Help - long running doubts in marriage

[mark clemson]

On 4/24/2022 at 5:53 AM, Will am I said:

I knew he was right, so I talked with my wife for two hours in the evening. Obviously she cried because I did drop the bomb. I emphasized how much I would like to move forward as a couple but that I had made up my mind about prefereing alone over lonely. That continuing on the old foot, feeling hurt and lonely so often, was not an option for the rest od my life.

If this means you told her about the affair, then IMO you took a big risk in doing so. So far it seems to have panned out well. But some folks will agree to stay and attempt to reconcile, but hold on to lingering resentment and it continues to gnaw at them until eventually they no longer wish to stay. So "full disclosure" CAN help bring things to a "fuller" resolution, but it CAN also backfire either sooner or sometimes later on with a decision to divorce or a revenge affair or other "payback" occurring years later. IF you think there's a e.g. 50% chance you might leave anyhow due to the current situation, there is also the question of whether it is/was worth putting her through the additional distress on top of everything else.

IMO this is something every WS needs to decide for themselves, based on the specifics of their spouse, personal moral views, and overall situation.

On 4/21/2022 at 4:03 AM, Will am I said:

I think you're close but I see the situation slightly different. She would like a husband and a partner [partner in parenting; to take weight of the children off her shoulders] and some joy and relief. I don't think romance is very high on her list

Question: how can we meet in the middle? Should we try to organize our lives differently to close the gap? Or are there other ways that I don;t currently see. All ideas welcome.

Every woman is a bit different and every couple a bit different in their particular "chemistry". IMO you and she need to be at a point where both of your needs are being met to a reasonable degree. I'm going to guess this means emotional connection and also satisfying sex as part of it on your side, as sex and emotion often go hand in hand. While IMO not every marriage should be saved, it's certainly positive that you both want to "work on" things, and indeed sometimes the key to relationship lasting is the decision by both partners to not jump ship but to work through difficulties together.

I think you should strongly considering hiring a very experienced marriage counselor who genuinely specializes in couple's counseling to help you (both) work through these questions. Life is complicated and a DIY approach may end up being counterproductive. Do look out for things that make you uncomfortable if you hire one as a small, but real, % are weirdos and/or have agendas they may try to push. The solution is to simply drop them and find a better one.

Edited April 25, 2022 by mark clemson

[Will am I]

EA ended.

She took it kindly. Says she doesn't want to interfere with me and my wife. Says that she knew this could happen and reiterates that it's okay. I said again how much I appreciate her as a person and told her that I see her unfold her wings in the most beautiful way and that I expect her to find a great partner that is fully hers. Told her not to settle for less.

This kind of goodbye may sound great, but now I find it confusing. I almost wish we had a big fight so I would be sure it's all over. All this friendlyness and understanding gives me an uncanny feeling that OW doesn't really want to close the door. That she'll be there for me the moment I send a friendly message. Of course it's upto me not to send that message, but now it's 100% on my shoulders to steer clear.

 

Another concern. I have a problem feeling remorse. I know I should not have gotten involved with OW. I know it's painful for my wife. I know it's not giving the proper respect to OW or myself either. Yet at the same time I remember so clearly what happened to my feelings when OW opened herself up to me. How I felt 10 times better all at once. I remember the intimate conversations and how I was able to help OW find self confidence. These memories are recent and emotionally powerful, the central image being two people who make each other feel a lot better about themselves. Right now that image is stronger than the knowledge that EA was a bad thing to do. 

I know I should feel the remorse much more deeply. There's quite a lot left to confess but confession without remorse feels so wrong. Wondering if time will wear off the pleasant feelings faster than it will wear off the knowledge of wrongdoing.

 

[glows]

11 minutes ago, Will am I said:

EA ended.

She took it kindly. Says she doesn't want to interfere with me and my wife. Says that she knew this could happen and reiterates that it's okay. I said again how much I appreciate her as a person and told her that I see her unfold her wings in the most beautiful way and that I expect her to find a great partner that is fully hers. Told her not to settle for less.

