Heartbroken, and I deserve it

[John Glasby]

2 hours ago, vla1120 said:

I would just like to address this part for you. My husband had a terminal illness. My state had just enacted the Death with Dignity act when my husband's health took a turn for the worse. We started the process to have him evaluated for the program and had reached the final step, when the doctor prescribes him the medication he would use for this purpose. Unfortunately, the cancer spread to his brain and he was no longer lucid enough to be considered (very unfortunate). 

Long story short, when you find a good partner, they will understand and support you through the worst of times and respect your wishes because they will want what is best for you.

Thank you for sharing your story, vla1120, it's very enlightening and I'm sorry for the loss of your dear husband. 

[Annama]

2 hours ago, BrinnM said:

I don't know. You either move on, or you don't. 

Sure, some will regret breaking up and will never be happy with somebody else, pining over "the one who got away". Or they get into a rebound relationship that fails for whatever reason (but honestly, in contrast to what many experts say, I don't think they are that unlikely to succeed, either). 

Most people just move on, let's be honest. They find a new partner, or stay single, and they're just fine. Memories do fade over time, you know, and there would be zero happy married couples in 2nd or 3rd marriages, if everybody thought that way. What I have also noticed is that over time, when we remember past relationships, we recall more and more negatives, which makes it easier to move on. It's because (IMO) while we're in the relationship, we try to ignore those as much as possible (cognitive dissonance); whereas, after a breakup we do the exact opposite to make the breakup feel less bad. 

I am not disputing that but a lot depends why relationship ended...mutually or not. If there were major issues,  dramas etc

How relationship ended also matters. John mentioned that they had a loving affectionate relationship. No arguments until the end. I think this matters too 

The relationship did not die from the natural causes. Both still have strong feelings. They did not grow apart. There was no boredom. Frustration? Yes and most probably resentment. 

I would say, but really cautiously,  that in this particular circumstances, woman would like her man to fight for her and for the relationship. Not wish her well and ciao.

Otherwise, he will only confirm that she was right to make that difficult decision.

Naturally -only if he means it, not out of ego and sense of sudden loss of loving companionship.

But I am a hopeless romantic. 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Annama

[John Glasby]

Annama, I really don't think she was giving me an opportunity to fight for her. There was no, "If you can't make a commitment, I'm out." It was simply, "I can't be in a relationship with no future." She had her mind made up, and I'm reasonably confident she already knew who her next relationship would be at that point. I think she was past the point of no return and was simply executing a plan to end a dead-end relationship and begin again with someone new. She was sobbing the whole time, but I suspect that was just the intensity and stress of ending a relationship that had lasted for more than four years. Same with the lingering hug at the end. It was a farewell to everything we had together, including a trusting friendship (she was with me through my mother's death, and some health problems of mine, etc.).

It was actually almost funny at one point. When we finally unclenched from the long hug, she ran her hand across my crotch as she turned away. That was muscle memory, not a conscious decision, I'm sure. I almost laughed but am glad I didn't. We really had a great love life and had there not been another guy in the wings, I'm fairly certain we would have had a Friends with Benefits relationship of some sort had she remained single for even a couple months. But, of course, that didn't happen. 

I really think "fighting for her" would have been pointless, and looked at with suspicion of sincerity. And once I learned she was with someone, there was no way I was going to even try. I just don't think she's the kind to look back. 

[basil67]

I agree that "fighting for her" would have been pointless.  The effort is supposed to be while the relationship is active - not after one person has decided that they need to move on.  

I mentioned earlier how I was able to move on from my ex-h easily as I'd already done the grieving while still in the relationship.  Well his reaction to me leaving was to decide to fight for the relationship, but it was too late.  All the CPR in the world won't bring a body back from the dead. 

All in all, I think you've managed this with a great deal of dignity.  

[Annama]

31 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I agree that "fighting for her" would have been pointless.  The effort is supposed to be while the relationship is active - not after one person has decided that they need to move on.  

I mentioned earlier how I was able to move on from my ex-h easily as I'd already done the grieving while still in the relationship.  Well his reaction to me leaving was to decide to fight for the relationship, but it was too late.  All the CPR in the world won't bring a body back from the dead. 

All in all, I think you've managed this with a great deal of dignity.  

Would it be inappropriate to ask why you left your ex

[basil67]

Just now, Annama said:

Would it be inappropriate to ask why you left your ex

Sorry, off topic for the thread.  

[Annama]

16 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Sorry, off topic for the thread.  

