Heartbroken, and I deserve it

[BrinnM]

9 hours ago, John Glasby said:

I don't think a marriage proposal from me would be an "awful" thing for her. There are plenty of couples who have broken up and gotten back together. If I had to lose her to motivate me to rise above my fears of marriage, so be it, I don't think that's an "awful" thing. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. 

Well, then why don't you give it a shot? No matter whether or not she's in a relationship currently. You have mentioned over and over again how they're probably not gonna stay together anyways, due to his "flaws" (being a womanizer and such), so in reality you are not taking anything "good" away from her, if you "take her away" from that man. You are actually doing her a favor, and she might appreciate that. She might be waiting for that, perhaps. So again — why don't you give it a shot? Tell her everything you've told us, open up, and try to win her back. You wouldn't be the first man to do that, and many have succeeded. It can be a romantic story to tell your children and grandchildren later, if you should decide to have them. What is holding you back? Because something is holding you back and I can't figure out what it is. Fear of rejection? Doubts, because it may not work out long-term & because you only miss her now that she's gone? Doesn't matter, because you know what? You are only there for another 3 or so months. You pop the question, you get rejected, and then you leave anyway. You are not losing anything really. She's already "gone". But if you're STILL hesitant, then I am afraid your fear is real, and/or you're just insecure about a long-term relationship/marriage with her.   

[John Glasby]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Schaeffer said:

There's a certain class in letting her get on with her life and her new guy. Second  chances are over-rated.

Brinn, I tend to agree with this.  My timing - if I did anything right now - would stand a significant chance of pissing her off and making me look like I'm just desperate and acting out of that desperation. I think it would hurt my chances down the road.

What I was thinking to do was pen a very nice "goodbye" letter when I depart, that opens the door to a second chance down the road.   

Also, because of who she's with (a close friend of my boss), word would spread like wildfire here and the humiliation of a failed reconciliation would be so humiliating. Thus far I've acted with dignity (such as my previous letter to her). So, I'd like to keep it that way, but be very honest in my goodbye letter that I recognize all that I lost in my stubbornness about marriage, and how much she means to me. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by John Glasby

[Venus080411]

41 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

Yes, perhaps. But you should’ve been as well, because she’s right. With every relationship, with every marriage, heck with every contract you take a chance and a risk. It’s how it’s done. Sorry it didn’t work out, but in my opinion it’s because you’ve been too “stiff” & too inflexible 

I agree with Brinn here.  I just went through something very similar with a guy just like John and we had the same discussion when deciding to ultimately end it.  He was 'too scared' of the risk of us not working that he wasn't willing to even try.  It was frustrating to say the least.  Relationships are partnerships, one person can't always be the one being flexible.  Also, sometimes it doesn't work but to never even give it a real shot is so frustrating.  

[John Glasby]

Brinn, I think you're right on most all points. What I'm really concerned with is the timing. I feel it's just too soon. For instance, if she and the new guy are still in a great honeymoon phase, I will fail. But, obviously, there's no way I can know and it's like throwing darts in the dark. 

However, if I keep my respectful distance, and reach out with a letter as I am leaving (assuming they're still together), I feel like that is something she can keep and think about come what may with this guy. There's no note of desperation or compelling her to make a decision right now. It's just a mea culpa that I really blew it in not recognizing how fortunate I was that she wanted to be my wife, and letting her know that I will continue to love her, on this side of the world or the other. 

There are only two outcomes. She reads it, doesn't care and never reaches out. Or she is touched by it, and one day reaches out. I feel like that's the more sensible course, and more respectful of her as a person trying to find the right path in life. 

Now, the wildcard is if they break up while I'm still here. But I'll cross that bridge if it presents itself. 

[BrinnM]

32 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

Neither were the three girls this guy dated in the last several months before her.

Now, the wildcard is if they break up while I'm still here. But I'll cross that bridge if it presents itself. 

