Heartbroken, and I deserve it

[Annama]

How are you John? How are things with you?

[John Glasby]

Hi Annama, 

I would say nothing has really changed much for me. I'm still kind of in a state of suspended animation. There was only one notable thing that's happened since I was here last. 

In mid-May, my ex and her new guy booked a two-day trip on a company sponsored excursion within the country. About 20 people. Turns out one of my best friends and his wife were also on the trip (my ex knows them well from when we were a couple). There's no way she would have known this beforehand. My friend said she introduced the guy, but then they pretty much kept a distance from my friend and his wife the rest of the trip, save for once when they were all in an SUV together. He said the guy was really a "cold fish" and didn't speak once, which he noticed was the case even when they were around others. Said he kind of faded into the background. He also commented that there was none of the joking or lovey-dovey personal interaction you'd generally see in a newish couple. In general, he said the guy was "super reserved" the whole time. 

Who knows what this means (if anything). Maybe he was uncomfortable being around a friend of mine. Maybe he wasn't having a good time. But my friend and his wife are super fun and enjoyable to be around. If it had been me in his shoes, I would have made a point of trying to win them over with an engaging personality, just to disarm the awkwardness of the situation.  I couldn't help think, at some point, the thought had to occur to my ex what a different experience it would have been if I'd been there. But it's all cold comfort - it still felt kind of nice to hear though. Doesn't fit his reputation as a womanizing lawyer though. 

I am going to extend my time here by a few months given the current economic situation (and potential for a recession). Perhaps as long as next June, not sure. But I've just kind of settled into the fact that they're together (three months now), and if they break up, at some point I reckon I'll find out and decide what to do then. I go back and forth whether I want to get back together or not. I'll cross that bridge if it comes to that.  

Thanks,

John

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, John Glasby said:

 I've just kind of settled into the fact that they're together (three months now), and if they break up, at some point I reckon I'll find out and decide what to do then. I go back and forth whether I want to get back together or not. I'll cross that bridge if it comes to that. 

Strongly consider not wasting too much time with hopes and dreams of getting back together. There's nothing wrong with taking a break from dating/romance while you emotionally process your break up, but suggest that once that's complete you resolve to move on. This will prevent you from wasting month/years on "hopes" that will probably never come to fruition. What you want may have little to do with what she does, quite possibly permanently. Most relationships end and most of those ends are permanent ones. That's something one has to face.

If you move on, you are in a better position. IF she actually "comes back" and you happen to be single, you can take it up with her then. If she doesn't, which is probably much more likely, you'll eventually have a wonderful new partner.

There was a poster here who used to say "don't spend too much time smoking from the hopium pipe" which I think can be great advice at times.

[John Glasby]

I agree with your sentiment, in general, but I do think there is a crucial difference in this particular case in that she broke up with me because I did not want marriage - there were no other major problems. The fact that I have changed my mind (or am open to the possibility) is something she is unaware of. 

I would never expect her to come back to me if she thought I was still opposed to getting married - there would be no point. But if they break up, I would let her know that's no longer the case and she could then at least make an informed decision. 

So there's no "Coming back" I'm hoping for. There would have to be a completely new start, working toward the same goal. 

[mark clemson]

Unless she knows (and genuinely believes) you've changed your stance on marriage, IMO she's unlikely to even come looking. This seems to have been as much a practical "life goal" decision as a decision of the heart. Even if she does find out, she may be reluctant to "throw good money after bad" in an effort that may not pan out.

The new guy MAY be getting nervous e.g. due to expectations/pressure from her. Does he really want to make the leap with her? Not sure, but hearing that "I left my previous partner because they didn't want to get married" does set a tone...

IF she does happen to come back to you without knowing, your announcement may sound like music to her ears. However, I'd think she'd expect relatively swift action in that case, again so as to not be throwing good money after bad.

[John Glasby]

Hi all, John here, the OP.  I'm not going to lie - today was rough. It's my birthday, and I'm traveling alone in Europe. I figured there was a 50/50 chance she might text me a quick "happy birthday" - we haven't communicate since she collected her stuff in March and I left her that nice letter a couple days after. 

