Help - long running doubts in marriage

[heartwhole2]

Yes, well exactly, some relationships we need to maintain on some level (professional, extended family) but we determine they are people we can't share our true selves with. But deep and abiding relationships should involve sharing our true self and wanting to know the other person's as well.

[pepperbird2]

On 7/28/2022 at 2:35 PM, heartwhole2 said:

Yes, well exactly, some relationships we need to maintain on some level (professional, extended family) but we determine they are people we can't share our true selves with. But deep and abiding relationships should involve sharing our true self and wanting to know the other person's as well.

Could be there's even some genetics at work when it comes to being conflict avoidant. 

Being adopted, I had genetic testing done. One  of the SNPs I have apparently codes for calmness, being optimistic and handling stress well. Unfortunately, that can also translate to being conflict avoidant.
 

[Will am I]

14 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

Could be there's even some genetics at work when it comes to being conflict avoidant. 

Being adopted, I had genetic testing done. One  of the SNPs I have apparently codes for calmness, being optimistic and handling stress well. Unfortunately, that can also translate to being conflict avoidant.
 

I haven’t heard of a genetic link, but character traits definitely seem to run in families.

I feel I have a very similar character to my maternal grandfather. 

 

On the original subject, we’re doing quite good. I invested in a very nice and romantic date night recently and we had lots of fun and were very much in love. Hadn’t felt that way in years.

Currently on a holiday, looking forward to resume couples counseling after we’re home.

[basil67]

Great to hear that things are going well for both of you 

[Wiseman2]

On 8/4/2022 at 3:38 AM, Will am I said:

Currently on a holiday, looking forward to resume couples counseling after we’re home.

That's good. Make sure you're not shifting ways to avoid your wife and emotional intimacy by finding other women to schmooze and chat up.

While the online mistress may be gone, if you are still schmoozing up random women, it's still a way to avoid your marriage and the responsibilities and realities of it.

You may be shifting it to a less ominous situation, but flirting and schmoozing with others even anonymously, still avoids your marriage.

[Will am I]

Thanks for looking out for me. No inappropriate contact with any women

Actually the counseling that I wrote about is resuming right about now.

Confusing thoughts: if my marriage had always been as enjoyable as is has been lately, I would have never sought conseling. 

But: I want to continue. I believe that our counselor can help us unlock so much more in our marriage. Excited!

And: counseling is bringing up old pain. How come I never realized how much I miss my parents in all these years?

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Will am I said:

But: I want to continue. I believe that our counselor can help us unlock so much more in our marriage. Excited!

And: counseling is bringing up old pain. How come I never realized how much I miss my parents in all these years?

Counseling can bring stuff up, however make sure anxiety or depression is not magnifying things long ago and unchangeable. You may realize now just how lonely your marriage really is/was.

That's ok, but skip talking/flirting with women to fill that time/void. Get involved in groups and clubs, sports and fitness, take classes and courses, volunteer. Find outlets and esteem building things that do not involve cooing and flirting.

[Will am I]

Another update, 14 days later.

Though I’m generally very optimistic about the marriage, there are still some days that my heart is all over the place. On those days I often feel sad and not very confident either. I might think about the marriage and experience words like “I don’t feel it”. Or I’d feel some sadness about missing xOW. Underneath: there is a force inside that longs to be independent, alone even.

And the melancholy circles back to missing my parents surprisingly often. I will bring that up on the next counseling session, I think I may have taken a few shortcuts in the grieving process when they passed away.

Though I am truly committed to counseling and trying to make the marriage work, it occurs to me that the commitment is really about trying. And trying always without obligation. The next level of commitment should probably not aim the process of improvement but the marriage itself. More permanent, deeper. I’ll bring that up with the counselor too.

Thanks go out to the contributors on this forum. You have helped so much to shape my thoughts and challenge my motives.

 

[Weezy1973]

On 9/10/2022 at 2:21 AM, Will am I said:

Underneath: there is a force inside that longs to be independent, alone even.
 

I don't think this is super uncommon. For every choice we make in life, there are options we didn't take. And sometimes "grass is greener" syndrome kicks in. There are definitely a lot of advantages to being alone, mostly selfish (not in a bad way). You can do whatever you want, whenever you want and are free to move your life in any direction you choose. The constraints of marriage and kids are real, and at times can feel like a burden. But that is just the reality of life, our thoughts go to various things for whatever reason, but there really isn't any meaning to it. There isn't a magical "force" inside you. It's just thoughts that pass through your brain.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Weezy1973

[BrinnM]

On 9/10/2022 at 5:21 AM, Will am I said:

Underneath: there is a force inside that longs to be independent, alone even.

