Dating a new lady (combined thread)

[Wiseman2]

There are probably some women who only look for foodie calls just like there men who only look for booty calls. 

These gender stereotypes really do no one any good. Take each person/situation for who/what it is not some meme.

Go on the date without the tin hat and hope for the best with confidence that she is dating because she likes you, not because she's hungry.

Just like you are dating her because you like her, not just because you're horny.

No matter what anyone avers, how would you feel if she was thinking "he's only trying to get in my pants", like you are being convinced that "she only wants to get in my wallet". Follow your own wisdom.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Alpacalia]

I think it's a valid concern.

As a starting point, I would try finding out what cool things about you are interesting for you apart from the willingness to spend money on dinner.

Make sure you're doing the things that you'd do regardless of whether you were with a woman. Take it easy. Let her express an interest in you. Don't rush it at all. 

It's a good thing if you try not to become overly concerned about girls looking for free food.

If you're overly fixed on looking for signs that a girl is using you for a free meal, you are probably not putting on the best front possible. In fact, you could even come off as somewhat suspicious and paranoid.

Having said that - make sure you give her the possibility to reciprocate.

Challenge her and ask her to show you what sort of things she enjoys doing. When you next meet, ask her to plan something for the both of you to do.  If she's only interested in receiving a free meal, she wouldn't care to show you the things she likes to do, since those things take time, effort, and thought.

[poppyfields]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Take each person/situation for who/what it is not some meme.

I do agree with this^, and jmo but reading @Helicon5 original post, this woman's behavior on the date, not just her not offering to pay for anything, caused him a feeling of unease and distrust.

So he IS taking her and this situation for what it is, not following some meme, and he doesn't feel good about it, hence this thread. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong @Helicon5.

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Helicon5 said:

That's always stuck in the back of my mind about coming across someone who would do that. I don't want to assume anything bad as far as motives

Maybe it's dead in the water already because you don't trust her to be a decent person and have already mentally put her in the 'free meal' basket . As long as you have these prejudices, dating someone for who they are could prove difficult. try to have confidence in yourself and others rather than that they have nefarious motives.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Helicon5]

43 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I think it's a valid concern.

As a starting point, I would try finding out what cool things about you are interesting for you apart from the willingness to spend money on dinner.

Make sure you're doing the things that you'd do regardless of whether you were with a woman. Take it easy. Let her express an interest in you. Don't rush it at all. 

It's a good thing if you try not to become overly concerned about girls looking for free food.

If you're overly fixed on looking for signs that a girl is using you for a free meal, you are probably not putting on the best front possible. In fact, you could even come off as somewhat suspicious and paranoid.

Having said that - make sure you give her the possibility to reciprocate.

Challenge her and ask her to show you what sort of things she enjoys doing. When you next meet, ask her to plan something for the both of you to do.  If she's only interested in receiving a free meal, she wouldn't care to show you the things she likes to do, since those things take time, effort, and thought.

Exactly what I'm concerned about. I've been making all the effort, which is why I suggested it would be a good thing if she at least offered,  so I know she's bringing something to the table besides charm and good looks. I don't know about every other guy, but I'm done giving, giving and giving and getting little in return. I don't mind paying again. I really don't because I like her, but she has to give me a little more to go on after this date. I can understand not being too close too soon, but I don't want to wait another two weeks before our next date. If that's what she wants to do then I won't bother. Once per week to get to know each other is reasonable. Today feels like our first date again because she's like a stranger. We haven't even spoken on the phone yet. Must I be forward with everything and ask her if she would like to speak on the phone? These are the kind of things I'm referring to. It's easy to just sit back and say okay to everything.

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Helicon5

[basil67]

My 2c is that she's either got walls like a fortress or you're in the friendzone.   And I also find it odd that you're scared to ask her questions.  Thing is, asking about someone's life is how you get to know them.   Conversely, if they don't want to answer those questions, it means they either have something to hide or don't want to let you in.

Frankly, I see the lack of her offering to pay as being the least of your problems.  And I say that as a woman who's contributed financially on dates.

Edited April 30, 2022 by basil67

[Helicon5]

27 minutes ago, basil67 said:

My 2c is that she's either got walls like a fortress or you're in the friendzone.   And I also find it odd that you're scared to ask her questions.  Thing is, asking about someone's life is how you get to know them.   Conversely, if they don't want to answer those questions, it means they either have something to hide or don't want to let you in.

