Dating a new lady (combined thread)

[Uruktopi]

May be because I have some kind of allergia to what may smell like "ambiguous on purpose" (not being the same ambiguous than uncertain and not the same on purpose than concious) I would get out of that kind of emotional shadow boxing.

Do you enjoy her company as it is? Meet her like the friend she is now.

Do not chase what don´t seem enthusiasticaly welcome.

Once removed for some time the dating appearances and her role of gatekeeper of your intents, she may react to the implicit in some more explicit way.

Being it accepting the friendship with no further expectancies, asking for the next step or........dropping you cos you don´t play her game.

I´m NOT advising you this as a tactics to get more (sex, affection, romantic commitment). No.

Instead, it MAY lead to a more transparent situation.

Whatever you do, do not become an orbiter.

Best wishes. 

 

    

Edited May 23, 2022 by Uruktopi

[Acacia98]

10 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

The two of you have been dating for a month now. That's one month. Not everyone jumps into bed with a new partner right away.

I feel the same way.

OP, maybe she's just getting to know you first, maybe she's conservative, maybe she has a low sex drive, maybe she's going through menopause, maybe she's asexual, maybe she's flattered by the attention but isn't that interested herself, etc. I really can't tell. But one month truly isn't much time to my non-American self.

[Alpacalia]

24 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

I feel the same way.

OP, maybe she's just getting to know you first, maybe she's conservative, maybe she has a low sex drive, maybe she's going through menopause, maybe she's asexual, maybe she's flattered by the attention but isn't that interested herself, etc. I really can't tell. But one month truly isn't much time to my non-American self.

Certainly.

People who are sweet on each other don't go through such an arduous process of trying to figure out if they are into each other. 

Your own ambiguity reflects your desire not to risk asking her how she sees this developing and jeopardizing the picture you've painted. 

It may also be that you do not want to risk the whatchamacallit situation. But the longer this ambiguity persists, the less of a relationship it is.

[glows]

The OP mentioned he had invited her out guitar shopping but she wasn't interested. He did ask her out to another activity, not a home date. They may be limited as she has kids or schedule permitting. 

[S2B]

9 minutes ago, glows said:

The OP mentioned he had invited her out guitar shopping but she wasn't interested. He did ask her out to another activity, not a home date. They may be limited as she has kids or schedule permitting. 

Shopping for a guitar doesn’t equate to a date. He never said if he was buying her the guitar. So all the dates are designed to do something without spending much money.

she may not even have the money for a guitar. He never said “I’ll pay $200 for a guitar you may pick”.

plan a sporting event, concert or amusement  park! DO an event.

invest in your dates. Stop asking her “what do you want to do?” Dinner at your place signals you wanted to try and get intimate…she found a way to wiggle away = she isn’t that interested.

she said she wants a guy to take the lead yet you’ve been very passive!

a guy who takes the lead says “I have tickets for the Thursday game - at 7pm - want to go with me?”

[glows]

Just now, S2B said:

Shopping for a guitar doesn’t equate to a date. He never said if he was buying her the guitar. So all the dates are designed to do something without spending much money.

she may not even have the money for a guitar. He never said “I’ll pay $200 for a guitar you may pick”.

plan a sporting event, concert or amusement  park! DO an event.

invest in your dates. Stop asking her “what do you want to do?” Dinner at your place signals you wanted to try and get intimate…she found a way to wiggle away = she isn’t that interested.

she said she wants a guy to take the lead yet you’ve been very passive!

a guy who takes the lead says “I have tickets for the Thursday game - at 7pm - want to go with me?”

I see what you're saying but it's also considering what the OP is comfortable with. Not everyone equates a date with lavish spending.

[S2B]

Just now, glows said:

I see what you're saying but it's also considering what the OP is comfortable with. Not everyone equates a date with lavish spending.

yet “window shopping” doesn’t equate to much for a new dating experience.

it screams “I’m not invested in you!” I’m cheap. I don’t intend to spend on you to get to know you.

[S2B]

In the meantime - it looks like he’s in the friend zone.

[glows]

Yeah, not too sure what's going on here. I agree about showing initiative and interest.

[S2B]

If a guy says to me “let’s go shopping for ______”

I have no idea if he intends to help me “look” or “pay” or anything!

state exactly what your intentions are. Otherwise “she” is left wondering what the heck is going on. Do you intend to put money towards her purchase? If so, tell her that and exactly how much.

if not, say that too!