This kind of goodbye may sound great, but now I find it confusing. I almost wish we had a big fight so I would be sure it's all over. All this friendlyness and understanding gives me an uncanny feeling that OW doesn't really want to close the door. That she'll be there for me the moment I send a friendly message. Of course it's upto me not to send that message, but now it's 100% on my shoulders to steer clear.

 

Another concern. I have a problem feeling remorse. I know I should not have gotten involved with OW. I know it's painful for my wife. I know it's not giving the proper respect to OW or myself either. Yet at the same time I remember so clearly what happened to my feelings when OW opened herself up to me. How I felt 10 times better all at once. I remember the intimate conversations and how I was able to help OW find self confidence. These memories are recent and emotionally powerful, the central image being two people who make each other feel a lot better about themselves. Right now that image is stronger than the knowledge that EA was a bad thing to do. 

I know I should feel the remorse much more deeply. There's quite a lot left to confess but confession without remorse feels so wrong. Wondering if time will wear off the pleasant feelings faster than it will wear off the knowledge of wrongdoing.

 

Lack of remorse for cheating may be going back to the deep resentment you have for your wife. I think once it crosses the boundaries into an affair, a person changes irreversibly and that person is not the same person again. You may have changed and you've hinted at that change in you. That's why I emphasize how important it is that your wife knows about the affair if you continue to move on or heal in your marriage. Not only are you accepting your wife, you are also asking her to accept you, something you've not been able to ever feel with her? I think you've also been making excuses for the affair for a long time, such that it wasn't physical and only emotional over text or phone. Your wife doesn't know the real you and you've built up barriers around yourself to keep her out. Why is it not surprising that you feel no remorse? The walls are so thick and a barrier preventing any authenticity.

In this process you are also struggling with your marriage and wondering perhaps whether it's something you want so making yourself vulnerable while you don't yet know what you want in your heart is taking a gamble, possibly not one you're willing to take just yet.

You hold the truth close to you without revealing much of yourself because you're also afraid to lose your options. It's about control when you have felt loss of control for so long in your marriage and powerless. Your wife may have no idea about the affair and just how resentful and checked out you are. You've given her a glimpse in your previous conversation but she doesn't know what it drove you to do. I do empathize with you but it's difficult to feel empathy at the same time for a man who has acted upon his frustrations in such a way where it's crossed a point of no return. You've changed after the affair and authenticity is not all there. Offering this as food for thought. 

 

[Will am I]

13 minutes ago, glows said:

Lack of remorse for cheating may be going back to the deep resentment you have for your wife. I think once it crosses the boundaries into an affair, a person changes irreversibly and that person is not the same person again. 

...

You hold the truth close to you without revealing much of yourself because you're also afraid to lose your options. It's about control when you have felt loss of control for so long in your marriage and powerless. Your wife may have no idea about the affair and just how resentful and checked out you are. You've given her a glimpse in your previous conversation but she doesn't know what it drove you to do. I do empathize with you but it's difficult to feel empathy at the same time for a man who has acted upon his frustrations in such a way where it's crossed a point of no return. You've changed after the affair and authenticity is not all there. Offering this as food for thought. 

Losing your options is never a nice experience.

On the other hand, if my wife wants out, I know it's better to let her go. As devastating as it may feel. I've made the decision against continuing on the old foot.

Here's my biggest fear. Knowing my wife a little bit, the chance is that she will (at least verbally) forgive me and want to stay in the marriage. After all, ecomomically dependent, house, kids, ... But she might hold the affair against me in the future and it might stand between us and prevent us from having the good marriage that I want. If that is going to happen I would prefer the marriage to end now.

 

[vla1120]

I was also going to suggest individual therapy for you, since you have been feeling lonely in your marriage for some years. That doesn't mean I don't think your wife plays a role in the success or failure of your marriage, too. It sounds like the two of you are not on the same page in your marriage. But those talks you've been having with your wife are a big step in the right direction. It's understandable that, after a long day of work, you would like to come home and relax with your wife. It is also understandable that, being a SAHM, your wife would like to get out of the house and do something or socialize. That doesn't mean you're incompatible and your marriage is not going to work. It just means the two of you need to get on the same page and meet somewhere in the middle. I'd say keep the communication going. Also, just the fact that you have a special needs child to take care of is an extra stressor on your marriage. Maybe there is a support group the two of you could join in your area to talk to other parents. 