OK, this keeps coming up, so I want to add to my previous post that I am worried that you're too passive here.  Her current BF is a womanizer. Or you think he is. OK, so what? It's irrelevant. Don't use this guys' failed relationships as an excuse for waiting, as in "they'll end up broken up anyway, so I'll wait that one out" ........ You are literally putting your future in that man's hands. Whatever he decides, will decide your destiny? Really? You can't possibly be OK with that. What if they stay together, because he is tired of having six meaningless flings on an annual basis? What if he's ready for marriage and family now that he's played the filed for years with several secretaries? This could really backfire. You could also be right, though, he might continue his unstable, fun lifestyle with multiple women, and he could break up with your ex because he gets tired of her, but do you really want to wait for that? What if it never happens? I cannot understand how a grown man does not want to be in control of his own future. Please rethink this. It's like waiting for other people to make your life decisions.

Edited May 11, 2022 by BrinnM

[Wiseman2]

59 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

I was totally unwilling to move on my "no-marriage" thing. I've said many times, I don't blame her at all for taking control of her future and ending a relationship that was not going to give here what she wanted.

Exactly. No one wants to be in a dead-end relationship so parting ways was  inevitable.

[glows]

Gently, you are better off taking a breather and using the time to collect yourself.

Reconciliation based on pain and loss is not actual reconciliation. It's based on filling a void and withdrawal. I'd be careful that it's not so much about your ego than it is about loving someone because while no one can judge your love or what you felt for her, the way she broke up with you and ended the relationship to find someone fairly soon suggests that you didn't treat her well or the way that she would have wanted in a relationship. She would have rather take her risks with someone else than continue the relationship she had with you. 

Don't live in denial or deny yourself the blunt truth that you just didn't treat her well, not the way she wanted or felt happy with. You can keep learning from that and bettering yourself. Try not to swing to extremes from being hesitant or avoiding marriage to swinging to the other end and thinking of proposing to her.

I mentioned taking care of your mental health. That starts in the day to day, finding routines that are meaningful to you and I also mentioned being humble way back to my first post in the thread. Be active in your community and find more purpose than being in a relationship or trying to recover this loss based on a knee jerk reaction to pain. Don't do anything you regret. Lastly, I mentioned she may not be the right woman for you in the big picture. Take one day at a time and slow down, heal and carry on with your plans to move. Find happiness and stability in your own life before inviting anyone into it.

[John Glasby]

3 hours ago, glows said:

Gently, you are better off taking a breather and using the time to collect yourself.

Reconciliation based on pain and loss is not actual reconciliation. It's based on filling a void and withdrawal. I'd be careful that it's not so much about your ego than it is about loving someone because while no one can judge your love or what you felt for her, the way she broke up with you and ended the relationship to find someone fairly soon suggests that you didn't treat her well or the way that she would have wanted in a relationship. She would have rather take her risks with someone else than continue the relationship she had with you. 

Don't live in denial or deny yourself the blunt truth that you just didn't treat her well, not the way she wanted or felt happy with. You can keep learning from that and bettering yourself. Try not to swing to extremes from being hesitant or avoiding marriage to swinging to the other end and thinking of proposing to her.

I mentioned taking care of your mental health. That starts in the day to day, finding routines that are meaningful to you and I also mentioned being humble way back to my first post in the thread. Be active in your community and find more purpose than being in a relationship or trying to recover this loss based on a knee jerk reaction to pain. Don't do anything you regret. Lastly, I mentioned she may not be the right woman for you in the big picture. Take one day at a time and slow down, heal and carry on with your plans to move. Find happiness and stability in your own life before inviting anyone into it.

I'm sorry, glows, but you're way off base asserting that I "didn't treat her well." We had a very affectionate relationship and, as I've said, have never had an "argument." She literally said when we broke up, "I don't have a bad word to say about you."  Besides the sleep-over arrangement, which has been discussed, and of course the marriage issue, I honestly can't think of one thing that would be considered not treating her well, and frankly, I think it's pretty offensive to even suggest that based on what - that she broke up with me and moved on quickly?  She broke up with me because the relationship "had no future" as she put it, and I have explained that she has a pattern of getting with a new partner quickly after a breakup, just as she did with me. 