Got it 

[John Glasby]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

I agree that "fighting for her" would have been pointless.  The effort is supposed to be while the relationship is active - not after one person has decided that they need to move on.  

I mentioned earlier how I was able to move on from my ex-h easily as I'd already done the grieving while still in the relationship.  Well his reaction to me leaving was to decide to fight for the relationship, but it was too late.  All the CPR in the world won't bring a body back from the dead. 

All in all, I think you've managed this with a great deal of dignity.  

Thanks, Basil, if I I have retained some dignity in this, that's something at least. ... I learned a big lesson from a prior break-up where I did not act with dignity, and hope to never do that again. 

Maybe not unsurprisingly, I self-sabotaged that relationship too. About 13 years ago, I'd developed a mutual attraction to young, recently divorced mother of two who was a coworker, and we were about to begin a relationship. I was really kind of bothered by some of her past history she'd shared with me, but yet I wanted to have a relationship because I was so attracted to her and did have genuine feelings for her.  I said, "I just want to be up front and say that I will be leaving (state) one day, but if you'd like to get together, I'm willing to give it a chance if you are." We did, and sure enough, about a year in we started having issues over my desire to move elsewhere for my career and her unwillingness to ever move her kids out of state, away from family, which I understand much better now. Marriage was on the table, but leaving the state was a dealbreaker for her. She eventually broke up and I was heartbroken. I whined and begged at one point. Got really mad when I found out later she was now with a coworker (who she'd soon marry), and I sent her an angry e-mail. Never again do I want to be appear so pathetic. 

But, like you probably are, I'm seeing a pattern here of my laying "escape clauses" at the beginning of relationships about which I have some reservations going in. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by John Glasby

[Mrsturgess]

5 hours ago, John Glasby said:

Thanks, Basil, if I I have retained some dignity in this, that's something at least. ... I learned a big lesson from a prior break-up where I did not act with dignity, and hope to never do that again. 

Maybe not unsurprisingly, I self-sabotaged that relationship too. About 13 years ago, I'd developed a mutual attraction to young, recently divorced mother of two who was a coworker, and we were about to begin a relationship. I was really kind of bothered by some of her past history she'd shared with me, but yet I wanted to have a relationship because I was so attracted to her and did have genuine feelings for her.  I said, "I just want to be up front and say that I will be leaving (state) one day, but if you'd like to get together, I'm willing to give it a chance if you are." We did, and sure enough, about a year in we started having issues over my desire to move elsewhere for my career and her unwillingness to ever move her kids out of state, away from family, which I understand much better now. Marriage was on the table, but leaving the state was a dealbreaker for her. She eventually broke up and I was heartbroken. I whined and begged at one point. Got really mad when I found out later she was now with a coworker (who she'd soon marry), and I sent her an angry e-mail. Never again do I want to be appear so pathetic. 

But, like you probably are, I'm seeing a pattern here of my laying "escape clauses" at the beginning of relationships about which I have some reservations going in. 

John you sound very similar to me. I broke up with my ex 13 years ago in very similar fashion to my current break up (drove somebody who loved me unconditionally away because I somehow didn’t feel it / was disconnected) but then when she finally gave up, I went into another whirlwind of panic, constantly messaging and calling her and trying to rectify/ beg/ promise things - humiliating. 

[John Glasby]

Yes, I reckon the only way to come out of this even slightly less miserable is to come out with your dignity. 

When my ex broke up with me last month, I never lost my cool or raised my voice, I just started apologizing for my position on marriage and I asked her, "Please, don't hate me." I reiterated that I'm just an odd duck who is a loner, can go for long periods without being in a relationship, etc., but that I do truly love her and was so sorry for being unable to give her what she deserves. I told her this is the closest thing to a marriage I've ever had. We never said anything angry or confrontational, which is good. But I could sense, even though she cried the entire time, she had her mind made up and was not negotiating, but rather just telling me how it was. When we parted it was quite affectionate, and I was in such a kind of shock, I never felt close to crying or anything, I was still trying to grasp that it was really happening. And I was trying to make sure she knew this was not any sort of failure on her part - my issues are all mine, and mine alone. I wasn't even gutted the rest of that night, I was kind of in a zombie state. 

And as I said, the next time we met, to exchange stuff, I went into some reasons to justify the headspace I'm in on marriage, but she was even cooler and I could tell she wasn't really all that interested in sorting through it. And she explained how I had been moving that relationship backward in her mind for some time, which I am genuinely glad to now understand. I know now that at that point, she was already with the new guy, so her coolness makes sense - she wasn't in misery like I was. But I'm slightly humiliated at having shown I was still mentally wrestling with this, and she was now struck on someone else.

