Dating a new lady (combined thread)

[glows]

3 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

What makes it confusing is she feels comfortable enough for me to pick her up and bring her to my house where we'll be alone and have a few drinks and she let me meet her daughter, but she doesn't feel comfortable enough for me to meet her band members. I'm not saying we do all this in one week, but the longer we move at a snails pace, the longer it's going to be to see her true colors if there is something she doesn't want me to know. All I'm saying is I'd like to know who I'm dating as much as she does. It's ironic that when ladies want to know more about who they're dating it's okay to "investigate", but if I guy wants to know he's needy, rushing things, psychotic, paranoid, distrusting.....

It's funny that all the people who know my ex's told me, you should've got away from her sooner, she's a nutcase, but me being the trusting guy I am always chose to look past the red flags and gave them the benefit of the doubt. I don't know what her motive is behind changing her mind, but it's okay.

Not sure about this male/female double standard you're implying as it would read the same way regardless of gender even if you were a woman posting. Keeping an eye open is one thing, investigating is another. Investigating is implying that there's something that has gone wrong and needs looking into. I don't see anything the issue with her changing her mind this early. She can do whatever she wants but you only have to be comfortable or uncomfortable with it. You are very much entitled to feeling uncomfortable of course but as you say you don't know why so you might as well leave it alone instead of spending too much time thinking about it. 

All you really need to think about is whether you want to spend more time with her. If the answer is yes, then give it a shot. If the answer is NO, then let go. Date someone else or meet new people. It's ok to leave it alone without knowing all the reasons why you just don't feel good around her. Sometimes it's ok to trust your instincts when it's screaming at you to go/leave. 

[Helicon5]

19 minutes ago, glows said:

Not sure about this male/female double standard you're implying as it would read the same way regardless of gender even if you were a woman posting. Keeping an eye open is one thing, investigating is another. Investigating is implying that there's something that has gone wrong and needs looking into. I don't see anything the issue with her changing her mind this early. She can do whatever she wants but you only have to be comfortable or uncomfortable with it. You are very much entitled to feeling uncomfortable of course but as you say you don't know why so you might as well leave it alone instead of spending too much time thinking about it. 

All you really need to think about is whether you want to spend more time with her. If the answer is yes, then give it a shot. If the answer is NO, then let go. Date someone else or meet new people. It's ok to leave it alone without knowing all the reasons why you just don't feel good around her. Sometimes it's ok to trust your instincts when it's screaming at you to go/leave. 

I really like a lot of the qualities she has and the things she's been saying. She is sweet and I like her way. I don't agree with a couple of things, but I won't assume the worst just yet. Seeing is believing though. That's why I'm choosing to bring her see my home, to calm any unspoken fears she may have. Hopefully she'll do the same.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Helicon5

[basil67]

28 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

What makes it confusing is she feels comfortable enough for me to pick her up and bring her to my house where we'll be alone and have a few drinks and she let me meet her daughter, but she doesn't feel comfortable enough for me to meet her band members?

It's very normal to spend alone time with someone you're dating.  But meeting the friends often only comes when the relationship has become official.  A lot of people don't want friends to have to meet or know the dates who end up as disasters or simply don't lead to relationship.

That aside, given how slow she's been to get things going, I'm not even sure she sees you in a romantic sense. 

[Helicon5]

17 minutes ago, basil67 said:

It's very normal to spend alone time with someone you're dating.  But meeting the friends often only comes when the relationship has become official.  A lot of people don't want friends to have to meet or know the dates who end up as disasters or simply don't lead to relationship.

That aside, given how slow she's been to get things going, I'm not even sure she sees you in a romantic sense. 

I've always said the same thing about friends, unfortunately friends are a big part of our lives. It's a risk. I'm not 100% sure of her, but I let her meet all my band friends. 

She told me last night that she likes me being forward with her affectionately. She said she wouldn't be going out with me if she wasn't attracted to me. She may have doubts because she's unsure, but that's why I'm bringing her into my life so she feel more comfortable. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Helicon5

[basil67]

7 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

I let her meet my friends. Am I responsible for the fact that she doesn't trust me because of her past? I've been doing everything I can to put her at ease.

She is attracted to me. She told me last night that she likes me being forward with her affectionately. She may have doubts because she's unsure, but she's definitely attracted to me. She said she wouldn't be going out with me if she wasn't.

She is not obliged to introduce you her to her friends because you introduced her to yours.   IF things continue well and IF your relationship becomes established, she will likely introduce you to them when she's ready.   I'm not sure why you're talking about trust in the context of meeting friends.  

