planning, the time away from the spouse/family, the money spent – all that stuff has to be explained at home somehow. I would feel extremely stressed. I wouldn't be able to sleep and function. 

In many cases, I assume little time is spent physically together relative to the communication time and the headspace involved, which can be all-encompassing.

[Starswillshine]

It comes down to an internal flaw, and society has been too quick to blame external factors which then lets the cheater off the hook. Too many people look for external validation for self worth, and there is a type of strength that many do not possess in turning down the immediate gratification for the larger picture. When we start viewing cheaters for what they are, weak and flawed, and stop trying to put blame on other factors than self, we might be able to hold them accountable to get the help they need to be fully fulfilled in their self. But we glamorize affairs (even the stupid ro-coms are filled with city girl engaged to rich man goes home for Christmas and falls in love with the farm boy) and new love versus the hum drum of the hard work it takes to have a long term marriage and raise a family and have careers. IMO, the beauty of life comes from that and we lost sight of that (or rather, we never truly had sight of it). 

[Prudence V]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:24 PM, pepperbird2 said:

How can someone cheat on their spouse/relationship partner? How can they see them ,day after day, and not have guilt eat them up inside? Even if their husband/wife is terrible, how can they engage in dishonesty over an extended period of time?

I’m guessing the answers to this are as many and varied as the unfaithful themselves, but for argument’s sake, let’s ignore the whole category of people who could be classified as cads, blunders, scoundrels and other bad’uns, since they are probably easiest to understand and not the intended focus of the question. Which, I’m guessing, is on people who consider themselves decent, whose spouses would have (prior to the infidelity) considered them decent, whose friends, family, colleagues and associates consider them decent. The ones who leave you wondering why, or how.

I’ll take each question in turn. 
 

On 3/8/2022 at 5:24 PM, pepperbird2 said:

How can someone cheat on their spouse/relationship partner?

In assembling a case against an accused, prosecutors typically look for three aspects: means, motive, and opportunity. Someone who is fundamentally (regarded as) decent will clearly have greater means here than someone who is looked on with suspicion - assuming the “means” here is a willing participant. The nice guy in the office, the pleasant charming friend, the respectable associate, is far more likely to evoke openness and warmth than someone that is regarded as a user. Motive can range from intrinsic (personal, emotional, something relating the person themselves, for example a MLC) to extrinsic factors (relationship issues, or something external that unsettles their security like job loss or the death of a parent), or a combination. It’s not necessarily that these factors warrant a motive in themselves, but more that they unsettle the person who looks for a remedy to secure what has been unsettled, whether intrinsic (eg identity) or extrinsic (eg relationship). Opportunity usually arises or is created in spaces in the R, eg when one spouse is focused on kids, or during the workday, or when away from home, but it can be carved out anywhere if the person really wants to. 
 

On 3/8/2022 at 5:24 PM, pepperbird2 said:

How can they see them ,day after day, and not have guilt eat them up inside?

This question assumes that they’re not eaten up by guilt. Many probably are, but manage it (at least over the short term) through compartmentalising, or by dehumanising the spouse (in the way that soldiers do to enemy combatants, in order to be able to wage war) and projecting doom onto the relationship. If you seek - and find - evidence that the marriage is dead, that your spouse no longer loves you, it is far easier than if you’re watching them pour their heart into the relationship. 
 

On 3/8/2022 at 5:24 PM, pepperbird2 said:

Even if their husband/wife is terrible, how can they engage in dishonesty over an extended period of time?

“Dishonesty” is probably viewed in relative terms. Who are they lying to - only he spouse? Everyone? Is it lies of commission or omission? Most unfaithful spouses probably have a sliding scale here where they position their own dishonesty at the “less serious” end, justified or rationalised by their (confirmation biased) perception of their relationship as doomed or toxic or empty. How long they can keep it up for is likely to vary considerably - many confess or allow themselves to be discovered because they can’t sustain it too long, while others become adept at compartmentalising and can sustain it indefinitely.
 

 

[mark clemson]

You're doing something that lots and lots of people in the world actually do, but that *I* consider immoral. Therefore "there must be something wrong with you," "I can't understand how anyone would do that".

Same thing could, and would, be said of a butcher, a bartender, a hunter, a mercenary, someone who divorces, etc, etc by people who view those things as immoral.

All of those things do or can hurt someone (with the "someone" being an animal in some of those cases).

A more realistic view is that it's simply a different set of choices, not necessarily the most ethical set of choices by some standards, for people to make their way in the world and/or live their life.

There have been (and probably still are) people in the world who thought it was "morally ok" to own slaves, to literally own another human being and take away their whole life from them, but not "morally ok" to cheat. Entire societies have existed with that particular permutation of "morality" at various times in history. Really think about that for a while.

Edited March 15, 2022 by mark clemson

[Vivalavi]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:24 AM, pepperbird2 said:

After reading many threads on where as well as on other sites, I am still brought back to the same question.