Thank God I didn't do something really embarrassing like ask her to reconsider or beg. That is the only possible way I could feel worse right now. Because the answer would have been no, and then when I found out she was with someone, I would have just been even more humiliated. 

[Mrsturgess]

I think that whole thing of going straight into a relationship with somebody else is what is the killer. That upsets me and a lot with my scenario and I think makes it harder to process; I wish many things but also that one or both of us had at least had the bravery to end it/ walk away in independence rather than feeling the need to keep on with each other until one of us had found a new safety blanket to fill the hole. I understand why she did that and it would probably have never ended and gone on indefinitely without that otherwise, but it makes it painful 

[John Glasby]

I hear you. That is, without a doubt, my biggest problem and why I'm suffering so much. 

But if you think about it - that is 99% our ego. We were so accustomed to feeling like they needed us more than we needed them, that to suddenly find out they can be perfectly happy with someone else (or so it seems), that's a real blow to the ego. 

In the odd moments when I'm not revolted by the thought of her with someone else, I try to put myself in her shoes. What if I was nearing 40, wanted to be married and was in a long-term relationship with a woman who would not commit, seemed to pretty much take me for granted, and was frequently talking about leaving the country for good. I would move through heartsickness to eventually land on resentment. And at that point, if some girl started flirting with me or whatever, eventually I'm sure my heart would start thinking, "That's where there's a future and someone who appreciates me." 

It's natural. It just feels so wrong to us, because we essentially had the tables turned on us. They were just trying to turn a bad situation into a good situation. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by John Glasby

[Mrsturgess]

6 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

I hear you. That is, without a doubt, my biggest problem and why I'm suffering so much. 

But if you think about it - that is 99% our ego. We were so accustomed to feeling like they needed us more than we needed them, that to suddenly find out they can be perfectly happy with someone else (or so it seems), that's a real blow to the ego. 

In the odd moments when I'm not revolted by the thought of her with someone else, I try to put myself in her shoes. What if I was nearing 40, wanted to be married and was in a long-term relationship with a woman who would not commit, seemed to pretty much take me for granted, and was frequently talking about leaving the country for good. I would move through heartsickness to eventually land on resentment. And at that point, if some girl started flirting with me or whatever, eventually I'm sure my heart would start thinking, "That's where there's a future and someone who appreciates me." 

It's natural. It just feels so wrong to us, because we essentially had the tables turned on us. They were just trying to turn a bad situation into a good situation. 

Yes, the irony with my situation was there were genuine points when I thought in my head maybe it would be a good thing if she met somebody else so I can let her go without being racked with guilt about breaking her heart and not have to keep suffering the guilt of being with her but not making her happy/ making her unhappy. I didn’t really foresee how bad this might me feel though. 

[John Glasby]

Same here. As I said, I always envisioned we'd go LDR once we both left here and I knew she'd need more and would find someone to be with in England, but I felt that would be easy for me to deal with, being so far removed. 

How frickin' arrogant to even think that way. I'm ashamed of myself. If I could even think those thoughts, I should have realized I was taking advantage of her love and ended it. But I couldn't bear the thought of breaking up with her - I feared she would be utterly devastated. And guess what - jokes on me! 

[ExpatInItaly]

21 hours ago, basil67 said:

I agree that "fighting for her" would have been pointless.  The effort is supposed to be while the relationship is active - not after one person has decided that they need to move on.

I'm with you, Basil. 

By the time someone has pulled the plug, the window to "fight for" the relationship is generally already closed. An ex of mine once did this, but I had lost interest in making it work by that point. I wasn't rejecting his efforts out of resentment, but a true lack of desire to be with him anymore. That ship had sailed. 

[John Glasby]

Believe me, I get it. I never sensed there was any opportunity to make a case for staying together.

She was delivering her decision, not an ultimatum.  

[basil67]

2 hours ago, John Glasby said:

Believe me, I get it. I never sensed there was any opportunity to make a case for staying together.

She was delivering her decision, not an ultimatum.  

Indeed.   And she probably knew that an ultimatum would not have persuaded you to marry her anyway. 

[John Glasby]

Journal entry: went to bed at 10, up at 3 again with anxiety. Always the same anxiety - "I can't believe she's with someone else." It seems surreal, like a bad dream

I honestly don't know how I'm going to get through the next nine months to early retirement. But I'm still only a week or so out from having discovered she's with someone, so the pain and jealously and all that stuff is still swamping me. Hopefully in time, it will fade. But I also know at any moment in the next few weeks, they'll go public and I'll either see them, or someone will tell me, and the anxiety will flare once again. Being in this environment - this little work/life community - is just poison for me now. 

