Not sure if I should end it (threads merged)

[PotatoHead]

7 minutes ago, glows said:

How do you mean she depends on you heavily? That stood out to me. Is the father of her kids in the picture?

He is, they share 50/50 also.  It's hard to explain but we both depend on each other in some ways.  She is currently trying to change her schedule in a manner that would require me to look after her kids a couple of nights a week.  But also, we just do everything together and lean on each other for support.  Whether it's working out together and trying to get healthy, getting through hard days which she has a lot of, we just don't really have anyone to turn to other than each other.  She always knows I will be there to take care of anything she needs help with.  I was there when she needed surgery recently and took care of her afterwards.  I helped her when finding a house to buy and we painted it together, I helped her move.  Etc.

Edited March 23, 2022 by PotatoHead

[glows]

32 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

He is, they share 50/50 also.  It's hard to explain but we both depend on each other in some ways.  She is currently trying to change her schedule in a manner that would require me to look after her kids a couple of nights a week.  But also, we just do everything together and lean on each other for support.  Whether it's working out together and trying to get healthy, getting through hard days which she has a lot of, we just don't really have anyone to turn to other than each other.  She always knows I will be there to take care of anything she needs help with.  I was there when she needed surgery recently and took care of her afterwards.  I helped her when finding a house to buy and we painted it together, I helped her move.  Etc.

This may be the reason why things are getting stale and you're feeling pressured. She needs to enroll her kids in childcare or find a nanny. What kinds of hard days does she have? Is she diagnosed with anything or being treated?

[chillii]

l can certainly see your trust issues and if it had turned sexual , while you were together, there's no excuse for that, sorry. From you first post it wasn't sounding that way but more so like she was just using him as a friend to get help with you guys and her worries, male advice type thing. Buttttt , that's all a totally different scenario no wonder your having trouble with it.

The rest , one problem is although you helped ea other through, in many ways it's also just being all to soon for you now and you've done a huge move for it too and with kids man as you know that's also really complicated things. You really needed more time after your marriage first, So you can't just let normal time and then a bit more time, work it all and yourself out, your under all kinds of pressures, it's a real shame.l think your doing the right thing not mixing your families just yet bc you only start doing that when things are 100% all go.

The relationships losing it's gloss but whether that's your trust now blocking that and feeding you subconsciously negatives, or real, can't say, more time. l think all you can do right now is try to give it more time and just see how you go. Time usually reveals all , but as hard as it will be , try to keep the pressure of yourself too.

[basil67]

8 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

The problem is that shortly after I moved to be with her, I found out that she wasn't completely honest with me.  She had been messaging a male coworker, and although she ended it and never let anything happen, it came close.  She claims she was having worries that I would never be able to move to be with her, or get away from my ex, and so she was in a really low place and just liked the attention.  She was incredibly remorseful and has done everything to ensure it would never happen again, we are completely open and honest now.  We talk about every interaction each of us has, she has given full access to her phone, etc.   But still, I struggle with this mentally every single day and I don't think I can ever look at her the same way again after feeling she was unfaithful, and then having caught her in other lies as well.

Given that your girlfriend started out as your OW, how do you reconcile your history of actual cheating vs her "nearly but stopped" cheating?   As someone who has cheated in the past, I wonder if you could find compassion on the grounds that your previous behaviour was no better than hers. 

 

[Calmandfocused]

Firstly I applaud you for not jumping the gun in terms of family integration. I can’t count the amount of times I’ve read on here where daters introduce their children to new partners after dating as little as a few weeks. It was refreshing to read that you’re taking your children’s emotional welfare into account . 
 

However 2 years is a long time to keep separate lives. 
 

My sense is that your gf is questioning why you are not showing a more deeper commitment after 2 years. I don’t mean marriage or moving in necessarily, I mean that she is witnessing your reluctance in sharing your lives together. 
 

I think she knows you have one foot out the door. That much is obvious. 
 

So in my view you either decide to end this or make a conscious decision to move this relationship forward.
 

