Unauthorised leave today

[goldengirl11]

3 hours ago, glows said:

If you resign what are your options?

I would most likely have to go back on benefits (JSA and housing benefits) until I find another job! I know that my family would want me to find another job first though, but sometimes I feel that I should just get out!

I fear that what happened yesterday might be - to them - the final straw! The reason I booked yesterday afternoon off was to go to a show this evening I had tickets for in London, but decided not to go earlier incase I overslept/felt tired in the morning!

In general, I try to avoid going out weeknights, but if there’s something in particular in advance again, I will plan on booking the *next* day/morning off!

Edited April 4, 2022 by goldengirl11

[stillafool]

I'm curious GG how would you handle this situation if you didn't have your parents to help you?  This is important to think about because one day they won't be around to fall back on.

[goldengirl11]

12 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I'm curious GG how would you handle this situation if you didn't have your parents to help you?  This is important to think about because one day they won't be around to fall back on.

I understand this, especially as they’re both elderly now. Although I do not feel that I depend on them as such. I am independent, even though I struggle at times.

[basil67]

30 minutes ago, goldengirl11 said:

I know that my family would want me to find another job first though, but sometimes I feel that I should just get out!

Is the job itself problematic?  Or are there issues being created by your absences?   If the job itself is OK, you may be able to work this through with them.

 

[poppyfields]

3 hours ago, stillafool said:

Does this also apply in the hiring phase? LIke if you know someone has mental health issues is it okay not to hire them?  Just curious.

@stillafoolI have no idea about the UK, but in the U.S. (and the laws may be similar), it is unlawful for an employer to either terminate an employee or refuse to hire a perspective employee for these reasons:

Age (over 40)

Disability (Mental or Physical)

Sexual Orientation.

Status as a Parent.

Religious Beliefs

National Origin.

Pregnancy.

Sexual Harassment.

What typically happens when both terminating and refusing to hire is that they will give another alternative reason why they terminated or refused to hire because they know if they were disclose any of the above reasons to the employee/perspective employee, they risk being sued.

[goldengirl11]

16 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Is the job itself problematic?  Or are there issues being created by your absences?   If the job itself is OK, you may be able to work this through with them.

 

No the job itself isn’t problematic.

[basil67]

@poppyfields I would imagine that for a person to be protected under these laws, they would have had to disclose their issue.   Thing is, needing time off because of a known mental illness is something an employer can work through.  But it doesn't make sense that an employer can't fire someone for absenteeism if they are unaware of any mental health issues. 

[basil67]

5 minutes ago, goldengirl11 said:

No the job itself isn’t problematic.

So how about you disclose what's going on and try to work through this with your boss?  Get a Dr certificate and work with a qualified third party to come up with a plan which is reasonable for both you and the needs of your employer.   

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by basil67

[poppyfields]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

But it doesn't make sense that an employer can't fire someone for absenteeism if they are unaware of any mental health issues. 

They absolutely can fire for excessive absenteeism, they are within their rights to do so IF the employee's excessive absenteeism becomes a burden to co-workers and they're not able to perform the duties of the job in a timely manner. 

Everyone suffers when an employee is excessively absent; most employers have a sick day policy and it's important for an employee to not exceed that. 

If there is a mental or physical disability, they need to disclose that with a note from their doctor and the employer is required by law to accommodate.

But I've seen cases where even when the employee has a disability, they're still fired! 

The employer citing poor job performance, mistakes etc as the reason.  And they often get sued for wrongful termination because of it..

This is in the US though, again don't know about the UK.

Edited April 5, 2022 by poppyfields

[goldengirl11]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

They absolutely can fire for excessive absenteeism, they are within their rights to do so IF the employee's excessive absenteeism becomes a burden to co-workers and they're not able to perform the duties of the job in a timely manner. 

Everyone suffers when an employee is excessively absent; most employers have a sick day policy and it's important for an employee to not exceed that. 

If there is a mental or physical disability, they need to disclose that with a note from their doctor and the employer is required by law to accommodate.

But I've seen cases where even when the employee has a disability, they're still fired! 

The employer citing poor job performance, mistakes etc as the reason.  And they often get sued for wrongful termination because of it..

This is in the US though, again don't know about the UK.

Re mistakes etc, I’m told there is no problem with the quality of my work, but this lie yesterday is going to turn out a disaster today, I know it. My team leader is very bitty about everything and appears to turn to HR for advice a lot. Are you saying that I should just admit that I lied yesterday, because I didn’t want to admit to another sickness? My team leader emailed at 11:45, yet I didn’t see his message / reply ‘til 4pm (I had been in bed!), signing off that I would see him at 9:30 tomorrow. That is in a few hours from now.
 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by goldengirl11

[Alpacalia]

Discrimination based on a mental health condition is illegal.

In order for your employer to dismiss you, they must have a legitimate reason for doing so. For example, your conduct at work could be the reason. Continuously missing work is an example of conduct. Falsifying your absences to your employer.

