Dating a new lady (combined thread)

[Helicon5]

36 minutes ago, FMW said:

I've been involved with a musician for about 2 1/2 years.  His various band mates were the first of "his people" I met.  Band mates share a special bond and it's important for significant others to be able to click with them in order to be accepted and included in the circle.  We live in a large city, but the music community is very tight and everyone knows everyone.  Our community does consist mostly of career musicians that do music full time, but even those still working "day jobs" are tightly connected.  It's easy to find information on them through social media and music websites.    

You never having met her bandmates is only one of the things that seem off about this.  After 6 or 7 dates you should be moving in a definite direction, not still so unsure about what's going on.  No, you don't have to be sexually involved or making declarations.  But if you both are 50+ there should be more direction and purpose, even if it's just being able to expect you will have dinner together or whatever on a weekly basis, during which time you continue to get to know each other better.  Not clearly understanding what she does for a living other than music or what kind of schedule she keeps at this point is odd. 

At this stage in life most people who find themselves single have been through a little trauma and drama, but we still manage to connect and build new relationships.  If she's truly that scarred by past relationships, it's probably in your best interest to not get any more invested in her unless she starts reciprocating the effort.    

I get the feeling you tend to be nervous and unsure about relationships anyway, but this woman is clearly giving you plenty of reasons to feel that way.  

Yea. I don't know what the deal is with the once per week thing only on the weekends. She keeps dangling a carrot in front of my face telling me she would like me to meet these band guys, but hasn't done it. There's always a reason. One week she said she had ductwork done on her house and they didn't practice that week. Other times she told me that they didn't practice because her one guitarist wasn't feeling well, but then she'll say "well if we do practice this week it wouldn't be  a week to come over because the guys will want to have a serious practice to catch up on the time they missed". She also said she would feel awkward having me there hearing her sing anyway or that I would be bored. If that's the case why did she ever ask me to come over to meet them in the first place and why does she keep saying she would like to? This is why I'm going to talk to her when I see her on Saturday because I'm really starting to believe it's BS. She needs to let me see one way or another that this is REAL. If she doesn't want me to be there then take pics of them practicing together......I don't care.....anything....just let me see 'something' instead of just talking about it because I'm doing my best to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Helicon5

[basil67]

xxx

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by basil67

[basil67]

26 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

I'm really starting to believe it's BS. She needs to let me see one way or another that this is REAL. If she doesn't want me to be there then take pics of them practicing together......I don't care.....anything....just let me see 'something' instead of just talking about it because I'm doing my best to give her the benefit of the doubt.

You've got good reason to believe it's BS.  But she does not need to do anything.  She has a right to her own decisions and choices, whether those decisions make sense to you or not.

When someone else's actions start to bring out our less than best behaviour, it's time to walk away.  

[Helicon5]

My sister-in-law said that maybe the reason why she doesn't inquire about what I do during the week is because she doesn't want to have to divulge what she did.

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

if she's a fake, then she'll be found out and disappear from your life.   But if she's simply just slow on the introductions, then your actions will come across as demanding and disrespectful and if she has an ounce of self protection skills, she'll stop seeing you.  And then she'll be glad she didn't introduce you to her friends because the relationship crashed and burned.

Instead of going down this path which is has been brought on by your own frustration, just make a decision.  Does she meet your needs or not?  If she meets them, then continue and be patient. Make the decision yourself without placing demands on her. 

 

Great points. You're right, if it's real I'll know at some point. She can't keep it a secret forever if I'm being good to her and she has no reason to break it off. I won't press her on it, only keep suggesting in a nice way that I would like to.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Helicon5

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

My sister-in-law said that maybe the reason why she doesn't inquire about what I do during the week is because she doesn't want to have to divulge what she did.

Great points. You're right, if it's real I'll know at some point. She can't keep it a secret forever if I'm being good to her and she has no reason to break it off.

But is she really worth all the drama which is going on in your head?   Wouldn't you be better off waiting for a lovely woman who's an open book?  