Sorry, but I'll accept a lot of criticism for my immature stance on marriage, but I draw the line at the allegation that I mistreated her. We had a very supportive, loving relationship. It just lacked the commitment that she wanted. 

[glows]

1 minute ago, John Glasby said:

I'm sorry, glows, but you're way off base asserting that I "didn't treat her well." We had a very affectionate relationship and, as I've said, have never had an "argument." She literally said when we broke up, "I don't have a bad word to say about you."  Besides the sleep-over arrangement, which has been discussed, and of course the marriage issue, I honestly can't think of one thing that would be considered not treating her well, and frankly, I think it's pretty offensive to even suggest that based on what - that she broke up with me and moved on quickly?  She broke up with me because the relationship "had no future" as she put it, and I have explained that she has a pattern of getting with a new partner quickly after a breakup, just as she did with me. 

Sorry, but I'll accept a lot of criticism for my immature stance on marriage, but I draw the line at the allegation that I mistreated her. We had a very supportive, loving relationship. It just lacked the commitment that she wanted. 

Not treating her well falls within lacking enough commitment. It doesn't mean verbal or physical abuse or hurting someone in that sense. I think you've misunderstood what I wrote. You were fully aware that she wanted more out of the relationship but decided to continue regardless based on what you wanted, not fully considering perhaps what she wanted (more commitment). That is neglect or not really listening to one's partner.

[John Glasby]

4 minutes ago, glows said:

Not treating her well falls within lacking enough commitment. It doesn't mean verbal or physical abuse or hurting someone in that sense. I think you've misunderstood what I wrote. You were fully aware that she wanted more out of the relationship but decided to continue regardless based on what you wanted, not fully considering perhaps what she wanted (more commitment). That is neglect or not really listening to one's partner.

No, that is two people who want different things - one of whom spelled out clearly his position on the first night of the relationship. You can paint me the bad actor in this if you want, but let's remember the facts at least. She either was or pretended to be fine with that position in the beginning but changed. The fact that I didn't change my position to accommodate doesn't make me the villain here. It represents two people who wanted different things and broke up because of it. 

[glows]

5 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

No, that is two people who want different things - one of whom spelled out clearly his position on the first night of the relationship. You can paint me the bad actor in this if you want, but let's remember the facts at least. She either was or pretended to be fine with that position in the beginning but changed. The fact that I didn't change my position to accommodate doesn't make me the villain here. It represents two people who wanted different things and broke up because of it. 

The eventual fall out was based on wanting different things. I'm afraid that it's very black and white in your mind at the moment. Not in a relationship versus being in a relationship with her. You're experiencing a loss and seeing another man with your ex so I'm sure there are all kinds of emotions at play. I think your ego is more bruised than anything but this will heal with time. I'm very empathetic to your plight but I don't think you're doing yourself a service believing that there's a second chance. 

Ultimately all this is speculation on whether she has any feelings for you and it's up to her to rekindle anything with you if she would be single. The issue is she isn't (at the moment). I think it's harmful to your overall health to think of getting back together with her. 

I can't help but wonder if the helplessness and feelings of intense pain and lack of direction, living removed from home and not having made this place your home, is a combination that's pushing you to these thoughts. Myself and others have suggested to volunteer or partake in other activities and be involved with the community but you haven't responded to those suggestions. Maybe when you move you'll be able to find more grounding and find a place you can call home. It's possible she became your "home" and you have strong feelings of displacement, a very unnerving and uncertain feeling. Her loss represents more than just the loss of a relationship.

[TooLegitToQuit]

Hi John,

As someone who had gone through something quite similar when I was much younger--I think I am not that far off in age from you now, your story really resonated with me. As yourself, I had dated someone who throughout most of our time together wanted to move things along further and much faster than I did, until she suddenly did not, and broke up with me. Similar to you, I had thought she and I had a great relationship. As with your ex, my ex quickly moved on to someone else. 

If you want to fight to win her back, I say go for it. I know some people will disagree with me, but the way I see it, you have one life and you will regret not doing what you can. You don't owe her new guy anything. Now, she may tell you that it is too late and that she has moved on, and if it comes to that, it will smart, and also, you will have to respect that. In that regard, I think Brinn's advice above on this page telling you what you've told the forum--how she was the one who made you change your mind about marriage and you cannot imagine yourself living without her. Again, there is a good chance that it will not work and that will hurt. But you'll be able to handle that.