It hurts as bad as I expected that after 4.5 years together, and ending on an affectionate note, not a hostile one, she couldn't bring herself to say "happy birthday." There's one of two things at play, I guess - either she interpreted my letter, in which I said, "I'll bother you no more and exit stage left" to mean I never want to speak to her again, or in her eyes, she's so far moved on with the new guy I don't even exist anymore. I suspect it's more of the latter. She strikes me as the kind of girl to throw a switch and never look back in any way. It hurts so much because this time last year, she'd collected a video of my family and friends back home whom she'd never even met for my 50th. One year later, she can't even say "happy birthday."

Just wanted to vent. More than three months out and clearly, she still has a hold of my heart even though she's with someone new and appears to have left me in the dustbin of history. How it came to this, I don't think I'll ever fully grasp. I mean, I understand I built the relationship on a foundation of sand with my lack of marital commitment, and she simply took control of her life and ended it. But the way she ended it so abruptly and so resolutely and replaced me with someone else has just left me emotionally damaged. I can only hope time will heal this wound in some way.

I long to have her back, even though I know it would never be the same. What a horrible place to be, emotionally. ... I guess this answers my question though of whether I should message her happy birthday next month. 

John
 

Edited June 13, 2022 by John Glasby

[mark clemson]

It's sad and "on/off" folks can be rough on people who's minds and emotions don't work that way.

To be fair to her, contact with you (a major Ex) might not be seen positively by her new BF. So she might have avoided it for that reason (or that on top of other reasons).

It's also true that "staying friends" when one person still harbors strong feelings isn't really fair to that person. If you become or are seen as an "orbiter" - that is a position that tends to garner little respect from people who have options.

This can be easier said than done, but I'd suggest you try to process this emotionally with as much speed as you can muster, and move on. Once you have a new woman in your life, whether she sends a happy b-day note or not will be of much less concern to you...

Edited June 13, 2022 by mark clemson

[John Glasby]

I'm definitely not an "orbiter" - I haven't reached out once even in the months since. And we're still technically "friends" on FB, though I don't see her feed anymore since I unfollowed for my own sanity, and she doesn't "like" anything I post anymore. It's strange though, she's still a member of my rock band's "group page" and hasn't turned off the feed or unfollowed (I can see who sees the posts) so I guess she doesn't hate me enough to remove that from her life. 

I think you nailed it with the "on/off" type vs. the people like me who love more deeply than they even realize and can't move on so readily. Months out and I still can't even imagine trying to be with someone else. I've always been a sensitive guy (which she used to speak of with affection) and that's really proving to be my undoing in this case. I feel like I'm living through a divorce and she's off having the time of her life and doesn't even remember. 

It's funny, but I recalled today something out of the blue. I remember once she said - not at my prompting or anything - that she felt she needed to work on her empathy. And in hindsight, given how she's handled breaking up with me - I can see that she does lack empathy to some degree. In matters of the heart, I think she's all in until she feels she's not going to get what she wants or deserves, then she can be as steely and "cold" as any girl I've ever known. Seeing that turn in her has really been traumatic for me. Like seeing your beloved pet snarl at you and realizing you're dealing with someone entirely different.  

Edited June 13, 2022 by John Glasby

[basil67]

5 hours ago, John Glasby said:

She strikes me as the kind of girl to throw a switch and never look back in any way
 

Kindly, she didn't just throw a switch.  Yes, she was 100% to start with - but each time you told her that you didn't want marriage, or only saw her once a week she turned off a little.  She went from 100% to 95 to 90 to 85....and when she got to 20% she had no affection left and and knew that staying was pointless.  I know she moved on quickly, but by the time a person is ground down enough to hit 20%, it is really, really easy to move on.   Same with the empathy part.  If you're down to 20% caring, there's no empathy left to give....it's more like "meh, they made their bed, so now they can sleep in it".   

I think that On/Off is actually very rare in long term relationships.  It just seems that way to the person who wasn't in tune with how bad their partner was feeling about not getting their needs met.   