Do you know your individual love languages? Maybe you could sit together and take the love language quiz to have a better understanding of how to best communicate with one another on the level of your individual love languages. 

Finally, it is good that you put an end to the EA. Don't beat yourself up about it. The EA brought things to the surface that made you realize your marriage needs some attention and you handled it the right way, by deciding to end the EA and work on your marriage.

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, Will am I said:

 Knowing my wife a little bit, the chance is that she will (at least verbally) forgive me and want to stay in the marriage. After all, ecomomically dependent, house, kids, ... But she might hold the affair against me in the future and it might stand between us and prevent us from having the good marriage that I want. If that is going to happen I would prefer the marriage to end now.

There are those in the world who (genuinely) "can't live with" not telling their spouse about an affair. The guilt, etc, eats them up. There are ALSO those who can live with, and even thrive and have a thriving marriage and great life without disclosing.

I think "authenticity" is probably somewhat overrated, in that most marriages are not completely honest - there are always things that aren't worth discussing vs the problems bringing them up might cause. Indeed, good marriages will strike a balance between closeness/intimacy and "giving the other person their space" and moderating our own authenticity is a big part of that. Our spouse simply doesn't need to know every last thing in our lives.

There are those who could never feel "authentic enough" in the marriage without disclosing an affair, even an EA, and that is completely legitimate. There ALSO seem to be plenty of folks who are just fine with that, and probably feel they ARE being "authentic enough, " and indeed can have a perfectly happy marriage, without disclosing. In addition to bad marriages, there seem to be plenty of marriages that go along just fine UNTIL a past and now over affair is disclosed.

All I'm saying is, make the choice that you genuinely feel is right for you and your situation. Don't let anyone dangle the carrot of a better marriage in front of you and claim that disclosure is the only way to get there. That might in fact be true for some folks, but it certainly doesn't seem to be the case for everyone.

Edited April 26, 2022 by mark clemson

[glows]

2 hours ago, Will am I said:

Losing your options is never a nice experience.

On the other hand, if my wife wants out, I know it's better to let her go. As devastating as it may feel. I've made the decision against continuing on the old foot.

Here's my biggest fear. Knowing my wife a little bit, the chance is that she will (at least verbally) forgive me and want to stay in the marriage. After all, ecomomically dependent, house, kids, ... But she might hold the affair against me in the future and it might stand between us and prevent us from having the good marriage that I want. If that is going to happen I would prefer the marriage to end now.

It all depends on whether you can look your wife in the eye knowing that you did have an emotional affair or are dishonest with her at any point in your marriage. It's not for anyone else to judge your marriage as good or bad.

One would argue that it's never actually been good and the likelihood of it ever being "good" according to any standard you may have is not possible given the number of times the truth has been omitted or how much you fear or resent living with her. What you may be settling for is tolerating each other and appreciating one another in the remaining years that you have left but never actually being honest or open about your real selves or what want out of one another. 

I'm sure a great number of people are able to live indefinitely without disclosing important parts of the marriage, namely being honest or remaining loyal to your vows (whatever those might mean to a couple). You have to decide what you want in your marriage and what you're able to live with. Ethically, I think your wife ought to know and it's not for you to decide solely or control your marriage the way you want to control it without full disclosure. In my opinion at least this is the epitome of dishonesty. A lot of spouses would rather choose to live with that in a spouse than break up a home or divorce, bearing in mind children or other challenges. 

Regardless of what you choose, it may be inevitable that your affair has changed you to the point where working on the marriage is no longer an option. That's something I threw out in an earlier post. It's all for you to decide but I wouldn't take too long as other lives hang in the balance and all of them have no clue about who you really are or what you did getting involved in with the EA.

Edited April 26, 2022 by glows

[Will am I]

12 hours ago, glows said:

Regardless of what you choose, it may be inevitable that your affair has changed you to the point where working on the marriage is no longer an option. 

This part is a bit hard for me to wrap my head around.

I understand that meeting and subsequently falling in love with OW has changed something. It’s shown me that I can feel much more alive than I felt before. Which contributes to my conscious decision that I don’t want to back to the old situation, even though I would very much for my wife to be with me in a new and better situation.