But, meanwhile, you are being far too passive.  I think your plan to send her this letter and hope that it will keep the door for her to come back to you is...just not realistic. What is far more likely is that if things do not work out with her current guy, she will likely move on to someone else. Let's look at how she is likely looking back at your time together. I hate to say this, but she will not be carrying this torch for you in her heart. Yes you were kind and supportive, you were a stand-up guy, and you and she had some fun memories. All great things, and there is that. But in all the time you were together, your relationship hardly progressed past the 3-month mark. That is pretty strong evidence on her end that you and she did not have this epic love affair after all.  Why would she be longing to come back to that? 

And even if she does find herself missing you, why should she be the one to come back to you? I mean, from the details of this story--scaling back your nights together, it almost sounds like YOU were the one breaking up with HER.

Anyways, I'd recommend giving your ex a call. Don't beg and don't plead, but state your truth. It is a long shot, but it may work. And do it SOONER, MUCH SOONER, rather than later. The idea of waiting for her 'honeymoon period' to end with her new guy is silly, in fact the longer they see each other the more serious the relationship will become. Also, a call out of the blue say a year from now from 'somebody whom she used to know' will just be weird. 

I still remember that phone call in July 2007 I made to her a year after we had broken up, to 'see how she was doing'. It went straight to voicemail. She then emailed me back telling me that she was getting married next week--the guy she had moved on with after she and I had broken up I believe--and to please not contact her again. That one smarted.

Anyways I wish you the best and I hope you come back to this thread. 

 

  

Edited May 13, 2022 by TooLegitToQuit

[John Glasby]

TooLegit, thank you for that thoughtful response and for sharing your own story, I really appreciate it. 

I really do understand your and Brinn's counsel to act now and tell her how I feel. And in a perfect world I would agree - or perhaps if I knew only what you know of the story, I think I would recommend the same thing. But I will try to provide a little more color that tells me making a move like that now would be much more likely to fail than succeed. 

First, when we last met, when she collected her stuff, it was about five weeks since the breakup, and I know she and the new guy were together the weekend before -  possibly for the first time. I sensed a toughness in her that I'd rarely if ever seen. We had a talk and she was listening to me explain how horrible my father was in marriage, and later how I'd tried unsuccessfully to find a way she could come to America without us being married, etc., and she was not indignant or hostile, but she was also not moved in any way. For instance, when I mentioned living together in the US, she rightly pointed out that even here I scaled us back to one night a week sleepovers and said, "You can say you want to live together, but your actions said the opposite." Fair point. My point is, she had clearly turned off on me and was moved on. She did cry a bit in the middle of the conversation, and cried pretty hard when we parted ways as she was leaving, but she was clearly in a new relationship and not interested in dealing with our issues. She was free of that stress at that point. 

Second, if I put myself in her shoes, having broken up with someone who was not committing to me and giving me no future, and now in those wonderful early weeks/months of a relationship with someone spending lots of money on me and making trips together, etc., and then suddenly receiving an "I've changed my mind" message from me, I don't see any way she choses me over him. Not only does she have to be convinced I'm sincere and want marriage, but I'm essentially asking her to create all sorts of drama, break up with someone who an hour before she was planning trips with and being happy, then immediately get back with me. That is a huge ask with a high drama quotient in such a small community. From a stress standpoint, I don't see how she goes for that. It's like - do you want to have a nice trip to France next month or would you like to have a massive stress sandwich? To me, their honeymoon phase is the worst possible time to try to seek a second chance. The contrast between old/stress and new/fun is too great.

From my standpoint, if their relationship ends before I leave, then I can have a conversation with her and let her know how her loss has changed me and how I want her in my life for good. Then, there is no pressure on her, and frankly, given her clear need to always be in a relationship, I think it increases my odds she'd want to get together again, this time with no limits. On the other hand, if they're still together when I leave, a letter communicates the same information and opens a door (hopefully) for reconnection down the road when she leaves here. Or possibly stays in her mind if/when she starts realizing this guy is a womanizer and will only hurt her in the end - maybe it motivates her to end it. 