Re not asking about your week, she also might not ask because she has little interest in you or what you do.  Some people are just about themselves and just aren't interested in the lives of those around them.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by basil67

[Helicon5]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

But is she really worth all the drama which is going on in your head?   Wouldn't you be better off waiting for a lovely woman who's an open book? 

 

Good women are hard to find in this area. Everyone's drunken party animals with bad attitudes who chase musicians for the sex and hide things. Been there many times. She's different. She's not a party animal and would prefer to spend her time at home. The question is, is she keeping me from this because she's hiding something or just nervous for me to meet them for whatever reason? It depends on who you talk to on here. Some think she's taking me for a ride, others think she's probably a good person who needs to feel safe before she opens up.

[basil67]

Thing is, we can only guess what her reasons are for being so closed...but you're the one who's living it so it's up to you to make your own choices.   Let's face it, she's physically, emotionally and socially closed off.  Perhaps it's just the way she is or perhaps she's hiding something.  We don't know, but I'm really not sure what the positives about her are.  

If you're having trouble finding women who aren't band groupies, why not look outside the band social life for women?  Just like if you were really wealthy and avoiding gold diggers simply don't fully disclose your life straight up.

 

[Helicon5]

42 minutes ago, basil67 said:

But is she really worth all the drama which is going on in your head?   Wouldn't you be better off waiting for a lovely woman who's an open book?  

Re not asking about your week, she also might not ask because she has little interest in you or what you do.  Some people are just about themselves and just aren't interested in the lives of those around them.

 

 

Selfishness. That's another trait I see all too often. My ex was like that. She even admitted it. No one trusts and everyone hides their true self.

[Helicon5]

34 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Thing is, we can only guess what her reasons are for being so closed...but you're the one who's living it so it's up to you to make your own choices.   Let's face it, she's physically, emotionally and socially closed off.  Perhaps it's just the way she is or perhaps she's hiding something.  We don't know, but I'm really not sure what the positives about her are.  

If you're having trouble finding women who aren't band groupies, why not look outside the band social life for women?  Just like if you were really wealthy and avoiding gold diggers simply don't fully disclose your life straight up.

 

The thing is, if I give up now I'll never know the truth. Was she hiding something or was she a good woman who really wants to be with me, but who was testing me first to see if I'm like all the other guys she had in her life that didn't trust her or who she couldn't trust? I'm trying to see the world through her eyes and why she is the way she is. As long as I keep talking to her and she wants to be with me I'll find out more one way or another. I could chase other women, but with my luck I'll just run into the same crap I've run into in the past. Maybe she knows her worth and wants someone who sees that as well. Am I deluding myself believing in her or seeing things the way a woman expects a man to see things? She told me she doesn't play games. The question is whether or not to believe it.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Helicon5

[basil67]

A woman who tests you isn't worth having.   A woman with trust issues isn't worth having until they sort themselves out.  A woman who has a history of men not trusting her is likely the common factor in it all and is not worth trusting. 

Given your earlier reaction where you're feeling all demanding about meeting the crew she jams with, you're already at the point of being a lesser man than you want to be.   No woman is worth you being a lesser man for.

 

[Helicon5]

 

35 minutes ago, basil67 said:

A woman who tests you isn't worth having.   A woman with trust issues isn't worth having until they sort themselves out.  A woman who has a history of men not trusting her is likely the common factor in it all and is not worth trusting. 

Given your earlier reaction where you're feeling all demanding about meeting the crew she jams with, you're already at the point of being a lesser man than you want to be.   No woman is worth you being a lesser man for.

 

I agree. The problem is no woman I've come across trusts. Not a single one I've ever been with, regardless of how good I treat them. I have to be a lesser man for everybody in order to get anywhere. At this age distrust It's engrained from decades of past relationships not working out. They're all over-cautious they're making another mistake. That's the way she is. She even told me in so many words. That's why she wants to be friends first (as if that makes a difference), but even friends turn in each other. Relationships are a risk. If you're not willing to go all in to take that risk it's going to fail. I wish she understood that. I'd like to know that I've given her no reason to think I'd be like her ex. The proof is that she's going with me because she could see that I'm not, or else she wouldn't be. So  why not bring me in sooner?

