Not sure if I should end it (threads merged)

[PotatoHead]

I ended it over the weekend, maybe not as definitively as I should have but at least the start to an end.  Told her about everything I'd been feeling and struggling with.  She as always was very remorseful and tried to reassure me but I've gotten to a point where words don't mean much.  I told her that we both jumped into this too quickly after our marriages, both of which ended badly and we've never had time to heal and recover from them.  We brought with us too much baggage and insecurity.  I told her that we both needed to take time to work on ourselves and feel complete as individuals before we would be ready to take on a relationship, especially me and that I need to get help with my trust issues.

I know she is still hopeful that given enough time we could still be together.  She always tells me that she will never be with anyone else and that I am the only one for her.  I can't imagine trying to start new with anyone else myself for a very long time.  But I think with some time and distance we will finally be able to work through our issues and things will become more clear.

[glows]

2 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

I ended it over the weekend, maybe not as definitively as I should have but at least the start to an end.  Told her about everything I'd been feeling and struggling with.  She as always was very remorseful and tried to reassure me but I've gotten to a point where words don't mean much.  I told her that we both jumped into this too quickly after our marriages, both of which ended badly and we've never had time to heal and recover from them.  We brought with us too much baggage and insecurity.  I told her that we both needed to take time to work on ourselves and feel complete as individuals before we would be ready to take on a relationship, especially me and that I need to get help with my trust issues.

I know she is still hopeful that given enough time we could still be together.  She always tells me that she will never be with anyone else and that I am the only one for her.  I can't imagine trying to start new with anyone else myself for a very long time.  But I think with some time and distance we will finally be able to work through our issues and things will become more clear.

I think you did the right thing but don't drag this out any longer than it has to. Her telling you she will never be with anyone else is either her emotions talking or her not thinking about how manipulative it sounds. It also makes one wonder just how dependent and draining she was on you throughout the relationship. She clung to you in the end way more than you needed her and you felt stifled. 

[PotatoHead]

16 minutes ago, glows said:

I think you did the right thing but don't drag this out any longer than it has to. Her telling you she will never be with anyone else is either her emotions talking or her not thinking about how manipulative it sounds. It also makes one wonder just how dependent and draining she was on you throughout the relationship. She clung to you in the end way more than you needed her and you felt stifled. 

 

She has always tended to be that way, or maybe we both have.  We jumped in with both feet early on saying we were soulmates and would be together forever.  We do have a really strong connection and great chemistry.  It would seem very difficult to find anyone else to mesh so well with.  I'm sure it's not impossible, but it would be a long time before I'd be able to try and not just compare everything to her.  We were too dependent on each other I know.   Both insecure and leaning on each other for validation.  It wasn't healthy.

At the same time she tells me she will never be with anyone else again, she wants me to let her know if I am thinking about dating or trying to move on.  So yeah.  I have a feeling that if she did think I was moving on, she would be quick to find a rebound, probably with one of the guys from work.

Edited April 11, 2022 by PotatoHead

[vla1120]

1 hour ago, PotatoHead said:

I told her that we both jumped into this too quickly after our marriages, both of which ended badly and we've never had time to heal and recover from them.  We brought with us too much baggage and insecurity.  I told her that we both needed to take time to work on ourselves and feel complete as individuals before we would be ready to take on a relationship, especially me and that I need to get help with my trust issues.

Very well said. I'm learning now that I should have taken time to myself after my marriage ended instead of jumping so quickly into another relationship. This is a good time for you to concentrate on your children and yourself. 

1 hour ago, PotatoHead said:

She always tells me that she will never be with anyone else and that I am the only one for her. 

When you wrote this 👆..... My first thought was this 👇

1 hour ago, PotatoHead said:

At the same time she tells me she will never be with anyone else again, she wants me to let her know if I am thinking about dating or trying to move on.  So yeah.  I have a feeling that if she did think I was moving on, she would be quick to find a rebound, probably with one of the guys from work.

Don't be surprised (or hurt) if you find that she has moved on to someone else. Just from what you've said, she seems the type to cling to someone and doesn't do well being alone. I guess time will tell.

I just want to say it's very good that you are taking this time for yourself and your children instead of jumping into a relationship where there are already trust issues and reservations. (I wish I had done the same!)

Edited April 11, 2022 by vla1120

[glows]

2 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

 

She has always tended to be that way, or maybe we both have.  We jumped in with both feet early on saying we were soulmates and would be together forever.  We do have a really strong connection and great chemistry.  It would seem very difficult to find anyone else to mesh so well with.  I'm sure it's not impossible, but it would be a long time before I'd be able to try and not just compare everything to her.  We were too dependent on each other I know.   Both insecure and leaning on each other for validation.  It wasn't healthy.