Only you can decide. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Calmandfocused

[Wiseman2]

How is your co-parenting relationship with your children's mother? 

How far away does she live? Do you pay child support for them? How does your custody and visitation schedule work?

Honesty is the best policy. Tell your GF that marriage and living together is not in the cards for you. A decision will be made when you are honest with yourself and her.

[PotatoHead]

16 hours ago, glows said:

This may be the reason why things are getting stale and you're feeling pressured. She needs to enroll her kids in childcare or find a nanny. What kinds of hard days does she have? Is she diagnosed with anything or being treated?

Hard days either where we are struggling through our past issues, or just having a bad night at work where she will be emotional and need a shoulder.  Not diagnosed or treated with anything, although she has confessed to feeling depressed at times and she suffers from very low self esteem because of her past marriage.

 

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

Given that your girlfriend started out as your OW, how do you reconcile your history of actual cheating vs her "nearly but stopped" cheating?   As someone who has cheated in the past, I wonder if you could find compassion on the grounds that your previous behaviour was no better than hers. 

 

 

True, we started out that way, but as I alluded to earlier in this post, my marriage was already over or else it wouldn't have happened.  We found each other and realized what we had always been missing, and took steps to be together as soon as possible.  It's not easy with kids involved.  I struggle with it because we were so happy, or at least I thought we were, everything was going to plan and we had our future ahead of us.  Back then we did talk about getting married in the future, but we don't anymore.  She knows it's going to take some time.

 

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

How is your co-parenting relationship with your children's mother? 

How far away does she live? Do you pay child support for them? How does your custody and visitation schedule work?

Honesty is the best policy. Tell your GF that marriage and living together is not in the cards for you. A decision will be made when you are honest with yourself and her.

 

It is getting better.  She struggled with me moving on so quickly and for a long time tried using the fact that I was in another relationship against me, tried keeping the kids away etc.  Most of that has calmed down now, we only have contact when absolutely necessary, about the kids.  She lives 1 mile away from me, and yes child support and childcare cost me an arm and a leg, but that's the price of divorce for a man these days I suppose.  They sleep at her house on school nights, I get them on weekends and Monday, Wednesday and Friday evenings.  

My problem with telling her is I fear she will want to end things without the guarantee of a future, however I don't know if my mind might change down the road after I've had more time to heal and put things behind us.  I wish we could just take a year off to work on ourselves, stay friends and reevaluate once we are both in a better place.  I just know that isn't realistic

 

Thank you @chillii and @Calmandfocused for your inputs.

Edited March 24, 2022 by PotatoHead

[BrinnM]

1 hour ago, PotatoHead said:

She struggled with me moving on so quickly and for a long time tried using the fact that I was in another relationship against me, tried keeping the kids away etc.

I am not sure this is relevant to your current relationship, but maybe it is, and I have a hard time understanding this: Why do you think your ex-W (or then-wife?) decided to move so far away from her hometown in the first place, if your relationship was that bad already? (especially if she wants or wanted to keep the kids away from you out of anger/revenge)

 

18 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

She is currently trying to change her schedule in a manner that would require me to look after her kids a couple of nights a week. 

This sounds difficult, especially if you have to take care of your own 2 children, and you also don't share a household. I do not think that any guy would agree to doing this, especially if there's a biological father in the picture who shares custody. They should work that out between them, I would say.

I don't know, the whole situation sounds so complicated, I definitely don't envy you. Blending families is never easy, but your specific circumstances and your relationship history with your GF definitely compound the problem. I would keep kids separated as much as possible until you guys have figured out if you want to live together at some point, and what the timeline is.  

Edited March 24, 2022 by BrinnM

[vla1120]

21 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

I just sometimes feel like I am not getting as much benefit from this relationship as it is a burden on my newfound freedom. 

This is why we see so many out here who do not end up in the relationship that broke up their marriage. Suddenly, they want to capitalize on their newfound freedom instead of being tied down to someone else. 