Frankly, I see the lack of her offering to pay as being the least of your problems.  And I say that as a woman who's contributed financially on dates.

I don't know if I'm in the friend zone. Some people take time to warm up. They don't get all infatuated. I may have to work at. We have to have such a good time where she misses me, however long that is. I don't know what else she has going on in her life to keep her pre-occupied.

It's like walking a tightrope. Some women I've dated made it easy to know right off the bat what they're looking for. She's different. I may have to grow on her before she opens up. I am a little nervous to ask too much. You know how the game works, don't show you care or want to know, otherwise you look like a the suspicious type.

[Alpacalia]

59 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

Exactly what I'm concerned about. I've been making all the effort, which is why I suggested it would be a good thing if she at least offered,  so I know she's bringing something to the table besides charm and good looks. I don't know about every other guy, but I'm done giving, giving and giving and getting little in return. I don't mind paying again. I really don't because I like her, but she has to give me a little more to go on after this date. I can understand not being too close too soon, but I don't want to wait another two weeks before our next date. If that's what she wants to do then I won't bother. Once per week to get to know each other is reasonable. Today feels like our first date again because she's like a stranger. We haven't even spoken on the phone yet. Must I be forward with everything and ask her if she would like to speak on the phone? These are the kind of things I'm referring to. It's easy to just sit back and say okay to everything.

 

Does this mean that she has not offered to chip in at all?

Did she treat you to anything like a round of drinks, shots, or appetizers? Did she ever offer you anything like that?

What is she asking you about your hobbies and how you live your life every day?

For the two-week gap for date two, did you not mention that you've met up between the two dates? In your other thread, you said that she had to travel in order to fulfill her business obligations or you mentioned something about having to work on a weekend?

When you decide to initiate the calls and texts and you find that she ignores you, gives you a short response, or, in a nutshell, that there are other factors in addition to her behavior, that is when I'd be concerned.

It is true that all women are different from one another, but some find it more comfortable to let others start conversations. On the other hand, other women initiate the conversation themselves.

Communication is not taught very early on in most relationships, despite how important it is to how we build our relationships. On the other hand, we are expected to interpret behavior by reading red flags and signs and deciphering what they mean in order to make the right decisions.

There is always an option to say that you really enjoy talking to her, and it would be great if she would call you on a particular day.

So, this is date two?

Why not wait and see how things turn out on date two.

I think you will find it perfectly natural to prefer someone to pull more weight at the beginning of any relationship; it does not mean that there are necessarily ulterior motives when it doesn't always happen right away. It may just mean that you will not make a good match.

I understand that there are many feelings of self-doubt and questions coming from your side of things. . . . "Why did she want to meet on a Friday or Saturday, why did she want to meet at 6pm, why did she not want to meet earlier?" In your other thread, you asked why does she work on weekends. 

I'm just wondering, at this point, if you are looking for things with a view to confirming confirmation bias, since that may be at play here.

 

 

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

I don't know if I'm in the friend zone. Some people take time to warm up. They don't get all infatuated. I may have to work at. We have to have such a good time where she misses me, however long that is. I don't know what else she has going on in her life to keep her pre-occupied.

It's like walking a tightrope. Some women I've dated made it easy to know right off the bat what they're looking for. She's different. I may have to grow on her before she opens up. I am a little nervous to ask too much. You know how the game works, don't show you care or want to know, otherwise you look like a the suspicious type.

Back in my dating days, I never did games, didn't get nervous about asking questions and I could never be bothered with someone who took time to warm up or who I needed to work at.   I certainly didn't view someone asking regular "getting to know you" questions as being a suspicious type.

Is your approach the type of dating you really enjoy?  Because it sounds like a lot of hard work rather than pleasure to me.

[Versacehottie]

6 hours ago, Helicon5 said:

Exactly what I'm concerned about. I've been making all the effort, which is why I suggested it would be a good thing if she at least offered,  so I know she's bringing something to the table besides charm and good looks. I don't know about every other guy, but I'm done giving, giving and giving and getting little in return. I don't mind paying again. I really don't because I like her, but she has to give me a little more to go on after this date. I can understand not being too close too soon, but I don't want to wait another two weeks before our next date. If that's what she wants to do then I won't bother. Once per week to get to know each other is reasonable. Today feels like our first date again because she's like a stranger. We haven't even spoken on the phone yet. Must I be forward with everything and ask her if she would like to speak on the phone? These are the kind of things I'm referring to. It's easy to just sit back and say okay to everything.