[introverted1]

3 hours ago, glows said:

The OP mentioned he had invited her out guitar shopping but she wasn't interested. He did ask her out to another activity, not a home date. They may be limited as she has kids or schedule permitting. 

Pretty sure the "kids" are all adults, with the youngest being 22-ish, IIRC. (Too lazy to dig through the thread to find the post.)

I think the bigger issue here is that she is not showing any investment in OP. She doesn't plan dates, doesn't seem to allow for any physical escalation, doesn't initiate affection or communication, and overall seems quite passive about her "relationship" with OP. 

To be clear, I don't necessarily think that people who've been dating a month have to be having sex, but 6 dates in I would expect some sort of physical interaction -- passionate kissing, at a minimum.  From what I've read, this lady has been completely hands off.  And this in spite of OP hanging around on her sofa until 4am.

[glows]

6 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Pretty sure the "kids" are all adults, with the youngest being 22-ish, IIRC. (Too lazy to dig through the thread to find the post.)

I think the bigger issue here is that she is not showing any investment in OP. She doesn't plan dates, doesn't seem to allow for any physical escalation, doesn't initiate affection or communication, and overall seems quite passive about her "relationship" with OP. 

To be clear, I don't necessarily think that people who've been dating a month have to be having sex, but 6 dates in I would expect some sort of physical interaction -- passionate kissing, at a minimum.  From what I've read, this lady has been completely hands off.  And this in spite of OP hanging around on her sofa until 4am.

It’s what the OP expects (not any one of us in my opinion) and he’s been patient with her. She has some traits he finds attractive about her and he’s dating to see whether this goes anywhere. This is his decision ultimately but I don’t think seeing her is an option if he keeps feeling as anxious and frustrated as he does. 

He can clarify if he wishes to keep seeing her. 

[Alpacalia]

13 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Pretty sure the "kids" are all adults, with the youngest being 22-ish, IIRC. (Too lazy to dig through the thread to find the post.)

I think the bigger issue here is that she is not showing any investment in OP. She doesn't plan dates, doesn't seem to allow for any physical escalation, doesn't initiate affection or communication, and overall seems quite passive about her "relationship" with OP. 

To be clear, I don't necessarily think that people who've been dating a month have to be having sex, but 6 dates in I would expect some sort of physical interaction -- passionate kissing, at a minimum.  From what I've read, this lady has been completely hands off.  And this in spite of OP hanging around on her sofa until 4am.

They're in their 50's and I thought this was their 4th date?

But maybe I'm wrong.

He did say that they've made-out.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Alpacalia

[chillii]

Well at least that's something romantically then. l'm not talking sexually, there's so much more to things than just jumping in the sack, especially at this age. Also too lazy to read back though but the way he described her early on l can appreciate , it's a smart way for her to be at this stage in life, if she really is interested. But with the ways op is with her, it's also hard to read from here without actually seeing them together bc there is a line between genuinely needing to move so slow and in ways, to just stringing along,even allowing just a little bit of touch,bait.So l think because of things like that op it's time you tested the waters a bit more seriously, bc you don't wanna be lead around in hope for 6mths going nowhere.

Edited May 23, 2022 by chillii

[Helicon5]

On 5/21/2022 at 8:00 AM, introverted1 said:

So she got you out of the house and away from an environment where anything could escalate physically. 

 

So how did you end up back at her house until 4am?  Whose idea was that and what did you do until 4am?

 

I think this should be the least of your questions.  Text or don't text, I fail to see how this will have any bearing on your "relationship" with this woman.

Yes, I knew that's why she suggested to go out, to avoid intimacy on the couch relaxing watching TV. There's no concern about that at her place because her daughter is there. She gave me the option though. I just chose to go out because I didn't want her to feel uncomfortable that I would try anything. 

She's the one who asked if I wanted to come in after we got back to her place. We just hungout and talked. We kissed passionately, but briefly for a minute not long before I left. Like I've been doing, not trying to go any further. I haven't even tried to get the second base yet with her.

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

. I haven't even tried to get the second base yet with her.

At some point you'll have to decide if acting like teens is worthwhile for you.

2 middle aged people with grown kids shouldn't be worrying about what base they're on.

If she's just not that into you and avoids intimacy, decide if being her friend is what you want.

