Heartbroken, and I deserve it

[Mrsturgess]

the move is key. You need to get yourself out of the environment where you feel she's round every corner and you can't imagine anything else. Throw yourself into new stuff, go see old mates, do sport. This situation is incredibly hard I know, but your life isn't over because of this, people can and always do move on from anything basically, eventually you'll be over it and out there hanging out with new people and feeling way more positive, do the letters etc if you need to to help, but don't send them for sure if she's with somebody

[assertives]

If you haven't already, maybe consider journaling and now that things are opening up, perhaps plan a couple of solo trips like a eat pray love kinda thing? Or even just to take a hike out of town and people watch or something.

Another thing I would like to suggest is doing some volunteering work at an animal shelther or the hospital. Some thing to keep your mind off your misery, and keep you busy. I know alot of people who find travelling and volunteering helps put alot of things in perspective for them, and suddenly feel like their problems are so small in the grand scheme of things. 

Then of course there is therapy. If you are finding it hard to cope or navigate your emotions, having a neutral party to journey alongside with you, and help you find/develop better coping mechanisms can be quite helpful as well. What's done is done, at this point, try to focus your thoughts on moving forward and carving a new path ahead for you instead of ruminating on the what ifs and the could haves. You might need to make a conscious effort to stop your thoughts towards the past from replaying in your mind each time they creep up. Take one day at a time.

[vla1120]

On 5/9/2022 at 5:46 AM, John Glasby said:

Of course I've written a beautiful draft filled with romantic, heartfelt, truths, but I simply don't feel she could read it with an open heart - not while she's so clearly into someone new. I'll never send it.

I can see that writing is therapeutic for you. Even if you never send it, writing all of your emotions down will continue to help you process. You've mentioned in past posts that you're a bit of a control freak. I really think that much of this has to do with the fact that this came out of left field for you because you were content with the way things were. You expected the relationship would continue as-is until you left and you would figure out some sort of long distance arrangement until things probably slowly faded away. Because she switched gears on you, and pulled the rug out from under you, you are having a very difficult time processing what happened because it wasn't on your terms. 

Would it help you to think of this, instead, as a relationship (and ultimately, an outcome) that actually WAS devised on your terms? Even though the end was not on your terms, eventually you would have ended it because, at the time, you did not see longevity for this relationship and never intended to marry her. Actually, even the ending of the relationship WAS on your terms, since it was made clear to her there was no hope of marriage. Maybe that would help you process this. Or you can go with the realization that she must be with a man, and has a history of monkey branching from one to another because she cannot stand to be alone. Either way, you'll be leaving in about 4 months. Who knows what is waiting for you? Maybe this has all happened for a reason and you'll realize one day that she was, in fact, NOT the one for you. You really just need to open yourself to that possibility and think forward.

Edited May 10, 2022 by vla1120

[John Glasby]

assertives and vla1120, thank you for reading all that, and thanks for your wonderful suggestions, really. 

assertives, I am planning to go to Switzerland for a week in June to cover my birthday, so I'm hoping that will help clear my head a bit and calm the raw nerves. 

And vla1120, everything you said is true and accurate. I do realize I all but engineered the outcome of this relationship - but it always seemed a distant proposition, not something so real and painful. That was immaturity on my part. I honestly don't know for sure, but I think there's a likelihood that if we'd simply broken up and she remained unattached for even a month or two, I would have probably decided I wanted to marry her. It's hard to say, but there is a deep longing for her in my life. She was such a pleasure to be around and even though I know I took her for granted, I did truly love her. She was such a good companion. I was balancing this philosophical/idealistic desire not to be married with an actual relationship, and I just never could figure out how to square the two. I can't blame her for getting sick of playing along, waiting for the day when she'd find out I'm leaving. She seized her life back and she had every right.

Thank you all again. I'm going to ride the next four months out, but I tell you honestly, if she and the new guy break up in that time, I cannot promise I won't try to get back together with her with marriage on the table. I have never felt this devastated in my life, and either it's purely a psychological issue on my part, or her roots ran much deeper into me than I ever realized, or it's a combination of the two. But "you don't know what you've got until it's gone" is a cliche for a reason, and I certainly never imagined I'd be so miserable without her. The thought of wishing I'd married her for the rest of my life is not a pleasant prospect. If the worst outcome is that we get married and someday get divorced, I can't see that feeling any worse than what I'm going through now. And the converse might be a long happy life together. 