Only you will know the answer to whether you want this relationship to continue. It seems like it already comes with lots of external stresses, which feel like a burden to you. The only thing I will definitely say is that if you want this relationship to work, and you decide to stay with her, you have to move past feeling betrayed by her. You were both in positions where you were already betraying your spouses (the whole throwing stones when you live in glass houses analogy applies here.) 

I wonder if what is REALLY happening is that you are having a problem justifying staying in this relationship rather than exploring other options that might be available to you in your newfound freedom? Whatever you do, don't stay with her simply because you promised her in the past that you would not leave her. That's sacrificing your own happiness for someone else (who is not even your wife.) Also, don't stay with her because you moved your family so far to be in this relationship. You said that it was not only for this relationship, but also for financial reasons.

If you do want this relationship to work, you probably need to seek individual counseling to help you get past feeling like she came close to betraying you. Don't punish her for the betrayals you suffered at the hands of others before her. Finally, if you decide to stay with her, you'll have to accept those added stresses of her child being special needs, etc.

[PotatoHead]

@BrinnM Thank you and I agree.  I have been keeping the kids separated despite knowing that it causes her some worry that we will never move forward.  But she is starting to understand the need to wait and I've assured her that it's just going to take time.

It will be tricky if I have to spend those nights watching her kids for her, but we already discussed getting a baby sitter as an option in case something comes up and I need to be with my kids.  Her ex is not willing to change his schedule or do anything to help other than taking them while she is at work.

Talking about this here and just getting my stresses out in the open has already helped some.  I also had some talks with her this morning about certain things that I was worried might be stagnating.  I think for now I will just try to give everything more time and see where it takes us.  Just been a lot of ups and downs lately.

Edited March 24, 2022 by PotatoHead

[PotatoHead]

@vla1120 You are right, it is a big decision I need to make.  I can say for sure that I am not questioning it due to wanting to explore other options.  My options are either to be with her or stay single.  I can't even think about trying to get to know and trust another new person at this point.

[vla1120]

5 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

Talking about this here and just getting my stresses out in the open has already helped some.  I also had some talks with her this morning about certain things that I was worried might be stagnating.  I think for now I will just try to give everything more time and see where it takes us.  Just been a lot of ups and downs lately.

How often do the two of you get to spend quality time together alone? Do you have date nights? Maybe you can do some fun things together or a weekend getaway to focus on your relationship so the day-in-day-out stresses do not become the focus. 

[PotatoHead]

54 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

How often do the two of you get to spend quality time together alone? Do you have date nights? Maybe you can do some fun things together or a weekend getaway to focus on your relationship so the day-in-day-out stresses do not become the focus. 

We get a little time together almost every night, but it's late after she gets off from 2nd shift and we basically just go to bed.  It's rare to get an evening together without kids where we can actually go anywhere or do anything.  Sometimes I will work from home just so I can spend the day with her, but we stay busy most of the day, me with work and her with chores and kids.  We do have a date night coming up in a couple weeks, I wish we could get them more often.  But like I said she works 2nd shift and we both have our kids all weekend long.

[vla1120]

2 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

We get a little time together almost every night, but it's late after she gets off from 2nd shift and we basically just go to bed.  It's rare to get an evening together without kids where we can actually go anywhere or do anything.  Sometimes I will work from home just so I can spend the day with her, but we stay busy most of the day, me with work and her with chores and kids.  We do have a date night coming up in a couple weeks, I wish we could get them more often.  But like I said she works 2nd shift and we both have our kids all weekend long.

I recommend making them a priority. Are there family members who can watch the kids and let you have a date night more often? Maybe weekly would be hard, but bi-weekly might help. If I am ever in a serious relationship again, I will definitely prioritize that quality time together. I did not, in the past, and my relationship(s) suffered because of it. Plus, the added bonus is that it gives the two of you something to look forward to!

[PotatoHead]

23 hours ago, vla1120 said:

I recommend making them a priority. Are there family members who can watch the kids and let you have a date night more often? Maybe weekly would be hard, but bi-weekly might help. If I am ever in a serious relationship again, I will definitely prioritize that quality time together. I did not, in the past, and my relationship(s) suffered because of it. Plus, the added bonus is that it gives the two of you something to look forward to!