 

Honestly, I think you have to take your current state of mind on this subject and this girl into consideration. IMO, you are overthinking it...it's going to be the second date, right? So probably your expectations regarding how assured you would be at this moment are too high.  It reads like you are approaching the whole thing either with this girl or perhaps systematically (bolded is one clue) with a chip on your shoulder or maybe even a whiny attitude. If those are the beliefs you are bringing to the date and the interactions, it's going to color EVERYTHING.  I would also say why the need to pussyfoot around things?? It does feel like you are doing that in some respects.  Maybe switch your intention to seeing if YOU like her vs the wish to acquire her affection/convince HER to like you.  That's more empowering.   And speaking of empowered and what is easy and what is hard...traditional dating norms aren't that set up for women to feel super empowered really--they are in a waiting state/waiting for someone to choose them.   If you spend too much time hating societal norms rather than navigating based on your personal strengths, you just come off as a pessimist which is an uphill dating battle, period.

Here's a reality check about the much-smaller-percentage of women (than you believe there are) that do use guys for things..dinner is small potatoes.  Lol, they look at the whole picture and a guy without much to offer financial or status in total is not who they are going after for "a dinner". Think Amber Heard. So if you have little to offer financially or status-wise or access to places/exciting expensive things, you probably are not getting used. It sounds like you've got your eye on your money so I really doubt that is what is happening here. Like basil said, if anything she sounds like she is only moderately interested at the moment (if anything!)...otherwise, she could be hard to warm up, nervous herself or you aren't reading her right due to your own insecurities and reading people skills. 

In a way, you need to look at it like a job interview, both you and she want the date/interview to go well. Both are hoping they've found the perfect candidate/perfect job opening. That sort of mentality should give you more confidence to make it through a date successfully.  Also on that same note, to hopefully add to the list of reasons to DISPEL the idea that she is using you for a free dinner--have you ever been on an awful date? I'll assume yes. Almost no girl thinks sitting through more than the first one of those just to get another free dinner from someone she doesn't like. Only gold digger types who trade that for status and access to things.  Those types are super crafty and would have likely weeded you out based on the very little I'm reading here. 

I hear some of what you are saying on the timing of dates but I also think you need a reality check, not everyone going to filter their dating choices the same way you do, ie once a week is right time frame for a date. Also if you met on an app or site, likely that she IS dating others as well. that's just reality. What are you doing to make yourself stand out in terms of being your confident best self? 

Another thing is how is that she is using you for free meals reality check...Presumably she has been hungry in the last two weeks, so under your logic she clearly would have made it easy to go on date before this two week intervals. It sounds like it's your insecurity that perhaps she is dating others with the last weekend questions and you aren't first choice insecurities are coming up and then you see paying for a dinner on the first date as a waste of money. I would say that whatever you pay for you should "give freely" and within your budget so you don't feel this way. I would rather have someone take me to McDonald's but with generosity of spirit vs a $500 dinner and be wanting a payoff or be fretting about it behind the scenes. It's really not a good look or good vibe.

IMO, it's way too soon to be worried and concerned or expecting some sort of exclusivity where it's "wrong" that she went on another date potentially though it sort of seems that's how you are calibrated due to how you are feeling now. I mean you might feel a little threatened (understandable) but after only one date it's sort of unreasonable to expect either of you to be exclusive, ie not doing that. I think if you feel this strongly that your after-reaction causes you to mess up subsequent interactions afterward due to overthinking and getting sort of paranoid then you might as well say something up front. IMO not sure how it's going to go over but this isn't much better, ie you think you are hiding your insecurities from her but in effect it's just turning her off and prolonging an outcome where you will not continue to date. 

I know some of this is hard to hear; not what you want to hear and it's easier to hear things that fuel the overthinking thoughts and reinforce your belief system. If you view women sort of as the enemy or "taking' something from you, it's really not going to be successful (same goes for women that think men are just after sex).  I hope you take this to heart and that it helps you even if it is hard to hear. good luck

Edited May 1, 2022 by Versacehottie

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, Helicon5 said:

 I'm done giving, giving and giving and getting little in return. 

