Heartbroken, and I deserve it

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

The ending of the relationship/moving on to someone new. 

She didn't rush anything.  She was ready to move on and took a chance 

 

[basil67]

And to add to the last comment, I think I read that you only saw her once a week.   It's not like she had to get used to you not being around all the time.

[BrinnM]

4 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

because I did (do) love her,

You keep saying that - but at the same time, you’ve mentioned that she’s not your “soulmate”, and that in 4.5 years, even though the relationship was great, you never flip-flopped, not even once, about your decision to not stay with her long-term. Which in your particular case would’ve meant marriage, but mostly for the papers/green card. Your fear of “becoming your father” was more important than giving the relationship a shot, a mere chance to continue. So I’m not sure if you’re analyzing and assessing your relationship and your love for her correctly. After all, you didn't turn into your father (whatever that entails) in those 4.5 years you spent with her, right? And that’s some solid, first-hand proof that you can do it. If you want to. You just don’t want to. 

[John Glasby]

Basil, it's not really my fear of getting hurt. It's my fear of being my father. My father was really cruel to my mother - not in the unintentional way I've been cruel to this girl, but actively cruel, belittling her, undermining her confidence, being verbally abusive.  I know I am a much more soft-hearted person than he was, and in my relationships I've never been that way towards a girl (I'm actually known for being quite affectionate) but my fear is that if I'm in a long marriage and somehow grow tired of my spouse or something, I will turn into the monster my father was. 

And I will share something else that is deeply disturbing, I know, but I have some auto-immune related health problems that put me at higher risk for certain cancers, and probably shorten my lifespan to some degree. I have always felt that if the day ever came when I was handed a terminal illness, I would prefer to end my own life than suffer a brutal debilitation and death (I've witnessed that with both parents). Part of my fear of marriage is the commitment, because I could not do that if I was married - I would feel too much responsibility to ever hurt my partner like that. So, in that sense, marriage would strip me of an option I've long held as a possibility in my life. 

I know that's really, really messed up. But I'm just being honest. 

[John Glasby]

2 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

You keep saying that - but at the same time, you’ve mentioned that she’s not your “soulmate”, and that in 4.5 years, even though the relationship was great, you never flip-flopped, not even once, about your decision to not stay with her long-term. Which in your particular case would’ve meant marriage, but mostly for the papers/green card. Your fear of “becoming your father” was more important than giving the relationship a shot, a mere chance to continue. So I’m not sure if you’re analyzing and assessing your relationship and your love for her correctly. After all, you didn't turn into your father (whatever that entails) in those 4.5 years you spent with her, right? And that’s some solid, first-hand proof that you can do it. If you want to. You just don’t want to. 

Fair points, Brinn.  No, not my "soul mate," perhaps, but I do care for her deeply, so I consider that love. 

[John Glasby]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

And to add to the last comment, I think I read that you only saw her once a week.   It's not like she had to get used to you not being around all the time.

True. I had not been earning her love for a while. 

[BrinnM]

1 minute ago, John Glasby said:

Fair points, Brinn.  No, not my "soul mate," perhaps, but I do care for her deeply, so I consider that love. 

Ok, yes, I agree. I don’t believe in the soulmate concept anyway, so there’s that; I just read your above post about your health, and yes, I can relate to that. Now it makes more sense why you wouldn’t want to “burden” yourself with a spouse. I’m not saying I understand your thinking process completely, but I understand it a little better now. 

[basil67]

I think it's great that you're being honest.  Have you ever considering working through this with a therapist?   Holding back from love and commitment is creating more problems for you than it solves. 

Out of curiosity, why did you only see her once a week?   Such sparse catch ups aren't the actions of a man who really loves his partner.  

 

 

[John Glasby]

10 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

Ok, yes, I agree. I don’t believe in the soulmate concept anyway, so there’s that; I just read your above post about your health, and yes, I can relate to that. Now it makes more sense why you wouldn’t want to “burden” yourself with a spouse. I’m not saying I understand your thinking process completely, but I understand it a little better now. 

Basil, this is for you ... It wasn't "only" once a week, we would often go out to dinner during the week, and were constantly in contact via text throughout the day, saying good morning, goodnight, etc.. We just both work 7-4, and so while were "always" together in the first year or two of the relationship, routines just settle in where the work week is the work week and the weekend is the weekend, I guess. Still, I could have showed her more attention, I know. As I said in my letter, as a natural loner, I was getting the attention I needed to feel loved and happy - I realize she was not.

