Surviving an affair

[JayChilled]

Need some support. Here’s my story. I’m 48yrs with 3 amazing boys from ages 6 to 12. Been married to my wife for 15.5 years. 10 years ago I started a bout of depression which over time got worse and worse. My peak was late in 2018 that I was on the verge of suicide. Through 2019, I pulled myself out and then in Sept 2020 my world turned upside down when my wife told me she’s been having an affair for the last 2.5 years with her PT. She didn’t have remorse and wanted a divorce. A week later she said she was sorry and wanted to work things out. For 3 months we tried to rebuild having professional couples therapy. Then she contacted her affair partner and for 6 weeks was in touch by phone and told me she loved him and wanted a divorce. We started the process. Then in March 2021 she said I was right and he played her and she was confused as he was a narcissist and abused her for 2.5 years and needed time to think. We went back to counselling and after a few months she said she still loved me and wanted to make things work. Our sex life throughout our marriage was average, me wanting intimacy more than her. We started sex therapy and my wife says she is scarred by my behaviour throughout our marriage around always wanting sex and being pushy especially when I was depressed. In any case, we’ve had a great 6 months, no sex, re connecting. We’ve been away with the kids 3 times and are and have always been compatible. Sex is still an issue. I find it difficult to get aroused, I can’t remove images of her and her AP. It’s killing me and it’s been 18 months. She associates sex with me as the average sex from the past so isn’t aroused either. Both our libidos are sky low. Our sex therapist insists if we follow the sensate programme that we will get through. But my wife doesn’t seem keen. Almost self sabotaging. 
I feel lost. I’m not good at communicating with her and she’s poor with me. We know this is an issue. She’s in touch with a male friend of her AP who is no longer a friend of her AP and is “helping her” get through the narcissist scars. I think he has helped her but told her not to trust him. Since Nov 2021 my wife picked up a bad injury and allergies, most likely from stress. She’s highly allergic to almonds, been in hospital a few times. She’s on crutches from a knee injury that appears to have turned into CRPS, an auto immune disorder. So she’s a mess. And we have 3 very needy boys. 
I just need some helpful guidance and support. 
thanks so much. 
jay

[Wiseman2]

Do both of you work? Do you both have health insurance?

Is seems you would both benefit from complete evaluations of your physical and mental heath and get accurate diagnoses and treatment for those things first. 

For example your suicidal ideation low libido etc. may be due to depression. She may not be interested in sex because of chronic pain.

 It would also help you to ask for a e referral to a qualified therapist, to discuss your own feelings and thoughts privately and confidentially.

[glows]

2 hours ago, JayChilled said:

And we have 3 very needy boys. 
 

The boys need parents so focus on parenting. Is there a reason why they're needy or why do they seem needy to you? Who characterized them as needy? It suggests that they aren't getting the proper support from their parents or at home. They're very young.

The marriage isn't working despite couples' therapy and sex therapy. She has medical issues that need to be looked at and you're struggling with your mental health. If you both decide to stay together work on coparenting. Eventually you both may come to terms with the marriage being over.

Edited April 13, 2022 by glows

[JayChilled]

I work full time. My wife gave up her part time business recently due to the knee injury. I’m on anti depressants but have been over depression for 3 years. The anti depressants are the mildest dose to help me sleep. I’ll be off them soon. We’ve been having professional couples therapy as well as individual. We’re both mentally stable. We’ve been scarred. We have highs and lows but generally happy. The level of affection is normally one sided ie me wanting a hug or kiss. She says she doesn’t deserve me and her infidelity was too severe and is ashamed. We’ve both had EMDR which I think worked.