[ExpatInItaly]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Kindly, she didn't just throw a switch.  Yes, she was 100% to start with - but each time you told her that you didn't want marriage, or only saw her once a week she turned off a little

I was about to say the same thing. This wasn't a sudden flip of the switch at all. 

It is better she didn't reach out, John. It might have given you all kinds of false hope. It seems to me that was just ready to move on and that - for her - doesn't include birthday or holiday greetings. It's a painful reminder that it's over, but it's best that she didn't inadvertently rekindle hope in you that she might come back. 

[John Glasby]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

Kindly, she didn't just throw a switch.  Yes, she was 100% to start with - but each time you told her that you didn't want marriage, or only saw her once a week she turned off a little.  She went from 100% to 95 to 90 to 85....and when she got to 20% she had no affection left and and knew that staying was pointless.  I know she moved on quickly, but by the time a person is ground down enough to hit 20%, it is really, really easy to move on.   Same with the empathy part.  If you're down to 20% caring, there's no empathy left to give....it's more like "meh, they made their bed, so now they can sleep in it".   

I think that On/Off is actually very rare in long term relationships.  It just seems that way to the person who wasn't in tune with how bad their partner was feeling about not getting their needs met.   

I see what you're saying, and agree with you in theory, but I think the declining percentage happened a lot more quickly than you describe. I think my retirement talk last fall probably initiated it. But Christmas seemed to be a real turning point, and when she returned from being home with her family, she seemed different. She said as much that her sister really questioned what she was doing. I think the month of January is when she disengaged and prepared to leave. Feb. 4, she did the deed. 

It just hurts to be so close to someone for so long (the longest relationship of my life) and then nothing, while forced to see her replace me almost instantly. We literally used to exchange cute little goodnight messages by text every night at bedtime for almost five years, and now we can't even say "happy birthday." 

As ridiculous as I was in thinking we could have a relationship while we were here and then go our separate ways, I never could have imagined we'd end as anything less than friends. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

17 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

It just hurts to be so close to someone for so long (the longest relationship of my life) and then nothing

Yes, it's a strange feeling. 

I would wager most of us have been there at one point or another. But, it's a step in the direction toward letting go. Closing this chapter. I have ended a couple long-term (and cohabitating) relationships in my life, and it was always strange that first year afterward when the annual holidays/birthdays passed and there's little or no communication. But then I found it got easier, and it cleared my emotional landscape, so to speak. I knew we weren't going to remain friends, and that we would eventually drift apart. 

It's better this way. I promise. 

[basil67]

 

1 hour ago, John Glasby said:

I see what you're saying, and agree with you in theory, but I think the declining percentage happened a lot more quickly than you describe. I think my retirement talk last fall probably initiated it. But Christmas seemed to be a real turning point, and when she returned from being home with her family, she seemed different. She said as much that her sister really questioned what she was doing. I think the month of January is when she disengaged and prepared to leave. Feb. 4, she did the deed. 

Those lost percentage points were happening before Christmas, but yes, they did take a sharp turn.  I'd lay money that she was already confiding in sis about how disappointed she was about there never being a proposal and so the sister gave her a good heart to heart.  She would have said something along the lines of "how many times do you have to raise the topic before you realise he's not going to propose?" types of discussion.  And then your ex had that light bulb moment.   Thing is, if all was fine and dandy, the sister wouldn't have had anything to discuss.   

1 hour ago, John Glasby said:

It just hurts to be so close to someone for so long (the longest relationship of my life) and then nothing, while forced to see her replace me almost instantly. We literally used to exchange cute little goodnight messages by text every night at bedtime for almost five years, and now we can't even say "happy birthday."  As ridiculous as I was in thinking we could have a relationship while we were here and then go our separate ways, I never could have imagined we'd end as anything less than friends. 

While the idea of staying friends sounds nice, the reality is that your choice to stay in contact with her is the very reason you witnessed her picking herself up and moving on.  Trying to be friends just sticks the knife in and twists it harder.  And besides, nobody's new partner wants their ex hanging around or sending birthday wishes.  When you move on and find a new partner (and I'm sure you will), they won't want this ex who broke your heart hanging around, texting or sending birthday messages.  