That is a great idea.  I have a baby sitter I can have help with the kids so we can get time more often.  Thank you.

[PotatoHead]

If a woman who is in a committed relationship responds to messages from another man, and flirts with them or leads them on when they make advances, only shutting them down when they suggest actually hooking up.  What are the chances that she is doing this only because she likes the attention or it makes her feel good about herself, and not because she is actually interested in or attracted to this man, or thinks about them sexually?

Furthermore, if this is going on for some time and finally the woman realizes she is happy in her relationship, so she cuts this other guy out completely before she ruins it.  But, she never tells her significant other about what was going on.  He comes across some of the messages some time later, gets the explanation above and is told that's all that happened.  Then, she deletes the rest of the messages because of "feeling ashamed", before he gets to see the full extent of it.  What are the chances that this is really all there was to it?  Do people ever confess 100% of what they are guilty of?  Or was the deletion of messages a red flag that this is a cover up?

Yes, I may just be looking for reassurance.  Because her earning my trust back might take years if ever, hearing it from her can only help so much.  These things are on my mind almost daily and I can't keep bringing it up to her.  I want to make this work but I'm not sure how to get past it, perhaps my next stop will be a therapist.

[vla1120]

2 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

Do people ever confess 100% of what they are guilty of?  Or was the deletion of messages a red flag that this is a cover up?

From my own experience, you may never know the full truth. She may trickle truth you to the end of time, telling you just enough to satisfy your curiousity at that moment. 

 

15 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

Because her earning my trust back might take years if ever, hearing it from her can only help so much.  These things are on my mind almost daily and I can't keep bringing it up to her.  I want to make this work but I'm not sure how to get past it, perhaps my next stop will be a therapist.

I think it would be beneficial to speak to someone. You really do need to evaluate the situation and decide if you really want to spend (or waste) years allowing her to try to earn your trust back and whether this is truly the relationship for you.

[PotatoHead]

I was definitely trickled some truths for the first 6 months or so.  Each time proclaiming that was everything there was.  I want to believe I know it all now but that is very difficult to do. 

Talking to a therapist is high on my priority list now.  I realize it's not healthy for these thoughts to occupy me as much as they do after all this time.  Part of the problem is I would feel so empty without the relationship, so I am trying to give it time.  She is practically the only adult person I talk to or spend time with.

Was hoping I could gain some perspective on these situations here that might guide me in the right direction.  Is it even reasonable to try and believe the things I've been told and hope for trust and rebuilding in the future, or am I having a hard time because it's a load of BS and I am being manipulated?

Edited March 31, 2022 by PotatoHead

[vla1120]

I am probably the wrong person to give you reassurance. I spent 32 years being trickle-truthed. It adversely affected my ability to have a trusting, meaningful relationship with anyone else until I went and talked to someone about it. Spending time by myself, I believe, has been the only way I've been able to navigate through everything I've been through for the last (almost) 40 years. My second marriage was even worse than my first, so I do not recommend jumping into or staying in another dysfunctional relationship. I recommend spending some time by yourself until you have come out of the fog of both relationships and have full clarity. I regret not doing it YEARS ago. 

[PotatoHead]

I appreciate your input.  Maybe reassurance is what I want, but it might not be what I need.  I am on the fence right now and staying in the relationship is the "easy" thing to do, as we have built somewhat of a life together.  But no, it's not the relationship I want.  I want a relationship with the woman that never lied or was unfaithful to me, that I never had to question or worry about.  Unfortunately that woman no longer exists.

That said, I think we could still be great together.  If I could somehow put these thoughts behind me and work on my own healing, everything else would be wonderful.

If this ends I can see myself being alone for a very very long time.

Edited March 31, 2022 by PotatoHead

[glows]

I think you might want to ask yourself whether you want to live your life in limbo waiting for a situation that may never be ideal or whether you want to go and live your best life. That's a gamble you're taking but I'd rather take my chances than go back to a situation or linger in a situation that has proven unhappy and uncertain for a length of time. What is easy to miss in times of confusion and pain is that time is ticking and you have one life to live. The years will go by quickly and you may wonder what you did with them and whether you enjoyed your life as fully as you might have if that person or situation had left or ended sooner.