[Helicon5]

11 hours ago, chillii said:

Well at least that's something romantically then. l'm not talking sexually, there's so much more to things than just jumping in the sack, especially at this age. Also too lazy to read back though but the way he described her early on l can appreciate , it's a smart way for her to be at this stage in life, if she really is interested. But with the ways op is with her, it's also hard to read from here without actually seeing them together bc there is a line between genuinely needing to move so slow and in ways, to just stringing along,even allowing just a little bit of touch,bait.So l think because of things like that op it's time you tested the waters a bit more seriously, bc you don't wanna be lead around in hope for 6mths going nowhere.

I agree. Here's the current update:

After our date last Friday she hit me up late Saturday afternoon and asked if I wanted to go out to see a band (the same band that I've known a long time, guest sing with, and that we've seen twice before) because her bf gf hit her up and ask her if she wanted to go out, so we went and had a great time. She had mentioned briefly about the possibility of me coming over to meet her dad the next day on Sunday, but it never happened.

Anyway, on Sunday morning I texted her good morning and I wished her a good day with her family and she wished me a good day as well. No mention of, "hey would you like to come over to meet my dad". Even though she had mentioned about doing that. I didn't push to hold her to her suggestion because we already saw each other two nights in a row. We've been getting along incredibly well and in my text I put that I'm here whenever she feels like chatting, but I didn't hear back from her. Then late Monday I hit her up (same as I've been doing the last 3 Mondays) and told her I call her later in the evening. She looked forward to it and we spoke for a while. I told her I was just relaxing at home watching Seinfeld episodes, which she took an interest in. She likes that show as well, but hasn't seen a lot of the episodes. I suggested to her we should do that either at my place or hers,cehich she agreed she would like. Then I asked her what she would like to do next (meaning when to get together and what she would like to do), and she said we could go to the music store on Saturday. Again, she says she's not sure if she's having band practice this week (Tuesday and Thursday). I have yet to see her once during a weeknight. Most of the time she says she has band practice, it never happens. We talked about ex's briefly last night (shared stories). She asked the last name of my ex and I told her, and she said she may know her, but she's not sure. I'm assuming she's probably going to check her out on social media just to satisfy her curiosity. The thing is I still know nothing about her band members. She talks about them all the time and gigs their planning, but they never practice, and about her one older guitar player who is dying of stage 4 prostate cancer, but I haven't seen any verifiable proof of anything. She showed me a picture of her guitarist that is sick guitarist, but it was from years ago. She also showed me a couple of pictures from when she was in a band 15 years ago. If you include the last two dates on Friday on Saturday we've had a total of 6 dates so far in almost 2 months. We get along amazingly, she thinks I'm sweet, I make her laugh, she's been to my home, she really likes being together, but I have yet to see her during the week or meet her band guys that she talks about on every date. I spoke with my brother and his wife and they suggested that when she mentions it, tell her, yes I would like to do that, when would be a good day. I tried doing that but she won't give me a definite. Everything's always up in the air. She said they may have a gig coming up, but I didn't ask her where. Her whole band thing seems to be shrouded in mystery. I have nothing tangible to go on, only what she tells me. She said she would like to have me there, but feels awkward because I would just be sitting there listening to her sing.

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Helicon5

[Helicon5]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

At some point you'll have to decide if acting like teens is worthwhile for you.

2 middle aged people with grown kids shouldn't be worrying about what base they're on.

If she's just not that into you and avoids intimacy, decide if being her friend is what you want.

I know. I agreed. So far, I've been nothing short of perfect for her. A true gentleman. Not pushy, polite, considerate, etc  She says she attracted to me, but would like to be friends first. I feel like I gained some ground with her inviting me out again on Saturday, but as far as seeing her during the week or meeting her band members it's still at a snail's pace. She says she has a lot of guy friends, but doesn't see much of them. She mentioned about this one BFF guy friend of hers who was paying for her Netflix, but he told her he had to stop because his gf didn't like it. She told me on our date on Friday that he would be the perfect guy, but she's not attracted to him. Like I said, everything has been going fantastic, she's just bringing me in little bits at a time. I don't want to give up on it assuming that she really doesn't want anything or that she's hiding something (has another guy she's interested in).

Edited May 24, 2022 by Helicon5

[Kamille]

One of the band members is dying of prostate cancer? That could explain why practices get cancelled and why she can't easily pin down a moment when you can meet them.