But making a play for good and all while she's 2-3 months into a relationship with this guy could very easily result in not only rejection, but a lot of people I have to work with and see regularly knowing that I went asking for a second chance and was rejected, and frankly, if I try to imagine a way my pain over losing her could be made even worse - that's it. 

I hope this makes sense. Everything is a risk - what I'm factoring is that my chances of success are better if I let her get this relationship out of her system without my interference. I know that's not the romance movie scenario, but I think it's the more realistic given the circumstances. 

John

[TooLegitToQuit]

John, respectfully I have to disagree with your reasoning here.

 

1. It's not about the holiday in France next month, it is instead whether there is still enough love left for you to give it another chance. Waiting is NOT in your favor here.

2. Calling her is a much bolder riskier move than sending her a letter. You realize that means calling her works in your favor, right? By calling, you are saying that you care enough to put yourself out there. Even if she says no, she just may be going back to think about your phone call. It is as what @BrinnM said earlier.

3. She may say no to your call and if that's the case you will respect that. That you called her will not be broadcasted far and wide over your small town. Everyone else has their own problems and drama to deal  with.

Whatever the outcome of the phone call, you will handle it. Just as you are handling your breakup.

4. As I said in my previous post, if you do nothing or just send a letter, she will not be circling back to you should she and this new guy do not work out. The reality is that you will by then just be somebody in her past. By then she also will have a new group of friends and probably will get with them.

 

Of course it is your life and your call what to do. I'm only giving you advice though, that I wish I got at the time. At one point I could have written a post like your last, now I see how it's not the way things are.

Edited May 13, 2022 by TooLegitToQuit

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, John Glasby said:

if they're still together when I leave, a letter communicates the same information and opens a door

Don't buy into those "get your ex back" scams that recommend sending letters.

Do not put anything in writing. She could show her friends, BF or take t to the police a s evidence of staking/harassment. 

Write out your feelings and talk to your therapist about it.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Wiseman2

[glows]

I'm not sure what you're looking for on the forum if you're certain of your strategy.

If you're certain you want to reach out to her if she breaks up with her current boyfriend it's up to you and your call. No one can tell you not to do that. We can only offer what we think about that suggestion. I would think a letter is fairly trite after the break up but it's a last resort also for you so I can see why you may think it's an option. 

If considering that route, I think it'll also be mindful to think about what state she might be in after breaking up (hypothetically) with Guy #2 within a short period of time. Would she agree to be with you for you or because she's just lonely? Those are thoughts that would be crossing my mind, also not a situation that is ideal or something I'd personally want to involve myself in.

[TooLegitToQuit]

John, what do you want? Only you can answer that.

 

If it is to get your ex back, then you calling her SOON has a chance of working. It's worked successfully for others in similar situations before. I can also tell you though that waiting is no bueno, and that your idea of sending a letter will not work and will not have the desired effect either.

[John Glasby]

2 minutes ago, TooLegitToQuit said:

John, what do you want? Only you can answer that.

 

If it is to get your ex back, then you calling her SOON has a chance of working. It's worked successfully for others in similar situations before. I can also tell you though that waiting is no bueno, and that your idea of sending a letter will not work and will not have the desired effect either.

TooLegit, I appreciate your trying to help, but realistically, you can't make statements like that - you simply don't know what effect a letter will have, or whether taking action sooner rather than later will have a better chance of working. It's all guesswork. We're dealing with human beings and emotions and circumstances and a million other variables. This is not a mathematical equation. 

I appreciate that you think your suggestion has the best chance of success, but being here in the midst of it, and knowing her, I simply feel it would not work. 

John 

[Wiseman2]

17 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

 - you simply don't know what effect a letter will have, or whether taking action sooner rather than later will have a better chance of working.

Why intrude on her and her BF happiness? Even if you beg  her to marry you and claim you're a changed man and the other things these "get your ex back" sites recommend to state in these letters, you are leaving the area soon, so while you may believe it's very random but if that's the case it could backfire as well, no?