Brinn, it's a messed up psychology, I know, but I've always been strongly independent, and in this case, yes, it's limiting my ability to accept and invest in love. Ironically, in the last month or so, I've been going through a bit of cancer scare that is yet to be resolved. And my vulnerability in not having her is multiplying my stress big time!  At the end of the day, it may be I really don't want to face these kind of things alone.

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by John Glasby

[John Glasby]

This back and forth has been very helpful, ladies, thank you. 

On reflection, I am so glad that I said clearly, in no uncertain terms, in my letter to her, "I took you for granted, ______, and that is unforgivable." 

I'm so glad I said that, because it's true, and I needed to own it. It's funny, but while we were breaking up and since, she said a few times, "You did nothing wrong" - referring, I'm sure, to the fact that I was clear about marriage from Day 1. But as we all know, I did a ton of stuff wrong by taking her for granted and becoming really lazy in making her feel loved and needed. I'm so glad she brought up the thing about me "demoting" the relationship the last time we saw each other, because it was a massive wakeup call to reflect on what I did to make her fall out of love. 

I feel like I've learned a lot from this. You really never can let a relationship become one sided. It's passive cruelty that is so destructive. 

Thanks again. 

[healing light]

Alright, I think you are being pretty hard on yourself here. You never actively mistreated her, you stated your boundaries around marriage upfront, and she was hoping the terms would change. As a fellow insomniac, sleep is HUGE and a valid reason to pair down overnights together if you're not getting adequate rest and that is articulated clearly (unless she was amenable to you sleeping in a separate bed). It isn't like you just selfishly withheld to punish her emotionally while you did a slow withdrawal, you did this for a valid health reason and didn't realize the impact at the time that it had on her perception of the relationship. Perhaps there could have been a different compromise here but you're acting like you betrayed her and it was so unforgiveable and I don't think that's the case here from what you've described.

Your fear about not having the option to end it with marriage--there is no guarantee that you would be the first one to perish even though you are 12 years her senior. Anything can happen in life, so this is a point where I feel it would be worth your while to explore with a good counselor or therapist. And clearly you aren't going to turn into an abusive monster when you have no history of doing so; so, again, I feel like this has been misattributed to marriage itself when it was your father's personal shortcomings as a man.

I wish you luck, but just wanted to chime in that I think you are being really rather harsh with yourself and it doesn't sound warranted. And, sorry, but I do judge people that monkey branch that quickly after a 4.5 year relationship. I think it is messed up for everyone involved--the new guy who is very likely a rebound, her who has now delayed her healing process and buried it in the form of someone else (in my mind), and you who is sitting back wondering if there was crossover at the end. I know a lot of people can't be alone and they do this but I don't see the benefits in it and don't find it very mature in general.

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, John Glasby said:

 Add to that my talking about leaving in 2022, which implies "that's when I'll be leaving you." 

You wanted your freedom to travel and pursue whatever you want and your wish came true.

You pushed her away but it seems that it only bothered you when you realized she's happy with someone else.

Try to reframe this as a win-win situation.

You got the distance and freedom you wanted and she got the relationship she wanted (that you were unwilling to participate in).

[Annama]

John and Mrsturgess, I am sorry you are both in this pain that just doesnt go away.

I am also going through a very painful break up but I am on that other side - I walked away from the man I love deeply for pretty similar reasons why your partners left. 

I knew he loved me but not enough to take it to another level. 

He was a loner who loved to socialise, if this makes sense. Charming and fun among others but then he liked to withdraw and be on his own. 

We had wonderful weekends together. He never pushed for more. He was content with status quo. He probably would be for years to come. When we were together, it was perfect ( for me). 

We spent weekends together and rather limited telephone contact during the week.

I wanted to live with him. So badly. He told me his 3 bedroom house although empty, reminds him of a previous relationship so perhaps one day if he will sell it, he is not ruling out the idea of living together. Also, we were meant to stop having petty arguments.

Well, when he looked for the houses he never talked about US.

I met his friends, family, adult children. All wonderful people.

There were so many things I could mention here but it is unfair to hijack your post.