For what it's worth, for a year or so after ending long term relationships, I'd remember their birthday (didn't get in contact though) but it really wasn't that long before it would slip by and I wouldn't remember.  And now I can't even remember the date.  I can't remember the wedding date with my first husband either.  In the grand scheme of things, birthdays and anniversaries of exes are meaningless.  

 

[John Glasby]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

 

Those lost percentage points were happening before Christmas, but yes, they did take a sharp turn.  I'd lay money that she was already confiding in sis about how disappointed she was about there never being a proposal and so the sister gave her a good heart to heart.  She would have said something along the lines of "how many times do you have to raise the topic before you realise he's not going to propose?" types of discussion.  And then your ex had that light bulb moment.   Thing is, if all was fine and dandy, the sister wouldn't have had anything to discuss.   

While the idea of staying friends sounds nice, the reality is that your choice to stay in contact with her is the very reason you witnessed her picking herself up and moving on.  Trying to be friends just sticks the knife in and twists it harder.  And besides, nobody's new partner wants their ex hanging around or sending birthday wishes.  When you move on and find a new partner (and I'm sure you will), they won't want this ex who broke your heart hanging around, texting or sending birthday messages.  

For what it's worth, for a year or so after ending long term relationships, I'd remember their birthday (didn't get in contact though) but it really wasn't that long before it would slip by and I wouldn't remember.  And now I can't even remember the date.  I can't remember the wedding date with my first husband either.  In the grand scheme of things, birthdays and anniversaries of exes are meaningless.  

 

To be fair, I think when I started talking about possibly retiring this year, that is when the penny dropped and the conversations with her sister probably started about "why are you wasting more time if you know he doesn't want to get married?"  It's understandable. For four year she thought I'd change my mind eventually, but the combo of that brief discussion we had sometime during Corona about marriage where I reiterated my 4-year old position that it's just not part of my plan and then subsequent talk of my actual departure forced the issue. I understand that. 

The real tragedy, for me, is that I see now how much she brought to my life, and if I'd have only had time to process this (i.e. what life without her feels like), I'm certain I would have asked her to be my wife. This whole thing is like a Twilight Zone episode with a twist ending that cuts like a knife. I am simply an immature fool who thought my independence meant more to me than anything in the world ... until I found out how lonely independence can feel. 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by John Glasby

[mark clemson]

When you're ready (which might be a little while yet), there's other fish in the sea...

[vla1120]

I'm reminded of that line from "When Harry Met Sally", when Sally finds out her ex is getting married and says "He just met her... She's supposed to be his transitional person, she's not supposed to be the ONE. All this time I thought he didn't want to get married. But, the truth is, he didn't want to marry me. He didn't love me."

There is some reason you did not want to marry her, OP. Now that she moved on quickly, you are picturing yourself with her long term, thinking she's the "one that got away." However, I think when you meet the right person, you won't feel anxious or be opposed to marriage. There'll be no doubt she is "the one" for you and you won't hesitate. 

Finally, I just went through a tough time with my daughter. She was getting ready to break up with her boyfriend. She had been talking about breaking up with him for weeks, now. They had a disagreement and he broke up with her the other night. She came right out and told me that she had expected to break up with him. She was angry he broke up with her. I think it's human nature, not to want to be the one who is "rejected."

Give yourself some time. You might find someone who will enhance your life in ways you never expected, and you'll wonder why you wasted any time pining after your ex.

[basil67]

8 hours ago, John Glasby said:

The real tragedy, for me, is that I see now how much she brought to my life, and if I'd have only had time to process this (i.e. what life without her feels like), I'm certain I would have asked her to be my wife. This whole thing is like a Twilight Zone episode with a twist ending that cuts like a knife. I am simply an immature fool who thought my independence meant more to me than anything in the world ... until I found out how lonely independence can feel. 

Respectfully, needing distance to realise that you wanted a future with her isn't the proposal a girl wants to receive.   It may well have given her pause.  