Edited May 25, 2022 by Helicon5

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, Helicon5 said:

Are you talking about the famous guy she knows? No, he's not in her band. He lives far away and she said she rarely sees him.

I don't know why she would see me meeting her band members as a big step. Why offer to do it if she has no intention of going through with it?

There is no valid reason for her to be terrified. Everything's been going great. I'm going to find out what the deal is this weekend about me meeting these guys and spending time during the week, even if it's just for a couple of hours at her place, unless she invites me over before our next date on Saturday, which I'm not holding my breath that she'll do. 

No.

You mentioned she has a male friend who has a crush on her, so I thought maybe he might be a band member and that is why she did not introduce you to her band members. I was just looking at it from different angles.

I can only conclude that she is more guarded because her last relationship turned obsessive towards her. Or, maybe she's just not a loose goose and an open book after knowing someone for 1.5 months.

One of my closest female friends of over 20 years, has a similar personality. Her long-term partner, who she has been with for over 15 years, has the complete opposite personality; he is extremely extroverted whereas she is not. Her personality suits his.

From what I recall you posting, the other two long-term relationships this woman was in appeared to have been fine.

It is really hard to tell at this point. It seems after 6 dates you know quite a bit about each other, but there is still just the mysticism that surrounds the band. It is also evident that one of the reasons that you are attracted to her so much, is that she is refreshing as opposed to some of the other, more unrestrained women that you have been with before.

In this case, it may be that you are more focused on this being the one that really sticks since you already had past relationships with women with complete opposite personalities that have not worked out.

 

[Helicon5]

17 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

No.

You mentioned she has a male friend who has a crush on her, so I thought maybe he might be a band member and that is why she did not introduce you to her band members. I was just looking at it from different angles.

I can only conclude that she is more guarded because her last relationship turned obsessive towards her. Or, maybe she's just not a loose goose and an open book after knowing someone for 1.5 months.

One of my closest female friends of over 20 years, has a similar personality. Her long-term partner, who she has been with for over 15 years, has the complete opposite personality; he is extremely extroverted whereas she is not. Her personality suits his.

From what I recall you posting, the other two long-term relationships this woman was in appeared to have been fine.

It is really hard to tell at this point. It seems after 6 dates you know quite a bit about each other, but there is still just the mysticism that surrounds the band. It is also evident that one of the reasons that you are attracted to her so much, is that she is refreshing as opposed to some of the other, more unrestrained women that you have been with before.

In this case, it may be that you are more focused on this being the one that really sticks since you already had past relationships with women with complete opposite personalities that have not worked out.

 

Perfect said, although the only male friend I mentioned that has a crush on her was the famous guy who's been after her for years. Realistically all her male friends have crushes on her, she knows it, but won't go there with them because she's not attracted to them and she lets them know that. She told me she's gone out to bars with some of her male friends and guys won't come near her because they thought they were together. That's probably why she was out with her girlfriend when I met her. If she's with one of a male friends I wouldn't have approached her either. She won't go to a bar alone. Now that we're together I don't think she'll go with her girlfriend either without me. She didn't on Saturday. She could have went out with her girlfriend without me, but she didn't.

What I like about her is she's not promiscuous. She has very discerning tastes in looks and personality. If she won't jump in the sack with me after this long she probably won't for anyone else because she is also over-cautious. The wait is tough, but I like that. I don't care about the sex necessarily. I just want to know if she's trusting enough in me to want me to meet her friends and if not, why. She can see in me already I'm nothing like her ex. I agreed with her that all the things her ex did wasn't right. She said he was a bully to other people and mean. I've been and am the complete opposite.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Helicon5

[chillii]

5 hours ago, Helicon5 said:

No, she wouldn't think that. I sing with big local bands that are lifelong seasoned musicians and probably play ten times better than the guys she has. I like most people. There are very few people I don't like or don't get along with. None of those are the reason I can assure you. 