I am reading your posts and I have to admit, I am hoping he will regret losing me too...

I know this sounds quite bad but I am being honest. 

When I was collecting my stuff, he turned on netflix and watched some series with legs up. 

Oh well,

Back to you,

I dont believe for one moment that your ex partners found the one all of a sudden. Its not easy to connect with people and when you love someone like they do, you are indifferent about others.

They may try to conceal the pain and emptiness but this is a very short term solution and rarely works. 

 

 

 

 

[John Glasby]

Annama, thanks for sharing and I'm sorry you're going through this, on the other side of the equation. 

To quote the great George Harrison, 

Isn't it a pity?

Isn't it a shame?

How we break each other's heart,

And cause each other pain. 

How we take each other's love,

Without thinking anymore. 

Forgetting to give back,

Isn't it a pity?

Edited March 24, 2022 by John Glasby

[Mrsturgess]

30 minutes ago, Annama said:

John and Mrsturgess, I am sorry you are both in this pain that just doesnt go away.

I am also going through a very painful break up but I am on that other side - I walked away from the man I love deeply for pretty similar reasons why your partners left. 

I knew he loved me but not enough to take it to another level. 

He was a loner who loved to socialise, if this makes sense. Charming and fun among others but then he liked to withdraw and be on his own. 

We had wonderful weekends together. He never pushed for more. He was content with status quo. He probably would be for years to come. When we were together, it was perfect ( for me). 

We spent weekends together and rather limited telephone contact during the week.

I wanted to live with him. So badly. He told me his 3 bedroom house although empty, reminds him of a previous relationship so perhaps one day if he will sell it, he is not ruling out the idea of living together. Also, we were meant to stop having petty arguments.

Well, when he looked for the houses he never talked about US.

I met his friends, family, adult children. All wonderful people.

There were so many things I could mention here but it is unfair to hijack your post.

I am reading your posts and I have to admit, I am hoping he will regret losing me too...

I know this sounds quite bad but I am being honest. 

When I was collecting my stuff, he turned on netflix and watched some series with legs up. 

Oh well,

Back to you,

I dont believe for one moment that your ex partners found the one all of a sudden. Its not easy to connect with people and when you love someone like they do, you are indifferent about others.

They may try to conceal the pain and emptiness but this is a very short term solution and rarely works. 

 

 

 

 

This is interesting Annama, thank you and interesting to hear from the other side. What did he say when you ended it, did he try and talk you out of it? How long since you ended it?

He sounds a bit similar to me... I love going out and socialising when I'm in the right frame of mind, I do feel lonely sometimes when I'm at home alone etc but generally quite resilient with that and quite comfortable not having her around, whereas she understandably wants a full on share each day together scenario (which I want too in my head but never somehow felt it with her)

[Annama]

17 minutes ago, Mrsturgess said:

This is interesting Annama, thank you and interesting to hear from the other side. What did he say when you ended it, did he try and talk you out of it? How long since you ended it?

He sounds a bit similar to me... I love going out and socialising when I'm in the right frame of mind, I do feel lonely sometimes when I'm at home alone etc but generally quite resilient with that and quite comfortable not having her around, whereas she understandably wants a full on share each day together scenario (which I want too in my head but never somehow felt it with her)

Thank  you for asking. Not sure if I can hijack this post. You can see all the details in my post, if you only wish

I am 42 he is 52. My dream man and he forced my hand. Didnt see it coming cause he knew how much I love him. I would have given him kidney,blood and everything on the spot.

When he learned is over he texted me a few times " are you sure you want to do this" or " would like to work things out" 

He maybe texted something like this 3 times in a space of a week. That was it. Then I collected my stuff and by then he was a cool cat. He helped me put my massive suitcase in the cab and disappeared in his house while I managed to put smaller bags in.

We had 3 massive arguments where we ended, he packed my stufd or I did but I never take them out. I usually asked " are you open to a conversation?" And we will patch things up. 

This time I didnt say it. He didn't either. Its been nearly 2,5 months 

I cant sleep either. I am sure your ex partners are not happy and cheerful. Once the light goes off , and you are alone with your thoughts- this is it. Pain, regret and sadness.

[Annama]

It is a great pity indeed, John! 

This is it...why at our age, take love for granted?