I’ve literally had that desire in every single relationship I’ve ever been in. Always tried to hang in there, though, hoping the feeling will go away if I’m REALLY happy with my partner at some point. It didn’t go away, although many (not all!) of my RLs were really good, with great men. I don’t think it’s abnormal, especially if being in relationships is all you know. Independence is my happy place. I want to be able to be alone, with nobody talking to me, whenever I need and want to; and I want to take a plane trip at short notice whenever I want to, and likewise I want to pick up the phone and make plans with family or friends whenever I want to. Maybe that’s a desire you have as well. Not everybody is a relationship person. Many are happier single. That doesn’t mean we’re antisocial at all, but it means we cherish our solitude. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by BrinnM

[Alpacalia]

It's wonderful to see you so devoted to your marriage, Will am I.

As to your point about staying together out of obligation, that's a wonderful point to mention, since it's not uncommon for couples to stay together out of obligation. A life lived for duty, obligation, fear of judgment, is not an authentic life, it is not a life lived 'freely,' and it is a life lived without self-expression.  

There is something good about being able to sit down with your own mind, your own feelings, and get closer to the essence of who you are, and what is the true message being conveyed by this inner voice?

The trial, the suffering, and the pain, at times, are needed to knock us down so that we can rise again in our new found identity once we have surrendered to them and once we have done so, we are able to rise again.

You are on the right track. I wish you continued success. 

 

[Will am I]

Thank you @Weezy1973, @BrinnM and @Alpacalia

 

I was reminded of these words:

On 7/18/2022 at 5:01 AM, heartwhole2 said:

The truth is that you may simply not want to be married.

These words have resonated since I read them. My version of the truth is that I want to have my cake and eat it. Part of me really wants to be the family man. Having a wife and children is a profound blessing. It gives me a sense of fulfilment, purpose and lets me experience more and deeper emotions than I might allow in if I were single. 

Another part of me will always be the wandering spirit. That's the part that does not want to ride straight home after work, but to have some clothes and my Kindle in my backpack and just head my motorcycle the other way and walk on the beach around sunset, have dinner in a restaurant, stay in a hotel room, read my literature and ride home the next day.

Knowing that a family does not come with a "pause" button and requires real commitment, knowing that I have to choose, I'd pick my family life over my freedom. And I really support that choice. This choice is the commitment that I am actively working on this year.

I do wonder: to what extent is my wandering spirit shaped by younger years? Is this just who I am as a person? Or is it also the result of becoming an orphan relatively young? I've been the oldest generation in my family ever since my grandfather passed away, I was 32 at the time. An attribute that feels unnatural. I will discuss this with the counselor. I sense that I am still a little bit uneasy about my position, I'm not really in harmony yet.

 

[Weezy1973]

7 hours ago, Will am I said:

I do wonder: to what extent is my wandering spirit shaped by younger years? Is this just who I am as a person? Or is it also the result of becoming an orphan relatively young?

I think a lot of people are like this.   Again by definition marriage is going to be about compromise. And having kids is even more compromising. You aren’t free to pursue whatever you want. I suspect few people are perfectly content in their marriage, but even fewer are content being alone. Suicides, depression etc. all much more common in singles. But my belief is that is just life. You kind of have to accept it’s not going to be perfect as perfect is just a concept in your mind. 
 

But it’s not like you described traveling to another country and living a life of solitude. You described a beach, sunset, hotel room and reading. This can easily be accomplished while married.  My brother in law, once a year takes a weekend away from his family. Rides his motorcycle and goes camping by himself. It can be done.

7 hours ago, Will am I said:

I sense that I am still a little bit uneasy about my position, I'm not really in harmony yet.

And what would you feel if you were in “harmony”. It’s kind of an ambiguous term. What does it mean to you. I’m a firm believer that our thoughts and feelings are transitory and not really all that important in the grand scheme of things. It’s our core values that matter. So what kind of man do you want to be? What kind of husband? What kind of father? What kind of friend? What kind of member of your community? What does that look like to you? Are you living by your core values? At the end of the day, that’s your North Star. Everything else is just noise.

[mark clemson]

12 hours ago, Will am I said:

Is this just who I am as a person?

What else would it be? Your genetics, experiences, and POV/"philosophies"/intentions all add up to who you are. We all have to suppress urges of various kinds to get through life, whether it's at work, at home, on the freeway, in the grocery store parking lot, etc, etc. Some of these are a bigger deal than others in the "overall scheme" of our life, but nonetheless it's simply a fact that we all deal with.

As noted above, there is always a "ghost" life that you could have chosen to live but didn't. We all have that. If, for you, your loyalty to your family trumps other impulses there is (IMO) nothing wrong with that. It's simply the "choice" you've made. So, recognizing and making peace with your "unlived life" becomes an important step.

There might also be compromises, e.g. maybe you spend one weekend a month away in a cabin or similar. Plenty of people do stuff like this as well. There are all sorts of compromises that married couples make in recognition of the needs of their partner. I think the key is to have it be "enough" for you, while also being something your partner finds acceptable, which may be tricky for some folks. This way you can avoid feeling like you "missed out completely" on some things you found appealing.

You may also find, if you can find a non-disruptive way to give it a try, that solitude loses it's appeal after a while, dunno. IF you were TRULY a "on-their-own" type of person I suspect you'd have made different choices.

Edited September 12, 2022 by mark clemson