What I don’t see right now, is how EA would have changed me. I don’t feel like a different person now. Please explain in what dimension you see the possible change?

Thank you again to all who have shared their thoughts and offered my valuable perspectives. The consencus of most posts is not very hopeful, though some are.

Altogether your posts provide me with ongoing food for thought and make a great difference in my ability to think straight. In retrospect it’s alarming how quickly that clarity was gone when OW came into the picture. 

[glows]

8 hours ago, Will am I said:

This part is a bit hard for me to wrap my head around.

I understand that meeting and subsequently falling in love with OW has changed something. It’s shown me that I can feel much more alive than I felt before. Which contributes to my conscious decision that I don’t want to back to the old situation, even though I would very much for my wife to be with me in a new and better situation.

What I don’t see right now, is how EA would have changed me. I don’t feel like a different person now. Please explain in what dimension you see the possible change?

I probably don't ascribe to the notion that an EA helps a person feel more alive without full disclosure. It's still too rooted in fantasy without repercussions and fantasy without accountability. 

Rather, it may expose a lot of inadequacies about a current relationship and the married individual begins to compare his feelings for the other man or woman to his marriage or his feelings towards his wife. She needs to live up to what another woman has presented to you, an ideal that she has no clue about. Your wife in your situation is oblivious to the kinds of thoughts being projected onto her and not being seen as a person but what she ought to be in your eyes, comparable to what was shared with an affair partner. Whether this is true or not is for the both of you to uncover later on down the line.

It's possible that you may be living off the high of the affair still and looking at your marriage through rose-coloured lenses, hopeful that it should change but not sure how to reach that positive change while thinking of someone else. Do you see the fallacy here or break in logic? I'm not quite sure what exactly you hope for in your wife because you were just mentioning earlier how you feel little remorse and demonstrated great caring for the OW without sharing the same feelings for your wife.

I'm a realist and I don't believe that people grow without being accountable for their actions. What you found wasn't intentional with the EA but it did open a new way of thinking for you. It's difficult to imagine that a person isn't changed from any of that. I think you may show it more in the way you think of the OW versus the way you expect a great deal from your wife. I think it's ironic that the woman you choose to be with doesn't know fully what you want out of her because she's never met the OW nor does she know who you may be comparing her to. 

If you feel you can take the lessons from the EA and develop a more functional and happy, thriving marriage, that should be the end goal and I hope that the two of you work on that and are able to achieve that peace, harmony, contentment. I don't think my conscience would allow me to do that. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by glows

[Weezy1973]

8 hours ago, Will am I said:

I understand that meeting and subsequently falling in love with OW has changed something. It’s shown me that I can feel much more alive than I felt before.

The OW making you feel more alive can be discounted entirely. First and foremost it was a distraction from your unhappy marriage. But also it was early stage infatuation / lust / limerance which shoots all sorts of feel good chemicals through your brain. So don’t take any of those feelings as meaningful.

 

I’m curious though, what does a “good marriage” look like on your eyes? What specifically changes? 

[Will am I]

On 4/27/2022 at 3:36 PM, glows said:

I probably don't ascribe to the notion that an EA helps a person feel more alive without full disclosure. It's still too rooted in fantasy without repercussions and fantasy without accountability. 

Rather, it may expose a lot of inadequacies about a current relationship and the married individual begins to compare his feelings for the other man or woman to his marriage or his feelings towards his wife. She needs to live up to what another woman has presented to you, an ideal that she has no clue about. Your wife in your situation is oblivious to the kinds of thoughts being projected onto her and not being seen as a person but what she ought to be in your eyes, comparable to what was shared with an affair partner. Whether this is true or not is for the both of you to uncover later on down the line.

It's possible that you may be living off the high of the affair still and looking at your marriage through rose-coloured lenses, hopeful that it should change but not sure how to reach that positive change while thinking of someone else. Do you see the fallacy here or break in logic? I'm not quite sure what exactly you hope for in your wife because you were just mentioning earlier how you feel little remorse and demonstrated great caring for the OW without sharing the same feelings for your wife.