Why not try to go fully in rather then with one foot only? 

When someone is lukewarm the other person feels it and become insecure. There is imbalance. 

 

[John Glasby]

You're absolutely right. It's different in every case, I'm sure, but when one partner is holding back - for whatever the reason - it's effectively a form of passive cruelty. 

[John Glasby]

In the "journal entry" fashion ... my thoughts of today. 

I know it sounds ridiculous, but my own parents' deaths did not affect me this bad. Those deaths were natural, and I had a few months to accept and adjust to their dying, and love them through it, knowing they loved me. It was natural, and I was strong enough to handle it, though I still find myself grieving for my mother at times, and even breaking down in tears. But this breakup feels is worse because someone made a conscious choice to reject me and go to another. I know I drove her away in a series of ways both large and small, but because I didn't see it coming, it struck like an assassin's bullet, and the new partner made it feel like cruelty upon misery. 

Anyway, standing in the community grocery this morning, turning every aisle corner wondering if this would be the day I bump into them together (I suspect they're still keeping it under wraps though), I realized, it's going to be a long nine months until I can get out of here for good. And I know, only then will I truly be able to put this pain behind me. Everything I see here reminds me of her, because this little community was our home and we were always seen together on weekends shopping, or at the park, or whatnot. To be honest, she was the longest relationship I've had, and felt like a wife to me, even if I recognize the absurdity of that statement. When people thought of one of us, they thought of the other - we were pretty much always a couple. It's hard to be alone, and harder because I know she's now part of a different couple. 

This also got me to reflecting. When we first got to this place, we met each other the first day and stayed in touch. I was smitten with her but didn't actively pursue because I was conscious of our age difference and didn't want to look like an "old fool." But we hung out (in a group) enough and eventually, about six or seven months later, it wound up just her and me at my place after a gathering one night, slightly drunk, and before I knew it, we were kissing. She actually initiated it. From that night on, for four and half years, we were together. But I also recall that some time in the preceding six months, she had dated (fairly briefly) a Navy guy in a town about an hour or so away. I don't think it lasted long and truthfully, I never cared. 

But now, when I reflect on it, I wonder if the fact she dated a guy, then broke up, then fairly quickly got with me, reflects the fact that she just cannot stand to be alone. She has to be in a relationship. I don't know that it makes me feel any better, but it just makes me think this is probably a pattern for her to avoid dealing with all the crap I'm dealing with. Honestly, if I had someone sending me texts, romancing me right now, making me feel attractive and desired, I know I'd feel better about life. 

I'm not questioning her desire to marry me and that, for a while, I was the one she wanted to be with for good and all. I realize, of course, that by the time she broke up with me, she'd hardened her heart against me due to my lack of commitment. I'm not saying what we had wasn't real, I'm just saying I wonder if the nature of the way we started was another in a succession of her quickly moving on from failed relationships. Maybe a pointless thought, but the mind goes round and round trying to analyze and look for solace anywhere you can find it.

Anyway - random thoughts. 10 months to go, and counting. 

John

[vla1120]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:14 PM, John Glasby said:

I have always felt that if the day ever came when I was handed a terminal illness, I would prefer to end my own life than suffer a brutal debilitation and death (I've witnessed that with both parents). Part of my fear of marriage is the commitment, because I could not do that if I was married - I would feel too much responsibility to ever hurt my partner like that. So, in that sense, marriage would strip me of an option I've long held as a possibility in my life. 

I would just like to address this part for you. My husband had a terminal illness. My state had just enacted the Death with Dignity act when my husband's health took a turn for the worse. We started the process to have him evaluated for the program and had reached the final step, when the doctor prescribes him the medication he would use for this purpose. Unfortunately, the cancer spread to his brain and he was no longer lucid enough to be considered (very unfortunate). 

Long story short, when you find a good partner, they will understand and support you through the worst of times and respect your wishes because they will want what is best for you.

[Annama]

I can assure you that you cannot one week be ready to marry someone and the following week, meet another potential life partner. Nobody is that lucky.

Also, your ex partner is not a robot. She feels and suffers like you, maybe even more so.

It does not matter that she dated someone before you as this could be meaningless. 

She was ready to spend her life with you. Any first Tom or Harry will not replace you so easily. 