You had one date! You're not exclusive. So, of course you are both still talking to, meeting and dating others.

Friendzone? After one date you're overly concerned about that. Were you hoping paying for the first date meant getting lucky right away?

"Giving, giving, giving"? You paid for one first date! Maybe it's time to get some baggage out of the way, including this "women are golddiggers" mindset.

[chillii]

Sorry to say op but it all just sounds pretty flat to me and that she's well aware of that and knows very well it's nothing serious,it's just a bit of a fill in. l'm not sure why your even bothering further.

The rest , won't bother looks like all that's been well worded over.

[FMW]

This seems to be a lot of analyzing and fretting over someone with whom you've had one date.  Including the part of wondering why she isn't available on a particular weekend or on weekend days.  Regardless of what she's doing, she doesn't owe you any explanations.  You're just getting to know each other on a basic level.  

I you're interested then go out on the weekend she said she is free, and go somewhere where you will be free to talk (no loud background conversations or music) and see how you feel after more face to face conversation.  More conversation (not direct questioning) will fill in some of the holes that are always there when we first meet someone.  

If money is an issue, go to a reasonably priced place in case she fails to offer to chip in again.  If she continues to not offer to pay, you'll have to decide if that's a problem for you.  I don't think that issue alone is a gauge of her interest.  As has been noted, people see this issue in different ways. 

If she brings up the famous guy friend again I would see it as a definite red flag.     

At this point try to relax and just approach things with curiosity.  

[poppyfields]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Giving, giving, giving"? You paid for one first date!

My take was he was speaking in general terms based on past experiences where he gave too much and received little back, NOT just this one date with this one woman. 

50 minutes ago, FMW said:

This seems to be a lot of analyzing and fretting over someone with whom you've had one date...

Again, my take is OP is allowing his past negative experiences to cloud and negatively impact this experience.  

It's not uncommon when someone has had a series of bad experiences with users and takers OR who has simply been hurt deeply. 

They carry that hurt, resentment and negativity with them and it impacts all their subsequent relationships.

I really do believe this is what's happening here, at least in part.

This is the part where we advise OP to take a break, stop dating for awhile, spend time focusing on himself, regroup and rejuvenate his spirit. 

When he begins dating again, it will be with a renewed refreshed, more positive attitude.

Just my take and apologies to @Helicon5for referring to you in the third person. 

Good luck.

Edited May 1, 2022 by poppyfields

[Versacehottie]

oh yeah I meant to also say that some women prefer an evening or weekend date as a sign that you are serious about them.  And if she works a lot it may be when she feels like her best and available to feel pretty and more relaxed and go with the flow of the evening. Not sure if it specifically applies to this girl but I would think positively and easier to assume it does and the fact that she said yes as THE sign of what she wants to be doing and where her effort and interest is placed. In theory, she could be just as paranoid as you are and thinking that when you are trying to relagate her to a weekday or daytime date that it means YOU are dating others or not that interested.  Also you mentioned she's into bands (and maybe nightlife IIRC)...IMO people who like those things see a nighttime date as a real date and more to their preference.  Some girls also see a weekend date as more to their preference.

I don't necessarily agree that they should manage their dating lives like this (no weekday or daytime dates) but it doesn't change the fact that some people do. It's their preference too.  Again, in a way, it fits a traditional sort of pattern, which would match with the paying aspect. Also still we are just talking about the FIRST date that she didn't pay. Unless she asked you on the first date, I'd venture to say the majority of women would have done the same, including women who are highly interested in you and know it immediately.  Some of either category might offer to contribute.  Actually a lot of women I know offer to pay when they are NOT interested because they feel guilty and don't want to feel in any way like they owe you something (or that the guy would be bitter and complaining about it), ie pay to get rid of the "issue".

[dramafreezone]

21 hours ago, Helicon5 said:

Exactly what I'm concerned about. I've been making all the effort, which is why I suggested it would be a good thing if she at least offered,  so I know she's bringing something to the table besides charm and good looks. I don't know about every other guy, but I'm done giving, giving and giving and getting little in return. I don't mind paying again. I really don't because I like her, but she has to give me a little more to go on after this date. I can understand not being too close too soon, but I don't want to wait another two weeks before our next date. If that's what she wants to do then I won't bother. Once per week to get to know each other is reasonable. Today feels like our first date again because she's like a stranger. We haven't even spoken on the phone yet. Must I be forward with everything and ask her if she would like to speak on the phone? These are the kind of things I'm referring to. It's easy to just sit back and say okay to everything.