I'm a realist and I don't believe that people grow without being accountable for their actions. What you found wasn't intentional with the EA but it did open a new way of thinking for you. It's difficult to imagine that a person isn't changed from any of that. I think you may show it more in the way you think of the OW versus the way you expect a great deal from your wife. I think it's ironic that the woman you choose to be with doesn't know fully what you want out of her because she's never met the OW nor does she know who you may be comparing her to. 

If you feel you can take the lessons from the EA and develop a more functional and happy, thriving marriage, that should be the end goal and I hope that the two of you work on that and are able to achieve that peace, harmony, contentment. I don't think my conscience would allow me to do that. 

 

On 4/27/2022 at 4:03 PM, Weezy1973 said:

The OW making you feel more alive can be discounted entirely. First and foremost it was a distraction from your unhappy marriage. But also it was early stage infatuation / lust / limerance which shoots all sorts of feel good chemicals through your brain. So don’t take any of those feelings as meaningful.

 

You both raise a similar point about "feeling alive" and you are both right to do so. I think when I said it, I meant two different levels:

On the most shallow level, "I feel alive". Winter turning into spring. Colors, smells, a new sense of excitement and a refound will to live.

I guess most of that attributes to hormones and feelings of infatuation, as both of you have noticed. It's temporary and it is already starting to fade. You may also state that it is a problematic branch because it springs from the wrong root.

 

The second level is where it adds to my realization that I should go about my life and my marriage in a much more purposeful and deliberate manner. Instead of settling for how things are and settling into that situation one day at the time, this is asking me to stand up and set my own goals. Living (as opposed to surviving) respects the notion that our life on earth is temporary and hence that it deserves our best effort and not just settling into the situation at hand out of fear or convenience. This part presents a T-junction. It will either be the greatest blessing for my marriage or it will be the end of it.

 

I am now working out two lists. One is my "sorry" list. These are the things I did and now regret over the course of my relationship with my wife. I should be able to iterate over these items and offer my heartfelt apologies to her (which I indeed plan on doing).

The other list is my "resentment" list. The list of things where I feel I have been mistreated by my wife and that make me feel angry or sad. A major part of my recent mental journey has been in discovering that I carry much more resentment around than I thought. I need to build that list and then then clear it out. Some of the items, I can probably decide to look at them in the pricvacy of my own mind and then speak forgiveness. For the others, I will need to speak to my wife, explain that this is hurting me, speak forgiveness but also expect change.

Now this is all "me". Of course I'm open to confrontation with my wife's resentment list too. I only wish she is able to give my that list so we can clear it. I wouldn't like to be in a long period of "trickle truthing" where another old piece of resentment pops up every now and then and the list is never cleared.

The time to approach the confrontation is the moment that the EA appears 100% on my "sorry" list. Right now my feelings on the matter are still too mixed. I totally recognize I shouldn't have done it but I have too many positive feelings too.

 

On 4/27/2022 at 4:03 PM, Weezy1973 said:

I’m curious though, what does a “good marriage” look like on your eyes? What specifically changes? 

 

What changes is that we would from both sides commit to try and make our spouse happy. No holding back, no second thoughts. 

With holding back I mean the following pattern: "if I give you <fill in the blanks>, then maybe you will expect more long these lines. i don't want to commit so i'd better not"

It's a pattern that I recognize on both ends of our marriage. I think we were at some point in time both too insecure and are now both too hurt to fully commit.

 

This is also my red line. If I don't see the marriage developing into a full commitment from both sides, I will end it. I owe it to myself not to spend the rest of my life in a marriage with only partial commitment.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

What changes is that we would from both sides commit to try and make our spouse happy. No holding back, no second thoughts. 

I think you have to challenge this thought. Your wife isn’t responsible for your happiness. And you’re not responsible for hers either. Happiness comes from within. This might seem like a foreign concept considering your history of depression. 
 

That being said, our spouses can make us decidedly unhappy. For example when your wife finds out about your affair I suspect she will be very unhappy (amongst other emotions) and that was caused directly by your actions. 

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

With holding back I mean the following pattern: "if I give you <fill in the blanks>, then maybe you will expect more long these lines. i don't want to commit so i'd better not"

Can you give some specific examples in your marriage where this applies? Just really what this would actually look like? More date nights? More sex? You committing to doing more chores around the house and spending less time at work? Specific complaints are generally more helpful than broad criticisms.