How can someone cheat on their spouse/relationship partner? How can they see them ,day after day, and not have guilt eat them up inside? Even if their husband/wife is terrible, how can they engage in dishonesty over an extended period of time?

I’m not trying to be judgmental-I just don’t understand it. 

I was one of those people who used to wonder how can anyone ever cheat especially if they claim to be happy in their relationship, if they truly love their spouse. 

In my case, this changed after years of emotional and physical abuse. I was starved for connection and made wrong choices because I was weak. Instead of leaving my unhappy marriage first, I found a band-aid in a form of another toxic relationship. 

Once your brain is under the affair fog, it's hard to think clearly. You're like an addict when it comes to your affair partner. You make selfish choices even though you feel bad deep down. 

[ ] 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
creating segue

[SS2855]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:42 AM, Vivalavi said:

I was one of those people who used to wonder how can anyone ever cheat especially if they claim to be happy in their relationship, if they truly love their spouse. 

In my case, this changed after years of emotional and physical abuse. I was starved for connection and made wrong choices because I was weak. Instead of leaving my unhappy marriage first, I found a band-aid in a form of another toxic relationship. 

Once your brain is under the affair fog, it's hard to think clearly. You're like an addict when it comes to your affair partner. You make selfish choices even though you feel bad deep down. 

[ ] 

 

Admittedly me too. I don’t believe I’m a horrible or unethical person. I did however make a bad decision to enter something that very quickly became a drug to me. Most people (not all but most) who’ve entered an affair find themselves in something they feel all consumed by and literally living in an alternate universe- wanting the next fix. Another poster said here that we are likely conflict avoidant which I agree with here. Usually if not always using the affair as a means to an escape. Nothing proud about it but it is something that is more of a mind f*ck to the person in it, vs. someone that truly just is cold and calculated and doesn’t care about anyone but themselves. Those people exist, but a vast majority of us don’t even understand how we got here. Esther Perel “State of Affairs” is the best piece of writing I’ve ever read on this that answers the “why”. It’s worth a read.

[Vivalavi]

20 hours ago, SS2855 said:

Admittedly me too. I don’t believe I’m a horrible or unethical person. I did however make a bad decision to enter something that very quickly became a drug to me. Most people (not all but most) who’ve entered an affair find themselves in something they feel all consumed by and literally living in an alternate universe- wanting the next fix. Another poster said here that we are likely conflict avoidant which I agree with here. Usually if not always using the affair as a means to an escape. Nothing proud about it but it is something that is more of a mind f*ck to the person in it, vs. someone that truly just is cold and calculated and doesn’t care about anyone but themselves. Those people exist, but a vast majority of us don’t even understand how we got here. Esther Perel “State of Affairs” is the best piece of writing I’ve ever read on this that answers the “why”. It’s worth a read.

Is that a book? 

You are right about everything you said. It's an escape or bandaid. My therapist says it's just distraction from my unhappy marriage. In that way I'm conflict avoidant. I'm avoiding to address what I no longer feel in my marriage. Also, the affair consumes every part of me. I feel no peace unless I hear from him which is very rare these days. He is still the same in person, but no longer the guy who would text me several times a day. He is distant. And I don't blame him. He just became a daddy for second time. Still, I stupidly and wrongfully hanging on my fantasy, of what it used to be. On those hot days while trying to survive arctic cold. Interestingly, he seems always fine.

[pepperbird2]

On 3/15/2022 at 1:26 PM, mark clemson said:

You're doing something that lots and lots of people in the world actually do, but that *I* consider immoral. Therefore "there must be something wrong with you," "I can't understand how anyone would do that".

Same thing could, and would, be said of a butcher, a bartender, a hunter, a mercenary, someone who divorces, etc, etc by people who view those things as immoral.

All of those things do or can hurt someone (with the "someone" being an animal in some of those cases).

A more realistic view is that it's simply a different set of choices, not necessarily the most ethical set of choices by some standards, for people to make their way in the world and/or live their life.

There have been (and probably still are) people in the world who thought it was "morally ok" to own slaves, to literally own another human being and take away their whole life from them, but not "morally ok" to cheat. Entire societies have existed with that particular permutation of "morality" at various times in history. Really think about that for a while.

Isn't this really just "wahtaboutism"?

[pepperbird2]

I guess it's just me. I couldn't do it, but maybe that's not such a bad thing? Mind you,I'm not saying that what I do to handle relationship conflict is all that wonderful either. I sort of put it in a box on the proverbial shelf until I have the mental energy to address it.
That box doesn't get opened very much. This is part of why I admire those who are courageous enough to "face their demons" so to speak. They are a lot braver than I am, lol.

[glows]

38 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

I guess it's just me. I couldn't do it, but maybe that's not such a bad thing? Mind you,I'm not saying that what I do to handle relationship conflict is all that wonderful either. I sort of put it in a box on the proverbial shelf until I have the mental energy to address it.
That box doesn't get opened very much. This is part of why I admire those who are courageous enough to "face their demons" so to speak. They are a lot braver than I am, lol.

Pepperbird, I get it but I don’t agree with it.