Her liking you being affectionate (in what sounds like a very chaste manner) doesn't mean that she sees you as anything more than a cuddle bunny friend. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by basil67

[chillii]

Mannnn, your gonna worry yourself into an early grave and ruin this , if there is a this.You guys are older and you haven't even been together much as yet you should be well aware you don't even go bothering with meeting friends and stuff so early on , relax. Besides, you met her daughter , that's far bigger than any friend, do you have kids ?

Maybe something inside , instincts, and there is something, can't tell yet but from the outside though it seems more like your just looking for things and at this rate you'll ruin it if you don't back of with that stuff soon. Just be with her, enjoy, give it time.

[Helicon5]

41 minutes ago, basil67 said:

She is not obliged to introduce you her to her friends because you introduced her to yours.   IF things continue well and IF your relationship becomes established, she will likely introduce you to them when she's ready.   I'm not sure why you're talking about trust in the context of meeting friends.  

Her liking you being affectionate (in what sounds like a very chaste manner) doesn't mean that she sees you as anything more than a cuddle bunny friend. 

Because part of trusting and getting to know someone is introducing them to your friends and family. You have to have faith in people, despite what you've experienced in the past.

You have no clue how introverted she is. Introverted people are not forward. It doesn't mean they're not attracted. After the first time we're together sexually she'll open up, then SHE'LL become more aggressive. Would you like to bet on it? I'll be honest if you're right, but I don't think you are.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Helicon5

[Uruktopi]

Honestly but just IMO you seem to be more interested than she is about becoming romantic / sexual partners.

Both have full right to each one own expectations (no matter if concious or not).

This may even so become a source of frustration for both for the opposite reasons.

I´m trying to avoid looking at your situation at the light of an experience I once had. But sharing thoughts based on what we experienced is what we are all doing.

Some people since or at a certain age / stage of life,  get (not without efforts) an almost satisfactory arrangment of their stuff.

It may lack, anyhow, of what a relationship may bring to them.

So they have alternatives (not necessarily being aware / intentional about).

To risk aspects of what they already have as a cost of a better emotional state of things.

Or to find someone that (maybe with hopes on that things will change with time) "agrees" to be the auxiliary wheel and outside emotional provider of what is lacking. Whithout of course asking for a more corageous reciprocity.

It´s too early to say what´s going on. Not too early for you to think on what role you find acceptable for yourself just in case you have to later decide about. 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Uruktopi

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Helicon5 said:

Because part of trusting and getting to know someone is introducing them to your friends and family. You have to have faith in people, despite what you've experienced in the past.

You have no clue how introverted she is. Introverted people are not forward. It doesn't mean they're not attracted. After the first time we're together sexually she'll open up, then SHE'LL become more aggressive. Would you like to bet on it? I'll be honest if you're right, but I don't think you are.

Actually my friend didn't trust her own judgement after a failed marriage, so she introduced her new boyfriend (now husband) VERY early with the view of having us vet him for her.   So that introduction was the opposite of trust.   That said, trust also requires time and consistency.   Most people are on their best behaviour during early dating, so one really can't gauge well so early.  It could also be true that trust has nothing to do with it and she hasn't introduced you because she's not sure there's a future between the two of you.  Or she has no desire to mix her private and public life.

You're confusing introverted with shy or insecure.  Introverted is about finding social situations exhausting and needing a lot of down time to recover.  Whereas extraverts feed on social interaction.  I'm introverted but I'm also really assertive...I just need a day of quiet to recover.  

I have no wish to start bets with you, but I don't see why a shy or timid person would become less shy or timid after having sexual contact.   What history does she have with relationships?  Did she tell you that she opens right up with time?    Does she see herself as being in a relationship with you?

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, Helicon5 said:

Because part of trusting and getting to know someone is introducing them to your friends and family. You have to have faith in people, despite what you've experienced in the past.

Your faith in her is lacking though.

Your skepticism is prevalent throughout the entire process.

It's been a bit challenging to tell whether problems arise from your end or because of something she does that are, in fact, "red flags."

It jumped out at me that several times you've stated that she is not sexually promiscuous, unlike some women you've dated in the past (I think you used the word "tramp"), and that is a big part of the reason why you like her?

In the same vein, you are trying to fast-track the dating process.

You may miss red flags and become attached to her before realizing whether or not she might be the right person for you. 

Dating is a period of discovery. We have to date based on trust, and our interactions serve as a check and balance.

The result of being intense quickly and fast-forwarding the relationship with the other person is, in the majority of cases, a red flag. That may very well be how she perceives it coming from you.

 

 

[Helicon5]

7 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Your faith in her is lacking though.

Your skepticism is prevalent throughout the entire process.

It's been a bit challenging to tell whether problems arise from your end or because of something she does that are, in fact, "red flags."

It jumped out at me that several times you've stated that she is not sexually promiscuous, unlike some women you've dated in the past (I think you used the word "tramp"), and that is a big part of the reason why you like her?