[Will am I]

Thank you once again for your time and attention.

I recognize what you say about happiness. That it comes from within and that you can only assume responsibility for your own happiness.

I think my words came out wrong where I wrote "try and make ... happy". Obviously you can't pour happiness into a person like you pour fuel into your car. What I meant was: being dedicated to behavior that the supports, builds up and pleases our OH". 

 

About holding back. It's a common pattern from both ends in our marriage. Making it concrete will be very personal and intimate, 

 

A not too intimate example. My wife is a much bigger spender than I am. She loves to burn money on transient things like holiday trips. In the past Ive noticed that there is hardly a limit, I believe she would prefer a weekend trip pretty much every weekend.

When she asks, I sometimes hold back. In my head: give in this time and you won't take away the desire for more. Actually you'd only raise the expectations for more. 

Underlying: despite giving her ample access, I don't really trust her with money. I think she would happily spend us into debt. Either because that's a strange sort of comfort zone (she comes from a family that was always in money trouble). Or because it's too hard for her to plan ahead. I see a big tax payment due in about 6 months whereas she has her eye on all the nice things the money could buy before that moment.

 

There are more examples from the both sides. She might hold back in the bedroom to prevent me from expecting more later. 

[vla1120]

6 hours ago, Will am I said:

What changes is that we would from both sides commit to try and make our spouse happy. No holding back, no second thoughts. 

With holding back I mean the following pattern: "if I give you <fill in the blanks>, then maybe you will expect more long these lines. i don't want to commit so i'd better not"

It's a pattern that I recognize on both ends of our marriage. I think we were at some point in time both too insecure and are now both too hurt to fully commit.

 

This is also my red line. If I don't see the marriage developing into a full commitment from both sides, I will end it. I owe it to myself not to spend the rest of my life in a marriage with only partial commitment.

In this scenario, I'm torn about the situation concerning whether or not to reveal the EA. On one hand, I don't think it is always necessary to reveal an affair to a spouse if all it will do is cause pain, especially if you are willing to work on the marriage. On the other hand, you talk about a "full commitment" from both sides. But she is not aware of your EA and yet you are expecting a full commitment from her when she doesn't have the full story. I feel a bit like, since you are the one who wandered emotionally outside the marriage, you should expect more of a commitment to save the marriage from yourself, if you decide not to reveal the EA. 

You also talk about the "sorry" list and the "resentment" list. These shouldn't be ongoing lists. These issues should be addressed immediately in a relationship, negating the need for such "lists". Otherwise, by you carrying around resentment based on her past transgressions, again, she is not aware unless you tell her, so she is dealing only with what she knows and would probably be blindsided by the resentment you carry from these past transgressions of hers. Communication (constant and immediate) is key. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by vla1120

[Will am I]

I hear you. I’m so hung about what extent of EA I should reveal. I think I want to go all in, but at the same time fear about causing unnecessary damage to my wife’s feelings. I want to reveal all that’s relevant.

I believe some details could be painful but irrelevant, am inclined to leave those out. But then I don’t think I am in a position to judge what is relevant. I think I need to leave that question to my wife.

 

About the lists: not intended for ongoing use, but as a way to clear out the old cabinets once and for all.

 

 

[heartwhole2]

On 4/29/2022 at 5:42 PM, Will am I said:

I hear you. I’m so hung about what extent of EA I should reveal. I think I want to go all in, but at the same time fear about causing unnecessary damage to my wife’s feelings. I want to reveal all that’s relevant.

I believe some details could be painful but irrelevant, am inclined to leave those out. But then I don’t think I am in a position to judge what is relevant. I think I need to leave that question to my wife.

 

About the lists: not intended for ongoing use, but as a way to clear out the old cabinets once and for all.