I don’t think our marriage is over. I know my wife loves me, she shows it not just in words but also actions. She’s just messed up. 
I’m reaching out on this forum because there are so many people who’ve been in worst situations that can offer their wisdom and positivity. I posted on another forum 18 months ago when my wife told me about her affair and the messages were pretty horrific. Everyone said get a divorce and named her apart from one person. That person gave me the inspiration I needed. They said her actions and behaviour were awful, but that doesn’t make her a bad person. If I didn’t get depressed and reject help, she would never have had an affair. I should wake up and show my best version. Learn from the past and be positive. And that person was right. Sure I could have got divorced. But I decided to give our marriage another chance. 
The boys have always been needy. 2 have ADHD. Our marriage has been solid the last 6 months. We’ve connected emotionally again. I don’t expect a quick fix on the intimacy. We were making progress with the sex therapist until my wife’s injury and allergies. 
Hope this gives more context and I appreciate the responses so far. 

[DKT3]

The reason you got responses to divorce is because its "usually" the wise move. Reconciliation after infidelities fail most of the time, and even more often when the wife is unfaithful.  

 

Many people who post on these types of sites have seen this movie. An underemployed WS trying to run off with the AP only to be dumped or realized that they were being played...all of a sudden is hit by a deep love for their Betrayed spouses, yet can't seem to fully engage in the marriage. 

I'll be honest,  from what you've posted it sounds like your wife is more interested in not being divorced and having to go at it alone then she is in actually being married  Reconciliation is very difficult when both fully engage,  I dont think you have that, I think your wife is going through the motions. 

With that being said,  it doesn't mean she can't get there, after a long affair (which sounds very toxic) its going to be difficult for her to grieve that lose and be fully engaged with you. 

Just give it some time, and when you've had enough you will know.

I remember waking up one morning and thinking thats it, I'm done. I was very calm and at peace with the direction.  Thats when you know its over.

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, JayChilled said:

my wife told me she’s been having an affair for the last 2.5 years with her PT. She didn’t have remorse and wanted a divorce.

It is normally the woman who is ready to leave the marriage and divorce when in the affair.

4 hours ago, JayChilled said:

A week later she said she was sorry and wanted to work things out.

This was probably because the OM wasn't keen about getting with someone else's wife on a full time basis.  This is normal too.

4 hours ago, JayChilled said:

Then she contacted her affair partner and for 6 weeks was in touch by phone and told me she loved him and wanted a divorce. We started the process.

So she started up the affair again, not him, and probably tried to convince him to be with her; but it failed once again.

4 hours ago, JayChilled said:

Then in March 2021 she said I was right and he played her and she was confused as he was a narcissist and abused her for 2.5 years and needed time to think. We went back to counselling and after a few months she said she still loved me and wanted to make things work.

Now because he doesn't want her and she finally figured that out she is in a state of confusion, calling him a narcissist and an abuser who she was so in love with she was willing to leave her marriage for him.  She probably found out he was seeing someone else.

Don't settle for being her second choice.  When women are in love with a man we want to be close to his body, we want sex with him.  Your wife seems to be with you out of necessity.

[glows]

2 hours ago, JayChilled said:

I work full time. My wife gave up her part time business recently due to the knee injury. I’m on anti depressants but have been over depression for 3 years. The anti depressants are the mildest dose to help me sleep. I’ll be off them soon. We’ve been having professional couples therapy as well as individual. We’re both mentally stable. We’ve been scarred. We have highs and lows but generally happy. The level of affection is normally one sided ie me wanting a hug or kiss. She says she doesn’t deserve me and her infidelity was too severe and is ashamed. We’ve both had EMDR which I think worked.

I don’t think our marriage is over. I know my wife loves me, she shows it not just in words but also actions. She’s just messed up. 
I’m reaching out on this forum because there are so many people who’ve been in worst situations that can offer their wisdom and positivity. I posted on another forum 18 months ago when my wife told me about her affair and the messages were pretty horrific. Everyone said get a divorce and named her apart from one person. That person gave me the inspiration I needed. They said her actions and behaviour were awful, but that doesn’t make her a bad person. If I didn’t get depressed and reject help, she would never have had an affair. I should wake up and show my best version. Learn from the past and be positive. And that person was right. Sure I could have got divorced. But I decided to give our marriage another chance. 
The boys have always been needy. 2 have ADHD. Our marriage has been solid the last 6 months. We’ve connected emotionally again. I don’t expect a quick fix on the intimacy. We were making progress with the sex therapist until my wife’s injury and allergies. 
Hope this gives more context and I appreciate the responses so far. 