The test for me would be in asking myself if I'm living my life the best way I know how and thinking to myself whether this is at all comparable to what I'd wish for myself (if I felt unhappy at the moment). If the problems persist and things aren't improving, it's time to cut my losses.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by glows

[PotatoHead]

1 minute ago, glows said:

I think you might want to ask yourself whether you want to live your life in limbo waiting for a situation that may never be ideal or whether you want to go and live your best life. That's a gamble you're taking but I'd rather take my chances than go back to a situation or linger in a situation that has proven unhappy and uncertain for a length of time. What is easy to miss in times of confusion and pain is that time is ticking and you have one life to live. The years will go by quickly and you may wonder what you did with them and whether you enjoyed your life as fully as you might have if that person or situation had left or ended sooner.

The test for me would be in asking myself if I'm living my life the best way I know how and thinking to myself whether this is at all comparable to what I'd wish for myself (if I felt unhappy at the moment). If the problems persist and things aren't improving, it's time to cut my losses.

 

 

These past two years, my life has improved dramatically from what it was, as I made it out of a very bad marriage.  I can't say for sure if this is my best life, but it's better than anything else I've ever known.  My new relationship is generally pretty amazing.  I do love her dearly.  About 95% of the time that we are together, I am happy.  Which is why I'd like to be able these thoughts from my original post behind me somehow and stay together if it's possible.  Sometimes I feel resentment and worry that it doesn't allow me to be the best or most caring BF that I could be.  I know that I would benefit from taking time alone to heal, but I also don't want to lose her in the process.

What is a good place to start in finding a therapist, are there any good resources?   What could I possibly give her as reasoning to suddenly want to end things after all this time of reassuring her that I would keep trying and that we would make it through anything?

[BrinnM]

4 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

What could I possibly give her as reasoning to suddenly want to end things after all this time of reassuring her that I would keep trying and that we would make it through anything?

Well, no offense, but this should be your least concern. You decide for yourself if a break-up is your best option in the long run (and I always advocate for thinking long-term, rather than short-term), for you and your children, and then you do it. Nobody enjoys breaking up, but it sometimes has to be done. We have all done it, or most of us anyway.

You let her know what your decision is, and I think in your case the explanation will come quite easily, because it's based on the truth: You have been struggling to forget and forgive a certain violation of trust that went on for a while, and there is a chance that it would still be an ongoing thing, had you not seen certain messages on her phone. (I hope I remember this correctly) – I think that's a more than reasonable explanation. What other reasoning would she need?

 

[mark clemson]

7 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

If a woman who is in a committed relationship responds to messages from another man, and flirts with them or leads them on when they make advances, only shutting them down when they suggest actually hooking up.  What are the chances that she is doing this only because she likes the attention or it makes her feel good about herself, and not because she is actually interested in or attracted to this man, or thinks about them sexually?

I don't know about the "thinks about them sexually" part, but I'd say there's actually a reasonable chance of this. Perhaps a 50/50 chance there was never a strong serious intent to "actually do more".

This by no means means you should stay with her if what she has done totally bugs you. But reality is there's a certain % of people who like to flirt (or sometimes dance or otherwise "engage" potential partners) but draw a line at "actually doing something about it".

Edited April 1, 2022 by mark clemson

[BrinnM]

9 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

But reality is there's a certain % of people who like to flirt (or sometimes dance or otherwise "engage" potential partners) but draw a line at "actually doing something about it".

This is true. Totally depends on personality.
 

I also want to add that if that was with a coworker, she might have felt uncomfortable rejecting him directly. If this is someone you have to see every day at work, you don’t want to be harsh or cold. Flirting back and engaging is a different story, though. But either way, if you can’t get over it, @PotatoHead, see my post above.

Edited April 1, 2022 by BrinnM