Edited May 13, 2022 by Wiseman2

[TooLegitToQuit]

But John, do you really know her and know what works? I mean, how did you end up here in the first place? A lot of this thread was coming to terms with the fact that the way she saw your relationship is probably different from how you saw the relationship. Not to mention that she ended up with someone you could not have seen her go for too.

I'm not piling on, I'm actually really rooting for you to get back with your ex, if that is what you want. And, I had screwed up myself!

And NO, not everyone is the same, and there is absolutely NO guarantee that calling her as BrinnM and I suggested will work. But, you do notice that those of us who rooting for you to get back are giving you similar advice....

The woman you knew, the one who was attracted to you from the beginning and was happy just to be with you and was even willing to go by your timeline, even when you were not leading the relationship all that well, is no more. She may--or may not--still have some embers but they're losing heat every day. She may--or she may not--be moved if you were to call her soon. It could already be too little too late. If you wait too long though, she is probably going to get over you completely with time--months not years.

 

Do whatever you want with this...

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by TooLegitToQuit

[John Glasby]

I just don't think the "embers" analogy is right. I think she snuffed the embers before she broke up with me. I think what's needed for us - if there is to be an "us" in the future" - is a completely new relationship built on the premise that marriage is the goal, and I think that relationship has to begin like a clean slate, not a messy "second chance" at fixing what we had.  

Again, sorry to repeat, but I'd literally be asking her to break-up with a guy who she may very well be quite high on at the moment and return to me based on - a phone call? I just think that's fantasy. Rather, I think she could respect the fact that I've specifically not interfered with her life after the breakup (in fact, I said goodbye with class) and then came back into her life after much thoughtful reflection inquiring if there is a future for us? Not as a "me or him" decision, but as a more positive proposal that reflects growth on my part. 

Look - either way - the odds are slim. I'm simply using my best judgement knowing what I know on the ground here. I am 100% convinced a phone call would be futile and only bring me negative consequences. 

John

[TooLegitToQuit]

What if though, instead of her respecting that you walked away as you did, she instead sees your behavior as you not caring enough to fight for her and the relationship? You can still both say your peace and then respect her wishes. And....she may say no now and then come back to you later on.

Meanwhile, there is a chance that she may not really be on Cloud 9, she could just be doing her best to be getting over you. She may be doing her best to be putting up appearances of being thrilled with her life now, to do just that.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by TooLegitToQuit

[John Glasby]

TooLegit, again, when she broke up with me, I don't believe she wanted me to "fight" for the relationship, she was past that point.  And hypotheticals don't make me any more likely to act now. In fact, I could offer some hypotheticals that support not acting now.

For instance, "what if" I make a call ... and that call is received right after a wonderful weekend of wining and dining and great sex and a Skype call with her family and him and making plans for a trip to France, etc., etc., etc. ... Do you think that call from me is going to prompt her to call him up (or possibly turn to him in bed) and break up, then explain to her sister and family and everyone we know that she's back with me? Does that seem realistic?  

For every "what if" on the positive side, there's one on the negative side. I really don't think she's nursing a broken heart by being with him, I think she's trying to find a husband and hoping he's it. He's young (her age), successful, plenty of money, likes to party - I suspect she's thinking if she can tame his womanizing, she's got herself a winner. I think acting now would put pressure on her that she only resents and result in a big "No" and putting me in a weak position that ensures she never wants to be with me again. 

We could debate the "what if" scenarios all day, but again, I get one chance to make a case for us getting back together, and I just don't think now is the right time. 

John

 

[TooLegitToQuit]

Well, I respect that you've made your decision on this. I'm still rooting for you just the same, friend. I do hope you stay here and keep us posted!

Edited May 14, 2022 by TooLegitToQuit

[John Glasby]

25 minutes ago, TooLegitToQuit said:

Well, I respect that you've made your decision on this. I'm still rooting for you just the same, friend. I do hope you stay here and keep us posted!

Thank you very much, we'll say how the weeks ahead play out. I'll let you know.