How are you mentally stable when you're disturbed having images with her and her AP and it affects your intimacy? 

I think both of you have lost a lot of what comprises a marriage along with trust and intimacy. Someone else gave you hope to keep going for another 18 months on another forum but yet you're on a forum again trying to look for other signs that you should keep hanging on. You've been your "best version" for the past 18 months and nothing's really changed. The affection is still one sided and the boys are needy. I'd consider this a huge wake up call. If you still struggle with staying positive, do continue on with individual or private counselling. I'm truly sorry this is happening and hope you don't consider staying in the marriage as your only option for fear of being alone. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by glows

[JayChilled]

90% of the time, I’m in a good place in terms of thoughts. Time is healing. The 10% of the time is when I have thoughts of images. I’ve been told by the therapist that this is normal. 
I decided to reach out on this forum the other day because I was having a bad day ie these thoughts were there. For those that have been cheated on, it’s torture. It makes you irrational. I know our marriage is worth fighting for because my wife does things that gives me that energy to get through the tough times. An example, I went away for work for 3 nights and came back and she was glowing to see me and gave me a huge hug and kiss and it was genuine. We both missed each other. That says something. When I’m ok a good place, like today, my head is high and I feel really positive.

I appreciate the responses so far. I can see a lot of wise people and genuine good faith. I’m not looking for an answer or a silver bullet. I’d love to hear of a success story. Someone who can relate to what I am going through and made it. Thanks

[glows]

6 minutes ago, JayChilled said:

An example, I went away for work for 3 nights and came back and she was glowing to see me and gave me a huge hug and kiss and it was genuine. We both missed each other. That says something.

When you both share this tell her how happy it makes you feel and express that with her. For your sake I hope you’re both able to heal forwards in your marriage. 

[ExpatInItaly]

On 4/13/2022 at 6:30 PM, JayChilled said:

She’s in touch with a male friend of her AP who is no longer a friend of her AP and is “helping her” get through the narcissist scars

No, no, no. 

She should not be in touch with any of his people. She is once again looking outside the marriage for solace, which is plain wrong. No wonder the therapy isn't working. She isn't doing what she needs to do to really get things back on track. 

If she refuses to cut contact with this person, then you have your answer. She doesn't really want to save this marriage. She just doesn't want to be alone. 

[Just A Man]

14 hours ago, JayChilled said:

90% of the time, I’m in a good place in terms of thoughts. Time is healing. The 10% of the time is when I have thoughts of images. I’ve been told by the therapist that this is normal. 
I decided to reach out on this forum the other day because I was having a bad day ie these thoughts were there. For those that have been cheated on, it’s torture. It makes you irrational. I know our marriage is worth fighting for because my wife does things that gives me that energy to get through the tough times. An example, I went away for work for 3 nights and came back and she was glowing to see me and gave me a huge hug and kiss and it was genuine. We both missed each other. That says something. When I’m ok a good place, like today, my head is high and I feel really positive.

I appreciate the responses so far. I can see a lot of wise people and genuine good faith. I’m not looking for an answer or a silver bullet. I’d love to hear of a success story. Someone who can relate to what I am going through and made it. Thanks

First I'm going to state that the internet and the people on it can give you opinions.  Even if we were all relationship experts and professionals (which we are not) the advice given would vary, as would your results with the advice.  Only you and your wife know what bonds you have that keep you together and trying to reconcile, we don't.  So take any opinion you want as just that, probably motivated by that person's experience and moral compass.  But that doesn't make them right, none of us are always right.

 

That said, quite a few professional opinions state that guys tend to get more hung up on the physical aspect of the affair.  They want to know details, down to things that most people don't discuss with say a relationship prior to marriage.  But often the physical details are just a distraction to the things that matter most.  Those acts can't be undone, but to some extent they don't matter.  If the other man was some sexual satisfaction god and that was all that mattered to your wife, she probably wouldn't be trying to work things out with you.