This might be the band thing, or a combo, She probably knows she doesn't play well to her your probably a big deal musically she's self conscious. The someone in the band, don't think that's it. Wouldn't worry she's only known you a few mths and as bas said there's many reasons people hold of with intro's. 2mths is absolutely nothing except for your worrying about it. Your not even together really.

At any rate appreciate the way you feel about her and why and that doesn't grow on trees. So it's well worth hanging in there for now imo and there could be things, something, other reasons yet to reveal. Plenty of women here may have ideas.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by chillii

[Alpacalia]

5 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

Perfect said. She's not promiscuous. If she won't jump in the sack with me after this long she probably won't for anyone else because she is over-cautious. The wait is tough, I like that. I don't care about the sex necessarily. I just want to know if she's trusting enough in me to want me to meet her friends and if not, why. She can see in me already I'm nothing like her ex. I agreed with her that all the things her ex did wasn't right. She said he was a bully to other people and mean. I've been and am the complete opposite.

Glad it helped.

In addition to the fact that this is one of the reasons you like her so much, I am curious to know of any occasions when she has gone out of her way to be nice to you or has shown you support in any way. In what ways do you feel she shows up for you?

[Helicon5]

25 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Glad it helped.

In addition to the fact that this is one of the reasons you like her so much, I am curious to know of any occasions when she has gone out of her way to be nice to you or has shown you support in any way. In what ways do you feel she shows up for you?

She's agreeable to everything. Any plans I make she's fine with. She also promotes my singing. She loves to watch me sing. Every time we go out to see the band that I've sang with for years she asks me if I'm going to get up and sing. The last time I walked out into the crowd and sang right to her and her friends. They loved it. They were like "Wow!! That was awesome!!

Her gf really likes me as well. I can tell. Not romantically just as a good guy for her friend to be with. Her girlfriend got stood up last Saturday night, that's why we went out to the bar with her to cheer her up. Her gf probably respects the crap out of me for not doing that to her friend. I told them that guy was a jerk for doing that. I don't know a friend well, but she's a very bubbly outgoing person.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Helicon5

[ExpatInItaly]

I am getting the impression that this woman is a bigger deal in her own mind than reality lends itself to. 

She's apparently got a famous guy wh is obssessed with her - that lives far away and she almost never sees anyway. 

Then she's got a "band" - that has only been together 4 months, rarely practices, has hardly ever played anywhere, and includes one poor guy who is losing his life. 

See the pattern here? There might be some kernels of truth in there somewhere, but my strong assumption is that she's bigging herself up to sound more "impressive" or desirable.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Helicon5 said:

. She also promotes my singing. She loves to watch me sing. Every time we go out to see the band that I've sang with for years she asks me if I'm going to get up and sing. 

Does she come to the places you perform? Is it an occupation or a hobby? 

[Helicon5]

4 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I am getting the impression that this woman is a bigger deal in her own mind than reality lends itself to. 

She's apparently got a famous guy wh is obssessed with her - that lives far away and she almost never sees anyway. 

Then she's got a "band" - that has only been together 4 months, rarely practices, has hardly ever played anywhere, and includes one poor guy who is losing his life. 

See the pattern here? There might be some kernels of truth in there somewhere, but my strong assumption is that she's bigging herself up to sound more "impressive" or desirable.

I can see your point. She's only giving me little glimpses into her life possibly because she doesn't want me to know the truth. I've considered that. 

[Helicon5]

I woke up this morning with a not so great feeling about the whole thing. I don't know. 🙄 I have to admit that after our conversation on Monday where I made her go 'awwe' because I told her I'd rather have her at my place watching Seinfeld instead of watching it alone, it isn't sitting well that she hasn't contacted me to say hi or ask if I'd like to get together before our date on Saturday. Considering that I have been so sweet to her, is there any 'missing' on her part? Normally when someone's sweet enough to make you go 'awwe', it draws them closer to the point where they miss you and there's a longing. Band or not why would she let me hang till Saturday if she thinks I'm so sweet? This I don't get.

I thought about texting her tomorrow morning if I don't hear from her today and ask her if she has band practice tomorrow night, but Im not sure if I should. I don't want to push it before our date. She did ask me if I'd like to do something after we go guitar shopping on Saturday. I don't think I gave her a definite on what we can do. After the guitar store I'm just going to suggest got back to my place to relax and watch Seinfeld.