 

(Shrugs)....I dunno man, this is dating.   The more you date, the more bets you're going to place and some just are not going to work out.  It's a numbers game  You could just date less, and only place bets on more promising prospects, but even then nothing is guaranteed. 

You said you've given so much?  Well stop that then, give less instead.  Have you heard that if what you're doing is wrong, then the opposite must be right?  Investing less may help you.

It's only been one date and it sounds like you're over-investing in this woman.  If she doesn't appear overly invested, then you shouldn't either.  You have to pursue *some* because that's just our burden as men, but if she is not participating in the courtship at all then you know it's time to cut your losses.  If you hit the ball over the net, then you have to wait for her to hit it back.  I think it's a bit early to either cut losses or expect a great deal of buy in from her.  Just back off and let the situation breathe, wait for her to hit the ball back.

Edited May 1, 2022 by dramafreezone

[Lisa]

Thread has had a clean up.  Please note that the topic is related to the lady the OP is dating and issues around her paying. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Lisa

[Helicon5]

I just got done with my fourth date with this wonderful lady that's very sweet, shy and wants to take things slow. She really likes me, and I like her equally. Things have been going great. Our last date ended the same way, very well.  I texted her at 4:30 a.m. that I made it home safe and she appreciated that in the morning and reply back, I'm sorry I fell asleep, I'm glad you made it home safe. She didn't stay up to make sure, which is understandable considering the time, but I'm wondering if I should keep doing that this time or be aloof and not text her and make her wonder if I got home safe and see if she texts me when she wakes up later in the morning. I don't want to be inconsiderate or make her worry, but I don't want to be too over caring either, especially if she's not willing to wait up to see if I got home safe regardless of what time it is.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Helicon5

[Wiseman2]

Replying to you in the morning is fine.

[basil67]

Is there any reason she should be lying awake worrying about you?   Were you in an unsafe area or driving through snow or freakish storms...or have mobility issues?   If not, it seems like she sees you as a capable man who doesn't need to be fretted over.

[Helicon5]

41 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Is there any reason she should be lying awake worrying about you?   Were you in an unsafe area or driving through snow or freakish storms...or have mobility issues?   If not, it seems like she sees you as a capable man who doesn't need to be fretted over.

No to all those questions, I suppose. I believe she does see me as very responsible and safe and I let her know that she's always in good hands, so she feels I'm someone who is always in control, and she's right, I am. it was just very early on a Saturday morning when cops could be out pulling people over, crazy drunks out driving that shouldn't be, etc. I do live a half hour away. It's not like I'm right around the corner. Maybe she's just not the worrying type. She was starting to fall asleep on the couch which is why I left. I didn't even realize how late it was. lol. I never expect anyone to stay up for me, although I've to dated some that regardless of how capable they felt I was would force themselves to stay awake anyway until they knew I was home simply out of caring and concern. 

[Helicon5]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Replying to you in the morning is fine.

I don't know if you remember, but on our last date last Friday night I left her place at the same exact time (4:30 am), except I let her know I got home. This time I didn't because she fell asleep last time after I left and she was falling asleep on the couch this time when I left.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Helicon5

[Ami1uwant]

23 minutes ago, Helicon5 said:

I don't know if you remember, but on our last date last Friday night I left her place at the same exact time (4:30 am), except I let her know I got home. This time I didn't because she fell asleep last time after I left and she was falling asleep on the couch this time when I left.

Why didn’t you just stay over for the night?  Bring a small bag of change of clothes and some basic toiletries and leave it in the car.

[glows]

4:30 am is bordering on inconvenience and really a nuisance for a lot of people if you're leaving around that time. Try not to manufacture chaos testing your partner and finding issue as the simple fix is to leave her place earlier being mindful that you need to get back to your place. Or, don't make it a habit leaving her place so late -  a few times might be fine but not a regular occurrence. 

If I were in your shoes, I'd not change letting her know I got home safe either. 

Are both of you underslept and also fatigued the next day? 

[Helicon5]

16 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said:

Why didn’t you just stay over for the night?  Bring a small bag of change of clothes and some basic toiletries and leave it in the car.

It was only our 4th date and she didn't ask