[Acacia98]

On 6/14/2022 at 5:12 PM, John Glasby said:

To be fair, I think when I started talking about possibly retiring this year, that is when the penny dropped and the conversations with her sister probably started about "why are you wasting more time if you know he doesn't want to get married?"  

Maybe it's just me, John Glasby, but from the little I've read about your ex-girlfriend here, I think that deep down inside, she's actually conflicted about the marriage thing. She sounds like the sort of person who says she wants marriage, kids, and the white picket fence but somehow "inexplicably" ends up in relationships with men who don't want those things. I may be wrong, but I don't think she'll marry the current guy. I think they'll eventually break up, maybe after she has a heart-to-heart with her sister or some other person. And then she'll subsequently date someone else who is reluctant to marry.

I think she has a lot of stuff to work on deep down inside, kind of like you do. 

I also get the impression that a big part of the reason why the end of your relationship hurts so much is that she moved on so quickly and completely to a new person. I've been there. And it wasn't the same kind of relationship situation. But it did leave me feeling that maybe what we had hadn't been that special to my ex after all. Of course that wasn't the case. Sometimes, when someone moves on that quickly, it is an indication that they did care a lot and they're doing their best to forget and move on. It's not the healthiest of ways to move on, but different people deal with these things differently.

I wish you the best in your efforts to recover and eventually start to move on. It took me two years after the end to start to feel like I wasn't dead inside again. So I believe you will get there too. Give yourself as much time as you need. Take this time to work on yourself. And above all, be kind to yourself and forgive yourself. You really weren't the villain you've cast yourself as. Your ex-girlfriend had agency when she was with you. She made choices, just like you did. You should certainly take responsibility for your part in things, but you should also allow her to take responsibility for hers.

[Annama]

Hi John

Happy birthday to you!

I am sure she was thinking about sending you wishes. I had a similar dilemma. Perhaps thats just easier. 

[John Glasby]

14 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

Maybe it's just me, John Glasby, but from the little I've read about your ex-girlfriend here, I think that deep down inside, she's actually conflicted about the marriage thing. She sounds like the sort of person who says she wants marriage, kids, and the white picket fence but somehow "inexplicably" ends up in relationships with men who don't want those things. I may be wrong, but I don't think she'll marry the current guy. I think they'll eventually break up, maybe after she has a heart-to-heart with her sister or some other person. And then she'll subsequently date someone else who is reluctant to marry.

I think she has a lot of stuff to work on deep down inside, kind of like you do. 

I also get the impression that a big part of the reason why the end of your relationship hurts so much is that she moved on so quickly and completely to a new person. I've been there. And it wasn't the same kind of relationship situation. But it did leave me feeling that maybe what we had hadn't been that special to my ex after all. Of course that wasn't the case. Sometimes, when someone moves on that quickly, it is an indication that they did care a lot and they're doing their best to forget and move on. It's not the healthiest of ways to move on, but different people deal with these things differently.

I wish you the best in your efforts to recover and eventually start to move on. It took me two years after the end to start to feel like I wasn't dead inside again. So I believe you will get there too. Give yourself as much time as you need. Take this time to work on yourself. And above all, be kind to yourself and forgive yourself. You really weren't the villain you've cast yourself as. Your ex-girlfriend had agency when she was with you. She made choices, just like you did. You should certainly take responsibility for your part in things, but you should also allow her to take responsibility for hers.

Acacia98, thanks for your insight. I do think she really wants to be married, thought not have children. Her younger sister got married a couple years ago, and just had a baby last year. Not to mention half the secretary colleagues of hers are engaged at present to other expats. And she'll be turning 39 next month - I think the combination of all this is making her focus on marriage now, as she has every right to. I do feel guilty for using up more than four years of her life when I knew she wanted to be married and knew I did not. But the affection was so strong, I was never going to be able to really "end it." It took her finally feeling pressured and resentful to pull the trigger. I agree that I think this relationship won't last, but I'm more inclined to believe he'll end it when he tires of her. That seems to be his protocol judging from the string of secretaries he's dated in the last few years. She knows these girls, so it's not like it would be a total surprise to her. But I expect that she's convinced she might be the one to "catch" him and is working hard to do that. Frankly, it hurts to think about, because I do care for her and don't want to see her hurt by anyone.