I forgot to mention that when we had dinner at my place she changed her mind and decided that she would drive herself over instead of having me picking her up. She claimed she wanted to because I was making us dinner and she didn't want to obligate me to have to pick her up and drop her back off at her house, then drive home again. Yea, maybe she felt that way, but I don't think that was the reason. I think she wanted to leave herself and 'out' just in case things weren't going well. I'll see how it goes this Saturday after the music store if I ask her if she wants to come back to my place, then see if she wants to stop off at her place to pick up her own car or allows me to keep driving. Her allowing me to drive her back to my place would show a lot of trust. I could do one of two things, since it would be the 2nd time having her over my place I could make moves to see how far she's willing to go, or ask her if she'd just like to cuddle and crash the couch till morning. Do you think her agreeing to spend the night even without sex would be a big step?

Edited May 25, 2022 by Helicon5

[introverted1]

11 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

Would her agreeing to spend the night even without sex be a big step?

Why would you do this?  You are well past the age of platonic sleep overs with friends.  And no, it wouldn't be a big step.  It would just further solidify you as her friend.

I read a lot of excuse-making into your responses:  maybe she's timid, maybe she's distrustful, maybe she likes to go slow, etc. But even putting aside any sort of physical escalation, she has done nothing to actually advance this "relationship":  she has yet to organize a date, reach out asking to see you, or otherwise taken any steps to indicate she is anything more than a passive participant.

She's a grown woman!  And it's been 2 months.  Either she wants to move things forward or she doesn't.  You are operating as if, with enough patience and "good guy" behavior on your part, she will come around.  If she is that damaged that she cannot do more than allow you to do the "pick me" dance, I am not sure what you think will change down the road. 

Is this really what you want for your life?

Edited May 25, 2022 by introverted1

[Helicon5]

15 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

She has yet to organize a date, reach out asking to see you, or otherwise taken any steps to indicate she is anything more than a passive participant.

She's a grown woman!  And it's been 2 months.  Either she wants to move things forward or she doesn't.  You are operating as if, with enough patience and "good guy" behavior on your part, she will come around.  If she is that damaged that she cannot do more than allow you to do the "pick me" dance, I am not sure what you think will change down the road. 

Is this really what you want for your life?

Actually she has reached out and setup a date. We went out on Friday night, then she hit me up late Saturday afternoon out of the blue and asked if I wanted to go out again to hangout with her and her friend. She didn't have to do that. I also asked her what she would like to do this week when I called her Monday night. She said we could go to the music stores and asked if I'd like to do something after that. So yes, she is putting in some effort and planning.

With that being said, even though we'll have a full day on Saturday together I am a little surprised she wouldn't want to get together sooner as well. Am I asking too much? Or should I just wait till Saturday?

Edited May 25, 2022 by Helicon5

[chillii]

So while your out with her friend, out anywhere for that matter, do guys cuddle or kiss or sit snuggled in hold hands, anything ?

Edited May 25, 2022 by chillii

[introverted1]

6 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

she hit me up late Saturday afternoon and asked if I wanted to go out with her and her friend.

I am referring to an actual date, where she plans an outing, picks you up, pays, etc.  Not a casual invite to accompany her on an outing she already has scheduled with a friend.

6 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

I also asked her what she would like to do this week when I called her Monday night. She said we could go to the music stores

See above - also not a date.

You seem very invested in her in spite of her lack of reciprocity.  I hope you get what you want from this.

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by introverted1

[Helicon5]

5 minutes ago, chillii said:

So while your out with her friend, out anywhere for that matter, do guys cuddle or kiss or sit snuggled in hold hands, anything ?

We've kiss passionately, but I backed off because we're at her place with her daughter there. We didn't kiss when she was at my place. I didn't want to push it because it was the first time having her here. I reach out to hold her hand and we do, but she doesn't do that first, in the car or anywhere. I know I'm being overly considerate.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Helicon5