Who knows, maybe this is her tactic to shake you a bit? It may be slightly childlish but I do know women who would do that , to make ex jealous and put his act together. 

Naturally, this is a pure speculation. 

Believe in what you two had. If you had a real and special connection, it will not be easy to rinse and repeat with another man.

I strongly believe it will be hard for her when she realises this not it.

She will be hit by that break up all over again. 

 

[BrinnM]

3 minutes ago, Annama said:

She will be hit by that break up all over again. 

 

I don't know. You either move on, or you don't. 

Sure, some will regret breaking up and will never be happy with somebody else, pining over "the one who got away". Or they get into a rebound relationship that fails for whatever reason (but honestly, in contrast to what many experts say, I don't think they are that unlikely to succeed, either). 

Most people just move on, let's be honest. They find a new partner, or stay single, and they're just fine. Memories do fade over time, you know, and there would be zero happy married couples in 2nd or 3rd marriages, if everybody thought that way. What I have also noticed is that over time, when we remember past relationships, we recall more and more negatives, which makes it easier to move on. It's because (IMO) while we're in the relationship, we try to ignore those as much as possible (cognitive dissonance); whereas, after a breakup we do the exact opposite to make the breakup feel less bad. 

[mark clemson]

While you're dealing with this, consider doing some research on "attachment styles". You seem (in my layman's opinion) to have "avoidant attachment," to some extent. So it seems you are perfectly comfortable with your partner being "at some distance" rather than constantly close at hand.

This can confuse folks as to their "status" WRT to the avoidant person. Is it a real relationship, or just "casual"?  However, those with avoidant attachment can still deeply care for another person and very much want the relationship - just at the "safe distance" they are comfortable with. Seems like some of this was going on.

You might also look into Living Apart Together (LAT), as you seem like the type who'd be comfortable with that sort of arrangement. Understanding how your "style" fits into the larger picture of relationship types may be helpful to you.

 

8 hours ago, John Glasby said:

now, when I reflect on it, I wonder if the fact she dated a guy, then broke up, then fairly quickly got with me, reflects the fact that she just cannot stand to be alone. She has to be in a relationship. I don't know that it makes me feel any better, but it just makes me think this is probably a pattern for her

Indeed, this suggests she might have an insecure attachment style. Although it's counter-intuitive, insecure and avoidant types tend to attract each other. Your "de-escalation" may have triggered her insecurity too strongly for her to continue. (Or it may be the result of her prior experiences). She assumed "this must mean it's the end" and so took pro-active action.

Don't cling to hopes about her returning to you. Suggest that you instead fully process this and look for a potentially better partner for you, who is genuinely comfortable with your "style".

Edited March 25, 2022 by mark clemson

[John Glasby]

Annama and Brinn, I don't have any fantasies that she'll be missing me anytime soon. We had a very affectionate relationship and really got on well - in fact, we never had a real argument, even when we broke up. But in the couple weeks just before she pulled the trigger, I sensed a certain resentment in her I'd never felt before. I guess years of feeling no commitment from me (pointed out by her sister and friends) turned into a simmering resentment. 

On top of that, it would appear the new guy likes to do all the things I did not, like expensive cars, restaurants, wining/dining, drinking, partying - I'm sure she's reveling in a boyfriend who's 180-degrees from the homebody, trying-to-save for retirement, boyfriend she left behind. 

I sure she's in the "honeymoon phase" even if it is a rebound. I remember our first few months were pretty dang blissful. Neither would I be surprised if she's got a ring on her finger in the next six months. After her experience with me, I suspect she's gonna suss out real quick whether someone she dates is capable of marriage. 

We never had a dark period or rough patch in our relationship (until the end), but I suspect all she'll remember for a while is the guy who wouldn't commit. And I guess I don't really blame her. 

[John Glasby]

Mark, that's extremely interesting and makes a lot of sense. 

And don't worry, I'm not hoping or dreaming she'll return to me. To be honest, the speed with which she went into the arms of someone else would be a big problem for me if she wanted to reconcile. And why ever would she?  I've made no indication I have rethought my position on marriage, and in my final letter to her basically thanked her, owned my mistakes, wished her well and said goodbye. So, for a variety of reasons, I know "us" will never be a thing again. 

In fact, in 9 months, I'll be on a plane, never to return.