Only time will tell at this point, because I can't do anything. 

 

 

[glows]

1 hour ago, John Glasby said:

If the worst outcome is that we get married and someday get divorced, I can't see that feeling any worse than what I'm going through now.

You were avoiding marriage to avoid imagined pain or pain you had seen somewhere else. I think it is psychological and I'm sorry that you're having a hard time with this now, losing the one you loved. I wonder if you would have ever appreciated her as much if she hadn't left you. 

I tend to think that when someone leaves they've shown you they'd rather take that risk losing you permanently and it's not something that makes me run towards a person but draw away. The odd part is that you feel more drawn to her than repelled and that goes back to having felt like you didn't make the most out of your time with her, also related to those issues you have with marriage and commitment early on.

[John Glasby]

Well, if one assumes the reason she broke up with me is because I would not commit to her through marriage, that's different than if she just left me because she didn't want to be with me. That's two very different scenarios. 

[glows]

39 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

Well, if one assumes the reason she broke up with me is because I would not commit to her through marriage, that's different than if she just left me because she didn't want to be with me. That's two very different scenarios. 

The entire thread is you regretting that you didn't marry her or consider the relationship heading towards marriage which resulted in her leaving (both of you didn't see eye to eye on your future) and now having thoughts such as this: "I was balancing this philosophical/idealistic desire not to be married with an actual relationship, and I just never could figure out how to square the two. I can't blame her for getting sick of playing along, waiting for the day when she'd find out I'm leaving. She seized her life back and she had every right." They are one and the same, not two different scenarios. 

Do you mind elaborating or clarifying?

[John Glasby]

Sure. What I meant was that the "I don't want to marry" problem always seemed like something that would be reckoned with up around the bend, later, sometime a year or two from now. It never seemed like something I had to deal with in the present, while the relationship was daily and was always good. Immaturity caused me to just keep ignoring the marriage issue. 

Simply put, I kept pretending it was an issue for later, and she finally dealt with it herself. 

[glows]

2 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

Sure. What I meant was that the "I don't want to marry" problem always seemed like something that would be reckoned with up around the bend, later, sometime a year or two from now. It never seemed like something I had to deal with in the present, while the relationship was daily and was always good. Immaturity caused me to just keep ignoring the marriage issue. 

Simply put, I kept pretending it was an issue for later, and she finally dealt with it herself. 

There's also the possibility and I'm sure either I or someone else has already mentioned it that she just wasn't the right woman for you. Heartbreak is cruel and painful. In time the dust will clear and you'll be in a new town. She may have been a great companion and a good woman but just not the one who inspired you to more commitment.

[John Glasby]

Completely possible, and well stated. A very valid point.

[assertives]

 

2 hours ago, glows said:

I wonder if you would have ever appreciated her as much if she hadn't left you. 

This. The overwhelming feelings of wanting to marry her now might not be because you actually want that kind of future with her but is a result of loss and it no longer being an option to you.

If the breakup never happened, you would have likely continued to coast until you left and the relationship would slowly fade from the distance. This was your initial ideal ending which is very different from getting married, enmeshing your lives together, her moving to your country, and forming a family nucleus with you. I too feel like she just wasn't the right woman for you. 

[glows]

There's a world of possibilities opening up with the break up too. Keep as busy as humanly possible and take care of your mental health in the time being.

[John Glasby]

21 minutes ago, assertives said:

 

This. The overwhelming feelings of wanting to marry her now might not be because you actually want that kind of future with her but is a result of loss and it no longer being an option to you.

If the breakup never happened, you would have likely continued to coast until you left and the relationship would slowly fade from the distance. This was your initial ideal ending which is very different from getting married, enmeshing your lives together, her moving to your country, and forming a family nucleus with you. I too feel like she just wasn't the right woman for you. 