At the same time she tells me she will never be with anyone else again, she wants me to let her know if I am thinking about dating or trying to move on.  So yeah.  I have a feeling that if she did think I was moving on, she would be quick to find a rebound, probably with one of the guys from work.

That's really her prerogative and she's entitled to do anything she pleases. The respectful thing to do is to cut your ties with each other and resist the urge to check in with one another. You both have been using each other as a crutch, leaning so hard into each other that it's been hard to heal and grow. 

[PotatoHead]

Thanks @vla1120 and @glows it's taken a lot for me to get to this point.  I think I have come a long way and grown since the start of this relationship.  And this sort of free "therapy" I have gotten on here has helped a lot also 😅

This was definitely not the easy decision to make.  I do wish that I could keep her in my life to some extent, even though I know that is not a good idea.  But we are very good friends and may chat from time to time.  It would hurt a bit to learn she has moved on to someone else, but I know some of the reason we have clung to each other is fear of being alone.  I have not been alone in my entire adult life!  But I'm looking forward to things to come, and by doing what I knew deep down was the right thing, I feel I have gained back my integrity.  Never again will I allow someone to be unfaithful or dishonest to me.

[glows]

4 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

But we are very good friends and may chat from time to time. 

This part may come to haunt you and prolong the healing process. Don't be afraid to be alone. You'll make new friends. 

[PotatoHead]

Yesterday was hard.  There were a few messages exchanged but I kept them brief and waited a while before responding.  Today might be no contact.  I feel like I can really start to work on my mental health more while not worrying about someone else all of the time.  I've started realizing that everything will be okay as long as I think it's okay, and don't put a negative spin on it or worry about things.   It didn't help that my ex wife texted this morning trying to start arguments about absolutely nothing, calling me all sorts of foul things just because I don't have documents that she took from my house 🤦‍♂️ but I let it roll off of me and didn't respond.  I want to rise above all of the people and thoughts that have been dragging me down for so long.

[glows]

23 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

Yesterday was hard.  There were a few messages exchanged but I kept them brief and waited a while before responding.  Today might be no contact.  I feel like I can really start to work on my mental health more while not worrying about someone else all of the time.  I've started realizing that everything will be okay as long as I think it's okay, and don't put a negative spin on it or worry about things.   It didn't help that my ex wife texted this morning trying to start arguments about absolutely nothing, calling me all sorts of foul things just because I don't have documents that she took from my house 🤦‍♂️ but I let it roll off of me and didn't respond.  I want to rise above all of the people and thoughts that have been dragging me down for so long.

It may be scary as you haven’t been single in a long time. It takes time to adjust. Good idea to rise above and keep cruising. Work on other things and it’s ok to feel sad.

[vla1120]

42 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

I feel like I can really start to work on my mental health more while not worrying about someone else all of the time.

This is SO VERY important. Like I said, I went right from my failed 32-yr marriage to marrying someone who was terminally ill (and emotionally and verbally abusive). Finally, just now, at the ripe age of 61, I am learning how to be alone and not having to worry about someone else's needs and wants for the first time in my adult life. When I get a little lonely for companionship, I think about the freedom I have to do what I want, when I want, without having to worry about someone else's feelings or opinion. It's refreshing, having spent my entire adult life taking someone else into consideration with every single choice I made. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by vla1120

[BrinnM]

1 hour ago, PotatoHead said:

I want to rise above all of the people and thoughts that have been dragging me down for so long.

Yes, my friend!!! – Really good attitude, and I think you made the right decision, given your (albeit short) history with your GF. If you're not used to being single, you'll need just a little bit of time (if any) to get used to it, but eventually I am sure you will feel elated and energetic pretty soon. Think positive, and visualize all the "weight" that you got rid of. Like you said above: It's been a drag. And honestly – I could read that between the lines, in all your posts. People dragging you down. No more!

Now focus 100 % on your children. They are still so little! You will have so much more time now to make precious memories with them, without being distracted by a problematic relationship that you constantly ruminate about. 

I am just a little worried that she might pull you back in under the disguise of "friendship". Distance yourself, and be conscious about it, because I think it's likely that she will need some help from a "friend" again soon. You do not need to be that friend right now. 

[PotatoHead]

Thank you for the support @vla1120 and @BrinnM!  I know it will be a work in progress for quite some time.  I will not let her, nor anyone pull me back in until I am ready.  Already when I feel that I miss being able to talk to her or seeing her, it's pretty easy to remind myself of why I can't be with her.  That pain isn't going away anytime soon.  When I was with her it was only being pushed down and suppressed, or masked by the good feelings that came from being close to someone and constant physical contact.  This is a step in the right direction and I feel like I can finally breathe.

My next obstacle to tackle will be learning to co-parent with my narcissistic and abusive ex without letting her drag me down!

[vla1120]

30 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

My next obstacle to tackle will be learning to co-parent with my narcissistic and abusive ex without letting her drag me down!