In the same vein, you are trying to fast-track the dating process.

You may miss red flags and become attached to her before realizing whether or not she might be the right person for you. 

Dating is a period of discovery. We have to date based on trust, and our interactions serve as a check and balance.

The result of being intense quickly and fast-forwarding the relationship with the other person is, in the majority of cases, a red flag. That may very well be how she perceives it coming from you.

 

 

Seeing each other once per week, asking her over for dinner so she could see my place and wanting to do what she what she suggests are red flags? Are you kidding? 

No, I don't want her to be a tramp. I'm not expecting sex, but at least show a little affection by reaching out to hold my hand after the fourth date. First every one agrees that it's not normal to show any affection at all at this point, now you're making it sound as if I'm expecting too much too soon.

I am trying to get to know her (and her me). We can't do that if we do the same thing every week (come back to her place for a few hours after going to the bar). There should be some progression. I'm not asking to see her more than once a week, just do what she suggested. I never gave her any reason to feel uncomfortable and make her change her mind. That's why I brought her to meet my friends, so she would feel more comfortable seeing how I spend my time. I've been cordial, considerate, and patient up till now.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Helicon5

[Alpacalia]

Just now, Helicon5 said:

Seeing each other once per week, asking her over for dinner so she could see my place and wanting to do what she what she suggests are red flags? Are you kidding? 

No, I don't want her to be a tramp. I'm not expecting sex, but at least show a little affection by reaching out to hold my hand after the fourth date. First every one agrees that it's not normal to show any affection at all at this point, now you're making it sound as if I'm expecting too much too soon.

I am trying to get to know her. I can't do that if we do the same thing every week (come back to her place for a few hours after going to the bar). There should be some progression. I'm not asking to see her more than once a week, just do what she suggested. I never gave her any reason to feel uncomfortable and make her change her mind. I've been cordial, considerate, and patient up till now.

I'm not speaking about sex specifically.

Every action or inaction that she has taken or not taken has been examined from the beginning all the way to this point.

Decide if this is right for you. Honestly, it doesn't seem very fulfilling right now.

Or, skip the BS and have a face-to-face conversation with her. Let her know what's stressing you out.

[introverted1]

I can't tell if all this churning is a result of your own anxiety, her ambivalent behavior, some combination of the two, or something else.

To be fair, you seem like a worrier/over-thinker and she seems to be playing the role of a naif or much younger (like first boyfriend younger) woman.

Ultimately, though, you have to answer one question:  Are you happy with the relationship?  If yes, carry on.  If no, find someone else to date.  This is a woman you've been out with a handful of times, not a life partner.  Things should be fun and easy at this stage. If they aren't, that's a clue to figure out why not and make changes accordingly.

.

Edited May 18, 2022 by introverted1

[Helicon5]

25 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I'm not speaking about sex specifically.

Every action or inaction that she has taken or not taken has been examined from the beginning all the way to this point.

Decide if this is right for you. Honestly, it doesn't seem very fulfilling right now.

Or, skip the BS and have a face-to-face conversation with her. Let her know what's stressing you out.

That's what we did on our last conversation. We just spoke the other night. It's just some of the things she's saying seem a little "off", or maybe it's just that she's not explaining herself correctly. For instance, initially she told me she works 34 hours per week, but wants to work part-time. So I asked her, do you mean 25 hours per week? (because full time would be 40 hours). Then she said no, she wants to work 34 hours per week. Then I said, so you're working 40 hours?, and she said yes. 

I'm like "Huh"?

Even those things seem a little strange, the fulfillment comes in trying to get to know her so I don't see things that way.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Helicon5

[Helicon5]

13 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

I can't tell if all this churning is a result of your own anxiety, her weird behavior, some combination of the two, or something else.

To be fair, you seem like a worrier/over-thinker and she seems to be playing the role of a naif or much younger (like first boyfriend younger) woman.

Ultimately, though, you have to answer one question:  Are you happy with the relationship?  If yes, carry on.  If no, find someone else to date.  This is a woman you've been out with a handful of times, not a life partner.  Things should be fun and easy at this stage. If they aren't, that's a clue to figure out why not and make changes accordingly.

.

I'm seeing it as a challenge to get to know her. I'm not worried, just trying to figure her out. I don't want to mistake things if she is a good person and I'm just not understanding her mindset yet. 

[introverted1]

4 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

I'm seeing it as a challenge to get to know her. I'm not worried, just trying to figure her out. I don't want to mistake things if she is a good person and I'm just not understanding her mindset yet. 

Dating shouldn't be a challenge.  This isn't a video game or a Disney movie where the guy has to slay dragons to get the girl.

In real life, good relationships are built when two people are mutually invested in building the relationship. 