 

 

I'm glad you recognize this. Affairs are had from atop a mountain of entitlement. And I really strongly disagree with the advice to consider whether you'll have a bitter and resentful wife on your hands as a reason to conceal. This is for several reasons:

• Who is more likely to betray again . . . someone who confessed it all, or someone who withheld information?
• Affairs are an entitled choice to make a monogamous relationship non-monogamous without your partner's knowledge or consent. Trying to minimize or whitewash that to in order to escape the consequences of your choices is just doubling down on that entitlement . . . will this make you seem like an attractive or safe bet for reconciliation?
• From personal experience, I can tell you that your partner trying to omit, deflect, and minimize when you have already suffered the indignity of being cheated on and are graciously giving them a second chance often feels worse -- more cowardly, more purposeful, more disrespectful -- than the initial decision to cheat.

You get the point. These are all variations on the same theme . . . someone withholding reality from you because they've decided they know better than you do what you need to know. Well, they're the person who cheated on us, so forgive us if we're not clamoring to trust their judgment.

[Will am I]

I have chosen full disclosure. I told what happened from my perspective of things and to give any details as she asks.

My wife has not inquired about too many details (yet), but the choice is hers.

After the initial shock, she seems to be bouncing between a strong desire to mend things for the future and a feeling of being deeply hurt and humiliated.

I don’t know yet where this will end. There can be two outcomes. Either we commit to eachother, fix our old  issues and come out stronger and happier than before.

Or my wife won’t step over her hurt feelings and won’t trust me and the marriage will suck and we will end it (if she won’t, I will).

Right now I am hopeful. We speak more open and intimately than before, I am more purposeful in my communication, it seems she is too. And sex, though infrequent, is actually quite hot.

[Will am I]

An update.

My marriage seems to be surviving after the EA, even thriving. I can't read my wife's mind, but from my perspective it seems as if she decided that she's not ready to let go just yet. She seems motivated to keep me engaged in the relationship like never before. We talk more than we used to, conversations are more uninhibited and open, and the chemistry seems a lot stronger. Even sex is better than before (something I had not expected so short after me confessing to the EA, I was anticipating a period with very limited physical intimacy. I've read the term "hysterical bonding" and maybe that applies to us). 

If I oversee the current situation and imagine the marriage had always been like this, I don't think I would have had my doubts in the first place. This is how I would have wanted my marriage.

 

Yet, I find myself struggling with dark feelings again over the last few days. This is taking me by surprise, because it contrasts so much with what I wrote just before. I seem to have gotten what I wanted, but the darkness is undeniably here. Right now I feel a strong sense of loneliness, I repeatedly have these negative thoughts about marriage and future that seem to force themselves into my mind, I find myself gravitating towards divorced friends and colleagues. And songs like "Not as we" just filled up my Spotify favourites.

 

I'm as confused as ever. What the **** is this?

What it feels like to me: my marriage is holding up, and now I realize that I would have preferered if it fell apart? The thought of divorce gives me strong ambivalent feelings of pain and relief. 

Or is this just the more superficial emotions and hormones caused by me falling out of love with OW? Because that is also going on. After the EA ended, OW was still on my mind a lot and my feelings for her were sweet as ever. Now these feelings are fading and I think I feel the loneliness associated with that.

I don't feel I can currently trust my feelings. Your perspectives are welcome.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

Sorry this is happening. Your wife may be trying harder, but that still may not compensate for not being happily married.

[Will am I]

35 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. Your wife may be trying harder, but that still may not compensate for not being happily married.

That's one of the perspectives: me realizing that trying harder will always be temporary and temporary changes won't be enough to make me happy in the long run.

The other perspective is that I can't trust my emotions right now. I do feel this cold empty space in my heart where OW used to be. Maybe these feelings are impairing my judgement.

 

When I was falling in love with OW, my head got cloudy. Now that I'm falling out of love it's a bit similar, my emotional compass is way off again.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Will am I

[vla1120]

I wonder if the loneliness you are feeling could actually be depression. Have you talked to a therapist yet? I think it would be worth exploring that possibility. It's also possible that your renewed sex life with your wife could be hysterical bonding. I think only time will tell.

It is very good that the two of you are communicating more, that is key. Hopefully, you and your wife can meet somewhere in the middle by her committing to spending quality time with you at home, and you committing to taking her out once in awhile. 

I hope the two of you keep those lines of communication open. No topic is out of bounds. If each of you move forward with an open mind and an open heart, I have much hope for your marriage. I will always vote to keep a marriage intact, when possible. Best of luck to you. 