One thought did occur to me though. What if this had happened last year, when I was not close to my retirement goal and wasn't in a position to even prepare to go? That truly would have been worse, and I'm not sure I would have stayed to see it through. Thank God I'm within months of the end of this chapter of my life. That's my only saving grace at the moment. 

[Mrsturgess]

Morning John! I can’t sleep either. Feels so weird that only a few weeks ago all she wanted to do was attract me and convince me and now she’s adjusted herself to try and do it for/ with somebody else and to move on from me. I was always absolutely fine on my own both sleeping and in the day but feel so alone now, and just feel a bit hopeless… know I’ve got to try and move on but in truth I feel like I’m going to struggle to do that without meeting somebody else I fully connect with and that is unlikely / rare in terms of somebody who will stand up against her (even though there was something deeper missing for me!) and my confidence has definitely been hit here.  

at least you have a bit of a light at the end of the tunnel scenario with your move

[John Glasby]

Mrsturgess, we should probably move in together for a while - misery loves company! 

When I'm trying to be optimistic and look on the positive side of things, I try to tell myself this: "I was not looking for a permanent relationship, I was simply attracted to her and wanted to have some fun. We clicked, and she gave me 4+ years of fun, companionship, devotion and an amazing love life. I should be happy I received this gift, and stop lamenting or being jealous that she's now giving that to someone else. She didn't go looking for someone, I basically pushed her away." 

I'm not very successful in supplanting the "I can't believe she's with someone else" thoughts with this, but I'm trying. Is my life richer for my relationship with her? It certainly is. How it ended should not overshadow all that. It's just that right now, it feels like that. 

[Mrsturgess]

I keep trying to think about it positively as in - I did / deep down do genuinely want her to be happy, I wasn’t doing that, this isn’t a choice of rejection of me it’s a result of me rejecting her, I should be happy for her and try and embrace the extra freedom I have (although that isn’t actually much as I had kept her at such a distance to maintain all my own freedom anyway).

whilst it’s helpful coming on here to find a response when feeling low, I have to say I think it’s also possibly a bit negative as it facilitates/ encourages wallowing a bit!

[John Glasby]

I ran into a long-time mutual friend of mine and the ex's yesterday at work. She didn't know that we'd broken up and had not seen her in a while. When she asked about her, I told her we were no longer together, and she was shocked, but then said, "You know, Ann asked me a few days ago if you two were broken up, because she saw _____ with some guy. I told her, 'No, they're still together' but now that makes sense." 

She was also shocked that ______ would rush into a relationship so quickly, but she said, "_____ is definitely a person who needs to be with someone. I don't think she can stand to be alone. But that's clearly a rebound relationship." She seemed kind of worried about her. 

It left me with a funny feeling, that I can't exactly describe. Kind of sad. Kind of feeling like I don't really know her as well as I thought. It's a strange feeling. 

 

 

[John Glasby]

I read an interesting article today about "Do you really miss your ex, or do you miss intimacy?"

I so related to it because I realize I had 4.5 years to come to the conclusion I wanted to marry this girl, and I never did. But I also had 4.5 years to become completely addicted to the intimacy and the unwavering friendship. 

I do miss the intimacy, the handholding, the snuggles as we'd go to sleep, the daily texting, the goodnight text every night with three kisses. Since that was suddenly stripped away in one unexpected hour, I've been in mental and physical withdrawal. I especially miss my friend. I feel like because she's with another and we're not in contact, my friend is somehow against me now, though I know that's stupid. 

But yeah - I think it's the intimacy (and friendship) I miss more than anything. I'm simply in withdrawal. 

[Ha-ha]

Sorry to be harsh gentlemen but from the opposite side, it’s hard to sympathise with you two. You both had your chance.. These ladies essentially WASTED years with you and you woke up only when they are with someone else.  It’s really the bruised ego talking.  It is getting grating to hear how painful it is that the ladies are WITH someone else. It sounded that  all would be OK if they were alone, moping for you.

Please, be a little less selfish. Like any kind of missed opportunities, we can only hope that a better one comes along but mark this one as lesson learnt and move on.   Let them find love they TRULY deserve. 

As for you both, I truly wish you peace and strength to let go this pain. 

[John Glasby]

I hear you and understand your view.