You seem to realize on some level that you doing all the work is unbalanced, but you also keep making excuses for her lack of investment/enthusiasm/reciprocity.  If this makes you happy, then carry on.  I just don't think you'd have 10 pages to discuss 5 dates if things were actually sitting right with you.

[basil67]

You're only seeing each other once a week? After this amount of time, I'd expect more if this is to turn into proper dating or a relationship.  What's preventing the two of you from seeing each other more often?    

And what's the story with her physical reticence?  Have you discussed it?

 

[Alpacalia]

5 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

That's what we did on our last conversation. We just spoke the other night. It's just some of the things she's saying seem a little "off". For instance, initially she told me she told me she works 34 hours a week, but wants to work part-time. So I asked her, do you mean 25 hours per week (because full time would be 40 hours). Then she said no, she wants to work 34 hours per week. Then I said, so you working 40 hours, and she said yes. 

I'm like "Huh"?

Okay well, I don't know what to make of that.

In this thread you have referred to things that you perceive as odd, beyond what she has told you.

Some points are certainly valid.

Have you considered that she may be dating others?

 

[Helicon5]

14 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Dating shouldn't be a challenge.  This isn't a video game or a Disney movie where the guy has to slay dragons to get the girl.

In real life, good relationships are built when two people are mutually invested in building the relationship. 

You seem to realize on some level that you doing all the work is unbalanced, but you also keep making excuses for her lack of investment/enthusiasm/reciprocity.  If this makes you happy, then carry on.  I just don't think you'd have 10 pages to discuss 5 dates if things were actually sitting right with you.

We had a long conversation the other night and I mentioned that I wasn't sure why she hasn't been more forward since everything's been going great. I told her I don't mind initiating, just not all the time. She was like, oh, okay. I don't want to make it seem like I don't think you're attractive.

Before I mentioned that she said she never finds what she's looking for. Either they're hot and she doesn't like their personality, or they're not attractive, but have a nice personality. I think she sees me as both. Maybe I intimidate her or make her because I'm very outgoing and have a lot of friends. 

I'll see how things go when she comes over for dinner on Friday.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Helicon5

[introverted1]

8 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

Before I mentioned that she said she never finds what she's looking for. Either they're hot and she doesn't like their personality, or they're not attractive, but have a nice personality. I think she sees me as both.

So she's hit the jackpot and her response is to....  do nothing? Be reticent? Make you chase?

This is a grown woman with adult children, not a pre-teen with her first crush. 

She's willing to tell you she finds you attractive but not willing to show you.  That doesn't mean she needs to have sex on the 1st date, or even the 3rd date, but I would expect her to be acting in a way that aligns with her words:  initiating physical contact, kissing, touching, etc., as well as participating in the dating process -- inviting you on a date or two, contacting you first, and so on.

14 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

I'll see how things go when she comes over for dinner on Friday.

Hope it works out.

[Helicon5]

3 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Okay well, I don't know what to make of that.

In this thread you have referred to things that you perceive as odd, beyond what she has told you.

Some points are certainly valid.

Have you considered that she may be dating others?

 

I can't say for sure because all I have to go by is what she tells me.

[Helicon5]

25 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

So she's hit the jackpot and her response is to....  do nothing? Be reticent? Make you chase?

This is a grown woman with adult children, not a pre-teen with her first crush. 

She's willing to tell you she finds you attractive but not willing to show you.  That doesn't mean she needs to have sex on the 1st date, or even the 3rd date, but I would expect her to be acting in a way that aligns with her words:  initiating physical contact, kissing, touching, etc., as well as participating in the dating process -- inviting you on a date or two, contacting you first, and so on.

Hope it works out.

So do I. What you said is exactly what I've been saying. She needs to show more considering the things she says, either by showing more affection when we're together or spending more time. I would sacrifice affection in place of her bringing me in more. As sweet and considerate as I've been she won't do that. Right now she's sort of an enigma. I know dating shouldn't be this difficult, but maybe the reason why I push is to understand the enigma. The last thing want to think is that she's being dishonest or hiding something in wanting to take it this slow.

Honestly, I can see why her ex stalked her. She's vague and doesn't let people in. It's too early to tell anything. I'll give it a couple more dates. If I feel she isn't wanting to give more, I'm out.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Helicon5

[Helicon5]

What we talked about must have resonated with her. She just texted me good morning and wish me a great day. She hasn't done that after we've set up a date. 🙂

Edited May 18, 2022 by Helicon5

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Helicon5 said:

I'll see how things go when she comes over for dinner on Friday.

Yes, make a nice dinner and make it a comfortable pleasant evening. It's better than bars and drinking.

[Helicon5]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Yes, make a nice dinner and make it a comfortable pleasant evening. It's better than bars and drinking.

I agree, and I plan to. I'm making her Mediterranean pasta. 🙂 Thanks bro.