[Will am I]

It doesn't feel like depression. In my experience depression manifests itself not so much as an emotional state but more as a state of apathy and a desire to not be a part of life anymore. 

Nevertheless this is a new angle to look at. Not being able to clearly see or fully appreciate the options in life can indeed relate to depression and it can explain why I am feeling as I am feeling (sad over the "lost" affair, while not enthousiastic over the revived marriage).

I terms of behavior patterns in out marriage. I am content and I think she is too. We give each other much more attention. I picked up a few extra household tasks (specifically without her asking me to do so). We spend time out of the house without children about weekly at the moment. I think this will indeed work out.

 

So the "externals" (behaviours and relationship dynamics) are pretty good. My struggle is very much an internal one. I understand how I should be happy but don't feel happy. Which prompts these ugly thoughts like "maybe I was wrong when I thought I wanted to revive the marriage". Sometimes I feel like just dropping the effort and going for the divorce option. But that option doesn't get my enthusiasm either. I wonder where my thoughts and feelings are on the spectrum of other men who have filed for divorce (were they in a similar state or did they have very different triggers?).

And I don't think I can currently trust my emotions. Feeling sad and lonely could be a temporary effect of breaking the EA (I was truly deeply in love, more than I realized). Realizing that my emotions are not stable is important to me because it helps me will surpress action on emotion.

 

 

 

[Will am I]

I want to share an update for the readers' encouragement.

Both my wife and I are committed to making our marriage work. The spark is still there and she has chosen to forgive me for drifting off into the EA. To which I must add that choosing to forgive is only the first step in a longer process. It's a conscious choice for a direction which leads into a path of sharing feelings and building understanding. A start and not and end.

 

My wife indicates that the most important consideration for her was the fact that I turned away from the affair relatively quickly and on my own initiative (without getting caught first). It seems this ability to man up and turn back has kept at least a part of the love and trust intact.

I think this is an important lesson for men who are currently in affairs. If you want to remain with your life partner, ending the affair in your own initiative could make all the difference in the world. (and if you don't want to stay with your life partner, step back and evaluate both relationships if they are what you really want).

 

On the other hand, my wife finds the age gap between OW and me difficult to understand and also painful. 

My wife's main question on the matter is what I was thinking to get involved with a woman less then 10 years older than our daughter. Which is a very logical and valid question, in comparison my answer (I didn't set out to get involved with her, it developed from benign contact) sounds weak and not very convincing. But it's the truth and I don't have a better answer there. 

 

EA and OW are not a big theme in our conversations. The topic surfaces every now and then, but we mostly speak of ourselves and our plans and goals as individuals and as a couple. Generally we speak much more, longer, deeper, more intimately than we did before. This is a big change for us. 

I notice that having a long and intimate conversation can be a turn-on for us both. From my personal perspective: it makes me feel more connected to my wife and strengthens my sense of belonging. I figure my wife would say something similar but I can't speak for her. More than once it has evolved into unplanned sex. Foreplay? Talk.

 

We've also committed to spending more time together as a couple. My wife has started taking initiative in these matters. I think she recognizes that the soil in which my infidelity developed as a marriage barren of meaningful conversation and one on one attention between the spouses. I greatly appreciate these initiatives. One time we only went out for ice cream but the fact that she arranged it meant so much to me.

 

I am slowly starting to believe we will come out stronger. It's a rocky road but it seems possible.

 

[vla1120]

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

I am slowly starting to believe we will come out stronger. It's a rocky road but it seems possible.

 

This is fantastic news! It reminds me of that analogy - the grass isn't always greener on the other side, the grass is greenest where it is watered and carefully tended. Congratulations. I am always a big fan of keeping a marriage intact. Thank you for proving it is possible, with two willing and engaged parties. Best of luck to you both!

[Will am I]

Thank you so much!

I am grateful to be with my wife and I am grateful that we stopped taking each other for granted (while in the mean time feeling lonely and disconnected for so long).

I am a bit sad about the years we spent in the rut like that, slowly losing our connection. And about the fact that I got as far as to connect on a very inappropriate and intimate level with OW, even when knowing full well whe would never be my wife. I believe neither of those things should have happened. But they did, no turning that back. The road forward looks hopeful and promising again.