Intimacy that leads to sexual desire might be more of the concern.  And even if you are currently struggling with the physical acts due to these images, the desire for both of you still exists, and the intimacy that leads to that desire must exist as well.  And you can build it up to the point that the emotional desire can overcome the physical hurdles.

 

Communication is everything, more properly effective communication.  Let your wife know what things she does that you appreciate.  Without shaming her, let her know that these thoughts of her physical contact with him still make it hard for your to be intimate at times.  Let her know that you do care, and will try to help her as well, and agree that the children are a big part of things.

 

Every situation is different.  Find the strengths and weaknesses within the relationship, and work on both.

[JayChilled]

14 hours ago, Just A Man said:

First I'm going to state that the internet and the people on it can give you opinions.  Even if we were all relationship experts and professionals (which we are not) the advice given would vary, as would your results with the advice.  Only you and your wife know what bonds you have that keep you together and trying to reconcile, we don't.  So take any opinion you want as just that, probably motivated by that person's experience and moral compass.  But that doesn't make them right, none of us are always right.

 

That said, quite a few professional opinions state that guys tend to get more hung up on the physical aspect of the affair.  They want to know details, down to things that most people don't discuss with say a relationship prior to marriage.  But often the physical details are just a distraction to the things that matter most.  Those acts can't be undone, but to some extent they don't matter.  If the other man was some sexual satisfaction god and that was all that mattered to your wife, she probably wouldn't be trying to work things out with you.

Intimacy that leads to sexual desire might be more of the concern.  And even if you are currently struggling with the physical acts due to these images, the desire for both of you still exists, and the intimacy that leads to that desire must exist as well.  And you can build it up to the point that the emotional desire can overcome the physical hurdles.

 

Communication is everything, more properly effective communication.  Let your wife know what things she does that you appreciate.  Without shaming her, let her know that these thoughts of her physical contact with him still make it hard for your to be intimate at times.  Let her know that you do care, and will try to help her as well, and agree that the children are a big part of things.

 

Every situation is different.  Find the strengths and weaknesses within the relationship, and work on both.

You are a very wise, smart person. Your advice is unbiased and very motivational. I don’t doubt my wife and I will work things through. I just can’t deal with the 10% of time my head is cluttered and in a spin. 
Thanks again for your wise words. 

[DKT3]

When there are struggles in life the best advice is usually the advice we disagree with most. 

It's nice and it feel good to have people tell us what we want to hear, but ultimately its a non-factor because its that way of thinking that has usually led to the issue.

I experienced this first hand when I came to this site.  The things that helped most was the things I refused to acknowledge. 

You can only get over these issues when your wife has made you comfortable enough to let them go. She hasn't done that because it doesn't sound like she is fully engaged. This is likely due to her lingering feels for her AP,  and her liking caring for you but not really feeling like you are a romantic partner.  I've seen several lady posters tell you this throughout these thread.

You can cruise in your marriage and never really address this and probably be OK, but do you want OK?

[JayChilled]

On 4/15/2022 at 8:08 PM, DKT3 said:

When there are struggles in life the best advice is usually the advice we disagree with most. 

It's nice and it feel good to have people tell us what we want to hear, but ultimately its a non-factor because its that way of thinking that has usually led to the issue.

I experienced this first hand when I came to this site.  The things that helped most was the things I refused to acknowledge. 

You can only get over these issues when your wife has made you comfortable enough to let them go. She hasn't done that because it doesn't sound like she is fully engaged. This is likely due to her lingering feels for her AP,  and her liking caring for you but not really feeling like you are a romantic partner.  I've seen several lady posters tell you this throughout these thread.

You can cruise in your marriage and never really address this and probably be OK, but do you want OK?