As to the friends first: are you sure you're ok with this? It sounds like you're trying to be because you really like her. Yet, here you are trying to find problems where none exist, likely because this friendship-situationship isn't satisfying your need for connection. 

Once you admit this to yourself, you can realize that your fears are motivated not by whether or not she texts at 4am, or whether or not you're going to meet her bandmates.  Your fears stem from your unmet needs. You could her this: tell her that you're loving getting to know her as a friend but that you would love to move the relationship forward romantically. 

I have to say it's really sweet how into her you are. Rooting for you. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Kamille

[Wiseman2]

32 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

She says she attracted to me, but would like to be friends first. I feel like I gained some ground with her inviting me out again on Saturday, but as far as seeing her during the week or meeting her band members it's still at a snail's pace.

Meeting her bandmates is irrelevant. Focus on planning better dates than late night bars/clubs and hanging out at her house until 4 am. You seem strangely focused on odd things such as whether she answers texts at 4am or meeting her bandmates.

Focus on her hands-off and friends-first approach to keep  you at an arms length. Unfortunately she treats you like a buddy.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Helicon5]

14 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Meeting her bandmates is irrelevant. Focus on planning better dates than late night bars/clubs and hanging out at her house until 4 am. You seem strangely focused on odd things such as whether she answers texts at 4am or meeting her bandmates.

Focus on her hands-off and friends-first approach to keep  you at an arms length. Unfortunately she treats you like a buddy.

In hindsight, her getting back to me next morning or waiting up to hear from me is irrelevant, I'll agree, but on every date she mentions her band members and how she would like for me to meet them. If she's not meeting with them for band practice on Tuesday or Thursdays I don't know why she doesn't ask if I would like to come over and hang out either of those days. How long do I let the once a week thing go on just on a Friday or Saturday without ever seeing her during the week? We've kissed passionately, so it isn't really just friends. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Helicon5

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

How long do I let the once a week thing go on just on a Friday or Saturday without ever seeing her during the week?

As long as you can tolerate her friendzoning and keeping you at arms length. Does she have a day job? Why can't you two grab a bite to eat after work? Have you suggested that? If she is busy on certain nights, pick another.

Do not go to her house until 4 am anymore. You're wearing out your welcome and it's becoming more a of a teen girls slumber party situation. Have a date in a nonbar nonclub venue then go home.

[Helicon5]

13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

As long as you can tolerate her friendzoning and keeping you at arms length. Does she have a day job? Why can't you two grab a bite to eat after work? Have you suggested that? If she is busy on certain nights, pick another.

Do not go to her house until 4 am anymore. You're wearing out your welcome and it's becoming more a of a teen girls slumber party situation. Have a date in a nonbar nonclub venue then go home.

She invited me in after those Friday night dates. I didn't ask. That didn't happen though on Saturday night. I just dropped her off after we came back from the bar around 11 pm. I mentioned this. Yes she does work, 5 days per week during the day. Like I said, she has her supposed band practice on Tuesday's and Thursday's and on Wednesday she has card night with her dad and family. The thing is she's hardly practiced much with her band on Tuesday or Thursday nights. She always gives me reasons why they didn't practice. She doesn't do anything on Monday nights. That's when we usually talk on the phone. Last night I asked her when she would like to get together again and she said we could do the music store thing on saturday, but she didn't say well if I don't have band practice we can get together on Tuesday or Thursday. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Helicon5

[Wiseman2]

Just now, Helicon5 said:

she has her supposed band practice on Tuesday's and Thursday's and on Wednesday she has card night with her dad and family. 

Ok, so that leaves weekend, so? Stop going to bars. Think of interesting romantic things to do. This bar and club hopping sounds utterly boring, even if she suggests it.

[glows]

1 hour ago, Kamille said:

One of the band members is dying of prostate cancer? That could explain why practices get cancelled and why she can't easily pin down a moment when you can meet them.

As to the friends first: are you sure you're ok with this? It sounds like you're trying to be because you really like her. Yet, here you are trying to find problems where none exist, likely because this friendship-situationship isn't satisfying your need for connection. 

Once you admit this to yourself, you can realize that your fears are motivated not by whether or not she texts at 4am, or whether or not you're going to meet her bandmates.  Your fears stem from your unmet needs. You could her this: tell her that you're loving getting to know her as a friend but that you would love to move the relationship forward romantically. 

I have to say it's really sweet how into her you are. Rooting for you. 

Agree. Very well written. I think you both need to communicate better, OP.