It's entirely possible. In a way, I feel like a drug addict suffering severe withdrawal and I simply want to stop the pain. Not the greatest circumstance for reasoned decision making, I'll grant you. I really do love her, though. Whether marriage would be a good decision, I just don't know. But if nothing else, I really do love her. That's not a reaction to the breakup, I knew I loved her all along, I just didn't want to be married and thought I would ultimately be fine without her one day. 

It's entirely possible I was more in love with having a loving girlfriend than I was with her as an individual. I don't know - these things are so psychologically complex and nuanced. Curiously, that may be why she gets into a new relationship immediately after one ends. She has to have a boyfriend or she's miserable. Only for me, I'm addicted to the feelings I had with her and can't imagine being with someone else right now; while she can get the same feeling by being with someone else and doesn't go through the withdrawals I'm dealing with. Who knows. When mind and heart combine, it's a really messy, complicated thing.

  

[assertives]

21 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

She has to have a boyfriend or she's miserable. Only for me, I'm addicted to the feelings I had with her and can't imagine being with someone else right now; while she can get the same feeling by being with someone else and doesn't go through the withdrawals I'm dealing with.

Like glows mentioned, a world of possibilities can open with a break up. You are assuming that she's in another relationship to replicate the feelings she had in your relationship with someone else, but that may not be the case though. Every new relationship brings about something new, a new hope of something exciting and different. She left because the relationship was not heading towards what she wanted in life, a new relationship with someone new brings about new beginnings that hopefully brings you closer to what you want in life. Perhaps she has tried enough and now she's ready to move on. 

I would say focus on your own healing and moving forward. Don't waste energy analysing how she's processing or not processing the break up, it will only set you back and keep you stuck.

 

 

[Venus080411]

1 hour ago, John Glasby said:

It's entirely possible I was more in love with having a loving girlfriend than I was with her as an individual.

Ouch.  This says a lot and it is best you let her go.  She deserves someone who loves her for her... not someone who loves what she can give them.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, John Glasby said:

Curiously, that may be why she gets into a new relationship immediately after one ends. She has to have a boyfriend or she's miserable. Only for me, I'm addicted to the feelings I had with her and can't imagine being with someone else right now; while she can get the same feeling by being with someone else and doesn't go through the withdrawals I'm dealing with. Who knows. When mind and heart combine, it's a really messy, complicated thing.  

I reckon you're overthinking her moving on.  Given she had so much time to think about ending it, she wouldn't have had withdrawals after the fact.  And from what you say, you didn't see her that much anyway, so being without you wouldn't have been a big change.   She had a month while she got used to the idea of being without you and then it was time for fun. Would you really want her twiddling her thumbs for no good reason?    I've been there and done that.  When I left, I wasn't sad and there were no withdrawals.  Rather I knew I'd done the right thing and felt the best I had in years.   

You say that you'd consider proposing to her if she was single again, but can you imagine how awful that proposal would be for her?   That she had to actually leave you to make you realise that you want to marry her?  This is not how marriage proposals are supposed to work.

 

[John Glasby]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

I reckon you're overthinking her moving on.  Given she had so much time to think about ending it, she wouldn't have had withdrawals after the fact.  And from what you say, you didn't see her that much anyway, so being without you wouldn't have been a big change.   She had a month while she got used to the idea of being without you and then it was time for fun. Would you really want her twiddling her thumbs for no good reason?    I've been there and done that.  When I left, I wasn't sad and there were no withdrawals.  Rather I knew I'd done the right thing and felt the best I had in years.   

You say that you'd consider proposing to her if she was single again, but can you imagine how awful that proposal would be for her?   That she had to actually leave you to make you realise that you want to marry her?  This is not how marriage proposals are supposed to work.

 

I don't think a marriage proposal from me would be an "awful" thing for her. There are plenty of couples who have broken up and gotten back together. If I had to lose her to motivate me to rise above my fears of marriage, so be it, I don't think that's an "awful" thing. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. 

[basil67]

11 minutes ago, John Glasby said:

I don't think a marriage proposal from me would be an "awful" thing for her. There are plenty of couples who have broken up and gotten back together. If I had to lose her to motivate me to rise above my fears of marriage, so be it, I don't think that's an "awful" thing. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. 