Ugh. That's a horse of a different color. That is the only benefit I secured from staying with my husband for 32 years. My youngest was 18 by the time we divorced. However, all three of my daughters are now estranged from their father because of his behavior. While I took the high road, spending the last 8 years encouraging them to have a relationship with him, never bad-mouthing him, trying to keep him informed and encouraging him to have a relationship with his daughters, he spent that 8 years bad-mouthing me, criticizing our daughters at every turn, and spending 8 years with a woman who is verbally abusive when she is drunk (which is most of the time.) I cannot imagine how things might have been if I had to co-parent with him had I left when our girls were younger. Luckily, my daughters are at an age that they can make their own decisions on their relationship with both of their parents, though this is not the outcome I hoped for. 

The best you can do is take the high road. Be the best dad you can be. Research parental alienation and how to best handle it from your perspective. Make sure she knows you're not going to stand by and allow it. If it comes down to it, find a lawyer in your area who specializes in parental alienation. Is she narcissistic with your children? Also do some research on having a narcissistic parent. If I remember correctly, I already recommended going into therapy with your child(ren) to give them the best support possible. Finally, document everything. Keep a journal of your interactions with her and make sure your lawyer and your therapist both know you're keeping this journal. 

[PotatoHead]

Sounds like a tough situation you had for sure.  I hate that my kids are having to deal with this at a young age, but I also could not imagine staying with her for another 16 years (our youngest is 2).  I trust that everything will work out for the best in the end, I know that she could definitely be worse but sometimes it's hard to imagine.

She is a master of emotional manipulation, and I don't think she does it as badly for the kids apart from that she makes them worry about her well being, which of course is questionable "because of me".  Kids should not have to worry about their parents.  They make sure to do everything to please her because they worry about her getting upset or emotional.   I try to provide a safe and comfortable place for them and put their worries at ease, assuring them their mother is okay and that I wish her health and happiness.

The way she treats me is on another level.  It has calmed down somewhat, but still on occasion (like this morning) the most basic conversations in text will unravel into her blaming me for her entire life and all of her problems.  She insists that I gaslighted her, abused her and that I am a narc and at many times she has caused me to question my own sanity and whether I actually was the abuser or not.  But I know this is their tactic and I am not that way because I actually care about how other people feel, even her despite what she has put me through.  When she could clearly care less about hurting others around her with her words and actions.

I have gotten better at not letting her get the best of me or get an emotional response from me.  I know that is what she wants but I try not to care about what she thinks, and trust that the kids will know better than what she says.  It is easier now that the divorce is final.  However she does not try to push the kids away, if anything she has tried claiming that she has more of a right to them than I do.  Which is bizarre seeing that during our entire marriage, she always said she hated having kids and a family, that it wasn't the life she wanted and I forced her into it.  As always, she was never happy and I was always to blame, even though I bent over backwards and gave my everything to her and my family.

Edited April 12, 2022 by PotatoHead

[vla1120]

15 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

The way she treats me is on another level.  It has calmed down somewhat, but still on occasion (like this morning) the most basic conversations in text will unravel into her blaming me for her entire life and all of her problems.  She insists that I gaslighted her, abused her and that I am a narc and at many times she has caused me to question my own sanity and whether I actually was the abuser or not.  But I know this is their tactic and I am not that way because I actually care about how other people feel, even her despite what she has put me through.  When she could clearly care less about hurting others around her with her words and actions.

I have gotten better at not letting her get the best of me or get an emotional response from me.  I know that is what she wants but I try not to care about what she thinks, and trust that the kids will know better than what she says.  It is easier now that the divorce is final.  However she does not try to push the kids away, if anything she has tried claiming that she has more of a right to them than I do.  Which is bizarre seeing that during our entire marriage, she always said she hated having kids and a family, that it wasn't the life she wanted and I forced her into it.  As always, she was never happy and I was always to blame, even though I bent over backwards and gave my everything to her and my family.

The bolded sentence is key and you are doing well. All of this is a reason you need to take some time to yourself. My late (2nd) husband was professionally diagnosed with NPD, a diagnosis he didn't believe, of course. Two things still stick out about those 6 years I spent with him (in weekly therapy sessions to try to keep my sanity). #1 - my therapist continually told me to stop trying to reason with him, because "you cannot reason with a narcissist and he'll never be able to put himself in your shoes to understand what he is doing to you" and #2 - she knew he was terminal and kept telling me "When this is over, you're going to have some PTSD and you're going to need therapy to help you through it before you ever consider a relationship in the future." She was right on both counts. 

You've been through a similar situation and you need to address the emotional damage your wife did to you (making you second guess yourself, whether you abused her, etc.) before you can even think of having a healthy relationship with someone else. (Every time I say or write "Emotional Damage", I can't help but picture that viral TikTok.)