Or, your ability to do your job. 

If it is habitual for you not to be at work, or just not 'showing up' then it may not be illegal to end your employment.

Dismissing you for misconduct requires fair disciplinary procedures. Those may already be underway.

In case you have a disability, your employer is legally required to make reasonable accommodations. You need to be allowed to work in a manner that is deemed "reasonable."

Perhaps an agreement can be reached with them to avoid this happening again.

Be well and good luck!

Edited April 5, 2022 by Alpacalia

[goldengirl11]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Discrimination based on a mental health condition is illegal.

In order for your employer to dismiss you, they must have a legitimate reason for doing so. For example, your conduct at work could be the reason. Continuously missing work is an example of conduct. Falsifying your absences to your employer.

Or, your ability to do your job. 

If it is habitual for you not to be at work, or just not 'showing up' then it may not be illegal to end your employment.

Dismissing you for misconduct requires fair disciplinary procedures. Those may already be underway.

In case you have a disability, your employer is legally required to make reasonable accommodations. You need to be allowed to work in a manner that is deemed "reasonable."

Perhaps an agreement can be reached with them to avoid this happening again.

Be well and good luck!

It isn’t habitual that I don’t’ ‘show up’ at work. I don’t recall it has happened before, only reported sicknesses. 

[Alpacalia]

20 minutes ago, goldengirl11 said:

It isn’t habitual that I don’t’ ‘show up’ at work. I don’t recall it has happened before, only reported sicknesses. 

That's what I said:

"If it is habitual for you not to be at work." (i.e. reported sicknesses).

My apologies if that was not clear in my initial post.

Try not to worry about it too much. Just see what they say and like others said make sure to keep on top of your health and take care of yourself and work with your doctor and employer. I'm sure something can be worked out.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Alpacalia

[Stret]

14 hours ago, goldengirl11 said:

Hi,

I’m in the U.K. I’m not sure tbh if there is a similar law here, but thanks for the info and best wishes. 🙏

I know employment laws in the UK as I am a lawyer (in another field of law but I know these basics) - you need to protect yourself. If your GP has diagnosed you with anxiety and depression, and you are on meds, your work has a legal obligation to make "reasonable adjustments" for you. This means flexible working, reduced hours, etc. If your depression/anxiety are lasting for more than 12 months then you are a disabled person under the Disability Act. This protects you from being dismissed - if they do, you can go to Employment Tribunal and claim disability discrimination and unfair dismissal. HR should know about their legal obligations and should not make you feel like you are being monitored all the time and about to get fired as it increases your symptoms and worsens your mental health. HRs in the UK are always there to protect the employer not the employed. You should ask HR (which they should already offered) to arrange Occupational Health Assessment for you. It is a single meeting with someone not associated with the work, who will make a report on your health condition and suggest how work can accommodate you better. Every employer has duty of care implied in the employment contract. 

Make sure you record everything! Recording is not illegal in the UK. Make sure that everything that can be written in the emails does not get discussed verbally. Keep records of everything. Write them an email to say about your health issues and exaggerate them if you have to - often, that is the only way to be heard. Ask for Occupational Health Assessment and Stress Risk Assessment. 

If you quit as a result of the workplace not having made reasonable adjustments - you can claim constructive dismissal too. Always give notice as per contract when you quit unless they do something that you cannot handle - then quit immediately and make sure there is a record of you claiming it is constructive dismissal (it is when you quit but in reality you were forced to quit by some illegal action of your employer, such as pressuring you instead of making reasonable adjustments). Make sure you are using "reasonable adjustments", "disability" and so on in your communication. Be polite but firm with them. 

Which industry do you work in? 

Are you a member of the union? If so, they can advise you and help you but don't count on them to represent you in Employment Tribunal if it comes to that. They are underfunded. But since your case seems straightforward, then who knows... They take only easy cases.
But you can represent yourself with a bit of guidance from someone.

Good luck. 
 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, goldengirl11 said:

My team leader emailed at 11:45, yet I didn’t see his message / reply ‘til 4pm (I had been in bed!), signing off that I would see him at 9:30 tomorrow.

It doesn't sound like they are discriminating against you. However it sounds like the schedule doesn't suit you. Sleeping in is generally not considered a mental health issue, but whatever the case, calling in sick would have been a better option.

Not showing up for work or calling in sick and being questioned about that  is not discrimination. It's a performance issue.

Why not get your resume and LinkedIn profile updated and just start browsing for jobs that suit your needs/schedule better? 

As far as mental health treatment, that's fine however you'll have to consult your work policies as far as personal days, sick days, vacation days, unpaid leave, disability, etc.

[stillafool]

6 hours ago, goldengirl11 said:

It isn’t habitual that I don’t’ ‘show up’ at work. I don’t recall it has happened before, only reported sicknesses. 

Do you return to work with a doctor's note of excuse to prove you were sick?  Some companies require that when sick days are excessive.

Edited April 5, 2022 by stillafool