Breaking up and getting back together is one thing..I also know one or two couples who spent a few years apart while they were on different paths and got back together and married.  But her having mentioned it many times in the past, getting nowhere and having to break is a whole different level of breaking up before getting married.  Seriously, do you think this is anywhere near how women imagine their proposal and wedding to happen?

When I left my first husband, I'd been at him to change some things which were driving me away.  He refused and ignored what I was saying. So I eventually left.  Then he changed to what I'd wanted and tried to get me back.  It was seriously pathetic and I told him it was too late and have never looked back.  Naturally I can't speak for all women, but my view is that changes which only happen as a result of the woman's desperation count for nothing. 

If you do propose and she rolls her eyes and tells you it's too late and she's moved on, will you accept it graciously?

Edited May 11, 2022 by basil67

[John Glasby]

I'm not your former husband and this isn't the same situation. You're entitled to your opinion, as I said. 

[assertives]

I think what Basil is trying to say is that it's too little too late in referencing her ex husband and in your case, I do think it's probably too little too late to propose after all that has happened.

Frankly, it's probably already too late even before the break up happened. When she had to keep having conversations about marriage and you keeping your stance, she very likely died a little on the inside everytime it happened, and like you have admitted yourself, another talk about this would likely have changed nothing back then. It's only after losing her and feeling miserable that made you want to propose to her.

So it feels like you proposed not because you genuinely wanted that kind of a life with her, but because of the alternative, which is living without her. Which is like what Basil's ex hubs did, changing not because he wanted to but only because the alternative was losing his wife. This is not how women and perhaps even men envision how their marriage and proposal to happen. You want someone who is excited and can't wait to take the relationship to the next level and begin the next chapter with you on their own, and not with ultimatums, threats, forcing or feeling like they had no choice but to propose. You don't propose because it's what she wants, but because it's what you genuinely want too deep down as well.

Edited May 11, 2022 by assertives

[John Glasby]

assertives, I hear you and understand what you're saying. IF - and I have no intention of proposing while she's with someone - IF I ever did propose, it wouldn't be because I'm just willing to do what I have to to get her back. It would be because I realize the joy she brings to my life. It would have to be genuine on my part. 

IF that happens, it may indeed be too late, I understand that. I'm just working through possibilities in my mind.

But also, bear in mind, this is the girl who's said to me twice, "I don't see the big deal - you get married, and if it doesn't work, you get divorced." I don't think she's waiting on some prince charming to come along for a fairy tale proposal - I think she's pragmatic about it. 

[ExpatInItaly]

I think she lost attraction after having stayed in a relationship that wasn't meeting her needs, sadly. Eventually we start to emotionally drift away from a partner who just isn't there for us (in whichever manner that might be), and we lose interest. 

When you reach that point, offering marriage is moot. It's already done and dusted. 

[John Glasby]

Certainly could be the case. 

[BrinnM]

8 hours ago, John Glasby said:

she's pragmatic about it. 

Yes, perhaps. But you should’ve been as well, because she’s right. With every relationship, with every marriage, heck with every contract you take a chance and a risk. It’s how it’s done. Sorry it didn’t work out, but in my opinion it’s because you’ve been too “stiff” & too inflexible 

[John Glasby]

2 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

Yes, perhaps. But you should’ve been as well, because she’s right. With every relationship, with every marriage, heck with every contract you take a chance and a risk. It’s how it’s done. Sorry it didn’t work out, but in my opinion it’s because you’ve been too “stiff” & too inflexible 

Yeah, no I agree Brinn, I was totally unwilling to move on my "no-marriage" thing. I've said many times, I don't blame her at all for taking control of her future and ending a relationship that was not going to give here what she wanted. No blame at all. What could she do but fall out of love with me to survive? 

However, I'm not ready to concede that down the road, there's not a chance for us to have a second chance, if I've legitimately changed my mind about wanting to be married. I know she'd never consider it right now - not when she's with someone else. It's too soon and it would wreak of desperation and she'd be right to be suspicious. But down the road, I can see it being a possibility - or at least I can't rule it out. She doesn't hate me.