The thing you said about taking two years not to feel "dead inside" is something I can certainly relate to. That's how I feel. But then I think what a loser I must be - she and I were in the same relationship, and just a month later, she can be happily involved with a completely new guy, planning trips, etc., etc., and I'm stuck in the darkest period of my life trying to ride it out. I realize everyone is different and is on a different path - but I am a sensitive soul and wish, at times like this, I wasn't. Life would be so much easier. 

And to Annama - thank you, as well.  I'm sure she remembered it was my birthday and thought about it. But the more I think about it, the end of my letter to her months ago literally said, "I will bother you no more and exit stage left, cherishing the memories" etc. etc. I suspect for her, that meant goodbye, no more communication. And when I wrote it, I reckon it did. So, if I'm being generous, she probably thought sending a birthday message wouldn't be welcome. Or she just doesn't care. I'll never know. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by John Glasby

[Annama]

I will be honest John ...your goodbye line sounds slightly blase as it didnt bother you one bit. ...like you can just shake it off and go about your business 

 

 

[John Glasby]

On 6/16/2022 at 4:58 PM, Annama said:

I will be honest John ...your goodbye line sounds slightly blase as it didnt bother you one bit. ...like you can just shake it off and go about your business 

 

 

Annama, if you read the letter in its entirety, I think you'll see it was much more thoughtful than that. Knowing me, I doubt she felt like it was a blow off. But recall that when I wrote that letter, she had just started seeing someone else (unbeknownst to me at the time), so I doubt she gave the letter too much thought to begin with - she was focussed elsewhere. I was sincere in everything I said in the letter, and I trust that came through to her. But I could sense the wall she was putting up and felt it best to step away with class and kind words. 

It's weird. I was whining a few days ago that she didn't send me any sort of birthday greeting. Then three or four days later, out of the blue, she likes a post I made on FB regarding my travels through Europe. I'd been posting everyday from different places, she hadn't liked anything I posted since mid-February, a few days after the breakup. I'd assumed she turned my feed off (as I did hers). No earthly reason why she would like one random post and none before or since. Just weird. Here again, I'll never know. However, I took some comfort in the fact that at least she doesn't appear to hate me. 

[Annama]

Why would she hate you? She has absolutely no reason to hate you. 

Perhaps she saw your post and thought fondly of you. Who knows,  maybe honeymoon period in her relationship is fading away and her thoughts drifted toward you.

It is a nice thing that he saw you travelling, living your life.

Things can change. You never know. I am meeting my ex this weekend. 

[John Glasby]

Annama, it was a post from Amsterdam (where I used to live and where we went together a couple years ago on holiday). Maybe it was nostalgia (though I know she traveled there with the new guy just a couple months ago too, so ...) But I later posted something that showed a pic of my Amsterdam friends, who she met more than once, and she didn't like that post, so it really makes little sense. I was just glad to see she's capable of liking something anyway - would indicate a lack of animosity. 

That's great news about meeting with your ex!  I wish you every good luck and hope it goes well. I know the nerves that must be inherent with such a big meeting after such drama. I hope you get what you want and deserve.  

 

[Annama]

22 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

Annama, it was a post from Amsterdam (where I used to live and where we went together a couple years ago on holiday). Maybe it was nostalgia (though I know she traveled there with the new guy just a couple months ago too, so ...) But I later posted something that showed a pic of my Amsterdam friends, who she met more than once, and she didn't like that post, so it really makes little sense. I was just glad to see she's capable of liking something anyway - would indicate a lack of animosity. 

That's great news about meeting with your ex!  I wish you every good luck and hope it goes well. I know the nerves that must be inherent with such a big meeting after such drama. I hope you get what you want and deserve.  

 

Thank you for your kind words.

   Trust me, after such a long time,  she would not feel any resentment or even an ounce of a negative feeling towards you.

I dont believe there would be any animosity whatsoever. I think it is rather the opposite. She wont be liking lots of your posts now as that is not necessary. Liking one was just subtle.

Do you still think of her often?