She’s 100% over her AP. She talks about him with hatred and disgust as she “found” him out to be a con artist who played her, on top of the narcissist abuse. It’s been a year since SHE blocked him. I am sure about this. I know her head is messed up. We went to Amsterdam a few weeks ago, without the kids. She wanted intimacy as did I. We tried and it backfired. We tried to have sex, in fact we did but it was awful. When we spoke with our therapist a week later, she said we broke the sensate programme and that’s normal. I can throw in the towel and see where my life goes, dedicate myself to our children and work. Who knows, I can meet that special person. But then again, my wife is that special person. So surely the marriage is worth fighting for? And I know she wants it too but so messed up, she keeps saying she doesn’t deserve me. 

[DKT3]

Her feelings for the AP are there im afraid.  The opposite of love isn't hate its indifference.  Hate is love/caring plus disappointment.

Besides,  that's only part of it. The other part is her not seeing you as a romantic partner.  

Really the reasons behind it are not that important,  the truth is your wife isn't fully engaged.  Maybe she does feel she doesn't deserve you....although that's probably not it that's probably just guilt speaking.  Maybe she feels you will bolt as soon as she engages fully back into the marriage.  

Point is, you're asking the wrong questions.  As I said, once your wife makes you feel comfortable those issues will start to melt away.  She can't make you comfortable if she doesn't engage. But you already know all this, you're just not putting words to it and asking why.

[ExpatInItaly]

11 hours ago, JayChilled said:

She’s 100% over her AP.

No, she really isn't. At all. This is what gives her away: 

11 hours ago, JayChilled said:

She talks about him with hatred and disgust as she “found” him out to be a con artist who played her,

She is angry and emotional enough to be hurt by him. Think of how ridiculous this sounds. He played her? She was a married woman, for heaven's sake. The entitlement and utter lack of insight on her is something else. You are in denial, Jay. Someone who is over their former lover isn't that bothered about them. Yeah, they might recognize that their ex is a tool. but hatred and disgust? That's coming from a very emotional place, from someone who is not indifferent. She is a long way from that. She absolutely still has feelings for him. 

She isn't over him yet and not only that, but she's apparently consoling herself with his former friend. There is no way she can work on your marriage when she's still licking her wounds of her failed relationship with this guy. He's still taking up way too much space in her heart and mind. There's just not enough room in there for you and your marriage. 

My guess is that if this man still wanted her, she would still be with him now. But he didn't want her anymore, or at least not the way she thought, so she came running back to you - but it wasn't for the right reasons. 

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, JayChilled said:

 who played her, on top of the narcissist abuse. She wanted intimacy as did I. We tried and it backfired. she said we broke the sensate programme

But unfortunately, she played along.

Have you considered marriage therapy that focuses on better overall communication rather than strict sexual "rules"?

[JayChilled]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

But unfortunately, she played along.

Have you considered marriage therapy that focuses on better overall communication rather than strict sexual "rules"?

Yes we had this initially. It got us both to a strong place emotionally so then moved to a sex therapist. 

[Just A Man]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:22 AM, JayChilled said:

Yes we had this initially. It got us both to a strong place emotionally so then moved to a sex therapist. 

Then maybe it's time to try something new, and accept that sexual intimacy might take a while before the two of you become completely comfortable with it again.  And you've stated several times that you have dismissed advice to just move on, and that you feel the relationship is worth fighting for.  If you wife is willing to fight for it as well, you can both accept that it might take time to fully heal.  And it will take time.

You did mention that at times your wife felt you were "pushy" about sex when you were depressed.  You need to talk through that, and make her understand that you never intended to make her feel used or awkward about it.  Tell her why you feel the marriage is worth fighting for, and why you can forgive the affair and move on.  But also let her know that to fix things, you need to understand what is wrong and how to help.  And let her know about the 10% of the time you find a hurdle that is still hurtful, but something you are working on.

It's easy to get hung up on the physical, and in reality that is but a small part of things.  The physical is in the past, let it stay there unless it helps you heal.  Denial of the past and acceptance of the past are two differing things, but how we all deal with them might be very individual.