[PotatoHead]

That is really helpful advice, and I am just now learning and realizing the extent of damage she has caused me and still attempts to do.  It was actually through my feed on tiktok where I was getting a lot of videos from therapists talking about the traits and tactics of a narcissist that I realized that's what she truly is.  It has helped validate all of the mental torture she has put me through, because it was always done in a way that made me question it and wonder if the problem wasn't myself.   And done in a way that it's almost impossible to explain to anyone else and have them understand how you feel.

[vla1120]

9 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

it was always done in a way that made me question it and wonder if the problem wasn't myself.   And done in a way that it's almost impossible to explain to anyone else and have them understand how you feel.

Ahh, yes. That's where the mild PTSD comes in. You start questioning your own sanity because they are SO good at turning everything back on you and playing the victim in everything, never ever admitting any fault or any part in the dysfunction and toxicity. I definitely needed a therapist to help me sort that out. I kept a journal during that six years. I still look back at that journal and the things he said and did to me and wonder how I came out of it with my sanity, but I did. Now I will not give a moment of my time to someone who disrespects me in any way or shows any level of toxicity. I have been through enough and I deserve better (and so do you.) 

[PotatoHead]

I was feeling pretty good about the break up and everything yesterday.  We did chat a little bit last night, she just wanted some more clarification with where I stand on things.  We also talked about the possibility of remaining friends in the future. Knowing how difficult it might be, what are the real down sides to occasional messaging or even meeting up once in a while, long term, other than when one or both of us decides to start dating again?

[PotatoHead]

We messaged more yesterday, just general small talk as friends.  I didn't make it a priority but it felt fine, and right now I'm not really feeling pain from the break up.  I'm not sure how she's feeling but she seemed better yesterday.  I almost wonder if we don't make better friends than we ever did lovers.

Knowing that I broke it off and held her accountable for her actions has relieved me of the pain of our past as well.  Knowing that I don't owe her my time anymore and don't even have to talk to her if I don't want to.  Makes me feel as if I've regained my integrity and respect for myself.

Edited April 14, 2022 by PotatoHead

[vla1120]

I don't see any downside to messaging once in awhile, as long as the expectations are clear, as long as it doesn't keep either of you from moving forward successfully. Some will tell you exes should not and cannot be friends. I depends on the two of you and whether you can have a healthy friendship.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

On 4/13/2022 at 3:18 PM, PotatoHead said:

 Knowing how difficult it might be, what are the real down sides to occasional messaging or even meeting up once in a while, long term, other than when one or both of us decides to start dating again?

Because it will probably hurt more than you expect if she actually does start dating someone who isn't you. 

[PotatoHead]

I will keep that in mind, and I have thought about it.  No, it wouldn't be fun to learn that she was, but neither of us have any interest in dating or relationships at this point.  I just think that trying to maintain no contact would be harder on both of us right now.  So we are trying to maintain the friendship although I've explained to her that we have to keep boundaries set where it doesn't become emotional and affect the work that we need to do.

So far we both have made plans to go out with friends on our own, and she has found a therapist to talk to as the break up has been hard on her.  We did see each other a couple of nights ago, just sat outside by a fire talking and it was a great time.  There was some minor physical contact at the end but we didn't end up sleeping together or anything.  Next time we will hold stricter boundaries.   It was just hard being the first time seeing each other since the break up.

[glows]

This goes back to what I said earlier about not being single for awhile. You'll have to adjust to that. No one can tell you when's the best time to completely not have anything to do with each other. In some cases it's a gradual fade. I've usually let go quickly as there was no reason to stay in contact but as in my separation and divorce there was a period of uncoupling. After the divorce was final I asked for privacy and that friendship ended. It also gave me a more objective view of what that relationship was instead of having false ideas about the past which would have prevented me from moving on and meeting my current partner.  

I hope you both find peace either way and find the strength to separate/distance and eventually find more fulfilling relationships.

[PotatoHead]

I hope so too, thanks.  We will try to take things as they come and do what feels right.

She has now made it clear that she would still like to maintain a physical relationship.  I am a bit torn at this, of course I have needs but I don't want emotions to get mixed up again.  I also don't want her to end up feeling used in that aspect and it seems like at some point I'd have to break it off again which would just be putting her through the same pain all over.

[glows]

11 minutes ago, PotatoHead said:

I hope so too, thanks.  We will try to take things as they come and do what feels right.

She has now made it clear that she would still like to maintain a physical relationship.  I am a bit torn at this, of course I have needs but I don't want emotions to get mixed up again.  I also don't want her to end up feeling used in that aspect and it seems like at some point I'd have to break it off again which would just be putting her through the same pain all over.

Those are some difficult decisions you'll both have to make. You could potentially find yourselves in the same situations over again or repeating itself...